List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[PieBeast]

At your patronising best.

Nothing personal but thank you.

All shit aside, I'm really pissed of with Ash cause he had talent to burn.

And I'm not being a caveman saying he should simply get over few comments from derros, just implying there is a lot more to it at play than that.

 

[Bianconeri]

Then it's going to require a time machine to set him up for success

Back to 2022 when we moved the ball quicker.

 

[PieBeast]

But you're pretty macho. We can't expect everyone to be as tough as you.

you need to post less

 

[Bianconeri]

Sorry in advance for taking the bait. Can't help myself. I speak in generalties and pulling together what evidence I can find about Darcy

I cant absolutely say Darcy couldnt have got a cm or 2 after he reached the club but I would also argue the articles posted are not great proof he did. The classic guys who do gain cms at 18 yo are the Cripps or Callaghans who were squeaky voiced little boys when they were U16. They stood out because almost every other kid had grown by that stage and developed typical male seconday sexual characteristic to some degree. Cripps and Callaghan and were still little boys. Between 16 and 18 they grew around 20cm. The last few cm came in the first year they spent at the club. Cripps draft height was 190, went to 195 and Callaghan 189 , went to 192.

Darcy has no such story. I did a bit of a search of articles about him when he was younger. The photo I attached was from very early Jan 2013 article by Call Toomey. Darcy was 16 years old a few weeks before he turned 17. The photo I guess was pulled up from an event in 2012 unless Pete and Darce did NYE formally. The article says Darcy was 196cm and 85 kg and the photo shows a young man well on the way to being through puberty and having a young mans body who is already almost as tall as his 198 cm Dad (although Pete may have lost a cm by this age)


View attachment 2154926

Timeline odf measure I can find
2012 16 yo 196cm
2014 18 yo 199cm
2016 20 yo 201 cm Age article
2017+ 21+yo 203cm current height quote

The 1st 2 measures work. Darcy does most of his puberty height growth prior to the above photo. He gains another few cm in the next year or so as his growth spurt tails off, very typical. Callaghan and Cripps, our known late puberty kids put on their last few cm after draft day, not the usual but fits their picture perfectly as we know they are late starters. They are full height before they turn 20. Darc however gets to 20 years old, now being 201 cm, a 2cm gain in the 15 months since his draft date. Not impossible but doesnt fit that well. Then sometime in the next year or 2 he reaches 203 cm. Gaining height in your 20s when you were well through puberty when you were 16, nah.

So whats the more likely explanation. Any time we measure our height or weight its an estimate not an absolute measure. Whatever technique was used to measure Darcys height on the 4 occasions were all estimates. How much uniformity was there. Was it the same type of instrument or device. If it was the same type was it actually the same device each time. Was it done by the same person. If it was did that person use the same standardised technique of performing the measure every time etc etc etc. Even if all these are uniform, which is unlikely, its still an estimate not an absolute. There are lots of variable that will create a range of accuracy. in a 200cm measure a range between 199 and 203 is only +/- 1%. I think that would be well in the error range for this

The other factor to consider is a footy club has an incentive to go with the biggest height they get as a measure. "The Collingwood 6 footer" was coined for that very reason. As I said I cant say for sure but my bet is the different measure for Darcy was about the accuracy of the technique and the clubs incentive to publish the tallest measure they get.

As to the the growth spurt causing injuries that is idle speculation without basis. If there are any pains and difficulties with rapid growth in puberty and physical exertion they would come during the rapid growth. That occured for Darcy when he was 16 and younger. Even gaining 1 or 2 cm when you are 19 or 20 isnt going to cause any injury issues. Darcy would have just been told this by someone looking after him but it doesnt make sense and cant be proved one way or the other

Sorry, I really took a bite and this bait. Mainly did it to educate and annoy sideswipe

Is Darcy still growing?

Darcy Moore has discussed his role in the Collingwood team, and unexpected growth spurts at the age of 21.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

Darcy Moore seems to believe he had a growth spurt that caused injury problems.

Has he just been given the wrong advice?

 

[loki04]

No Oleg goodbye thread?

Hes not gone yet is he? Only a status change in list. Still can be selected in the team too.

 

[sr36]

you need to post less

You need to post less moronically.

 

[Gone Critical]

Is Darcy still growing?

Darcy Moore has discussed his role in the Collingwood team, and unexpected growth spurts at the age of 21.

www.collingwoodfc.com.au

Darcy Moore seems to believe he had a growth spurt that caused injury problems.

Has he just been given the wrong advice?

Ist thing is there is no way to test that individually. People look for answers and sometimes make connections that are not there.

We know his big growth spurt happened when he was 15 to 16 years old. He didnt have any significant growth in his 1st year at the club and even if he gained a cm or 2 there is no reason to think that contributed to injury. its just too small an amount.

