Collingwood's Rolling Best 22

[DaVe86]

This is my rolling 22 which will be constantly updated as time goes by. It is a reflection of the absolute best team we can possibly field at the present moment, assuming 100% fitness across the entire board.


END OF YEAR 2017

B: Goldsack, Dunn, Crisp
HB: Varcoe, Reid, Howe
C: Treloar, Pendlebury, Hoskin-Elliott
HF: Wells, Moore, Sidebottom
F: Fasolo, Cox, Elliott

R: Grundy, Adams, De Goey

I: Maynard, Greenwod, Langdon, Broomhead



VFL

B: Scharenberg, Schade, Ramsay
HB: Smith, McLarty, Sinclair
C: Daicos, Blair, Phillips
HF: Brown, White, Thomas
F: Kirby, Keeffe, Mayne

R: Lynch, Aish, Wills

I: Crockert, Sier, McCarthy, Mackie, Oxley












START OF YEAR 2017

BEST 22

B: Sinclair, Dunn, Goldsack
HB: Howe, Reid, Maynard
C: Wells, Treloar, Sidebottom
HF: Fasolo, White, De Goey
F: Mayne, Moore, Elliott

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Adams

I: Varcoe, Crisp, Greenwood, Aish


BACKUP TEAM

B: Scharenberg, Schade, Langdon
HB: Ramsey, McLarty, Smith
C: Phillips, Callum Brown, Broomhead
HF: Crocker, Keeffe, Hoskin-Elliott
F: Oxley, Cox, Blair

R: Lynch, Wills, Josh Thomas

I: Daicos, Sier, Kirby, McCarthy, Mackie

 

[THATSGOLD]

Going to be hard for Swan let's hope he isn't as slow as Maccaffer. I don't see Swan in the best team due to coming to the end and missing a whole year with a serious injury.
As for Elliott I think he would just be happy to be walking next year.

 

[surfer1]

I would swap Aish for Greenwood

 

[Saintly Viewed]

B Sier he could be our roller

 

[Quicky]

At the beginning of this season, I thought to myself that we had some serious depth, but I was very confused as to what our best structure was or what our best 22 looked like.

While the first half of the season was pretty much a write-off, I think the last month has been positive because I'm a lot clearer now as to what our best 22 is and what is our best structure.

For the remainder of the year, I think it is very important we continue to identify what our best 22 is, and keep trying to stabilise the side going forward. They need to play together consistently. I wouldn't be wasting time on guys now that are not going to form part of our best 22 going forward.

As the year goes on, I'm going to continually update this thread. The hope is to carry it through right to round one next year. Currently, my side is:

BEST 22

B: Marsh, Brown, Williams
HB: Howe, Reid, Sinclair
C: Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom
HF: Elliott, Moore, Varcoe
F: Fasolo, Cloke, White

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Greenwood

I: Maynard, De Goey, Swan, Crisp


BACKUP TEAM

B: Oxley, Frost, Ramsey
HB: Toovey, Goldsack, Langdon
C: Smith, Aish, Phillips
HF: Crocker, Gault, Broomhead
F: Blair, Cox, Macaffer

R: Witts, Wills, Goodyear

I: Scharenberg, Golds, Wyatt, Sier, Keeffe (suspended), Thomas (suspended)

Great thread. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what structure you think is best for this side, and why you chose certain players within it. I think the Greenwood and White selections may cause some criticism and discussion.

 

[mike123]

Going to be hard for Swan let's hope he isn't as slow as Maccaffer. I don't see Swan in the best team due to coming to the end and missing a whole year with a serious injury.
As for Elliott I think he would just be happy to be walking next year.

Swan was always quicker then Maccaffer at his best and hasn't done two knees. He'll definitely be quicker.

 

[Soaring Magpie]

Going to be hard for Swan let's hope he isn't as slow as Maccaffer. I don't see Swan in the best team due to coming to the end and missing a whole year with a serious injury.
As for Elliott I think he would just be happy to be walking next year.

