List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade and FA

[The Phantom]

I said “if” because we can only know what we saw and what is reported and I am not a doctor. I am not giving a formal legal advice - just sharing my thoughts on a footy forum watching this unfold from a distance.

I think a medical negligence claim is arguable and enough to get you out of the contract from what I can see.

Why?

The club and the doctor clearly owe him a duty of care. This is not only the law but specified in the the CBA.

For a doctor , this means that the doctor has a duty to provide medical care and carry out procedures with a reasonable level of competence and diligence.

Was there a reasonable level of competence and diligence?
My Dad is a doctor and says that it is a big miss to send someone back out there with a lacerated spleen and collapsed lung. He tells me a stethoscope check should have alerted the doctor to the possibility of a collapsed lung and he should have been sent to hospital at the quarter time break in any case. We also don’t know if he was given any warning about the risks of a shot in the context of internal injury or warned about risks of contact injury going back on the field
with internal injury. I am told pain injections and contact sport are contraindications for a collapsed lung and a significant risk.

Even if you gave the doctor the benefit of the doubt at the quarter time break, Petracca was clearly very unwell (white and doubled over in pain, clearly visible on the TV monitor the doctor can see). The duty of care continued during 20 minutes on field time and indeed they should have been keeping a very close eye on him. Was it reasonable to leave him out there? I would think not- certainly the Collingwood players did not think so.

Much has been made of him wanting to go back on. He clearly did not understand the gravity of the situation and the club and the doctor needed to intervene regardless. Every doctor knows this, especially in sport. Every concussion victim now in a class action wanted to go back on. They still have a claim.

Did he suffer harm as a result of the breach of duty ? This is the part where a medical professional needs to advise on the specifics. His injury is primarily caused by Darcy Moore’s knee but he appears to be indicating that at least his near death, pain and suffering and psychological trauma was caused by the club/ club doctor. Did he do more damage to his injury running around for 20 minutes in a contact sport ? Probably, especially if a collapsed lung could have been detected and he was told he was okay to go back on with pain relief. The fact these are contraindications is important as a competent doctor should know that. Under the CBA March day doctors are required to undertake emergency medical training on a regular basis.

There are a lot of questions. What was the impact of the delay in treatment? Did the doctor examine him properly? What medication did they give him to get him back on? Was there pressure applied by the coach?

Something has gone terribly wrong. The details are unclear but my sense is that more than one thing went horribly wrong and it ended up risking his life.

It is hard to know precisely but it does not look good and at a minimum is messy and very damaging for the doctor, the club and the AFL.

On the cursory information to hand, I think a negligence claim would be successful. His clear distress on national TV is certainly helpful.

Stuff ups happen all the time in healthcare which is why professional indemnity insurance is so expensive.

The President’s interview on SEN yesterday made me doubly suspicious that they are worried about this at Board level . She did not want to commit to knowing anything at all and appeared to be distancing herself as an instinct. It made her sound cold and uncaring but may have been a director indicating she was not on notice and trying to avoid personal liability.

Just a thought.

I am not here to give definitive advice, of course. I wanted to share my thoughts to try and see it through Petracca’s eyes and those of his family. There is a way out if he is determined to take it.


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For a concussion, Melbourne would have been fined at least in this situation.
They obviously have a responsibility here.

So to does any director.
Under this circumstance they have a duty to look after the best interests of the organisation which would clearly include investigating and issuing some please explain notices.

To get Trac out of his contract, a medical negligence claim, or indeed just a negligence claim, doesn’t even have to be absolute or winnable.
It just has to be factual, damaging and disruptive enough that manufacturing a release is preferable.

And that seems to be in process.

And Kudos to Trac and whoever the destination club is for staying mum.

Melbourne is doing an amazing job of blowing this up solo.

 

[gtrain23]

For a concussion, Melbourne would have been fined at least in this situation.
They obviously have a responsibility here.

So to does any director.
Under this circumstance they have a duty to look after the bed interests of the organisation which would clearly include investigating and issuing some please explain notices.

To get Trac out of his contract, a medical negligence claim, or indeed just a negligence claim, doesn’t even have to be absolute or winnable.
It just has to be factual, damaging and disruptive enough that manufacturing a release is preferable.

And that seems to be in process.

And Kudos to Trac and whoever the destination club is for staying mum.

Melbourne is doing an amazing job of blowing this up solo.

completely agree and his silence is a blessing on his behalf as it seems he is being very professional about the situation.

No blow up stories to media bla bla

All the leaks seem to be towards him so assuming it’s melb leaking it all

 

[manicpie]

And that’s where you fail the comprehension test. I have only ever taken issue with the posts that assume a negligence claim would get up.



