List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[satanshoof101]

Hawthorn’s actions created more list spaces and AFL-level opportunities to accelerate the development of youngsters who are now blossoming. We should follow the same approach before too many of our old brigade become list-cloggers.


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Agree with this, I don't see us winning the whole thing next year, why delay the inevitable? Happy to be proven wrong but personally don't see where our growth comes from where it shoots us back in to top 4 next year.

 

[PIE-BOI]

Would be nice if this time instead of losing our young upcoming stars to their childhood supporting clubs, we can nab 1 or 2 good quality players who grew up supporting the Pies who are out of contract for average picks like we got for Ollie and Ginni.

Surely there's some out there that would love to come to us and just nominate only us as club of choice when it comes to a trade.

 

[SwanBet]

For the sake of fostering discussion

1.
What picks are you using? Our first rounder? Our 2nd that is sliding back further bc of pick swap? A bevy of 3rd and 4ths?
Or mortgaging our future again by trading F1s?

2.
Every club’s midfield is fine when it’s healthy- in a long season, this is v rarely the case. That’s why we need quality mid depth. (But don’t have)

3.
I agree but this is at odds to point 1.
How do we bring in Keane / other without surrendering picks? And how high do those picks need to be?
FA/UFA? It’s not happening in 2024.

Btw, I still have hope for Ryan - but I’m not sure he’s hbf.

4.
We need to but our past trading regime and the picks choices we made make this difficult at this point.

Fair points.

1.
I assume you are talking about what picks we are taking to the draft? I wouldn't be touching our F1... We currently have 26, 44, 51, 87, Obviously a terrible hand. Realistically, we aren't going to move the needle by improving that hand besides some trading to improve the points hand of another club.

My point around drafting was I feel we need to go for younger players out of the draft and not recycled role players that have been delisted by other clubs that are going to play VFL. I would rather us take a risk on an unproven prospect that could have higher upside given our need for young talent. I think there is merit to these types of selections but we have 6-8 guys like this on our list now.

2.
It was fine for us last year, wasn't it? Of course you would like more depth... everyone would. But there aren't any 'quality midfielders' playing VFL that would move to us to play VFL.

I think the main problem with our side is that we don't have periphery players that can move into and play full time midfield minutes when an injury occurs. Most sides have a full time forward that can step in and play midfield, we just don't have that. We had that with a player like Taylor Adams last season, but it didn't seem to be an option for us this season.

Maybe Beau can be that player for us moving forward? But if we had have had one of Jordy or Tom Mitchell fit this season, this midfield mix would have been a lot better and you wouldn't have seen guys like Long playing full games in the midfield.

3.
Again, my first point was more about not bringing in list cloggers. You can still bring a player in without cannibalising your draft hand. for me it's just the FR1 that is off the table. You can bring in Keane for a F2 IMO.

4.
Yes, agree. This is more of a hope that players like Ed Allan improve and go past someone like Sidebottom next year.

 

[Ugene41]

Would be nice if this time instead of losing our young upcoming stars to their childhood supporting clubs, we can nab 1 or 2 good quality players who grew up supporting the Pies who are out of contract for average picks like we got for Ollie and Ginni.

Surely there's some out there that would love to come to us and just nominate only us as club of choice when it comes to a trade.

Yes more Bobby Hill style trades please.

 

[unplugged]

I dare say Markov might be unlucky come delisitng time. Johnson, Begg as well. With two retirements so far, Carry and Murph, that's 5 changes. The club may go harder or trade out some players for picks, but I can't see teams knocking our door down for anyone on the outer in particular. Maybe Reef.
I could just be pessemistic, but I'm preparing myself.

Markov has a contract for 2025...

 

[What is a cakewalk]

The VFL needs an overhaul, a bye every 3rd week is stupid.

100%. Between the sub rule, carryover players and constant vfl byes it feels like the fringe players just miss so much opportunity to play a full game.

 

[TradeDraft]

Lack of Currency I can’t see us doing much this Player Movement Period and no high Draft Picks

 

[Ugene41]

Hawthorn’s actions created more list spaces and AFL-level opportunities to accelerate the development of youngsters who are now blossoming. We should follow the same approach before too many of our old brigade become list-cloggers.


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Disagree. Hawthorn started improving this year after trading back in experience including 32 year old Gunston, Chol and continuing to keep 33 year old Breust around for leadership and experience.

What we need to do is stop with list clogging SSP/delisted MSD types and actually develop the young talent we have on our list like the Reefs/Allan/Harrison's/Richards/Demattia etc

 

[satanshoof101]

Disagree. Hawthorn started improving this year after trading back in experience including 32 year old Gunston, Chol and continuing to keep 33 year old Breust around for leadership and experience.

What we need to do is stop with list clogging SSP/delisted MSD types and actually develop the young talent we have on our list like the Reefs/Allan/Harrison's/Richards/Demattia etc

Which AFL teams enter the 2024 season with the oldest and youngest lists?

See where your club ranks in age and experience this year👇

www.zerohanger.com

We are the oldest and most experienced list

Hawthorn's list is 2nd youngest list + 3rd most inexperienced including players you mentioned

Not saying get rid of everyone under the age of 23 but agree we do really need our kids to come along

 

[MooreDaicos]

Didn't Schultz play in the midfield at times, at Freo? Anyone know if he was any good? I'm sure I remember something positive from a commentator.

