List Mgmt. Our Trade/FA, Suburban & Country Town Thread

[No SPIN]

Aside from a generally owed duty of care, clubs have OHS obligations on match day. This is in the CBA.
There are also medical standards that apply under the CBA that spell out the fiduciary nature of the club doctor’s relationship with the player and specific things they need to do.
It was obvious to the naked eye at the game (which I was) that he was not ok to play and he went back on for 20 minutes, with a jab from a doctor at quarter time( in the context of his injury my doctor relative says this will have made things more dangerous). Collingwood players were avoiding tackling him and were checking on him on field, encouraging him to go off. This was reported in the newspaper. Why did no one in that 20 minute period intervene from MFC? It is damning that these Pies players spoke with him (not to mention there is TV footage) and easy evidence to put forward that they owed a duty of care and breached it.

I’m no doctor but have worked in healthcare law and negligence claims for 2 decades. I am sure MFC and the doctor would have notified the insurers on this one.

If he had died, as was possible as reported by Christian, MFC who employ the doctor and the doctor could not only face a medical negligence claim. Directors would have to answer. This is way more serious than a disgruntled player wanting to help their brand and they would do best to let him move on.

It is a pretty easy legal claim to make out, and it would be a clear breach of the player contract allowing him to terminate it. I cannot see how a player can be expected to stay with a club who nearly killed them through negligence. Especially, when they showed a lack of care since and player welfare issues abound with the other issues that are already public. Again, what is the MFC Board doing?

There is a series of steps a player can go through under the CBA with timeframes to address a grievance (weeks not months). It starts at club level, escalates to the AFL and AFLPA and ends in a grievance tribunal that can make orders . You can still make a negligence claim in court which would take longer to resolve, even if you start the CBA process. The fact that the AFL says they ticked off what happened on the day puts them in the frame too. I suspect a good lawyer could run a truck through whatever internal “investigation” happened (if it’s anything like the umpiring reviews!). The AFL could then seek to point the finger back at Melbourne and say they relied upon MFC’s representations. No doubt, they would try and distance themselves given the gravity of the potential outcome.

Why would Christian talk about the Petracca brand? You would encourage a player to do so if you’re thinking about a future negligence claim as it impacts the economic loss component of compensation. I think his partner is a lawyer, so would know that any damages would include calculating $$ impact on all of his career interests. It would be part of discussions with the club to pressure them to facilitate a trade and avoid a potentially expensive and reputationally damaging claim.

On a human level, Christian has been at pains to say that his trauma was not just to him but his family. His parter who received a 3am call from the surgeon saying he may not make it would be distressed as well. It is clear that any decisions about his future at MFC take his family’s views into account. They are the ones who count in his eyes.

If I were his mother or partner, I would not want my son or husband to be in an unsafe environment like this ever again. I would not trust the club to have his welfare at heart. The family would quite understandably be asking him to move clubs and never go back. You would want him safe. He also has PTSD so a fresh start may be beneficial psychologically.

As Collingwood players demonstrated care for his welfare on the day and in the weeks that followed, I am unsurprised that it is where he, his family and his partner would want to be (aside from his Dad’s connection and his relationship with some of the players). Having a sense of “life is short”, may also mean he would rather live out his boyhood dream and play for Collingwood. I saw him say he watched Pendles 400th and he wanted to go there and be the one to carry him off. It was quite touching.

Clearly, the whole Melbourne club has some serious and long term issues in player welfare beyond this incident for which they have failed to take accountability to date. No doubt any lawyer would tell his management to raise those long term issues if the objective is to exit. I recall that there was a doctor who made legal claims against MFC about the coach pressuring him not to rest Brayshaw when he had concussion in 2020.this was again reported in the Herald Sun.

If I were Collingwood, I would lay low until his management and lawyers get agreement from MFC to agree to an exit first as Petracca holds a lot of cards here. If the negligence is bad enough, he may able to simply walk away. The AFL would have a terrible precedent set so it is everyone’s interests to reach a deal.

I cannot see Petracca staying there and he and his family would be determined to get to the Pies in the circumstances.

It will get messy in the short term but they will have to let him go on his terms. Paddy Ryder got to Port by threatening Essendon with the grievance process with the same management group.

It will be in the AFL’s interests to find a solution.

Once they agree to trade him out, only then should he nominate Collingwood.

This situation is unique. I believe it gets done in the end.


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Completely agree - the idea that this is just another unhappy player wanting to change clubs, and events will play out accordingly is the height of absurdity.
We are charting new waters here and the outcome and resolution could be very surprising,

It will be interesting to see how sideswipe responds to your post.

 

[sideswipe]

Nothing is "for nothing". Stringer would cost $ and he already has a team to play for next year. Essendon aren't booting him out, their position is that he must prove himself worthy of further games in '26. Collingwood have to offer him more than that.