 

[Scodog10]

I like some of the things he did when he spent time in the midfield. Also did some nice things down back, but my biggest memory is this great moment were he busted though a pack with great acceleration, dished it off, followed up with the handball recieve, then after his disposal stopped dead becaused the double effort left him absolutely cooked. Was pretty eye opening how far he still is off the fitness standard.

He’s 4 years in it’s not changing…

 

[Kirby]

That's nice dear.

But I'd take a LOT worse than some interwebs abuse that would enable me to get 350K a year while I play dead.

And by the way I'm not suggesting that's what Ash did, just taking the piss of the baseless narrative perpetuated on here as a given.

Wow, you really are the big man in town.

Did you just stink out your cave and came out for air?

 

[sideswipe]

Sorry in advance for taking the bait. Can't help myself. I speak in generalties and pulling together what evidence I can find about Darcy

I cant absolutely say Darcy couldnt have got a cm or 2 after he reached the club but I would also argue the articles posted are not great proof he did. The classic guys who do gain cms at 18 yo are the Cripps or Callaghans who were squeaky voiced little boys when they were U16. They stood out because almost every other kid had grown by that stage and developed typical male seconday sexual characteristic to some degree. Cripps and Callaghan and were still little boys. Between 16 and 18 they grew around 20cm. The last few cm came in the first year they spent at the club. Cripps draft height was 190, went to 195 and Callaghan 189 , went to 192.

Darcy has no such story. I did a bit of a search of articles about him when he was younger. The photo I attached was from very early Jan 2013 article by Call Toomey. Darcy was 16 years old a few weeks before he turned 17. The photo I guess was pulled up from an event in 2012 unless Pete and Darce did NYE formally. The article says Darcy was 196cm and 85 kg and the photo shows a young man well on the way to being through puberty and having a young mans body who is already almost as tall as his 198 cm Dad (although Pete may have lost a cm by this age)


View attachment 2154926

Timeline odf measure I can find
2012 16 yo 196cm
2014 18 yo 199cm
2016 20 yo 201 cm Age article
2017+ 21+yo 203cm current height quote

The 1st 2 measures work. Darcy does most of his puberty height growth prior to the above photo. He gains another few cm in the next year or so as his growth spurt tails off, very typical. Callaghan and Cripps, our known late puberty kids put on their last few cm after draft day, not the usual but fits their picture perfectly as we know they are late starters. They are full height before they turn 20. Darc however gets to 20 years old, now being 201 cm, a 2cm gain in the 15 months since his draft date. Not impossible but doesnt fit that well. Then sometime in the next year or 2 he reaches 203 cm. Gaining height in your 20s when you were well through puberty when you were 16, nah.

So whats the more likely explanation. Any time we measure our height or weight its an estimate not an absolute measure. Whatever technique was used to measure Darcys height on the 4 occasions were all estimates. How much uniformity was there. Was it the same type of instrument or device. If it was the same type was it actually the same device each time. Was it done by the same person. If it was did that person use the same standardised technique of performing the measure every time etc etc etc. Even if all these are uniform, which is unlikely, its still an estimate not an absolute. There are lots of variable that will create a range of accuracy. in a 200cm measure a range between 199 and 203 is only +/- 1%. I think that would be well in the error range for this

The other factor to consider is a footy club has an incentive to go with the biggest height they get as a measure. "The Collingwood 6 footer" was coined for that very reason. As I said I cant say for sure but my bet is the different measure for Darcy was about the accuracy of the technique and the clubs incentive to publish the tallest measure they get.

As to the the growth spurt causing injuries that is idle speculation without basis. If there are any pains and difficulties with rapid growth in puberty and physical exertion they would come during the rapid growth. That occured for Darcy when he was 16 and younger. Even gaining 1 or 2 cm when you are 19 or 20 isnt going to cause any injury issues. Darcy would have just been told this by someone looking after him but it doesnt make sense and cant be proved one way or the other

Sorry, I really took a bite and this bait. Mainly did it to educate and annoy sideswipe

The last time you educated me it was to reinforce the lesson to never expect much from family.

 

[No SPIN]

Second this. The “people called him names on social media” excuse is getting old. Yes, it was vile and shouldn’t have happened. But if you let that sort of thing take over you to the point where you can’t perform your job then you’ll never be a productive member of society.

Sounds harsh I know, but it’s a cut throat world.

I think the days of telling a player to effectively “get over it”, is remnant of a bygone era.
Mental health issues are now far more prevalent than that time, and need a far more nuanced approach.

 

[sideswipe]

He’s 4 years in it’s not changing…

I'm not confident, but there is still a chance he has some big improvement in him. Whilst not in the unraced 2yo category, he is still of an age where he can make some decent steps. But unlikely to be a massive difference.

