Collingwoods reverse bandwagon

[Scottabe_pendles]

Every team has a bandwagon, but "our" following is so big that we even have a reverse bandwagon of flogs who like to jump on board when the team is losing and bash on everything (particularly the coach) without reasoned or logical argument.

Bandwagon = All our players are the best we're winners
Our reverse bandwagon = Sack everyone - have them taken out to pasture we finished 6th on the ladder and firing everyone will make us win suddenly? - the teams fitness, lack of effort, mental lapses are all coaches fault (I'm sure someone can help add to the list)

I understand people saying we shouldn't accept mediocrity from where we are, but surely there has to be some reasoned argument not just spouting about the fact that we aren't as good as 2011 (which we faltered second half of the year anyway).

This board has gone crazy since we lost to port - who are a solid team and have weapons that work well against us (similar to GC), we obviously have problems that need fixing and firing everyone and trading our whole team isn't going to fix the issues.

People obviously love a vent but its getting chaotic when everything that goes on at the club is now Buckley's fault (Walsh, Buttifant) and the guy isn't perfect - his coaching and the selections weren't fantastic in the final vs port (overstatement) but its a combination of a lot of things going on at the club and firing him isn't going to make an immediate fix. Or is everything the fault of one or two players in our 22 that made errors in the final - Guess you could blame the loss on Scott Pendlebury, he dropped a few overhead marks didn't he? (oh wait no its all Maxwell, Brown and Sidebottoms fault - trade them!!!)

Everyone needs to stop before posting and think about how dumb some of the commentary has become - saying that we are 100% better than port in every area is dumb, saying that we deserved to beat them because we're purely a better team is dumb. We deserve nothing. Port are on the rise and really improving, we are in a bit of a flat spot without any real spark at the moment (and tbh there isn't anyone on our list with that aspect to their game)

Maybe I should try to ignore the people who only seem to be about when we lose so they can bash on everyone from top to bottom without an actual solution other than fire/trade a team but jeez is it going to be like this for the next few weeks or will these people slowly disappear from the reverse bandwagon as the offseason wears on, only to pop back up next year (unless we go undefeated)

 

[DaVe86]

great post.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I have to disagree with you. If this is not the time to suggest wholesale changes at the club of coaches, players and others, I don't know when is the right time. You exaggerate what is occurring on our board. There are not that many posters calling for Buckley's sacking, though there are several suggesting the assistant coaches could be improved upon, which seems fair enough. Buttifant and Walsh have jumped ship and our arch enemy, Carlton, has won a stirring victory under our old coach and sailed past us on the ladder. Tony Shaw believes Bucks is going to try to change the culture at the club, though as is pointed out elsewhere, this may mean no more than moving on players who'd have been retired anyway.

What is wrong with a diversity of opinion, even from Bring Back Brad and THATSGOLD etc? Surely we can cope with some extremists in our midst. They seem balanced up anyway by posters who treat forum posts as submissions to a VCE clear thinking class and condemn speculation and rumour as non rational and unacceptable. If we can't speculate and air or even start rumours here, what is the point of us being here in the first place?

Loosen up a bit OP. The off season should deliver big changes at the club and if it doesn't, many of us will be demanding to know why not.

 

[dubber]

Everyone needs to stop before posting and think about how dumb some of the commentary has become

If everyone in real life stopped and thought before speaking then.....

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

By the way, OP, we finished 8th not 6th. Don't dress mutton up as lamb. We are a mediocre side judging from our final ladder position.

 

[sr36]

I think you've got to remember where we were at when Bucks took over. As McGuire pointed out, Bucks's reign would be considered a failure if his 3 years delivered anything less than one premiership. Basically, with one year to run, the best he can do is pass, but failure is looking much more likely. The really frustrating thing is that we are pissing away what should be a golden era.

 

[dubber]

By the way, OP, we finished 8th not 6th. Don't dress mutton up as lamb. We are a mediocre side judging from our final ladder position.

I dare say teams finishing 5-8 are all mediocre teams.

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

I have to disagree with you. If this is not the time to suggest wholesale changes at the club of coaches, players and others, I don't know when is the right time. You exaggerate what is occurring on our board. There are not that many posters calling for Buckley's sacking, though there are several suggesting the assistant coaches could be improved upon, which seems fair enough. Buttifant and Walsh have jumped ship and our arch enemy, Carlton, has won a stirring victory under our old coach and sailed past us on the ladder. Tony Shaw believes Bucks is going to try to change the culture at the club, though as is pointed out elsewhere, this may mean no more than moving on players who'd have been retired anyway.