He has never looked fit and has had problems.

If the club has learned from past mistakes (Beams) they'd be rightfully wary of bringing a player with Stringer's history into their environment.

Stringer is a good finisher but might not be a great addition to a team that thrives on defensive pressure in the forward line.

Good finisher - in front of goals and at the dinner table. Although I would bet Jakey is more of a meal in front of the Tv kinda guy.

There’s a special place in hell for professional athletes who can’t manage their weight.

I hate those fat tnucs more than Illinois Nazis.


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[No SPIN]

If you can't work out the differences in Lynch and Stringer and what they bring to a team and if you want to compare them side by side, well, go right ahead.

If given the choice I’d take Stringer because at a minimum, swapping with JDG mid and fwd I think offers more scoring power and game day flexibility, than Lynch alone.

 

[jathanas]

Good finisher - in front of goals and at the dinner table. Although I would bet Jakey is more of a meal in front of the Tv kinda guy.

There’s a special place in hell for professional athletes who can’t manage their weight.

I hate those fat tnucs more than Illinois Nazis.


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A professional athlete has 1 job: "Don't be a fat c*".

 

[sideswipe]

Completely agree - the idea that this is just another unhappy player wanting to change clubs, and events will play out accordingly is the height of absurdity.
We are charting new waters here and the outcome and resolution could be very surprising,

It will be interesting to see how sideswipe responds to your post.

Already have. Hope you got interested.

That post got nowhere near to laying out the elements required for Petracca to mount a successful negligence claim.



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[No SPIN]

Rather than all that, why not give a few lines on how a negligence claim gets up on the current facts at hand. You can’t use “if”.


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You’re acting as if the all the facts have been made public which is completely disingenuous.
I think your response to this informative and comprehensive post doesn’t help your credibility as a legal professional.

 

[No SPIN]

Already have. Hope you got interested.

That post got nowhere near to laying out the elements required for Petracca to mount a successful negligence claim.



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Your reliance on “ no case with what we know”, is just naive - there is no way all the facts have been publicly disclosed.

 

[gerryg400]

Your reliance on “ no case with what we know”, is just naive - there is no way all the facts have been publicly disclosed.

What pertinent undisclosed facts might there be that would allow him to tear up his contract? It seems that he feels neglected but I don’t think that’s enough.

 

[jmac70]

A professional athlete has 1 job: "Don't be a fat c*".

Unless you are a sumo wrestler

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Aside from a generally owed duty of care, clubs have OHS obligations on match day. This is in the CBA.
There are also medical standards that apply under the CBA that spell out the fiduciary nature of the club doctor’s relationship with the player and specific things they need to do.
It was obvious to the naked eye at the game (which I was) that he was not ok to play and he went back on for 20 minutes, with a jab from a doctor at quarter time( in the context of his injury my doctor relative says this will have made things more dangerous). Collingwood players were avoiding tackling him and were checking on him on field, encouraging him to go off. This was reported in the newspaper. Why did no one in that 20 minute period intervene from MFC? It is damning that these Pies players spoke with him (not to mention there is TV footage) and easy evidence to put forward that they owed a duty of care and breached it.

I’m no doctor but have worked in healthcare law and negligence claims for 2 decades. I am sure MFC and the doctor would have notified the insurers on this one.

If he had died, as was possible as reported by Christian, MFC who employ the doctor and the doctor could not only face a medical negligence claim. Directors would have to answer. This is way more serious than a disgruntled player wanting to help their brand and they would do best to let him move on.

It is a pretty easy legal claim to make out, and it would be a clear breach of the player contract allowing him to terminate it. I cannot see how a player can be expected to stay with a club who nearly killed them through negligence. Especially, when they showed a lack of care since and player welfare issues abound with the other issues that are already public. Again, what is the MFC Board doing?

There is a series of steps a player can go through under the CBA with timeframes to address a grievance (weeks not months). It starts at club level, escalates to the AFL and AFLPA and ends in a grievance tribunal that can make orders . You can still make a negligence claim in court which would take longer to resolve, even if you start the CBA process. The fact that the AFL says they ticked off what happened on the day puts them in the frame too. I suspect a good lawyer could run a truck through whatever internal “investigation” happened (if it’s anything like the umpiring reviews!). The AFL could then seek to point the finger back at Melbourne and say they relied upon MFC’s representations. No doubt, they would try and distance themselves given the gravity of the potential outcome.

Why would Christian talk about the Petracca brand? You would encourage a player to do so if you’re thinking about a future negligence claim as it impacts the economic loss component of compensation. I think his partner is a lawyer, so would know that any damages would include calculating $$ impact on all of his career interests. It would be part of discussions with the club to pressure them to facilitate a trade and avoid a potentially expensive and reputationally damaging claim.