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It's getting ridiculous, they haven't got a hope of claiming negligence. We all want Trac but that's not how we would get him

 

[gerryg400]

I have answered this. You would need more facts to hand to be definitive but it is arguable, in my view, at face value, based upon what doctors tell me about this type of injury. My radar went up even more after the President’s “I know nothing” train wreck of an interview yesterday.

As you would know a key element in court would be proving causation. How much of his harm is caused by the negligence of the doctor and club when Darcy’s knee is a culprit?

We are all looking from a distance so hard to say.

My point is more that nobody will want this argument held in public. It may only need to be arguable at this stage to get a deal done.



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He went to hospital and it wasn’t until after 8pm that doctors realised the severity of the injury. At 2am he was operated on.

Do you expect doctors at the ground to diagnose a ruptured spleen during a game when doctors in a hospital with more time and equipment took many hours to come to that conclusion?

 

[The Phantom]

He went to hospital and it wasn’t until after 8pm that doctors realised the severity of the injury. At 2am he was operated on.

Do you expect doctors at the ground to diagnose a ruptured spleen during a game when doctors in a hospital with more time and equipment took many hours to come to that conclusion?

I would expect the doctors diagnose that he is not well enough to play and requires a greater level of care than can be provided from the bench.

 

[gerryg400]

I would expect the doctors diagnose that he is not well enough to play and requires a greater level of care than can be provided from the bench.

Players get injured and return to the field all the time. Are you asking that that practice be stopped?

 

[In Fly We Trust]

He went to hospital and it wasn’t until after 8pm that doctors realised the severity of the injury. At 2am he was operated on.

Do you expect doctors at the ground to diagnose a ruptured spleen during a game when doctors in a hospital with more time and equipment took many hours to come to that conclusion?

I would expect them to err on the side of caution.

Blind Freddy could see that Trac should not have come back on the field and gone straight to hospital.

In todays litigious world they will pay the price for putting premiership points in front of people.


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[No SPIN]

What pertinent undisclosed facts might there be that would allow him to tear up his contract? It seems that he feels neglected but I don’t think that’s enough.

I suggest you read Queenie Hearts post above

 

[NMBB]

And now folks - an announcement re the long running, global hit show - "Trac faces his Demons" it's time for

 

[Fat Jesus]

Are you for real?

He is showing that he's trying to improve himself as a person by converting to Islam.
I think he knows all the mistakes of his past.
Some of the moral police here are cringeworthy.
Good luck Jake.

 

[upnsmoke]

I think I'd at least have a look at a 22 year old big 193cm / 89 kg midfielder who can run and has just averaged 15 touches, 3.4 clearances and 7 tackles in the season just gone despite not really getting any consistent run of games - especially when they will cost nothing to get across.

Yup

I didn't know much about Peatling and Davies. But a quick stat check with Davies and it shows he is tall, young and a keen tackler... a shoe in for McRae's system.
Peatling's stats as a non reserve or emergency player is also promising.


Also just checked Peatling stats the last 6 games and he is a tackling machine.

So Davies and Peatling being targeted by McRae and Pies is legit..... the Pies need good to very good tacklers.

 

[sr36]

For a concussion, Melbourne would have been fined at least in this situation.
They obviously have a responsibility here.

So to does any director.
Under this circumstance they have a duty to look after the best interests of the organisation which would clearly include investigating and issuing some please explain notices.

To get Trac out of his contract, a medical negligence claim, or indeed just a negligence claim, doesn’t even have to be absolute or winnable.
It just has to be factual, damaging and disruptive enough that manufacturing a release is preferable.

And that seems to be in process.

And Kudos to Trac and whoever the destination club is for staying mum.

Melbourne is doing an amazing job of blowing this up solo.

Showing it's damaging enough would be the hard bit. I'm not sure if "my family is really pissed off that I went back out there" would cut it.

The other factor is that we have no idea about the medical advice he was given. The doc may very well have told him that there's the potential that the hit did some organ damage and playing could be dangerous.

It's all just guessing.

 

[Apex36]

He is showing that he's trying to improve himself as a person by converting to Islam.
I think he knows all the mistakes of his past.
Some of the moral police here are cringeworthy.
Good luck Jake.

Finding God, or Jesus, or Mohamed doesn’t automatically erase your past. The bloke is an absolute stain for what he’s done, and there’s nothing he can do to change that.

 

[No SPIN]

And that’s where you fail the comprehension test. I have only ever taken issue with the posts that assume a negligence claim would get up.



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A quote from your post:
“That post got nowhere near to laying out the elements required for Petracca to mount a successful negligence claim”

Again you have assumed we have all the facts - we don’t.
Therefore you are incorrect dismissing the prospect of legal action.

If you want to dismiss his post - then I suggest you do it forensically to add substance to your stonewalling on the subject of negligence.

 

[sr36]

He is showing that he's trying to improve himself as a person by converting to Islam.
I think he knows all the mistakes of his past.
Some of the moral police here are cringeworthy.
Good luck Jake.

