List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2016 part 2 - see Mod Warning p 281

[TradeDraft]

Maybe you haven' watched him as closely as I have.
I would rather a football brain, knowing where to run, good at hitouts, never lets his opponent get too far away and drops back to support his forwards and backs.

But still lacks impact and Him Being Close to his man does not mean that His Oppenent is quiet though.

Grundy is a not a Dumb Player. He has different a style to Witts

 

[TW Sherrin]

What the??
Surely he's playing mind games...
Meanwhile, Connors confirmed Collingwood key forward Travis Cloke will seek to depart the club with the Magpies keen to free up their salary cap. It is expected Cloke will sign a two-year deal with the Western Bulldogs.
Connors said Cloke has a healthy relationship with Pies coach Nathan Buckley but the pair saw his game differently, and that a deal would likely take an exchange of a later draft pick.
"Collingwood's after a lot of players in this year's trade period and I think they need some salary cap room. I think you'll find both parties come together in a few weeks and work it out," Connors said.
"I think Collingwood wants his money out. It's very mutual, there's a lot of respect. I think Travis has spoken really well – that he's loved the club and really likes 'Bucks' but they're probably just not on the same wavelength from a football perspective.
"I don't think you're going to see pick 35 jump out of any club's pocket into Collingwood's [for Cloke], it's more a free agency type model."
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-09-20/lion-hanley-a-long-way-from-being-traded-says-manager

we are really that desperate to free up 400k we are "giving" him away?


the way this discussion has been framed is disappointing. cloke refuses to own any responsibility for milking the place and not being capable of playing anywhere near competent for more than 2 games in 2016.

sooner this joker is gone the better.

 

[Maggie5]

This is what Gary Buckenara wrote last year about us:

COLLINGWOOD has had its two-year finals sabbatical and now it’s time for the Pies to return to September action.

Nathan Buckley has a number of quality young players on his list and the sky is the limit for the group next season – finals are a non-negotiable and even challenging for a premiership isn’t out of the question.

The Pies have promised a fair bit – everyone at the club says they’re happy with what they’ve got and are excited about what the team can do going forward – but the fact is they’ve dropped away two years in a row.

It was inexperience that cost them this season, while bad luck with injuries also played a role but as a club internally, they’d still be disappointed.

There’s some real class in the midfield led by Scott Pendlebury, up forward with Jamie Elliott and Steele Sidebottom is a clever player to name a couple. But on the list as a whole I agree with them – there is some real upside and now they just need to start delivering.

What has held them back a bit – and I’ll go into this in a bit more depth a bit later in this column – is that their ball movement stalls or gets cut off because there aren’t enough penetrating kickers in the team.

There are good young players in Darcy Moore, Brayden Maynard, Jonathon Marsh and Matthew Scharenberg who will be a very, very good player. Travis Varcoe has added something, Marley Williams provides good run from defence but can be erratic with his kicking and Tom Langdon reads the ball really well but needs to work on getting a better punch into his use by foot.

In terms of trading, GWS midfielder Adam Treloar is expected to arrive and he’s a really good player who’ll add something more to Pendlebury, Levi Greenwood, Taylor Adams, Jack Crisp and Jordan De Goey. In terms of trade value though, it’s expected the Pies with give up their first-round picks in 2015 and 2016 and get a second-round pick back but to me, pick No. 7 this year would have been adequate to secure him. It would be fair and reasonable compensation.

In this draft, to get a pick inside 10 is very, very good value particularly because of the lack of depth in it and that adds value.

With the addition of Treloar, the midfield is very good. In terms of James Aish who also wants to head to the Pies, I’m not convinced. He’s not overly quick but does have good skills. Overall though, I think they have enough of his type.

Forwards are more a priority and Melbourne’s Jeremy Howe is a very good fit. He can slot into that forward role and present a genuine marking option to take the heat off Travis Cloke a bit.

Paul Seedsman wants to go to Adelaide and they’d be after a pick inside No. 30 for him. A second-round pick for Nathan Freeman is also around the mark although they are disappointed to lose him.

All in all, Buckley has a very talented group to work with in 2016 but talent only takes you so far. The Pies must deliver on promise and play finals.

WHAT THEY NEED
There is a reasonable balance to Collingwood’s list but the priorities for me would be another key forward and key defender and line-breakers with pace and who use the ball well.

