List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

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Jen2310 said:
Peatling would be stupid to leave. Been in their system since he was 12/13 and now playing in their best team.
He said he wants to stay. But he can play.
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Its unlikely he will be going anywhere. His concern was he wasn't getting midfield time. But with injuries he was a revelation and hasn't missed a beat and he has maintained game time with the return of the players.

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Daicosian silk said:
Callum Brown not getting a game at GWS. Was dangerous in the preliminary final last year and kicked 5 goals in round 1 against the Pies this year. Speedy 24 year old, 188cm and 95kg forward. Might be worth asking about a trade?
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Yeah another undersized forward, we don’t have enough of them.
 

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Soups said:
Playing full time mid, I highly doubt he’ll be moving either but he’s definitely the type we need.

Perryman for me is just a good solid role player. And doesn’t look any different at today’s game.

Would you move the world to get him? No, but also why would you leave to go to port or the crows?
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Not for Perryman, no. But for Peatling or Callaghan I would. I mentioned Perryman because I heard on SEN yesterday he would go anywhere for more midfield time. With Peatlings form he is surplus. Giants have so many midfielders that 1-2 of them will have to drop.

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With the Hawks doing so well against Doggies talls and are about to recruit 2 key backs, is there a chance for us to swoop and recruit a current Hawks backman just like they did with Ginni??
 
Thinking Magpie said:
With the Hawks doing so well against Doggies talls and are about to recruit 2 key backs, is there a chance for us to swoop and recruit a current Hawks backman just like they did with Ginni??
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Health permitting, I would be keen to recruit the other Jiath. Pretty explosive player that can break the lines.

The only 2 Hawks Backman I would bother with are Scrimshaw who is basically Grant Birchall and Sicily.

Hopefully other Hawks players are targetted for recruitment by other clubs and offered big dollars to lure then away.

You would hope a club like StKilda who presumably are losing Battle, would fight back and target some Hawks players.
 
Roverjg said:
Collingwood playing their home games at the MCG is not Geelong's fault. Thats on us. So stop complaining about Geelong playing 9 home games a year. When 5 of their home games are interstate teams, where would you expect Geelong to play them? The other teams have always been the lesser supported teams.

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I’m simply stating facts - they have a massive walk up start, to finals every year with their HGA.
Surely you’re not denying this huge advantage.
 
sr36 said:
I agree. We've just got to try to improve at evaluating trades, drafting, salary cap. But we can't expect accuracy.Not saying there's issues but all clubs need to. The reality though is footy metrics aren't accurate enough yet,so vibe might still be the most accurate way of predicting and valuing. They'll gradually be getting better at judging which metrics matter, but it's not long ago that what Grundy offered was considered invaluable, but there's more of a scoring focus to metrics now and all those hitouts and sloppy clearances he gets have been devalued.

And in trades, as supporters we've got to stop valuing trades against previous trades and prices had, as the market will be continuing changing as they all get better at analysing value.
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To me the biggest improvement could come from understanding what we don't know. This is poorly understood in my opinion and that probably applies pretty widely to sports evaluation in particular but particularly AFL for the type of multidirectional, free wheeling game it is.

Vibe, knowledge and subjective assessments should be the gold standard until there is proof and objective measures have worth. Almost all the stats AFL uses should be seen in this way but they are not. Its why a grifter like Dank can come in and purport himself as a man of knowledge. In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king so to speak.

Hoyney isn't far off this also is my guess. I don't know his background but I doubt it involves any understanding of statistics. He is a man heading a group compiling masses of lists and data, creating new measures of often dubious value and using the data to create lists to which they then ascribe great significance. There seems to be no hypothesing, no planning to try and prove their ideas and no proper analysis.

Mostly the experience of the coach and the "vibe" is going to be a better guide. Use the numbers to back judgements perhaps but mostly they either tell you the glaringly obvious or you have no real idea of their significance.

The most dangerous people in any work /job situation is always the person who doesn't understand what they don't know.
 

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Gone Critical said:
Its an interesting thought but I see it a little different. I think its the guns of the AFL comp who are insanely talented and god like. When you come down to the average run of the mill players they are top shelf but they are not a lot different to the best in your local high level leagues.