I'm with you. He ****ed up in his sex life about a decade ago. It's none of our business to start with, but how long does he remain persona non grata?

 

[Fat Jesus]

He went to hospital and it wasn’t until after 8pm that doctors realised the severity of the injury. At 2am he was operated on.

Do you expect doctors at the ground to diagnose a ruptured spleen during a game when doctors in a hospital with more time and equipment took many hours to come to that conclusion?

Perhaps Darcy Moore and a couple of our players should be doctors.
They took one look at him and were shocked he was sent back to play.

 

[Queenie Hearts]

He went to hospital and it wasn’t until after 8pm that doctors realised the severity of the injury. At 2am he was operated on.

Do you expect doctors at the ground to diagnose a ruptured spleen during a game when doctors in a hospital with more time and equipment took many hours to come to that conclusion?

This is why I post infrequently. I don’t expect anything. I am not a doctor. I am relying upon what a couple of doctors I know say should have happened in a conversation. I’m not running a case.

The point is he was in a hospital by then with equipment to hand to properly assess him.
Could he have been there earlier rather than played for 20 minutes? Doctors I have spoken with have said he should have been sent to hospital for assessment straight away and they took a big risk sending him out there with a jab (again, don’t know what they gave him but he said he received it).

There are many unanswered questions about what happened.

It was awful watching him doubled over in pain gasping for breath. I cannot fathom how his partner and parents would have felt. I have a visceral memory of his obvious physical distress.

My overall point is that
(A) his family may be wanting him to leave for his own welfare - they get a say in his mind;
(B) there is a mechanism to get out of his contract should he wish to exercise it;
(C) there are grounds to do so.

Answering all the detailed medical treatment questions needed to make or defend a negligence claim may not be in anyone’s interests.

I expect a deal to be facilitated.


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[NMBB]

Finding God, or Jesus, or Mohamed doesn’t automatically erase your past.

Buddha or the Dalai Lama can help

 

[gerryg400]

I suggest you read Queenie Hearts post above

I read it. My reading comprehension is pretty poor. I genuinely didn’t see any previously undisclosed facts.

 

[No SPIN]

Your reliance on there being undisclosed facts is far more tenuous, and I’m surprised you can’t see that.

Wait no I’m not.

Do you really think CP and his family wouldn’t be holding their cards close to their chest?

I think that is naive in the extreme.

Queenie Hearts post had 26 likes the last time I checked, that suggests my view point actually is more mainstream.

Anything else?

 

[manicpie]

I'm with you. He ****ed up in his sex life about a decade ago. It's none of our business to start with, but how long does he remain persona non grata?

None of us have any inside info on his personal life. People are just assuming. WGAF what he does in his sex life. Sounds like he's doing better than me. If we get him cheap, it's a no brainer

 

[Scodog10]

Showing it's damaging enough would be the hard bit. I'm not sure if "my family is really pissed off that I went back out there" would cut it.

The other factor is that we have no idea about the medical advice he was given. The doc may very well have told him that there's the potential that the hit did some organ damage and playing could be dangerous.

It's all just guessing.

Just on this I find it alarming that this could have been the discussion, but if it were his brain impacted by the contact it would have been an absolute non negotiable that his day was done.

 

[Piewithsauce13]

It's getting ridiculous, they haven't got a hope of claiming negligence. We all want Trac but that's not how we would get him

Agreed. I reckon all we need is for him to nominate us and it will get done.

 

[Fat Jesus]

It's getting ridiculous, they haven't got a hope of claiming negligence. We all want Trac but that's not how we would get him

All they need to do is say it. It will hurt "Melbourne's Brand".
This is what MFC is scared about.
No player will want to go there.
No mother will want their son there.
It will damage their brand severely.
It already has.

 

[sideswipe]

This is why I post infrequently. I don’t expect anything. I am not a doctor. I am relying upon what a couple of doctors I know say should have happened in a conversation. I’m not running a case.

The point is he was in a hospital by then with equipment to hand to properly assess him.
Could he have been there earlier rather than played for 20 minutes? Doctors I have spoken with have said he should have been sent to hospital for assessment straight away and they took a big risk sending him out there with a jab (again, don’t know what they gave him but he said he received it).

There are many unanswered questions about what happened.

It was awful watching him doubled over in pain gasping for breath. I cannot fathom how his partner and parents would have felt. I have a visceral memory of his obvious physical distress.

My overall point is that
(A) his family may be wanting him to leave for his own welfare - they get a say in his mind;
(B) there is a mechanism to get out of his contract should he wish to exercise it;
(C) there are grounds to do so.

Answering all the detailed medical treatment questions needed to make or defend a negligence claim may not be in anyone’s interests.

I expect a deal to be facilitated.


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I don’t think there is any right to terminate his playing contract. There is certainly no ability to terminate set out in the SPC.


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