It goes without saying that the Pies are still too reliant on Cloke and Jesse White who goes missing too often. Moore will develop into a nice key position player but need to put on a bit of weight but I think they need to add another one.

If Ben Reid can get himself right then that puts the Pies in a much better position but I think another key defender wouldn’t go astray.

The Pies have quite a few in-and-under types –Adams, Greenwood, Jarryd Blair, Maynard is tough but is also a lovely kick, even Dane Swan is that type of player, so that is where the line-breakers and good ball users who add class become important.

Collingwood have too many guys who have what we call “slow kicks”. They can kick it ok but it has too much height on it and gives the opposition a chance to cut them off. More players who really punch the ball when they kick it so it gets there fast are important for the Pies.

WHO’S UNDER THE PUMP

Jackson Ramsay is under the pump despite showing good signs earlier this year given he has been there since 2012. He needs to get his body right after missing so many games with a shin injury. The same goes for Ben Sinclair who has consistently battled soft tissue injuries and has only played 11 games in his last two years.

WHO SHOULD GO
Sam Dwyer, Clinton Young, Tony Armstrong and Michael Manteit have already been delisted and they’ve made the right calls there because all those guys were on my list as under the pump for 2016. Patrick Karnezis was also on the list but he’s opted to retire. Other than that it’s hard to say because the Pies do have such a young list, I need to see more of these kids.

CRYSTAL BALL

For mine, the Pies have been disappointing the last couple of years even though they have been in a bit of a development/re-jig mode. It’s time for them to start delivering.

I seem them being a contender next year – as I said earlier as a minimum should play finals in 2016 – but if not next year in terms of challenging then definitely in 2-3 years the Pies should be knocking on the door of winning a premiership.

There should be good times ahead and not just as one year on, one year off. Collingwood look set for sustained success with the group of talented young players they’ve assembled plus the football a guy like Dane Swan still has left to offer. I reckon he’s got a few more years left in him yet.

LACHIE KEEFFE AND JOSH THOMAS

They’ve been delisted by the Pies who have committed to bringing them back via the rookie draft and I think that’s a really smart move. They were showing really good signs as players – Keeffe as that key position player they need and Thomas as another midfielder. They made a terrible mistake but I believe because of the talent they’ve shown, they’re definitely worth a second chance.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Thanks Snoop Dog

Using this points system, for interest sake regarding any potential Breust trade, what was Jed Anderson worth last trade period that got him to NM. The trade was North got Anderson Pick 38 and 40 and Hawthorn received picks 15 and 54

By the points system, that's the equivalent of pick 40, but we all know that the points system is rubbish, because it massively undervalues early picks and overvalues late picks.

A pick after 50 is worth basically nothing, but by the points system, packaging four together can get you into the first round.

It's like saying that you can package four Nokia 3210s together to get an iPhone.

 

[TheSierBear]

We need Cox to come on too. If he can.

I forgot about Cox, we really need him to come on next year. Very important with Witts all but gone.

 

[whiskeytown]

what was I told this at a breakfast this morning by a my source. (take it however you like)

Daniel Wells is a Pie lock it in, told Collingwood he'll accept the deal. Likely he'll be announced first day of open Free Agency as a Pie.
WHE situation has been same, wants to come back to Melbourne wants to be a Pie.
Gubby really really wants James Stewart at the club because lack of KPF. Blues should get him.
Mayne also a lock agreed to a deal, apparently not on as much money as some say..
Marley Williams is keen on a trade but not home....wants to stay in Melbourne and Richmond are keen watch this space.
Goodyear & Gault were told yesterday they would not be offered another deal.

Edited: Brown is 50/50 but Roos will more than likely trade for him to not off set their compo for Wells. Was also reported on SEN this morning I think,

Marley to Tigers is an interesting one. They don't have a second rounder so pick 42 seems our best hope... unless they trade in an earlier pick in the 30's or receive compo pick for Vickery or delidio leaving...

Swap wise - aside from their elite talent, there's not much on their list that I know or rate.

 

[Pedro]

we are really that desperate to free up 400k we are "giving" him away?


the way this discussion has been framed is disappointing. cloke refuses to own any responsibility for milking the place and not being capable of playing anywhere near competent for more than 2 games in 2016.

sooner this joker is gone the better.

This is the interesting thing imo. Every media outlet out there seems to want to push the case for us just giving him away. A while back they were suggesting we would have to pay his salary as well for the privilege of getting rid of him. Only thing I'll say is that we haven't heard anything from the club yet. And we won't until trade week gets going. I hope these pricks get a bit of a shock when Hine & Gubby take over the reins.

