Collingwood vs Carlton - Where to for the loser?

[dave_27]

and Collingwood have Swan (25) Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham etc (all 21 or under) well.....yeah I wouldn't be having a pop at anyone.

How come you left out Obree and Lockyer out of that list you were supposed to be wowing me with? Where is Toovey?? they are all in Collingwoods best 22.

Oh I see why.....

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Oh so only 50% of them thought they are a chance for top 4.

FWIW I live with a Blues fan and i pretty much watch every Blues game with him and a heap of his Carlton following mates and the general consensus amongst them early in the year was that Blues should be top 4 contenders this season.

Also, some of the crap that the Calron supporters were talking at the Carlton vs Essendon game was embarrassing to say the least. They couldnt believe that such a good team could be being beatien by such an ordinary one.

... just like all the Esssendon supporters I know now talking up Essendon as a certain top 4 chance. A few are even starting to talk '93 (and all the Baby Bombers crap) and sneaking a flag this year.

 

[Galactico]

How come you left out Obree and Lockyer out of that list you were supposed to be wowing me with? Where is Toovey?? they are all in Collingwoods best 22.

Oh I see why.....

O'bree and Lockyer are at the end of their careers. They won't be there in 2-3 years. I think O'bree will be gone by next year even, given the emergence of Beams.

All the one's I mentioned will. Toovey is a fringe player right now. Why bring him up? Look at the subject for what it is, young core midfielders.

I mentioned them above. Digest it.

 

[mcgarnacle]

I think you are getting ahead of yourselves. The real test for Collingwood is tomorrow night. I have no idea which way it will go, but for Magpies to be worrying about next week at this juncture is just unrealistic. I can see the stadium filled to the brim tomorrow, more than half will be in Black and White - and they will have only one thought in their minds, and that won't be Carlton.

incorrect.

the whole stadium will be in black & white..........and the minority will have a tinge of red.

 

[dave_27]

O'bree and Lockyer are at the end of their careers. They won't be there in 2-3 years.

Yet you are still reliant on them. Where is all this young talent pushing guys like Obree out?

All the one's I mentioned will. Toovey is a fringe player right now. Why bring him up?

You quoted me a list of midfielders at Collingwood yet refused to name a player who has played every game bar 1 this year for Collingwood.

Are you embarassed of "bringing him up"?

I'm talking the future 'core' midfielders. I mentioned them. Digest it.

Pendlebury is the only proven young midfielder you have.

Every club can name a Wellingham or Beams on their list.

 

[E Shed]

What does he have to worry about? The bombers have half there side out, and have managed wins against 3 quality sides + freo. Sitting nicely on 4 wins and 3 losses.

More than us hapless Carlton supporters can cheer about.

Beat your lot mate, and Sydney.

 

[Rohan25]

Carlton fc, it's supporters....have pumped up Carlton to be a certain top 4 team this season.

Supporters have done nothing of the kind. I know no Carlton supporter who thinks we are top 4 quality. All the media's doing.

What a load of crap - you are just making the stuff up.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572845

Confirmed!!!

 

[jonoman89]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572845

Confirmed!!!

Obviously you're new to BF, or you're very stupid.

 

[HFF]

Pendlebury is the only proven young midfielder you have.

Every club can name a Wellingham or Beams on their list.[/quote]

Dane Swan (25) goes alright I would have thought. Is easily in the comp's top 20 players.

Whilst I agree that every side can name a Wellingham or Beams on their list, we actually have a midfield core that runs as deep as anyone's or deeper and isn't reliant on one or two players.

This is evident with Collingwood being the #1 clearance side in the competition, which does sound surprising considering some of the talented midfields of Hawks, Geelong, Blues etc.

The Collingwood midfield is severly underrated and is actually developing very nicely. It possesses players better than anyone in Essendon's current midfield.

 

[Rohan25]

Obviously you're new to BF, or you're very stupid.

Oh righto because you've proven yourself to be such a Rhodes scholar in your BF career so far. There's plenty of support for her in that thread.