What is wrong with a diversity of opinion, even from Bring Back Brad and THATSGOLD etc? Surely we can cope with some extremists in our midst. They seem balanced up anyway by posters who treat forum posts as submissions to a VCE clear thinking class and condemn speculation and rumour as non rational and unacceptable. If we can't speculate and air or even start rumours here, what is the point of us being here in the first place?

Loosen up a bit OP. The off season should deliver big changes at the club and if it doesn't, many of us will be demanding to know why not.

Not the rumors and speculations that concern me its the irrational arguments coming up.
I'd say there are probably 10 or so posters bleating on every post for Buckley's head at the moment - turning everything to a fire Buckley, or blame Maxwell, trade Brown because he cant stop Buddy/Cameron/Tippett

Okay so Buckley has a year on his contract - let it play out thats not going to change
Maxwell's situation will sort itself now - no more games so lets see what the club decides (and again im in the party that says stand him off as captain and let his contract run the year)
Trade Brown - Okay - lets get in that athletic defender who's available that can stop Buddy and Cameron (shouldn't complain about this really trade speculation is okay each to their own on that)

the list goes on with things like this - We have a trade section, we have a list management section, we have a Dale Thomas section, I believe there is an assistant coach section? yet EVERY thread is hijacked with people opinions on their personal gripe.

Cant open a thread at the moment (Make it an actual objective) without Buckley being blamed for someones failing

All in all - we are turning into the Herald Sun on here - when we win we have the bandwagon when we lose we're acting like Matthew Lloyd (insert "The sky is falling meme" or "think of the children meme" here)

Yep we cant win it this year and yep we have some really good players in their prime but there is so little 'constructive' going on and more just bashing everything and everyone

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I can assure the OP that if this board was turning into a Herald Sun I'd be one of the first out of here.

 

[loki04]

If everyone in real life stopped and thought before speaking then.....

No campaigner would have anything to say?

 

[dubber]

No silly would have anything to say?

The world would become a boring place...

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

I think you've got to remember where we were at when Bucks took over. As McGuire pointed out, Bucks's reign would be considered a failure if his 3 years delivered anything less than one premiership. Basically, with one year to run, the best he can do is pass, but failure is looking much more likely. The really frustrating thing is that we are pissing away what should be a golden era.

Teams promise things all the time - 95% of these don't come to fruition. It's not like the club is trying not to win a premiership, they're trying to change the setup to be in a position to do so and to make us a sustainably good/great side like Geelong.Yet our players from outside perspective other than a select few might be a tad overrated? (do you agree?)

We were good in 2011, really good. But even that year we started having real problems closing games and the spark was dead in certain areas. yes i know everyone will chuck out the old 19/3? adage, but then again Sydney has rebuilt with great effect, Hawthorn has gone to another level as has Fremantle. We're still round about there - we aren't that much better or worse off than Geelong at the moment I'd say - yet I would go as far as saying their matchwinners (Selwood, Enright, Taylor, Bartel) are better than our match winners (Pendlebury, Beams, Cloke, Swan)

 

[DaVe86]

It is rubbish that Carlton have sailed past us.

They may finish higher, but they are a lot further behind us that you think. Remember we beat them twice this year.

We also finished 3 games ahead and 3 spots higher on the ladder. They just had a remarkable day against a side that choked.

Remember they were downby 40 points against Port last week as well until the Power turned their focus onto the week ahead and took the foot off the pedal.

They have had very little development in terms of players and debutants and they were reliant on older guys like Judd, Simpson, Waite, Scotland and Betts.

I don't think they have sailed past us at all...which is a huge achievement considering the amount of number 1 picks they have had

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

I dare say teams finishing 5-8 are all mediocre teams.

Agreed Dubber - but I'd also say at times a few of the top four teams play like a 5-8 team and us, Richmond and even port when it suits them play games/quarters as a top 4 team - Geelong without Enright dont look nearly as threatening (particular because Jimmy has to go back to HB at times) and overall dont look as threatening (waiting for their fans in two years to have a tantrum like ours because they only lost 4 games this year and that should just go on forever!!)

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

It is rubbish that Carlton have sailed past us.

They may finish higher, but they are a lot further behind us that you think. Remember we beat them twice this year.

We also finished 3 games ahead and 3 spots higher on the ladder. They just had a remarkable day against a side that choked.

Remember they were downby 40 points against Port last week as well until the Power turned their focus onto the week ahead and took the foot off the pedal.

They have had very little development in terms of players and debutants and they were reliant on older guys like Judd, Simpson, Waite, Scotland and Betts.

I don't think they have sailed past us at all...which is a huge achievement considering the amount of number 1 picks they have had

Plus the style of play both Richmond and Carlton plays always plays into the Blues hands - Carlton has beaten them what 8/9 times - every team has their bogie side - I actually think with the way Port plays they are like that for us, we need to change our game against them (and I think it will start happening against Gold Coast in the short term as well)

Because they end up higher after a finals win against a team that out of every finalist they would want to meet they're suddenly sailed past us is a silly call

 

[RuFiO]

The world would become a boring place...