 

[JuniorB]

I think the days of telling a player to effectively “get over it”, is remnant of a bygone era.
Mental health issues are now far more prevalent than that time, and need a far more nuanced approach.

The public scrutiny of players is far more intense these days, with the mental stress that goes with it.
I would think that there are many players that need help to cope.

 

[Rorzza]

Will he return to Collingwood!

 

[cakewalk06]

I'm not confident, but there is still a chance he has some big improvement in him. Whilst not in the unraced 2yo category, he is still of an age where he can make some decent steps. But unlikely to be a massive difference.

Maybe a 2yo that’s had a couple of starts at the provincials, started odds on and been turned over. Emergency in a few stakes races in town. Reef certainly has always looked the part and it’s hard to fathom his endurance is such an issue. I guess it’s a reminder that these elite afl guys are pretty special athletes.

 

[sideswipe]

Maybe a 2yo that’s had a couple of starts at the provincials, started odds on and been turned over. Emergency in a few stakes races in town. Reef certainly has always looked the part and it’s hard to fathom his endurance is such an issue. I guess it’s a reminder that these elite afl guys are pretty special athletes.

The thing about AFL footballers trying to overcome a physiological shortcoming - for Reef i think it is more about his ability to deliver repeat anaerobic efforts - is that it is bloody hard to address that shortcoming in season. They only really have the pre-season to have a real go at it, before they get into the cycle of play/rest/train.

It actually gives me a bit of confidence/faith that he still has a bit of scope up his sleeve.

 

[OniAu]

Second this. The “people called him names on social media” excuse is getting old. Yes, it was vile and shouldn’t have happened. But if you let that sort of thing take over you to the point where you can’t perform your job then you’ll never be a productive member of society.

Sounds harsh I know, but it’s a cut throat world.

i don't think thats an excuse. There wouldn't be anyone that can handle unwarranted criticism and vitriol well.

The criticism is an unwanted unchangeable part of any sports/celebrity's career. It shouldn't be considered part of the job. It doesnt make you less of a person if it impacts you though. I dont think that amounts to your worth on society by being impacted by it.

You are right he shouldn't let it get to him. He needs to somehow use it as an inspiration to make himself the best he can be. Not to prove them wrong , but to make his mindset better. At least if he doesn't make it , he can say he gave it a crack.

 

[manicpie]

Nothing personal but thank you.

All shit aside, I'm really pissed of with Ash cause he had talent to burn.

And I'm not being a caveman saying he should simply get over few comments from derros, just implying there is a lot more to it at play than that.

Tell us what it is if you know more, otherwise you're just a frustrated vape consultant who is looking for attention. Enlighten us mere mortals

 

[ZEV]

Are there many teams who would be fine without their captain? Excluding the bottom 4, I can only think of Geelong (now that he's old), Sydney and maybe Port Adelaide.

StKilda, wasn't even sure who there captain was tbh.

 

[Apex36]

What about if we take two at the draft, leave a vacancy on the senior list, then if we want an SSP we promote a rookie then?


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

You need to take a minimum 3 selections at the draft.

 

[Jen2310]

You need to take a minimum 3 selections at the draft.

Technically you could take 2 and upgrade a rookie, but doesn't feel we'll go down that road. We did that the last two years. Feels like it defeats the purpose of delisting and rooking markov and johnson. The fact we have three very close selections rather than far apart I do feel we'll take the three.

 

[sideswipe]

You need to take a minimum 3 selections at the draft.

I'm not sure that's correct? Can you point to the rule? This article(not that I would rely on it) suggests otherwise?

How many picks your club is set to use at the 2024 AFL Draft

Between 61 and 70 picks are anticipated at this year's AFL Draft

www.afl.com.au

"Adelaide, which holds pick No.4, and Hawthorn, are set to use two selections – the fewest of clubs – while Gold Coast is also expected to take two or three players at the draft."

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Technically you could take 2 and upgrade a rookie, but doesn't feel we'll go down that road. We did that the last two years. Feels like it defeats the purpose of delisting and rooking markov and johnson. The fact we have three very close selections rather than far apart I do feel we'll take the three.

Good point.

Given we’re already downgrading two to the rookie list I can’t see why they’d turn around and upgrade one. That would just be moving the deck chairs?

 

[manicpie]

StKilda, wasn't even sure who there captain was tbh.

Who is their captain?

 

[Apex36]

I think the days of telling a player to effectively “get over it”, is remnant of a bygone era.
Mental health issues are now far more prevalent than that time, and need a far more nuanced approach.

Is there any actual evidence or has Ash come out and said he was suffering from mental health issues, or is this a fantasy scenario that big footy posters have come up with in order to provide an excuse for his shithouse performances?