 

[jonoman89]

Oh righto because you've proven yourself to be such a Rhodes scholar in your BF career so far. There's plenty of support for her in that thread.

So if i go over to your board, do a trawl of posts there, there will be no mention of top 4?

Similarity: Every club has stupid supporters

Difference: The media are keen to pump up Carlton at every opportunity, not Collingwood. Primarily because it creates discussion like this and in the long run makes them a wad of cash.

 

[Dylz48]

I would be more worried about your own team. Essendon could easily be 2-5 and Carlton could easily have been 6-1.

but yes, regardless of the outcome Collingwood will make up the numbers like usual.

I did not know that the season was decided on the if ladder I thought it was decided by the real ladder where carlton are 3-4 and essendon are 4-3

 

[Galactico]

Yet you are still reliant on them. Where is all this young talent pushing guys like Obree out?

You quoted me a list of midfielders at Collingwood yet refused to name a player who has played every game bar 1 this year for Collingwood.

Are you embarassed of "bringing him up"?

Pendlebury is the only proven young midfielder you have.

Every club can name a Wellingham or Beams on their list.

and its good to see that you continue to divert attention away from what I actually mentioned specifically. I'm guessing you agree then?

Young talent pushing guys like O'bree out? FFS O'bree is part of the rotations, he is still a decent clearance player, that's why he is still there. However Beams has just made his debut and Sidebottom is yet to play so why get rid of O'bree right now? He will be phased out when the time is right and I think that will be in the next year, 2 at max.

I suppose with Pendlebury emerging as a damaging clearance player also, there is less need for him again. Why worry about it? It's as if your saying we are relying alot on a player I didn't mentioned. Not true.

Do you have the like of Wellingham and Beams on your list, at their ages? Name them.

Toovey? Not embarrassed by anything, he's played alot but is he in our 'core' young midfielders? No he isn't, hence why I didn't mention him.

So do you want to actually address what I asked specifically or not? I'm guessing not for obvious reasons, fair enough.

 

[Rohan25]

So if i go over to your board, do a trawl of posts there, there will be no mention of top 4?

Similarity: Every club has stupid supporters

Probably not from me, As I said to one of our own last night, I never made any grand predictions about our results this year.

You are right though, plenty of people on our board did expect some real results this year, and plenty of them were just as gloomy and pessimistic as they always are.

Also, I guess my post before was a bit facetious, but I wasn't trying to upset anyone, or start any fights. Just poking a bit of fun. I threw in the smiley icon as a little shout out to the creator of the "Top 4- confirmed" thread, indicating I was aware of her previous work.

Here's to a good game next Sunday mate.

 

[Blues_Man]

I would love to quote all the posts on the Carlton board of all your supporters talking up the Blues as a top 4 chance but i have been banned from your board.

Yes most trolls soon get weeded out on our board

Likewise, take a look at the ladder prediction threads and you will see heaps of people picking Essnedon as bottom 2 and the vast majority saying they will atleast finish bottom 4.

You do realise it's not even halfway through the season and essendon could still finish bottom 4 ? ...so your premature cockiness could come back and bite you .

For mine i don't hold Carlton out as a serious flag challenger ...i am happy with our development so far ..theoretically we could be 7-0 right now .

So win lose or draw against the Pies doesn't mean a great lot in the grand scheme of things ..unless we get demolished ..that would be a concern.

 

[Jono B]

I think its rather hillarious looking at the Essendon supporters in this thread.

You scrape 2 wins against Collingwood and Carlton when you really shouldn't have and a good win against a rabble which is Hawthorn atm and the arrogance is quite amusing......I wouldn't be rapt if I followed Essendon given your middle tier midfield and the age of it generally (Stanton, McVeigh, Watson....) and the key positions that will be vacated by the veterans sooner rather than later.

Carlton and Collingwood should both make the 8 but neither of these teams will flourish until 2010/11. Bookmark it. Next week? I think Carlton will win.

