List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

[Scodog10]

I actually think Hopper is one to look out for.

Greene has really taken that inside bull role.

25 has shown a stack at the top level.

Hopper’s a good shout and his current role isn’t getting the best out of him I’d just be surprised if we aren’t a long way down the road with Taranto. That’s not to say we’ll get him out, but I think he’s the one we’re more likely to target.

 

[dardy33]

There seems to be a surplus of midst at gws which we could take advantage of 1 I was looking at which is a massive position of need was joel armarty of Sydney mobile key forward. Seems to be getting over McDonald this week though showed a bit last year can really move for a big fella

 

[sr36]

All we need to do is find more Treloars, sign them on over inflated contracts, dump them on another club and subsidise their salaries, wait a year, then wait to see who gets squeezed out of that teams 22…. So we can then pick up that player for a bargain.

800,000 for WHE?

 

[unplugged]

Taranto would be my #1 target too outside of a KPP, especially replacing Taylor Adams

3

Taylor Adams

Age

31

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

24.9

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

11.4

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

4.8

5star

CL

5.0

5star

D

20.4

5star

K

12.4

5star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

5.9

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

18.2

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.4

4star

T

3.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

down the track.

But given the noise coming out of the club recently I'd be surprised to see us chase a player that will cost us plenty at the trade table.

I'd guess our short-term strategy is bargain buys (Lipinski, Kreuger) or free agents.

I think we'd like to bring in elite talent via the draft but top up elsewhere whenever feasible to do so.

 

[cakewalk06]

All we need to do is find more Treloars, sign them on over inflated contracts, dump them on another club and subsidise their salaries, wait a year, then wait to see who gets squeezed out of that teams 22…. So we can then pick up that player for a bargain.

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment but it's simply not true that Treloar was on an overinflated contract. When he first signed it was something fairly reasonable for a gun mid in his prime years of about 650k a year for 5-6 years. It became overinflated because the money he should have been paid was kicked down the road. Averaged out it was always about the right money for Treloar. Regardless, looking at him for the Dogs early this season I am glad we are rebuilding. He is so fast with ball in hand and running towards goal, but seemingly so slow when running back the other way.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Taranto would be my #1 target too outside of a KPP, especially replacing Taylor Adams down the track.

But given the noise coming out of the club recently I'd be surprised to see us chase a player that will cost us plenty at the trade table.

I'd guess our short-term strategy is bargain buys (Lipinski, Kreuger) or free agents.

I think we'd like to bring in elite talent via the draft but top up elsewhere whenever feasible to do so.

We have a massive amount of unknowns this year.
So i'd expect us to be relatively quiet on the trade front this.

But that will depend on a few things...

History says that after year 1 of a new coach, the list usually gets cut fairly aggressively.
So depending on how we actually go, coupled with so many young players on the list, will ultimately decide what happens with this.

If we go ok and the kids show promise, the club may just back them in rather than trying to trade in players (better the devil you know in some instances).
Even if we do trade for players, unless something exceptional comes up, we'll go for the 22-24 age bracket starved of opportunities to balance the list age wise.

I'd prefer us to just chill this year, see what happens in the back half of the year (who is available) and decide that against our performance & growth of the younger players.

Will be an interesting watch, but ultimately we've hit the draft hard in the past 2 years with mid picks....so maybe this year is a quiet year, complete the re-balancing of the cap (get it below 100% would be ideal), take our picks to the draft (or improve our hand by trading with academy clubs) and then go hard next year.

 

[sr36]

We have a massive amount of unknowns this year.
So i'd expect us to be relatively quiet on the trade front this.

But that will depend on a few things...

History says that after year 1 of a new coach, the list usually gets cut fairly aggressively.
So depending on how we actually go, coupled with so many young players on the list, will ultimately decide what happens with this.

I don't think we'll be cutting aggressively. We did that over the last two years. It's now time for patience with the kids - a bit of cutting may happen there though.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

I don't think we'll be cutting aggressively. We did that over the last two years. It's now time for patience with the kids - a bit of cutting may happen there though.

FWIW i agree.
But like i said, historically new coaches won't make decisions when they just come in. They will wait a year and then make some calls (which makes sense).
I think our youth largely ties the coaches hands in this respect and we'll make minimal changes.

But if they decide its in complete 'start again' territory (which could be based on certain players being picked on previous coaches values)...then it could get ugly.

(hypothetical) if we have a shocking year from here and players just don't appear up to it or show growth, we may see 9+ leave the club (brown x2, kelly, madgen, Cox (retired), Chugg (rookie), Mccrae (harsh), Ruscoe, Bianco, trade WHE, Roughy (retired))

obviously this is an OOTT example!!