 

[Pedro]

Marley to Tigers is an interesting one. They don't have a second rounder so pick 42 seems our best hope... unless they trade in an earlier pick in the 30's or receive compo pick for Vickery or delidio leaving...

Swap wise - aside from their elite talent, there's not much on their list that I know or rate.

They also have Prestia to deal with which would obviously take precedence. Better judges than me will know - Is Lennon any good? He wants out I think. I've seen glimpses from him but there also seems to be a few gumbies getting games in front of him. Attitude/effort perhaps?

 

[Old Spice]

Bit of brinkmanship. I like it.

I heard Neil Balme on SEN talking about planning and then staying the course. I don't think we should do much of the reactive biz such as x is on the market, what can we do to get him. Just have faith in the list decisions you've made and target very specifically and some way out.

 

[TheSierBear]

Marley to Tigers is an interesting one. They don't have a second rounder so pick 42 seems our best hope... unless they trade in an earlier pick in the 30's or receive compo pick for Vickery or delidio leaving...

Swap wise - aside from their elite talent, there's not much on their list that I know or rate.

Marley Williams to Richmond is very juicy rumour where has it come from? I don't think they are the best option for us, the trade wars of the eighties that has seem them spiral into a club of misery ever since reared it's ugly head again with Treloar. That said, the trade would have a long way to go before they could get him for pick 42. I think Marley even on the back of a poor year is worth more than that. I think they might get pick returned for Prestia, they'd also get a pick for Vickery, Deledio and potentially Riewoldt.

 

[Ketchup]

Marley to Tigers is an interesting one. They don't have a second rounder so pick 42 seems our best hope... unless they trade in an earlier pick in the 30's or receive compo pick for Vickery or delidio leaving...

Swap wise - aside from their elite talent, there's not much on their list that I know or rate.

Could be a relative simple trade.

Marley > Richmond
Lennon > someone
That pick (second round) > us

 

[Buckleys_Chance]

They also have Prestia to deal with which would obviously take precedence. Better judges than me will know - Is Lennon any good? He wants out I think. I've seen glimpses from him but there also seems to be a few gumbies getting games in front of him. Attitude/effort perhaps?

We have been targeting high draft picks in his age bracket. Lennon could be swap for Marley. I'd be happy with that.

 

[CFC2010]

No doubt. Is he Travis' new manager? All he wants is a smooth transition to the Bulldogs. Doesn't take into account Collingwoods interests. Hine & Gubby or whoever is running the show will know exactly what they want out of this trade and no amount of talking it down in the media will change that.

That may be a late pick and salary cap relief. But everyone seems to be angling towards us just giving him away which I hope doesn't happen. In the same breath they talk about 2nd round compo picks for geriatrics like Wells and battlers like Chris Mayne. "Its more a free agency model" No its not. He's contracted and although he says he's going to relinquish his current contract, I assume Collingwood need to agree on the terms of that happening.

Doesn't seem right to just bend over to all and sundry for the sake of freeing up $400-$450K in the salary cap. We need to demand adequate compensation.

Say what you like but I think Connors is the best in the business.......why do you think the Cloke's are using him for his last contract?

You can guarantee Cloke will be at the Dogs next year.

 

[TW Sherrin]

This is the interesting thing imo. Every media outlet out there seems to want to push the case for us just giving him away. A while back they were suggesting we would have to pay his salary as well for the privilege of getting rid of him. Only thing I'll say is that we haven't heard anything from the club yet. And we won't until trade week gets going. I hope these pricks get a bit of a shock when Hine & Gubby take over the reins.

I could appreciate the "discussion" if Cloke had been on crap money or taken pay cuts to help the club. Instead he bent the club over. Now expects us to roll out the red carpet and get bent over one more time.