Age of our midfield? We have no impending retirements in this area given our oldest midfielder Mark McVeigh turned 28 this year but he has done little this year. Our oldest midfielder to make an impact this season has been Lovett who is 26. All the other midfielders are under 25. So no real worries there.

Anyway back on topic A win or loss will be fairly big here but the loser will only be a game or 2 off the pace so it would not be panic stations yet.

 

[dave_27]

Do you have the like of Wellingham and Beams on your list, at their ages? Name them.

Since you ask, Houli and Zaharakis.

Same age and shown no less.

So do you want to actually address what I asked specifically or not? I'm guessing not for obvious reasons, fair enough.

Ok then..

Just noticed that they are 23 and 24 respectively. So I stand by what I've said. Given how far off your team is generally and given the ages of your prime movers (and the absolute quality of them) I wouldn't be excited.

Your all having a pop (directly or indirectly) at Carlton and Collingwood but Collingwood have Swan (25) Pendlebury, Thomas, Beams, Sidebottom, Wellingham etc (all 21 or under) well.....yeah I wouldn't be having a pop at anyone.

You brought up Collingwoods midfield in comparison to Essendon in the future and have been exposed.

3 of 5 Collingwoods main midfielders in 2009 (Lockyer, Obree, Davis) will be retired in 3 years.

Should I mention Ben Johnson aswell?

 

[Valve Bounce]

OK! guys! Just thought I'd give you my gut feeling about tomorrow night. I think Collingwood will win. If they don't, feel free to bash me afterwards.

 

[Winner]

I wouldn't be rapt if I followed Essendon given your middle tier midfield and the age of it generally (Stanton, McVeigh, Watson....) and the key positions that will be vacated by the veterans sooner rather than later.

??? You do realise Essendon played the youngest team ever recorded on Friday night and beat the reigning premiers and our bogey team by 44 points? You do realise that the only "old" KPP player, or old player in general, that we had playing was Matthew Lloyd?

I don't think you do realise.

 

[Forrest Gimp]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572845

Confirmed!!!

I love reading Parrot's posts. Nick Stevens an elite midfielder

 

[Galactico]

Since you ask, Houli and Zaharakis.

Same age and shown no less.

You brought up Collingwoods midfield in comparison to Essendon in the future and have been exposed.

3 of 5 Collingwoods main midfielders in 2009 (Lockyer, Obree, Davis) will be retired in 3 years.

Should I mention Ben Johnson aswell?

Zaharakis I give you. Houli? Yeah.....don't think so. Beams has played a handful of games, Wellingham a few more and both have shown far more than Houli.

I've been exposed? Collingwood's 3 of 5 main midfielders of 2009 are the 3 you mentioned? LMFAO.

Davis - yes definetly. Will he be retired at 30? Doubt it. He's in his prime and the form of his life. Will McVeigh retire in 2 years then?

Add Pendlebury, Swan, Beams and Dale Thomas and there have been our 5 main midfielders. Lockyer is a utility (a link player) and O'bree still used in clearance situations through rotations. Ben Johnson? You make me laugh, since when was he a midfielder? HBF maybe.....get confused easily?

In any case, your going round in circles. I simply mentioned that the ages, consistency and quality of your main midfielders going forward (McVeigh, Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, Lovett) would be worrying if I were an Essendon supporter. They are all (or should be) roughly in their prime.

No one in that group is under 23. Whereas we have at least 3 that have played the majority of this year already, with others following closely. So does Carlton, so do most teams. That was my point.

Hey, its a Collingwood and Carlton thread but if Essendon supporters are going to get on their high horses over 2 or 3 somewhat fortunate and well timed wins after 5 or so years of absolute rubbish then, well, expect the hard questions thrown your way.

 

[Galactico]

??? You do realise Essendon played the youngest team ever recorded on Friday night and beat the reigning premiers and our bogey team by 44 points? You do realise that the only "old" KPP player, or old player in general, that we had playing was Matthew Lloyd?

I don't think you do realise.