Swanny on one leg would still be best 22, one of the all time greats

 

[mike123]

Senior

B: Jon Marsh ~ Nathan Brown ~ Marley Williams
HB: Jeremy Howe ~ Ben Reid ~ Ben Sinclair

C: Travis Varcoe ~ Taylor Adams ~ Scott Pendlebury
R: Brodie Grundy ~ Jordan De Goey ~ Adam Treloar

HF: Alex Fasolo ~ Travis Cloke ~ Steele Sidebottom
F: Mason Cox ~ Darcy Moore ~ Jamie Elliott

I/C: Jack Crisp ~ Brayden Maynard ~ Jarryd Blair ~ Tim Broomhead


Reserves

B: Mathew Scharenberg ~ Jack Frost ~ Jackson Ramsey
HB: Tom Langdon ~ Lachlan Keeffe ~ Adam Oxley

C: James Aish ~ Levi Greenwood ~ Josh Smith
R: Jarrod Witts ~ Rupert Wills ~ Mathew Goodyear

HF: Josh Thomas ~ Jessie White ~ Tom Phillips
F: Darean Wyatt ~ Corey Gault ~ Ben Crocker

I/C: Tyson Goldsack ~ Brayden Sier ~ Alan Toovey ~ Brent Macaffer

 

[DaVe86]

Great thread. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what structure you think is best for this side, and why you chose certain players within it. I think the Greenwood and White selections may cause some criticism and discussion.

I'd like to see Greenwood and White eventually replaced, but right now this is a rolling 22 and what the current best side is. I'd like to hope Aish and Mason Cox go ahead of him, but I wouldn't have it that way right now.

I also reckon Ramsey may go ahead of Williams or Sinclair, but we'll see how he recovers from his knee injury first. He just hasn't put enough consecutive games together yet to be cemented in that side.

Structure.

In relation to structure, I reckon we are pretty much spot on right now.

I think we work best with Grundy as the sole ruckman, and 3 key forwards (one of which back up rucks). I like the idea of Cox going forward because he can be a real threat as a ruckman. But that said, White can play a variety of roles and is very agile. I think the quicker the side the better...and Jessie is a good athlete. For me it's more a battle of Moore v Cox right now.

Defensively, I like the 3 talls, with Howe playing a third man up style. Most of the good sides are going in with 3 tall forward these days, so I think we need that 4th mid-sized defender to cover and offer assistance. He obviously has good skills and is a terrific overhead mark, so he is perfect for the role. If Scharenberg develops, maybe long term we can consider Howe up forward, but for now he is a permanent back. Howe is probably keeping Oxley out of the side. He is harder at it than Oxley and has more pace. Unless Oxley can toughen up, or alternatively add a bit of speed, I don't really see a role for him. I like him though, so maybe he needs to bulk up a lot more. I still feel as if Howe can offer something special up forward if he is confident and fully fit. But it will be up to one of Oxley or Scharenberg to really step up to fill the void. I don't have much faith in Langdon to be honest.

I think we should always go in with 7 defenders. We've often this year gone in with 8+, or alternatively only 6 with Taylor Adams playing back pocket. I think 7 is about right, and Adams can drop back as well.

I think Nathan Brown's spot may be under threat, but I think most sides still possess a monster full forward. I think he is a fair bit better than Jack Frost right now.


In relation to midfield, I feel as if we are one really classy and quick player short. The player I look towards is Tim Broomhead, because he is basically exactly what we are missing. Otherwise Phillips showed some nice signs. He isn't particularly quick, but he moves nicely.

