List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[snagbreac]

I could be wrong but I am still expecting another trade on Monday.

I'm expecting one for us to get back INTO the draft.

 

[jmac70]

think our club has an internal competition on to see if they can blow more first rounders then second. Hard to say which one is leading.

Lucky first rounders.

 

[magpies42]

I’m all for trading our future first to get into the first round this year. We have some top end talent in the 25+ age bracket and we need to rejuvenate the list as quickly as possible to ensure Moore, Maynard, Degoey, Grundy are still in their prime when we contend again.

 

[Harry O]

I’m all for trading our future first to get into the first round this year. We have some top end talent in the 25+ age bracket and we need to rejuvenate the list as quickly as possible to ensure Moore, Maynard, Degoey, Grundy are still in their prime when we contend again.

Too many queries over this draft group to do that
Just as likely to get guns in 20-50 range as earlier due to the lack of exposure

 

[manicpie]

Too many queries over this draft group to do that
Just as likely to get guns in 20-50 range as earlier due to the lack of exposure

Most of these kids have been looked at since under 12's, the top 30 are as good as any other year

 

[Copeland]

If there's a bid on Daicos before Darcy, what about the Dogs pick 23 if theres someone we are very keen on for next years secound and some change

 

[Harry O]

Most of these kids have been looked at since under 12's, the top 30 are as good as any other year

But who the top 30 really are is much more open to conjecture than other years.
I am keen to trade back in to this draft but our future first is untouchable

 

[Jen2310]

If there's a bid on Daicos before Darcy, what about the Dogs pick 23 if theres someone we are very keen on for next years secound and some change

Geelong favourite to get it given they have a few picks in the 30s they could give in exchange.


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[snagbreac]

Few important things to note about the upcoming draft.

North is taking JHF. I would find it surprising if anything else happened. Time to end discussion.
GWS is taking a player with their second selection. Currently, it's down to about four, although Callaghan would be the clear standout. If they took someone else, it would likely be a KPP.

We won't be getting Pick 23. "Clubs also expect an array of second-round picks to be traded across the two draft nights, with Geelong tipped to win the race for the Western Bulldogs’ first selection (Pick 23).The Cats, Magpies and Swans have all flagged their interest in the pick, knowing the Bulldogs have put the selection on the table in the hope of acquiring multiple later picks to help them match an inevitably early bid on father-son gun Darcy while, possibly, gaining more capital in next year’s draft." - Fox.

Available here: https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...a/news-story/200a5a7ad406cf4a5bb8736f725f1d09.

Which is why a trade into the first to secure Darcy Wilmot or another midfielder might happen.

Wrighty identified a midfielder, small forward and defender as positions of need.

If we want a future second, Essendon is open to ideas but probably wants something a bit more appetising than three toothpicks.

Anyone know about standard from other states? Seems to be a lot of coverage on VIC, some on SA and virtually nothing on the remainder.

 

[RobJD]

I’m all for trading our future first to get into the first round this year. We have some top end talent in the 25+ age bracket and we need to rejuvenate the list as quickly as possible to ensure Moore, Maynard, Degoey, Grundy are still in their prime when we contend again.

Act in haste and repent at leisure.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Sorry but why is trading our future 1st even in the conversation right now?

I’d happily look at it post matching for Daicos. I’d be thrilled if we could walk away from this years draft with Daicos and say 2 other top 20 selections.

 

[Horaceg]

No they won’t. They’ve come out and publicly declared that that they’re taking JHF at 1, they won’t go back on that, especially given the kids very public desire to get the number 1 crown this draft.

There’s also the cash he JHF won’t pocket

 

[manicpie]

But who the top 30 really are is much more open to conjecture than other years.
I am keen to trade back in to this draft but our future first is untouchable

It's not really, as I said, these guys have been top 30 for years. Talent Identification goes a lot deeper than what you think. If you think you are going to be able to get a few guns with our picks beyond 50 then you might be wrong. There will always be the odd good one but based on your theory, you say the top 30 is questionable , yet you think 30 plus going to be better, yeah, nah

 

[stormskye]

People are acting like all first rounders hold equal value. There is a significant difference in talent generally in the top 5 or first few picks of the draft. Talent drops off even between 5-10, and even more so after 10. So trading our pick next year (after doing it last year) for just another pick in the teens is the definition of insanity. I’m confident next years will be a bottom 5 pick. We are a long way of competing. Are there diamonds in the rough, of course, but top 5 picks you keep…

 

[snagbreac]

People are acting like all first rounders hold equal value. There is a significant difference in talent generally in the top 5 or first few picks of the draft. Talent drops off even between 5-10, and even more so after 10. So trading our pick next year (after doing it last year) for just another pick in the teens is the definition of insanity. I’m confident next years will be a bottom 5 pick. We are a long way of competing. Are there diamonds in the rough, of course, but top 5 picks you keep…

Say we assume 2022 pick is going to be between 5-8. If we get a median points value via two first rounders or a first and an early second, I'm for it. Not so sure who, though. Nearly every club wants an upgrade or they're committed to drafting a player. Carlton might? There's really no-one interested in sliding down the order. Maybe Melbourne at 20? Clubs want picks this year because they went light last year so it's finding that suitor. Perhaps St Kilda? It's too hard to tell.