 

[cleomenes]

From what I saw this year, the prospects of Cox becoming a regular and very effective senior player next year are good.If he does come up, the tall forward role is covered. White is then the third tall, his best role. Assuming Cloke is gone, there is no cover, so everyone has to stay fit.
Keeffe's ruck and forward prospects have been talked up in places. They don't exist. He is a backman or out of the team. Reid is a possible forward, but everyone seems to associate his injury problems with playing forward (no connection as far as I can see) so he won't go there.
Gault has blown his chances.
By changing the forward mix using Mayne, the problem is lessened, but remains. Conclusion: we need a backup tall forward. I think that the first line is, in prospect at least, OK.
I disagree with Buckenara's assessment of a few. Treloar and Adams are in no way similar in the way they play. We need both. The one with most problems in the midfield is de Goey. He improved later in the year, but he didn't come on as I had expected. He is similar to Crisp but less effective.
The negatives with Broomhead are his injuries as Buckenarta says and that he doesn't get the ball enough, but not his kicking, which is good.
For the coming year, the possibilities are good, if the injuries are few, but his analysis is accurate in saying that we are vulnerable to injuries in particular areas. The effect on Hawthorn of Roughead's absence should tell most of what needs telling about the effect of injuries to key personnel.
The Footscray experience shows what can be done to cover injuries provided the attitude is right and the personell lost are replaceable from what you have on the list.

 

[whiskeytown]

If Mayne can find his 2012/13 form and we get him at a good price that RupertFan mentioned, why not.

I reckon if he's at a good price, he only needs to add 20 goals and add 70+ tackles to our forward half and he'll be very worthwhile. He's presence will help Moore, fasolo, cox (and pray) elliot greatly. I'm thinking he brings the forward pressure that goldsack gave us back in 2012

 

[TW Sherrin]

They also have Prestia to deal with which would obviously take precedence. Better judges than me will know - Is Lennon any good? He wants out I think. I've seen glimpses from him but there also seems to be a few gumbies getting games in front of him. Attitude/effort perhaps?

have a look at Lennon's stats in the VFL. Crocker has him covered in his first year and I think Crocker will struggle to get a game next year with everyone healthy.

pass from me.

tigers have very little we would be interested in. I would like B Ellis for Williams and a 2nd. that might be wishful thinking.

 

[Pedro]

Say what you like but I think Connors is the best in the business.......why do you think the Cloke's are using him for his last contract?

You can guarantee Cloke will be at the Dogs next year.

No doubt he will get there. But you mentioned earlier that they are about the money. Which of course is true, but isn't he relinquishing 1 year with us on $400-$450, for 2 years at the Bulldogs on a lot less? He's not going to get big coin there. And if he was, it only strengthens the argument for better compensation imo. I couldn't care less that he's going. I just don't want to end up with pick 75 for him. Seems like a total waste

 

[Pedro]

have a look at Lennon's stats in the VFL. Crocker has him covered in his first year and I think Crocker will struggle to get a game next year with everyone healthy.

pass from me.

tigers have very little we would be interested in. I would like B Ellis for Williams and a 2nd. that might be wishful thinking.

Fair enough re Lennon. I hope its just Richmonds game style, but it does no favours for Brandon Ellis imo. He doesn't do much for me to be honest.

 

[CFC2010]

No doubt he will get there. But you mentioned earlier that they are about the money. Which of course is true, but isn't he relinquishing 1 year with us on $400-$450, for 2 years at the Bulldogs on a lot less? He's not going to get big coin there. And if he was, it only strengthens the argument for better compensation imo. I couldn't care less that he's going. I just don't want to end up with pick 75 for him. Seems like a total waste

At the end of the day he will probably receive and extra $100 - $200 thousand by having a two year contract.

Connors is just marking his territory by getting on the front foot.........we now have our own bad cop on the scene (Gubby) so let's just see how this plays out. I have a feeling it will be for a player and a late pick.

Sorry Pedro but we might be getting bent over on this one.

Personally I would have just made Cloke play next year but I am sinister bastard like that!

 

[TheSierBear]

Connors is trying to play the political game of, if Collingwood doesn't do the trade the media pressure on Bucks will be intense. What's it to Connors what the Dogs offer us? Cloke's management should be telling the Dogs to fairly compensate us. Other players have done this. Poor management by Connors, he's afilliated with Cloke, not the Dogs. Oh hang on a minute, he's afiliated with the Clokes.

Cloke is well respected by Collingwood, no need to play this bullshit political game. He'll lose respect by playing this game, just ask the Dogs to fairly compensate us, that's all.

 

[Crazy Tails]

From the Herald Sun article http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...n/news-story/3631ba9b2313598986b1a314c615a3f9


COLLINGWOOD was a big disappointment this year.

I wrote in last year’s column it was finals or bust for the Pies because the club believed the list was a genuine flag contender and there would be no excuses for missing finals in 2016.