 

[DaVe86]

Senior

B: Jon Marsh ~ Nathan Brown ~ Marley Williams
HB: Jeremy Howe ~ Ben Reid ~ Ben Sinclair

C: Travis Varcoe ~ Taylor Adams ~ Scott Pendlebury
R: Brodie Grundy ~ Jordan De Goey ~ Adam Treloar

HF: Alex Fasolo ~ Travis Cloke ~ Steele Sidebottom
F: Mason Cox ~ Darcy Moore ~ Jamie Elliott

I/C: Jack Crisp ~ Brayden Maynard ~ Jarryd Blair ~ Tim Broomhead


Reserves

B: Mathew Scharenberg ~ Jack Frost ~ Jackson Ramsey
HB: Tom Langdon ~ Lachlan Keeffe ~ Adam Oxley

C: James Aish ~ Levi Greenwood ~ Josh Smith
R: Jarrod Witts ~ Rupert Wills ~ Mathew Goodyear

HF: Josh Thomas ~ Jessie White ~ Tom Phillips
F: Darean Wyatt ~ Corey Gault ~ Ben Crocker

I/C: Tyson Goldsack ~ Brayden Sier ~ Alan Toovey ~ Brent Macaffer

You're putting the line through Dane Swan are you?

 

[THATSGOLD]

Swanny on one leg would still be best 22, one of the all time greats

Didak couldn't do it.

 

[THATSGOLD]

You're putting the line through Dane Swan are you?

Swan if he does play on has missed a whole year of footy with an injury you can't just expect him to pick up where he left off. He won't be the same.

 

[mike123]

You're putting the line through Dane Swan are you?

I remember Swan at the start of the year said he'd continue only if we're pushing for success so I'm not confidant he'll go on. If he does I'd pick him over one of Blair or Broomhead.

 

[DaVe86]

I remember Swan at the start of the year said he'd continue only if we're pushing for success so I'm not confidant he'll go on. If he does I'd pick him over one of Blair or Broomhead.

Yeah fair enough. I also think swanny is going to struggle.

I suppose though the purpose of this thread is to compile the rolling 22 which is going to be a fluid concept. My team will change week by week. Until I know where Swan stands in terms of his playing future, and until we see him in the pre-season, then it's hard to imagine a team without him.

Broomhead is the one I want to see come into the side. I think he just adds what we are missing. But he needs to prove himself first. I think Blair could be quite handy if we also have Fasolo and Elliott, otherwise I'd bring Aish into the side.

Obviously, this team is going to change dramatically once the off-season movements happen etc.

 

[Gone Critical]

I also reckon Ramsey may go ahead of Williams or Sinclair, but we'll see how he recovers from his knee injury first. He just hasn't put enough consecutive games together yet to be cemented in that side.

Structure.
Unless Oxley can toughen up, or alternatively add a bit of speed, I don't really see a role for him. I like him though, so maybe he needs to bulk up a lot more. I still feel as if Howe can offer something special up forward if he is confident and fully fit. But it will be up to one of Oxley or Scharenberg to really step up to fill the void. I don't have much faith in Langdon to be honest.



In relation to midfield, I feel as if we are one really classy and quick player short. The player I look towards is Tim Broomhead, because he is basically exactly what we are missing. Otherwise Phillips showed some nice signs. He isn't particularly quick, but he moves nicely.

These are 3 interesting calls that I have some varying views on.

1. Sinclair v Ramsay. Both cut down by injuries but when they have had the chance to string some games together have shown the pace and kicking ballance we need off HB. Agree this is a tough call and Marley , although slightly different style, competes for a similar spot. At least 1 spot for these three and probably 2. For now Sinclair has it but they are 3 players if they stay fit may all find a spot in the best 22.

2. Langdon v Oxley v Scharenberg. Howe at the moment has taken the spot that if fit is Langdons. He is a bit like Fasolo in he burst onto the scene unheralded and immediately became best 22. 1st 2 seasons excellent then injured in the 3rd. Slow start to 2016 coming off knee surgery in Dec but his last 2 full games got 27 and 26 possessions. He reads the play very well, excellent intercept mark, is brave and when he has th ball in hand has time ansd is rarely caught. Is still learning when to pick the best option but reckon that will evolve. Like Fas once he is back and fit people will remember the player he is. He is better than Oxley and Scharenberg is coming from a long way back and has only looked okay in the games he has played in the main.

For mine its a question of do we fit Langdon and Howe in the same team and if noy who goes out.