But then there'd be world peace...

Well it's good to know that we're better than Carlton at least. Hopefully they give out a cup for that too.

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

By the way, OP, we finished 8th not 6th. Don't dress mutton up as lamb. We are a mediocre side judging from our final ladder position.

Would it matter if we were fifth, sixth, seventh or eighth? Hell we're better off 8th than 4th if we aren't good enough we aren't good enough - we have a great opportunity to improve this offseason through drafts and trades and Buckley to continue to work on the gameplan that will compete with Hawthorn. Which I presume is his overall goal in where the team is going - to be able to compete with anyone,anytime, anywhere - - Clarkson has built one, it took a little while (OMFG HAWKS SHOULD HAVE FIRED HIM AFTER 2011)

 

[MyManLynch]

Fantastic post OP. Agree 100%
Just get these pesky finals out of the way & roll on trade & draft asap.
I don't even bother reading the majority of the BS (IMO) posts.
I find it embarrassing for the CFC to have so many supporters that actually have no idea what it takes to run a football club & seem to consistently run negative campaigns against our club, it's employees & methods, thinking they no better than the professionals employed by the club. Gives BF & Pies supporters a bad wrap.

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

But then there'd be world peace...

Well it's good to know that we're better than Carlton at least. Hopefully they give out a cup for that too.

Not sure if supporting my statements or arguing against - will like anyway because it made me laugh

 

[Chameleon75]

In relation to the op's overarching question regarding bandwagon vs reverse bandwagon, the premise of the question is false.

Who is more loyal, those who follow their leader of a cliff or those who warn their leader of the cliff ahead?

 

[joesph]

As a supporter of many years, I was disgusted to see players posting photos on Facebook from their hotel on the Gold coast after their loss. They were in party mode after a disgraceful performance. Buckley let them enjoy the weekend as a special treat for their performances.
Even after Saturdays loss Sidebottom was posting photos of himself partying on Facebook. The culture is one of party party party.

 

[MyManLynch]

In relation to the op's overarching question regarding bandwagon vs reverse bandwagon, the premise of the question is false.

Who is more loyal, those who follow their leader of a cliff or those who warn their leader of the cliff ahead?

Yes.....but who put the cliff there in the first place?

 

[cleomenes]

Those so keen to criticize Buckley because he played Keeffe forward this week should remember that Malthouse played the other Cloke at Centre half forward in a final. If these kinds of gamble pay off they are works of genius, and if they don't, they are indicators of incompetence in the minds of supporters. In reality, they are just gambles.

 

[DaVe86]

In relation to the op's overarching question regarding bandwagon vs reverse bandwagon, the premise of the question is false.

Who is more loyal, those who follow their leader of a cliff or those who warn their leader of the cliff ahead?

THe point is that we can't have threads everytime we win a game that say "Buckley is the Messiah...sucked in Malthouse"....and we can't have threads everytime we lose stating "Sack Buckley".

The same thread seems to get bumped every week. I refer to the one about "Eat Sh$& Buckley haters". Whenever we lose someone bumps it to say they were right...and whenever we win it is bumped to say someone else was right.


A good supporter is able to acknowledge the good with the bad and make positive contributions and discussions.

This year was clearly not the overwhelming success we had hoped...but it is also far from a write off. I think we did take a step back, but I think we will take 2 giant steps forward if we can stay healthy and work on a few areas such as skill and fitness. It may turn out to be the year we needed to have.

That doesn't mean we blindly follow Buckley. He is rightfully under pressure to deliver now. But I think taking into account everything, we are well placed now to make an assault on 2014.

 

[DaVe86]

Those so keen to criticize Buckley because he played Keeffe forward this week should remember that Malthouse played the other Cloke at Centre half forward in a final. If these kinds of gamble pay off they are works of genius, and if they don't, they are indicators of incompetence in the minds of supporters. In reality, they are just gambles.

Look, I think it was a bit of a mistake...but we were thrown out by the absence of Lynch and also by the fact that Port have a small forward line. Westhoff didn't spend much time up there either and they exploited us for pace.

I would've preferred to have subbed Nathan Brown or Reid than Elliott (but I think Elliott's substitutiong had a fair bit to do with injury). That way Reid could've gone into defence and open more space up for Cloke and Keefe or Reid.

Otherwise I probably would've switch Goldsack and Reid...or not played Maxwell because we were clearly too tall down back and up forward.

Anyway it is all hindsight now.

I don't think we were outcoached. We won most statistical categories. The problem was clearly ball use.