And it would severly imbalance the list and put us in years of pain......But if the coaches decide players arent up to it and the draft hand we have is good, they may go for the cut now rather than waiting another year to make the same call.

 

[Scodog10]

Taranto would be my #1 target too outside of a KPP, especially replacing Taylor Adams down the track.

But given the noise coming out of the club recently I'd be surprised to see us chase a player that will cost us plenty at the trade table.

I'd guess our short-term strategy is bargain buys (Lipinski, Kreuger) or free agents.

I think we'd like to bring in elite talent via the draft but top up elsewhere whenever feasible to do so.

That’s the big “but” on Taranto and why Hopper appeals more as a FA post 2023. TheVillageIdiot7 I think needing to go with an obviously OTT example is a good indicator that a more conservative approach is likely. Right now I’d only be on board with two of the changes you mentioned which is a long way from 9+.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment but it's simply not true that Treloar was on an overinflated contract. When he first signed it was something fairly reasonable for a gun mid in his prime years of about 650k a year for 5-6 years. It became overinflated because the money he should have been paid was kicked down the road. Averaged out it was always about the right money for Treloar. Regardless, looking at him for the Dogs early this season I am glad we are rebuilding. He is so fast with ball in hand and running towards goal, but seemingly so slow when running back the other way.

My post was rather tongue in cheek….pointing out the irony of Lipinski landing in our laps because our own salary cap incompetence forced him out of Bevos best 22.

No slight on Treloar was intended but that said we aren’t missing him.

( although I also note you basically said Treloars contract wasn’t overinflated but then it became overinflated…. Meaning you agree with me)

 

[cakewalk06]

My post was rather tongue in cheek….pointing out the irony of Lipinski landing in our laps because our own salary cap incompetence forced him out of Bevos best 22.

No slight on Treloar was intended but that said we aren’t missing him.

( although I also note you basically said Treloars contract wasn’t overinflated but then it became overinflated…. Meaning you agree with me)

yeah true. Mind you, Lipinski was not getting too much of a midfield go even before Treloar arrived at the Dogs. I guess being pushed down another rung, plus Dunkley not going to Essendon, was enough to convince him to have a look elsewhere. Could be good for us (I want to see a bigger sample size before I believe he's a gun).

 

[sr36]

(hypothetical) if we have a shocking year from here and players just don't appear up to it or show growth, we may see 9+ leave the club (brown x2, kelly, madgen, Cox (retired), Chugg (rookie), Mccrae (harsh), Ruscoe, Bianco, trade WHE, Roughy (retired))

Yeah, it's possible. I wouldn't be surprised with any of them as individuals, except WHE and Ruscoe. But like you said it's an OTT example. A couple of them will go probably go alright.

However, I think we are going to go pretty well this year and the decision will be more whether to load up and have a crack over the next two years whilst JDG, Adams, Crisp, Moore and Grundy are at their peaks with Howe, Pendles Sidey still around or whether to be more patient.

 

[frizzle]

Hopper’s a good shout and his current role isn’t getting the best out of him I’d just be surprised if we aren’t a long way down the road with Taranto. That’s not to say we’ll get him out, but I think he’s the one we’re more likely to target.

Either of those 2 would be a good inclusion to our midfield mix. Taranto's game is perhaps a little more rounded than Hopper's.

 

[RobJD]

Taranto would be my #1 target too outside of a KPP, especially replacing Taylor Adams down the track.

But given the noise coming out of the club recently I'd be surprised to see us chase a player that will cost us plenty at the trade table.

I'd guess our short-term strategy is bargain buys (Lipinski, Kreuger) or free agents.

I think we'd like to bring in elite talent via the draft but top up elsewhere whenever feasible to do so.

Taranto doesn't fit our need - put time into our young mid-fielders, use the draft to bolster the mid-field and save cap space to recruit an emerging/free agent KPF so that our developing mid-field will have someone to kick to who is capable of catching the footy and kicking goals

 

[Gabbo64]

A stupid question but what is OOTT or OTT

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

Yeah, it's possible. I wouldn't be surprised with any of them as individuals, except WHE and Ruscoe. But like you said it's an OTT example. A couple of them will go probably go alright.

However, I think we are going to go pretty well this year and the decision will be more whether to load up and have a crack over the next two years whilst JDG, Adams, Crisp, Moore and Grundy are at their peaks with Howe, Pendles Sidey still around or whether to be more patient.

It was OOTT (Overtly over the top!!!).

I agree we'll go better than expected and we'll end up with minimal changes this off season.
Unless something drops in our laps (or a player requests to leave), we'll look for cheap options to create the depth in early 20's age bracket.

regarding "loading up".....more often than not you need a squad of 30-35 to have a tilt.
Clubs mostly use a number of players in the mid/high 30's for the season....so we def need more depth.