3. Broomhead. He has at VFL level the game we could use at AFL level but I have doubts he makes the bridge across. Like Karnesis in 2014-5 maybe a great VFL footballer who struggles with AFL. Once Eliott is back, Aish stays ahead, Howe maybe moves more wing/forward I dont see a spot for him. Has to go past Blair also and with the likes of Smith and Phillips showing more than he has he is well down the pecking order for mine. A tradable player if someone makes an offer and I reckon he might see better opportunities elsewhere also

 

[DAWESOME!!]

How does a rolling best 22 differ from the team we put on the park each week? Are we assuming no injuries and ignoring "short term form" issues?

 

[DAWESOME!!]

So, assuming that is what it is, my best 22 looks like this:
B: Marsh Brown Maynard
HB: Howe Reid Sinclair
C: Crisp Treloar Sidebottom
HF: Elliott Moore Varcoe
F: White Cloke Fasolo
Foll: Grundy Pendlebury Adams
I/C: Aish, Greenwood, De Goey, Williams

Pretty line ball between Williams and Blair

So second team is:
B: Toovey Frost Scharenberg
HB: Langdon Goldsack Smith
C: Phillips Goodyear Oxley
HF: Blair Gault Wyatt
F: Crocker Cox Macaffer
Foll: Witts Broomhead Wills
I/C: Sier, Golds, Keeffe (susp), Thomas (susp)

 

[1892]

I agree that one of a few positives of this year is that we've got a better view of our ideal structure and best 22 going forward. Last weeks side was one short of our best structure, Fasolo in for Macaffer changes that. I also like that we've got capable like for like replacements, which allows us to hold that structure provided we don't have mass injuries.

 

[HappyRed]

B: Marsh, Keefe, Williams
HB: Howe, Reid, Sinclair
C: Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom
HF: Elliott, Moore, Swan
F: Fasolo, Cloke or Cox*, White**

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Greenwood

I: Oxley (Or Blair), De Goey, Varcoe, Crisp

* Basically i believe we should be looking to get more games into Cox when possible, he's a smart dude and i can see him fast tracking with more games.

** Hopefully we have traded/delisted at end of year and get someone else who can do the job.

Don't rate Maynard at all really.

BACKUP TEAM

B: Maynard, Frost, Ramsey
HB: Toovey, Brown, Goldsack
C: Smith, Aish, Phillips
HF: Crocker, Gault, Broomhead
F: Blair, Cox***, Macaffer

R: Witts, Wills, Goodyear

I: Scharenberg, Golds, Wyatt, Sier, Langdon, Thomas (suspended)

*** would rather play him in the AFL.

 

[Quicky]

I'd like to see Greenwood and White eventually replaced, but right now this is a rolling 22 and what the current best side is. I'd like to hope Aish and Mason Cox go ahead of him, but I wouldn't have it that way right now.

I also reckon Ramsey may go ahead of Williams or Sinclair, but we'll see how he recovers from his knee injury first. He just hasn't put enough consecutive games together yet to be cemented in that side.

Structure.

In relation to structure, I reckon we are pretty much spot on right now.

I think we work best with Grundy as the sole ruckman, and 3 key forwards (one of which back up rucks). I like the idea of Cox going forward because he can be a real threat as a ruckman. But that said, White can play a variety of roles and is very agile. I think the quicker the side the better...and Jessie is a good athlete. For me it's more a battle of Moore v Cox right now.

I agree that we work best with 1 ruck and 3 key forwards. It also plays into the fact we have few dangerous small forwards. I really like Cox but the conundrum for me is he is a full forward, and I think the rhythm of the forward line can be unbalanced when your full forward is taking turns in the ruck. Maybe I misjudge that though. I think for me it is a really close call between White and Cox.

Defensively, I like the 3 talls, with Howe playing a third man up style. Most of the good sides are going in with 3 tall forward these days, so I think we need that 4th mid-sized defender to cover and offer assistance. He obviously has good skills and is a terrific overhead mark, so he is perfect for the role. If Scharenberg develops, maybe long term we can consider Howe up forward, but for now he is a permanent back. Howe is probably keeping Oxley out of the side. He is harder at it than Oxley and has more pace. Unless Oxley can toughen up, or alternatively add a bit of speed, I don't really see a role for him. I like him though, so maybe he needs to bulk up a lot more. I still feel as if Howe can offer something special up forward if he is confident and fully fit. But it will be up to one of Oxley or Scharenberg to really step up to fill the void. I don't have much faith in Langdon to be honest.