On a human level, Christian has been at pains to say that his trauma was not just to him but his family. His parter who received a 3am call from the surgeon saying he may not make it would be distressed as well. It is clear that any decisions about his future at MFC take his family’s views into account. They are the ones who count in his eyes.

If I were his mother or partner, I would not want my son or husband to be in an unsafe environment like this ever again. I would not trust the club to have his welfare at heart. The family would quite understandably be asking him to move clubs and never go back. You would want him safe. He also has PTSD so a fresh start may be beneficial psychologically.

As Collingwood players demonstrated care for his welfare on the day and in the weeks that followed, I am unsurprised that it is where he, his family and his partner would want to be (aside from his Dad’s connection and his relationship with some of the players). Having a sense of “life is short”, may also mean he would rather live out his boyhood dream and play for Collingwood. I saw him say he watched Pendles 400th and he wanted to go there and be the one to carry him off. It was quite touching.

Clearly, the whole Melbourne club has some serious and long term issues in player welfare beyond this incident for which they have failed to take accountability to date. No doubt any lawyer would tell his management to raise those long term issues if the objective is to exit. I recall that there was a doctor who made legal claims against MFC about the coach pressuring him not to rest Brayshaw when he had concussion in 2020.this was again reported in the Herald Sun.

If I were Collingwood, I would lay low until his management and lawyers get agreement from MFC to agree to an exit first as Petracca holds a lot of cards here. If the negligence is bad enough, he may able to simply walk away. The AFL would have a terrible precedent set so it is everyone’s interests to reach a deal.

I cannot see Petracca staying there and he and his family would be determined to get to the Pies in the circumstances.

It will get messy in the short term but they will have to let him go on his terms. Paddy Ryder got to Port by threatening Essendon with the grievance process with the same management group.

It will be in the AFL’s interests to find a solution.

Once they agree to trade him out, only then should he nominate Collingwood.

This situation is unique. I believe it gets done in the end.


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Has Petracca expressed any dissatisfaction with his treatment by the club doctors? Is there any indication that they did not follow the correct protocols given the diagnostic tools and knowledge available at the time and previous experiences with rib injuries?

 

[jathanas]

Unless you are a sumo wrestler

 

[partypie]

Peatling is a 24yo midfielder who just had a career year where he averaged 14 disposals a game.

Davies is a 22yo depth player for GC who averages 15 disposals a game.

I'm not real excited by those two.

I think I'd at least have a look at a 22 year old big 193cm / 89 kg midfielder who can run and has just averaged 15 touches, 3.4 clearances and 7 tackles (from 58% TOG) in the season just gone despite not really getting any consistent run of games - especially when they will cost nothing to get across.

 

[gerryg400]

A professional athlete has 1 job: "Don't be a fat c*".

That’s 2 jobs. And the 2nd one cannot be fixed.

 

[well left]

I hate those fat tnucs more than Illinois Nazis.


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That reference just made my Saturday morning.

Thank you Sir!


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[Queenie Hearts]

Give it a rest. I was asking a specific question about a specific matter - the negligence claim angle - rather that all the other points raised in that post.


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I said “if” because we can only know what we saw and what is reported and I am not a doctor. I am not giving a formal legal advice - just sharing my thoughts on a footy forum watching this unfold from a distance.

I think a medical negligence claim is arguable and enough to get you out of the contract from what I can see.

Why?

The club and the doctor clearly owe him a duty of care. This is not only the law but specified in the the CBA.

For a doctor , this means that the doctor has a duty to provide medical care and carry out procedures with a reasonable level of competence and diligence.

Was there a reasonable level of competence and diligence?
My Dad is a doctor and says that it is a big miss to send someone back out there with a lacerated spleen and collapsed lung. He tells me a stethoscope check should have alerted the doctor to the possibility of a collapsed lung and he should have been sent to hospital at the quarter time break in any case. We also don’t know if he was given any warning about the risks of a shot in the context of internal injury or warned about risks of contact injury going back on the field
with internal injury. I am told pain injections and contact sport are contraindications for a collapsed lung and a significant risk.

Even if you gave the doctor the benefit of the doubt at the quarter time break, Petracca was clearly very unwell (white and doubled over in pain, clearly visible on the TV monitor the doctor can see). The duty of care continued during 20 minutes on field time and indeed they should have been keeping a very close eye on him. Was it reasonable to leave him out there? I would think not- certainly the Collingwood players did not think so.

Much has been made of him wanting to go back on. He clearly did not understand the gravity of the situation and the club and the doctor needed to intervene regardless. Every doctor knows this, especially in sport. Every concussion victim now in a class action wanted to go back on. They still have a claim.