Did I say Essendon have no youthful players? No

I was specifically talking about your midfield, their ages and where they are in their careers. I look at the midfield of any team as a very important aspect of building a premiership challenging side, hence why I mentioned it.

 

[scruffydog]

We should change the name of this thread to 'Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon fans argue with each other about random stuff.'

Meanwhile:

..theoretically we could be 7-0 right now.

lmao.

Theoretically, Collingwood could have won every flag in the AFL since 1990.

 

[Jono B]

Zaharakis I give you. Houli? Yeah.....don't think so. Beams has played a handful of games, Wellingham a few more and both have shown far more than Houli.

I've been exposed? Collingwood's 3 of 5 main midfielders of 2009 are the 3 you mentioned? LMFAO.

Davis - yes definetly. Will he be retired at 30? Doubt it. He's in his prime and the form of his life. Will McVeigh retire in 2 years then?

Add Pendlebury, Swan, Beams and Dale Thomas and there have been our 5 main midfielders. Lockyer is a utility (a link player) and O'bree still used in clearance situations through rotations. Ben Johnson? You make me laugh, since when was he a midfielder? HBF maybe.....get confused easily?

In any case, your going round in circles. I simply mentioned that the ages, consistency and quality of your main midfielders going forward (McVeigh, Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, Lovett) would be worrying if I were an Essendon supporter. They are all (or should be) roughly in their prime.

No one in that group is under 23. Whereas we have at least 3 that have played the majority of this year already, with others following closely. So does Carlton, so do most teams. That was my point.

Hey, its a Collingwood and Carlton thread but if Essendon supporters are going to get on their high horses over 2 or 3 somewhat fortunate and well timed wins after 5 or so years of absolute rubbish then, well, expect the hard questions thrown your way.

Why are you so keen to call Thomas a midfielder and Lockyer a utility? I distinctly remember that Thomas played as a defensive forward on Drummond and Dempsey in rounds 4 and 5, this is very much a role that a flanker/utility would take.

On other points, since when is Wellingham a world beater? He has had 1 very good game this year and did little last year. Houli may not have started in outstanding fashion this year but he was far better in 2008 than Wellingham.

I have no worries with Watson, Stanton and Winderlich who have all improved this year. The only mid that you can claim to be younger and better performed than this trio this year is Pendlebury. So I don't see any reason to press the panic button.

 

[dave_27]

Zaharakis I give you. Houli? Yeah.....don't think so. Beams has played a handful of games, Wellingham a few more and both have shown far more than Houli.

How has Wellingham shown more than Houli?

Atleast Houli has him covered in every stat average so far, has a Rising Star nomination and a Brownlow vote. Wellingham has zero from a similar amount of games.

Add Pendlebury, Swan, Beams and Dale Thomas and there have been our 5 main midfielders. Lockyer is a utility (a link player) and O'bree still used in clearance situations through rotations.

Beams and Thomas main midfielders are they?

Leading disposals in 2009.... Swan, Pendlebury, Davis, Lockyer and O'Bree.

Leading inside 50's.......Swan, Pendlebury, Davis and Lockyer among others all ahead of Thomas and Beams.

Leading clearances..... Swan, Pendlebury, Davis, Lockyer, Obree and Toovey all ahead of Beams and Thomas.

Where are Thomas and Beams, the "main midfielders"?

In any case, your going round in circles. I simply mentioned that the ages, consistency and quality of your main midfielders going forward (McVeigh, Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, Lovett) would be worrying if I were an Essendon supporter. They are all (or should be) roughly in their prime.

No, you put down Essendons midfield because Watson and Stanton were 23 and 24 and then proceeded to compare Collingwoods dads army midfield favourably to Essendon.

No one in that group is under 23. Whereas we have at least 3 that have played the majority of this year already, with others following closely. So does Carlton, so do most teams. That was my point.

Really? So what do you call Lonergan, Zaharakis, Hocking, Myers all under 23 and up until a week ago Stanton was 22.

Try again.