I think we should always go in with 7 defenders. We've often this year gone in with 8+, or alternatively only 6 with Taylor Adams playing back pocket. I think 7 is about right, and Adams can drop back as well.

I think Nathan Brown's spot may be under threat, but I think most sides still possess a monster full forward. I think he is a fair bit better than Jack Frost right now.

I don't see Howe as the third key defender. When possible we have tried to put him on the least dangerous forwards and maximise his offense. I see that more as Marsh's role, but depending on how the opposition structures their forward line (tall vs small).

I think you are harsh on Langdon, an many people under value him. At his best he will average 20ppg, 5+ marks per game. His ball use lets him down yet interestingly he doesn't kick too many clangers.

In relation to midfield, I feel as if we are one really classy and quick player short. The player I look towards is Tim Broomhead, because he is basically exactly what we are missing. Otherwise Phillips showed some nice signs. He isn't particularly quick, but he moves nicely.

Yeah I agree with that. We miss a line breaking territory gaining mid from the wing. I just wish Broomhead could string some footy together.

Regarding midfield, I see you have Greenwood as a starting on-baller. Is that because you see us structuring with a tagger? That's the only way I could see to justify that. But even so, I don't think Greenwood does enough. He doesn't win many clearances and when he does he can't kick so it's of no value. I would have Crisp ahead of him in a run with role, and any number of guys as clearance midfielders.

Where do you see our list needs and weaknesses?

 

[Quicky]

These are 3 interesting calls that I have some varying views on.

1. Sinclair v Ramsay. Both cut down by injuries but when they have had the chance to string some games together have shown the pace and kicking ballance we need off HB. Agree this is a tough call and Marley , although slightly different style, competes for a similar spot. At least 1 spot for these three and probably 2. For now Sinclair has it but they are 3 players if they stay fit may all find a spot in the best 22.

2. Langdon v Oxley v Scharenberg. Howe at the moment has taken the spot that if fit is Langdons. He is a bit like Fasolo in he burst onto the scene unheralded and immediately became best 22. 1st 2 seasons excellent then injured in the 3rd. Slow start to 2016 coming off knee surgery in Dec but his last 2 full games got 27 and 26 possessions. He reads the play very well, excellent intercept mark, is brave and when he has th ball in hand has time ansd is rarely caught. Is still learning when to pick the best option but reckon that will evolve. Like Fas once he is back and fit people will remember the player he is. He is better than Oxley and Scharenberg is coming from a long way back and has only looked okay in the games he has played in the main.

For mine its a question of do we fit Langdon and Howe in the same team and if noy who goes out.

3. Broomhead. He has at VFL level the game we could use at AFL level but I have doubts he makes the bridge across. Like Karnesis in 2014-5 maybe a great VFL footballer who struggles with AFL. Once Eliott is back, Aish stays ahead, Howe maybe moves more wing/forward I dont see a spot for him. Has to go past Blair also and with the likes of Smith and Phillips showing more than he has he is well down the pecking order for mine. A tradable player if someone makes an offer and I reckon he might see better opportunities elsewhere also

Yep I agree. There is still a lot of uncertainty regarding the best options for many of our positions.

I see it like this:

FB: (medium defender) ~ Brown ~ (back pocket)
HB: Howe ~ Reid ~ Sinclair
C: Sidebottom ~ Swan ~ Treloar
Foll: Grundy ~ Adams ~ Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo ~ Cloke ~ Varcoe
FF: Elliott ~ (full forward) ~ (second ruck/forward)
I/C: Crisp, DeGoey, (midfielder/forward), (seventh defender)

Medium defender: Could raffle it between Marsh and Langdon. Marsh better defensively with leadership. Langdon a greater ball winner. Both good in the air. I know you're no fan GC, but if Scharenberg can string some footy together he is also in the hunt. His 3rd, and 4th senior games (hitting 8+ marks) and winning plenty of footy were encouraging given how much football he has missed.