Did he suffer harm as a result of the breach of duty ? This is the part where a medical professional needs to advise on the specifics. His injury is primarily caused by Darcy Moore’s knee but he appears to be indicating that at least his near death, pain and suffering and psychological trauma was caused by the club/ club doctor. Did he do more damage to his injury running around for 20 minutes in a contact sport ? Probably, especially if a collapsed lung could have been detected and he was told he was okay to go back on with pain relief. The fact these are contraindications is important as a competent doctor should know that. Under the CBA March day doctors are required to undertake emergency medical training on a regular basis.

There are a lot of questions. What was the impact of the delay in treatment? Did the doctor examine him properly? What medication did they give him to get him back on? Was there pressure applied by the coach?

Something has gone terribly wrong. The details are unclear but my sense is that more than one thing went horribly wrong and it ended up risking his life.

It is hard to know precisely but it does not look good and at a minimum is messy and very damaging for the doctor, the club and the AFL.

On the cursory information to hand, I think a negligence claim would be successful. His clear distress on national TV is certainly helpful.

Stuff ups happen all the time in healthcare which is why professional indemnity insurance is so expensive.

The President’s interview on SEN yesterday made me doubly suspicious that they are worried about this at Board level . She did not want to commit to knowing anything at all and appeared to be distancing herself as an instinct. It made her sound cold and uncaring but may have been a director indicating she was not on notice and trying to avoid personal liability.

Just a thought.

I am not here to give definitive advice, of course. I wanted to share my thoughts to try and see it through Petracca’s eyes and those of his family. There is a way out if he is determined to take it.


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[NMBB]

......I am not here to give definitive advice, of course. I wanted to share my thoughts to try and see it through Petracca’s eyes and those of his family. There is a way out if he is determined to take it.

Out of Gate 6 across the park, cross Swan St (look both ways) and into Pie HQ

 

[NMBB]

What pertinent undisclosed facts might there be that would allow him to tear up his contract? It seems that he feels neglected but I don’t think that’s enough.

Feeling neglected hasn't yet made it into the legal texts as grounds to repudiate a contract.

However, being AFL territory, anything is possible.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Has Petracca expressed any dissatisfaction with his treatment by the club doctors? Is there any indication that they did not follow the correct protocols given the diagnostic tools and knowledge available at the time and previous experiences with rib injuries?

I'm going to take a wild guess, given that he nearly died, Petracca and his family might feel that allowing him to go back on the field put him at significant risk and exacerbated his condition.
Following protocols does not some how magically exempt you from negligence actions.
In the absence of diagnostic tools, a medical professional would be expected to err firmly on the side of caution when making a judgement call such as this.

If the doctor didn't have sufficient knowledge or experience with rib injuries then that would indicate negligence would it not?

 

[Queenie Hearts]

Already have. Hope you got interested.

That post got nowhere near to laying out the elements required for Petracca to mount a successful negligence claim.



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I have answered this. You would need more facts to hand to be definitive but it is arguable, in my view, at face value, based upon what doctors tell me about this type of injury. My radar went up even more after the President’s “I know nothing” train wreck of an interview yesterday.

As you would know a key element in court would be proving causation. How much of his harm is caused by the negligence of the doctor and club when Darcy’s knee is a culprit?

We are all looking from a distance so hard to say.

My point is more that nobody will want this argument held in public. It may only need to be arguable at this stage to get a deal done.



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[jmac70]

 

[Scritchyscroony]

Rather than all that, why not give a few lines on how a negligence claim gets up on the current facts at hand. You can’t use “if”.


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Any chance you could outline for us plebs what elements of a successful negligence action would be missing or unlikely to succeed?

 

[Fat Jesus]

Agree. I'm hoping since he was reportedly told to explore his options elsewhere, that's all he was doing if he met up with Fly.

Fly's such a good bloke, he'd probably say sure, attend, listen & politely say 'thx but no thx'

Fly would have been saying "I'd like you to come to us, but we need to get you fitter" "I believe in you"

It takes some blokes a little longer to grow up. I don't dislike him.
Jake is the sort of guy that needs someone like Fly to guide him.

 

[Jen2310]

Fly would have been saying "I'd like you to come to us, but we need to get you fitter" "I believe in you"

It takes some blokes a little longer to grow up. I don't dislike him.
Jake is the sort of guy that needs someone like Fly to guide him.

If he hasnt grown up when he is nearly 31, I'd be worried. He's more near the end of his career than the start.

Also.. We would need to trade for him, and i'd rather not.

 

[Fat Jesus]

Fairytale is people convincing themselves a 30 year old Jake Stringer is the answer to our problems. He ain't.

I don't need convincing mate. Stringer can play.

 

[sideswipe]

Your reliance on “ no case with what we know”, is just naive - there is no way all the facts have been publicly disclosed.

And that’s where you fail the comprehension test. I have only ever taken issue with the posts that assume a negligence claim would get up.



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