 

[Hardas]

Yuk.

Whatever's stronger than 'yuk'...

 

[Exambolor]

Flick on the Suns game and we can get a good look at Davies and how he plays

 

[Hardas]

A: It's a bad year to be wishing for UFA's, given the salary cap boosts going on.

B: Hoping there's some decent tall options to choose from at our first pick - seems like there actually could be this year. (If this comes to pass & Dekka takes a flanker, let me know which bridge we're all jumping from).

C: Scour Vic lads at interstate clubs for better depth options for athletic mids & wings - look at player swaps if they fancy any of ours (WTF happened with Poulter?).

D: Hope the longer rest & better luck with injuries gives us one last glorious dead cat bounce to glory before the Daicos-McGuane era begins.

E: What do people think of getting Alan Richardson back in Wrighty's role & whoever he chooses as head of recruiting?

 

[No SPIN]

A: It's a bad year to be wishing for UFA's, given the salary cap boosts going on.

B: Hoping there's some decent tall options to choose from at our first pick - seems like there actually could be this year. (If this comes to pass & Dekka takes a flanker, let me know which bridge we're all jumping from).

C: Scour Vic lads at interstate clubs for better depth options for athletic mids & wings - look at player swaps if they fancy any of ours (WTF happened with Poulter?).

D: Hope the longer rest & better luck with injuries gives us one last glorious dead cat bounce to glory before the Daicos-McGuane era begins.

E: What do people think of getting Alan Richardson back in Wrighty's role & whoever he chooses as head of recruiting?

Why Richardson specifically?

 

[whiskeytown]

No and no. If they aren’t good enough for to make those teams I’d rather play our kids.

Do you realise that there is a gulf between senior players and 23 and under at Collingwood?

Nick Daicos excepted.. the others like Allan, Di mattia, TJ, Smit etc will take time

In the meantime it’s better spending pick 48 on Fiorini than sone kid who never plays more than 2 games

 

[Hardas]

Why Richardson specifically?

Well seasoned & respected operator. Experience in player development a real plus for our next period.

 

[Bramax]

Yes - a freakishly unlucky injury - but he also did a calf in pre-season and was out twice during the season with hammy tears.


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I think we brought him back a week early after his hammy.

 

[No SPIN]

Well seasoned & respected operator. Experience in player development a real plus for our next period.

Turmoil among players at Melb off field, a Coach who needed chaperoning in Vegas, mediocre on field performances during his tenure.
That’s hardly an impressive CV.

 

[stormskye]

Do you realise that there is a gulf between senior players and 23 and under at Collingwood?

Nick Daicos excepted.. the others like Allan, Di mattia, TJ, Smit etc will take time

In the meantime it’s better spending pick 48 on Fiorini than sone kid who never plays more than 2 games

Cameron is a perfect example of this.

 

[Hardas]

Turmoil among players at Melb off field, a Coach who needed chaperoning in Vegas, mediocre on field performances during his tenure.
That’s hardly an impressive CV.

Don't see how he gets the blame for the coach & some players losing the plot, but hey, if you want to argue the toss on it I'm sure someone will.

 

[swoop42]

With the Harrison injury the use of Richards as any form of trade currency might need to be wound back (if it even exists).

Of course he may have other ideas as he's uncontracted beyond this season.

In reality unless he could garner us a late 2nd round pick or be part of a player swap in an area of greater need I'd rather just keep him.

 

[SwanBet]

Disagree. Hawthorn started improving this year after trading back in experience including 32 year old Gunston, Chol and continuing to keep 33 year old Breust around for leadership and experience.

What we need to do is stop with list clogging SSP/delisted MSD types and actually develop the young talent we have on our list like the Reefs/Allan/Harrison's/Richards/Demattia etc

This last part is spot on.

The Markov pick up worked last year but we went over board with these mature recruits in the last off season.

Perhaps it shows a lack of belief in our younger talent, but would we have been worse off seeing Macrae, Allan and Reef get sustained runs in the side that have been shown to Sullivan, Long and Bytel this year?

Hindsight yes, but I believe we missed the mark where we could have made more speculative selections with higher upside and also give more experience to the younger developing players already on the list.

 

[loki04]

Disagree. Hawthorn started improving this year after trading back in experience including 32 year old Gunston, Chol and continuing to keep 33 year old Breust around for leadership and experience.

What we need to do is stop with list clogging SSP/delisted MSD types and actually develop the young talent we have on our list like the Reefs/Allan/Harrison's/Richards/Demattia etc

But they aren’t trading out Future firsts to make it happen.

They gets vets in on the cheap.

 

[HFF]

We need to find players that will fit into our system and be in the top 25ish players consistently for selection.

That’s effectively what we did post 2022
The acquisitions of Hill, McStay, Mitchell and Frampton gave us exactly that and all of them didn’t cost us anything beyond a second round pick that was deep in the 40s really as a collective.

This is the space we need to operate in this off season again.

 

[stormskye]

But they aren’t trading out Future firsts to make it happen.

They gets vets in on the cheap.

They are spending their top 10 picks on blokes soon to be delisted. They aren’t perfect either. No club is