As it has turned out the Pies’ list was unable to cope with injuries and the imbalance of playing types created by those injuries. Injuries illustrate the depth quality you have to cover them.

The Pies have recruited far too many similar types — big-bodied inside midfielders — so the list management and recruiting has for some reason been either done on a playing style instruction from coaches to recruit those types, or it has been just taking the best ranked player at their draft picks, which can create an imbalance in recruiting if the best ranked player at every pick you have is a midfielder type.

What has happened, in my opinion, is Collingwood’s list is poorly balanced in player types and now the types of players they are desperate for are the hardest to find — key-position players — which will hurt them unless they can boost their stocks via free agency or during the trade period.

Questions list managers and recruiters should be asking themselves are:

WHAT are our positional needs?

HOW many players have we got capable of playing in various positions?

WHERE are we short and need to invest in to give our list a better balance?


That’s where the Pies have fallen down and because of that, they haven’t been able to cover certain injuries. Instead, they’ve tried to turn these inside midfielders into high half-forwards or rebound defenders and it hasn’t suited the players’ style of football.

If the Pies had a better balance to their list management and recruiting in looking for different types, then there wouldn’t be this bulk of inside mids who do their best work at stoppages rather than outside players with speed who can use the ball extremely well.

When you go through a list management process you need 12-14 A and B-grade players to compete as well as a good depth of C-grade players. At the Pies, while they have some potentially good young players, their depth isn’t what they think it is.

Scott Pendlebury and Steele Sidebottom are A-graders, Ben Reid, Taylor Adams, Adam Treloar, Jamie Elliott, Brodie Grundy and Jordan De Goey are B-graders, as is Travis Varcoe at a stretch. Darcy Moore is developing and is coming on at speed and will be an A-grader soon.

James Aish is still developing but I think he can become a B-grader and there’s big raps on Tom Langdon but I think he’s a C-grader because he’s not a great kick, it’s too slow and gets intercepted.

Treloar and Adams are very good players but they’re similar and I’m not sure that was taken into consideration when the club was targeting them in trades. Were they an actual desperate need given where the side is at.
I’d throw Aish into that equation as well, although he really started to turn his form around at the back end of the year to show he can be a very capable league footballer. And then there’s Levi Greenwood as well.

De Goey also plays his best footy as an inside midfielder and Ben Crocker can play inside but they’ve used him more as a tall utility.

​

If I was at Collingwood I would only accept a second-round draft pick for Cloke if they are willing to pay most or all of his salary.

​

The forward line is an area of concern. Elliott was sorely missed obviously but if they’re going into next season with Jesse White as the only tall flanking Moore — who is going to be a star — that’s not going to fill defenders with fear.

You can’t rely on White for a consistent effort week in, week out. He makes far too many mistakes and floats in and out of games.

Mason Cox can help Grundy in the ruck and go forward but he’s still got a lot to learn and you can’t be banking on him to be the game-breaker tall.

On a more positive note, Grundy’s development and improvement has continued and he’s become one of the best ruckmen in the league. Varcoe is a good rebound defender but has been forced forward and I like Brayden Maynard — I think he can turn into a really good rebound defender.

Alex Fasolo is a very dangerous player and he showed why this year with his marking and ground-level skills before being cut down by injury.

Reid is key to Collingwood and he played most of this year but whether he can back it up next year will be a critical question. The Pies need him because the defence also has gaps in it in terms of talls.

Travis Cloke has requested a trade and it looks like the Bulldogs is his likely destination. If they came to me and I was at Collingwood I would only accept their second-round draft pick if they were willing to pay most or all of his salary. If not then the trade would need to be more than that.

If they’re not going to get that sort of a deal then the Pies would be better off keeping him and possibly trying to turn him into a defender if they believe he no longer has much to offer as a forward.

Jarrod Witts is behind Grundy in the ruck and is looking elsewhere by all reports so the Pies could use him to try and bring in a key-position player. Ruckmen are hard to find so that will elevate his price.

Would they be interested in Brent Harvey or Nick Dal Santo? I think they would because both would offer something, particularly Dal Santo across halfback with his good kicking skills.

Daniel Wells would be a good fit because his ball use is elite and he’s got pace but the query is on his body.

Will Hoskin-Elliott has been linked to Collingwood but he’s not an elite ball user. He’s an average to good kick and a bit of a playmaker, he can make things happen and is tough, hard and takes a good mark for his size. He’s a utility but he’s another player similar to what they have and the Pies are probably better off trying to get into deals for a key defender.