Back pocket: A really hot contest between Williams, Ramsay and Maynard. Can Williams return to form? Can we afford his wayward kicking? Can Ramsay stay fit? Can Maynard continue developing, especially his decision making?

The seventh defender means there are three positions for the above players.

Between full forward and our second ruck/forward there are two positions between Moore, White and Cox.

Midfielder/forward: I think ideally we would select someone who can hit the scoreboard. But we trend more towards pure midfielders with our list. This is the spot for Aish/Broomhead/Blair/Greenwood in my approximation.

 

[legendstatus]

Williams Brown Howe
Marsh Reid Scharenberg

Or

Keefe Reid Howe
Scharenberg Moore Williams


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Nuffsaid]

It's a good discussion. You see the likes of hawthorn where it's fairly well defined but I wonder under Buckley whether we will ever have a 'best 22' as he is so much about squad mentality. It's great theory but nothing beats game time to build chemistry.
For me, Ramsey gets the nod over Williams and Maynard (who I do rate).
I don't think you can carry Greenwood and Adams, and DeGoey in one side. Crisp is able to play shut-down so greenwood misses.
I have Swan in only because I cling to the hope.
White I concede has won me over somewhat, but Cox will fly past and is crucial in a 1 ruck structure. I think by Rd 1 Moore will be a lock. I wonder if you can play White as a utility that enables kpps to rotate?

Marsh Brown Sinclair
Howe Reid Ramsey
Varcoe Adams Sidebottom
Elliott Cloke Swan
Fasolo Moore Cox

Grundy Pendles Treloar

Langdon Crisp DeGoey White

 

[swiftdog]

Good thread. I'll post a full-team at some point but I think our forward-line going forward is certainly missing a pure small/crumbing forward. I think we've got 5 of the 6 basically locked-in at this point; Elliot and Fasolo are sure-things provided they're fit, three of Moore, Cloke, White and Cox with one playing back-up ruck also. Which leaves the gap for the crumbing forward. I don't really see Elliot or Fasolo as smalls and both certainly seem to like to lead rather than sit at the feet of the talls. I've noticed this year that Fasolo seems reluctant to snap at goal, whether he's following team orders or doesn't have the confidence (ok, h it seems like passing off isn't as high a percentage play as just having a crack. In years gone by the likes of Didak, Davis, Krak, Medhurst would back themselves in which is the element we're missing up there at the moment.

Blair and a mixture of midfield/forwards seem to be getting that role at the moment. I don't mind Blair in the role as he does provide pressure but I'm not sure he hits the scoreboard enough. Although, he's kicked some ripper goals over the last few weeks. The likes of Varcoe, Greenwood and De Goey tend to rotate through the half-forward line. Varcoe is dangerous up there but feel we're better off with his pace through the middle of the ground. Greenwood seems to be a decent kick at goal but similar to Varcoe, is probably better suited to being a bull in the midfield. Not so sure about De Goey in the forward line, seems to give himself good opportunity but execution at goal needs work. Then we've got guys not currently playing that could be that 6th forward. I've enjoyed watching Crocker play and think he's got some promise as a pure forward. A couple of years back I wanted Broomhead to be trained up as a forward as he has good goal sense, poor guy just needs to stay injury-free although it looks like he's more of another midfield/forward a la Varcoe, Greenwood, De Goey. Then of course, there's Swan. At the moment, he's probably the most dangerous of the player's listed as a forward but who knows where he's at.

I think the question comes down to, are we better off with a genuine small forward (Crocker, Blair, traded player) or running with an extra midfield/forward (Swan, De Goey, Greenwood, Varcoe, Broomhead)?

 

[kaistar]

Williams Brown Marsh
Sinclair Reid Howe
Siddebottom Treloar Crisp
Elliot Cloke Swan
White Moore Fasolo
Grundy Pendelbury Adams
De Goey Maynard Varcoe Shcarenberg
Emergency:
Aish Langdon Greenwood