So we're years away from that (unless we get super lucky with injuries).

My comments were more of being on the extreme end of the spectrum.....i think we'll be closer to the other end of it this year.
Load up next year when we have a better feeling of the younger players and can make more informed decisions on their trajectory.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

A stupid question but what is OOTT or OTT

Over the Top....

In other words.....crazy and not realistic !!!
(OOTT) was me being true to my name and accidentally adding a second O and not proofing it.....then trying to cover that mistake with "overtly" )

 

[Gabbo64]

Over the Top....

In other words.....crazy and not realistic !!!
(OOTT) was me being true to my name and accidentally adding a second O and not proofing it.....then trying to cover that mistake with "overtly" )

Cheers

 

[MooreTreloar]

A stupid question but what is OOTT or OTT

OTT is Over The Top.

Or so I believe.

 

[Quicky]

FWIW i agree.
But like i said, historically new coaches won't make decisions when they just come in. They will wait a year and then make some calls (which makes sense).
I think our youth largely ties the coaches hands in this respect and we'll make minimal changes.

But if they decide its in complete 'start again' territory (which could be based on certain players being picked on previous coaches values)...then it could get ugly.

(hypothetical) if we have a shocking year from here and players just don't appear up to it or show growth, we may see 9+ leave the club (brown x2, kelly, madgen, Cox (retired), Chugg (rookie), Mccrae (harsh), Ruscoe, Bianco, trade WHE, Roughy (retired))

obviously this is an OOTT example!!

And it would severly imbalance the list and put us in years of pain......But if the coaches decide players arent up to it and the draft hand we have is good, they may go for the cut now rather than waiting another year to make the same call.

The guys I think should be in trouble are Chugg, Murphy, Kelly and T. Brown. We've gotten a close enough look to know what they offer and it's not up to it. Watch and wait includes McMahon and Bianco (but suspect the club will have patience with Bianco). I'm not confident on either.

I think Madgen may be safe due to our list composition with Roughead closer to the end. Personally i'd shift Begg to defense which is his most likely long term position and mine AFL lists for the next Roughead/Dunn - and be done with it.

I think Callum Brown is a limited player but offers competent depth in midfield so i'd keep him. Ruscoe and Macrae are definitely safe for a bit longer.

 

[unplugged]

Taranto doesn't fit our need - put time into our young mid-fielders, use the draft to bolster the mid-field and save cap space to recruit an emerging/free agent KPF so that our developing mid-field will have someone to kick to who is capable of catching the footy and kicking goals

IMO we need an elite (A grade) big game player, inside mid with a big body. Taranto fits this mould.

History says you need a top 5 pick to get these sorts of guys.

 

[VinnieB]

I'd love to get the young Greene from GWS. I know it's impossible, but he has the makings of being one of the best midfielders in the game.

 

[sr36]

The guys I think should be in trouble are Chugg, Murphy, Kelly and T. Brown. We've gotten a close enough look to know what they offer and it's not up to it. Watch and wait includes McMahon and Bianco (but suspect the club will have patience with Bianco). I'm not confident on either.

I think Madgen may be safe due to our list composition with Roughead closer to the end. Personally i'd shift Begg to defense which is his most likely long term position and mine AFL lists for the next Roughead/Dunn - and be done with it.

I think Callum Brown is a limited player but offers competent depth in midfield so i'd keep him. Ruscoe and Macrae are definitely safe for a bit longer.

Have we seen enough of Chugg and Kelly to make a call? They've barely played. I certainly haven't seen enough anyway and seeing they've both been re-contracted, the club must've seen a bit.

 

[Quicky]

Have we seen enough of Chugg and Kelly to make a call? They've barely played. I certainly haven't seen enough anyway and seeing they've both been re-contracted, the club must've seen a bit.

Kelly and Chugg are contracted until the end of this year so if we want to delist them we can.

It's always fraught suggesting players to be delisted because its always heavily criticised.

Personally I don't think Kelly has shown anything to suggest he will make it forward or back.

Chugg hasn't played alot you're right. However when he has its very low production. I don't see the playing qualities to translate to AFL bar pace.

 

[sr36]

Kelly and Chugg are contracted until the end of this year so if we want to delist them we can.

It's always fraught suggesting players to be delisted because its always heavily criticised.

Personally I don't think Kelly has shown anything to suggest he will make it forward or back.

Chugg hasn't played alot you're right. However when he has its very low production. I don't see the playing qualities to translate to AFL bar pace.

In terms of re-contracted - I meant neither of them have actually played much footy since they were re-contracted/re-drafted due to injury and covid. So if they weren't crossed off when we contracted them, there doesn't seem much reason to do so now - may be by the end of the year though.