Bulldog Lin Jong toured the club’s facilities and he’s a tallish utility who can play midfield and forward and has a good leap, so he can be handy around the ground as a third-man up. But again, he’s not a key-position player.

When you look at Hawthorn, they went out and recruited Josh Gibson, James Frawley, Brian Lake, Ben McEvoy, Jack Gunston and David Hale — all players who became very important players in premiership years.

Collingwood keeps going after midfielders.

If I was at the Pies I’d be taking a gamble on Eagle Mitch Brown, Nathan’s brother, to add that key-position depth despite his injury concerns because he’s a restricted free agent so he wouldn’t cost them anything.

WHAT THEY NEED

The Pies are desperate for key-position players forward and back and the loss of Cloke only exacerbates that. It’s a critical need.

As I’ve mentioned already, Moore is a star but outside him there isn’t much in the way of key-position depth on the list so they’re in a bit of a conundrum in how they improve their list and get it into a position to be regular finals contenders and become a premiership chance.

Players with elite ball use is also a critical need at Collingwood as well as players with outside speed, so that’s running defenders with speed and endurance with good kicking skills and wingers who bring the same attributes. I just don’t think there are enough good kicks on the list.

Collingwood could also use a developing young ruckman if Witts is traded.

WHO’S UNDER THE PUMP?

Players I believe are under the pump are Matthew Goodyear, Tim Broomhead, Brayden Sier, Lachie Keeffe, Josh Thomas and Corey Gault.

Broomhead shows potential but he’s never on the park, whether it’s injury or illness he has missed a lot of footy and he needs to put consecutive games together to show he can be a player otherwise his time might be up. He needs to work on his kicking as well.

Sier was drafted last year in a surprise from the Pies and had an injury interrupted year, but in a season in which the Pies used nearly every player on their list, he didn’t get a look in and wasn’t really close at all.

Then there’s Keeffe and Thomas who will return next season from two-year drug bans. There is a lot of pressure on those two to repay the faith the club has shown in them. They must make an impact next year. Both have senior experience so should be putting together a huge pre-season to show they’re as committed to Collingwood as Collingwood has been committed to them.

WHO SHOULD GO

Dane Swan, Alan Toovey and Brent Macaffer have already retired but I don’t think there’s a place for Gault, he just hasn’t shown enough. He has been given a couple of opportunities at senior level but hasn’t taken them. Goodyear is another one, he’s been on the list for a few years and Broomhead I would move on because you need to make room on your list and the Pies need to refresh. He’s never out there and his kicking is terrible.

CRYSTAL BALL

I wrote last year it was finals or bust and according to the messages coming out of the club that’s the expectation again next year — but then there was also talk of development and being in a development phase during the year. So what is it?

Did the club get it wrong at the start of the season? Or was it just bad luck with injuries but also poor list management and recruiting?

The list to me as it currently sits can compete for finals. I think they’re a side in the fifth-10th bracket and if they can add a bit of quality they should be a top eight side knocking on the door of top four if everything goes right with injuries and form.

Wow what a great read. A magnificent, unbiased and thorough analysis

Hine out, Bucky in!

 

[RupetFan]

Marley to Tigers is an interesting one. They don't have a second rounder so pick 42 seems our best hope... unless they trade in an earlier pick in the 30's or receive compo pick for Vickery or delidio leaving...

Swap wise - aside from their elite talent, there's not much on their list that I know or rate.

No one on their list besides Martin and maybe Riwoldt is elite or worth anything.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Fair enough re Lennon. I hope its just Richmonds game style, but it does no favours for Brandon Ellis imo. He doesn't do much for me to be honest.

I think Ellis is what we need. Outside.

 

[RupetFan]

Connors is trying to play the political game of, if Collingwood doesn't do the trade the media pressure on Bucks will be intense. What's it to Connors what the Dogs offer us? Cloke's management should be telling the Dogs to fairly compensate us. Other players have done this. Poor management by Connors, he's afilliated with Cloke, not the Dogs. Oh hang on a minute, he's afiliated with the Clokes.

Cloke is well respected by Collingwood, no need to play this bullshit political game. He'll lose respect by playing this game, just ask the Dogs to fairly compensate us, that's all.

No he isn't he just said the trade isn't going to be for anything big. It's more Collingwood wants the cap space then compo for him which is probably right.