 

[Mick F]

I’d happily look at it post matching for Daicos. I’d be thrilled if we could walk away from this years draft with Daicos and say 2 other top 20 selections.

Having the points for Daicos and turning pick 36 into two top 20 selections would be rather remarkable.

We are in the schitte BECAUSE we were relying on future draft picks and back ending contracts.

 

[Harry O]

It's not really, as I said, these guys have been top 30 for years. Talent Identification goes a lot deeper than what you think. If you think you are going to be able to get a few guns with our picks beyond 50 then you might be wrong. There will always be the odd good one but based on your theory, you say the top 30 is questionable , yet you think 30 plus going to be better, yeah, nah

Yes and No

Finn Callaghan was captain of the Vic schoolboys under 12 team
Then didn’t really get close to the Vic Metro under 16 team 2 years ago because he he had hardly grown.
he has probably grown 25cm since then and bulked up and now a likely top 3 pick
Bontompelli and Clayton Olliver were late picks at best 9 months before they were drafted
Some kids you know a long way out like Ponting or Daicos. Others not so much

 

[partypie]

No they won’t. They’ve come out and publicly declared that that they’re taking JHF at 1, they won’t go back on that, especially given the kids very public desire to get the number 1 crown this draft.

Don't be so sure - a 200 point deficit is enough to drop us down 2 spots in the order if we finish 15th or higher next year and they'd be well within their rights to change their mind in that situation.

It's more likely though that we'll have a draft day trade lined up using a future 3rd get the 201 points we'd need if North do bid on Daicos, and there'd be a "leak" to that effect that would make its way around the traps.

 

[snagbreac]

Don't be so sure - a 200 point deficit is enough to drop us down 2 spots in the order if we finish 15th or higher next year and they'd be well within their rights to change their mind in that situation.

It's more likely though that we'll have a draft day trade lined up using a future 3rd get the 201 points we'd need if North do bid on Daicos, and there'd be a "leak" to that effect that would make its way around the traps.

They won't. How many times? North have declared this publicly.

 

[Jen2310]

They won't. How many times? North have declared this publicly.

even told JHF they are selecting him at pick 1.

I don't think it's much clearer than that.

 

[Louie the Lipinski]

Having the points for Daicos and turning pick 36 into two top 20 selections would be rather remarkable.

We are in the schitte BECAUSE we were relying on future draft picks and back ending contracts.

In the schitte? What are you talking about? We're going win the flag.

 

[sr36]

Don't be so sure - a 200 point deficit is enough to drop us down 2 spots in the order if we finish 15th or higher next year and they'd be well within their rights to change their mind in that situation.

For it to benefit North, we'd have to finish behind them in 2022, with them finishing within one or two ladder spots from us, but it's most likely not going to benefit them at all, but will benefit some other team instead.

What's often missed in the argument that they should bid to hurt us, is that unless doing so helps them, it'll help other teams. So in effect you are going out of your way to hurt one club, but are most likely helping other teams.

 

[partypie]

For it to benefit North, we'd have to finish behind them in 2022, with them finishing within one or two ladder spots from us, but it's most likely not going to benefit them at all, but will benefit some other team instead.

What's often missed in the argument that they should bid to hurt us, is that unless doing so helps them, it'll help other teams. So in effect you are going out of your way to hurt one club, but are most likely helping other teams.

In general it doesn't matter where we finish, if you can put the boots into a team around the same level as you right now then you do it.

Is there anyone who doesn't think both teams will finish in the same part of the ladder next year (ie. bottom 6-8 at best)?

They won't. How many times? North have declared this publicly.

I was on this particular line of thinking a long time before you even showed up posting your unique brand of "analysis" for the record.

Having said that though if you can take another team out in the draft because they've left themselves exposed to a potential deficit then doing so is good business.

If you're going to quote me though at least pay attention to the last sentence, which was the most important bit.

...

It's more likely though that we'll have a draft day trade lined up using a future 3rd get the 201 points we'd need if North do bid on Daicos, and there'd be a "leak" to that effect that would make its way around the traps.

 

[sr36]

In general it doesn't matter where we finish, if you can put the boots into a team around the same level as you right now then you do it.

Having said that is there anyone who doesn't think both teams will finish in the same part of the ladder next year (ie. bottom 6)?

I think we'll be a bit higher than that.

But regardless, in this scenario, putting the boots into one team in the same part of the ladder, is extremely likely to give a leg up to a different team in the same part of the ladder. Unless North are relatively confident that team is going to be them (which they can't be). I don't see why they'd go out of their way to do it. All they'd be likely to do is shift a small advantage from one competitor to another competitor.

 

[Prexm]

I think we'll be a bit higher than that.

But regardless, in this scenario, putting the boots into one team in the same part of the ladder, is extremely likely to give a leg up to a different team in the same part of the ladder. Unless North are relatively confident that team is going to be them (which they can't be). I don't see why they'd go out of their way to do it. All they'd be likely to do is shift a small advantage from one competitor to another competitor.

Hine and Wright have said prepare for worse case scenario so a trade tomorrow is a big chance of happening. It will cost us a future 3rd for sure if it happens. Brisbane you would think would be interested