We had David Parkin come down to address us one night back in the 80's and he touched on the topic when he was asked what seperated the VFL (at the time) players from our league. His reply. Forget about the top guys, the Abletss, Watsons etc they are just way above you, talent on a different level. But the difference between the average player he was coachig and the best players in our comp was marginal at best. He said mostly they are not faster, they don't kick it better, they don't mark it better etc etc. The big difference is they want it more than your best players and will do the work to make it happen.

Kinda makes sense if you think of god given talent as a pyramid. Thos on top are in rare air but as you go down just a bit the number of people with the same talent grows exponentially. You see it when ex AFL come bakc to high level local footy, they play well but they have to work to do that and they dont just stroll around doing as they like.
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No disrespect is meant by this because it’s come from an actual legend of the game, but things have changed immensely in a pathway sense with the introduction of the draft era. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess this was U19 days? The “senior” list was also at least 60 back then.

The context I’m talking is that there’s hundreds of local leagues throughout the country so each league if talent is evenly spread might produce one player drafted every few years. You could therefore be the best player in your league (let alone your club) in your age group for multiple seasons and still not get close to being drafted.

Each of our lived experiences is ultimately different (for instance I’ve played in strong leagues and country leagues that were just feeder leagues for other country leagues) so there’s no single answer to it, but we all learn from those experiences.

Edit: a side note. Genuine lol to the posts suggesting Peatling might be re-thinking a potential life altering decision on the back of one footy match. For context a few of us on here were chatting Peatling quite a while back and even that would have been slow compared to the pro scouts. If he moves it will have been in motion for a while.
 
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I know it’s still some time before the trade period, but who are our trade priorities? Peatling, Davies, Houston, Stringer, Macrae, other?
Who to trade out? Noble, AJ, Reef, Richards, other?
Also, are we looking to trade out of next years 1st for this years? Points for McGuane next year?
 
Anyone still in any doubt that we need Peatling?

We need to get to the head of the pack on this guy, not try to finesse it or low-ball.

Offer Giants 2024 and 2025 2nd rounders, sell him a vision as a starting centre square midfielder and pay what’s necessary to get him.

I’m sick of us finishing runner-up in recruitment drives. Get it done, Pies.


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No SPIN said:
Not sure I can agree their recruiting is miles ahead - we had the Hine debate months ago in this context. Recency bias with Dempsey and Humphries, is not enough in my view.
We even discussed their kids in the Hine debate and their kids are not miles ahead or ours.
Agree Scott underperformed when their finals LOSS rate was 75%, but his last 4 years have been very good with such an old list- not sure another Coach could have succeeded as he has with that list profile.
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Over the last 15yrs they are. They are a bit similar to us draft wise with finding guys late in the draft, plus VFL and lucky with father son. Also lucky with players wanting to come home and also lifestyle like Cameron and Danger.

Main difference is they have traded better and haven’t overpaid with 1st’s like we have. They did pay a lot for Cameron but it’s been worth it and those picks came from the Kelly trade.
 
If anyone suggests Lewis Young again they should get an immediate red card.
 
You only need to watch Calsher Dear and you’ll see there’s this fundamental problem that unless a KPP is a first round quality it’s not worth the investment.

He was pick 56 in last years draft…nobody bid on him despite being father son tied to hawks, basically nobody rated him.

He has been given the opportunity to also play games and he is thriving and building week to week.
He’s not the finished product by any stretch…but it’s an indictment on our list management team that we continue to overlook KPP unless they are of some sort of pedigree / status eg. High draft pick or already playing senior footy.
 
HFF said:
You only need to watch Calsher Dear and you’ll see there’s this fundamental problem that unless a KPP is a first round quality it’s not worth the investment.

He was pick 56 in last years draft…nobody bid on him despite being father son tied to hawks, basically nobody rated him.

He has been given the opportunity to also play games and he is thriving and building week to week.
He’s not the finished product by any stretch…but it’s an indictment on our list management team that we continue to overlook KPP unless they are of some sort of pedigree / status eg. High draft pick or already playing senior footy.
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16 other teams overlooked him
 

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List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

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