Collingwood's Rolling Best 22

[Saintly Viewed]

That's a really strong reserves team. Add the VFL boys in there and they should definitely be going for the flag.

Everyone fit, you're pretty much right.
I find our list is actually quite even and laden with strong medium level talent.
Overall even improved from last year's list.
Ball butchers getting culled etc.

But to really challenge for the big prizes we need more elite or close to elite players.
Will some of our better juniors go up a few rungs to close to elite?
If so.... we will progress more so than past years.... that to me is the question

 

[Mooresome]

B. Smith~Dunn~Maynard
HB. Howe~Reid~Varcoe
C. Wells~Adams~Sidebottom
HF. Whe~Moore~Fasolo
F. Mayne~Cox~Elliott
R.Grundy~Pendles~Treloar
B.Greenwood~Crisp~De-Goey~Aish
can see Keeffe,Crocker,Phillips,Ramsay,Shaz,Sinclair, pushing in to side

 

[Mooresome]

Everyone fit, you're pretty much right.
I find our list is actually quite even and laden with strong medium level talent.
Overall even improved from last year's list.
Ball butchers getting culled etc.

But to really challenge for the big prizes we need more elite or close to elite players.
Will some of our better juniors go up a few rungs to close to elite?
If so.... we will progress more so than past years.... that to me is the question

Would love to see Maynard,Degoey,Aish,smith have improved year they were all solid at end of last season so could make the difference between finishing
top 8 or top 4

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Would love to see Maynard,Degoey,Aish,smith have improved year they were all solid at end of last season so could make the difference between finishing
top 8 or top 4

They esp De Goey are key on the whole.
Maynard I mark very highly.

Then there is Moore and Grundy continuing their elite potential.

Grundy steal of his draft year

 

[Countrypie]

They esp De Goey are key on the whole.
Maynard I mark very highly.

Then there is Moore and Grundy continuing their elite potential.

Grundy steal of his draft year

And then their is Cox.... I honestly don't think any of us have realized the potential upside in the big fellah.
We tend to write him off as being a bit of a hyped up feel good story. If he improves half as much this year as he did last year, he, Moore, Fasolo Elliott and Mayne are going to cause massive headaches. It's a big if, but it December and I can dare to dream.

 

[DaVe86]

Hi guys,

I put this thread up at the start of the year. It was interesting to see how the team evolved throughout the year.

THis is my final lineup for the end of 2017


END OF YEAR 2017
B: Goldsack, Dunn, Crisp
HB: Varcoe, Reid, Howe
C: Treloar, Pendlebury, Hoskin-Elliott
HF: Wells, Moore, Sidebottom
F: Fasolo, Cox, Elliott

R: Grundy, Adams, De Goey

I: Maynard, Greenwod, Langdon, Broomhead



VFL

B: Scharenberg, Schade, Ramsay
HB: Smith, McLarty, Sinclair
C: Daicos, Blair, Phillips
HF: Brown, White, Thomas
F: Kirby, Keeffe, Mayne

R: Lynch, Aish, Wills

I: Crockert, Sier, McCarthy, Mackie, Oxley


A few points:

1. Maynard to play midfield
2: Reid and Moore to rotate as required. With Cox cementing a spot, it really means Reid goes back
3. Last spot is really a battle between Phillips and Broomhead. But with a full midfield, Phillips probably doesn't add much different to what someone like Sidebottom does, whereas Broomhead is a tad cleaner and quicker.
4. With Reid going back, Scharenberg just loses his place....but overall a really impressive year and I came close to trying to squeeze him in. Will play a lot of footy in 2018 we hope.


With Maynard and De Goey really showing their wares in the midfield, we have some real bulls in there. Along with Adams, these 3 can cause real damage. It means Pendlebury and Wells can pretty much just float, while Treloar and WHE can play outside on a wing. Sidebottom can also play as a half forward flanker.

 

[Knightmare]

Hi guys,

I put this thread up at the start of the year. It was interesting to see how the team evolved throughout the year.

THis is my final lineup for the end of 2017


END OF YEAR 2017
B: Goldsack, Dunn, Crisp
HB: Varcoe, Reid, Howe
C: Treloar, Pendlebury, Hoskin-Elliott
HF: Wells, Moore, Sidebottom
F: Fasolo, Cox, Elliott

R: Grundy, Adams, De Goey

I: Maynard, Greenwod, Langdon, Broomhead



VFL

B: Scharenberg, Schade, Ramsay
HB: Smith, McLarty, Sinclair
C: Daicos, Blair, Phillips
HF: Brown, White, Thomas
F: Kirby, Keeffe, Mayne

R: Lynch, Aish, Wills

I: Crockert, Sier, McCarthy, Mackie, Oxley


A few points:

1. Maynard to play midfield
2: Reid and Moore to rotate as required. With Cox cementing a spot, it really means Reid goes back
3. Last spot is really a battle between Phillips and Broomhead. But with a full midfield, Phillips probably doesn't add much different to what someone like Sidebottom does, whereas Broomhead is a tad cleaner and quicker.
4. With Reid going back, Scharenberg just loses his place....but overall a really impressive year and I came close to trying to squeeze him in. Will play a lot of footy in 2018 we hope.


With Maynard and De Goey really showing their wares in the midfield, we have some real bulls in there. Along with Adams, these 3 can cause real damage. It means Pendlebury and Wells can pretty much just float, while Treloar and WHE can play outside on a wing. Sidebottom can also play as a half forward flanker.

AFL:
B: Tom Langdon Lynden Dunn Brayden Maynard
HB: Jeremy Howe Matthew Scharenberg Travis Varcoe
CEN: Steele Sidebottom Taylor Adams Daniel Wells
HF: Jordan De Goey Darcy Moore Tom Phillips
F: Alex Fasolo Ben Reid Jamie Elliott
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Adam Treloar
BENCH: Will Hoskin-Elliott Tim Broomhead Jack Crisp Mason Cox

Notes:
Maynard can rotate through the mids.
Varcoe can rotate hb/wing/hf.
Adams for short periods can push back if needed for rotations.
Sidebottom and Wells can rotate mid/fwd.
DeGoey and Phillips can push through mids.
Reid can swing forward/back to accommodate Cox. A lot would depend on matchups whether we feel too tall up forward or need more height down back.
Crisp can be a pure utility who can fill holes - back/mid/fwd.
Broomhead as a fwd/mid.
Hoskin-Elliott as a mid/fwd.
Cox would mostly be used at FF and sometimes rotating into the ruck depending on how Moore is performing.

Ideally Dunn can be passed by another better key defender, but for the time being Dunn is solid and a worthwhile leader down back.
Broomhead needs to elevate his game but on attributes is here while the likes of Brown/Daicos develop and pass him by.
Crisp is handy but he's another who can hopefully be surpassed.

Leftovers/VFL:
B: Tyson Goldsack Lachlan Keeffe Jackson Ramsay
HB: James Aish Henry Schade Ben Sinclair
CEN: Callum Brown Rupert Wills Josh Smith
HF: Adam Oxley Chris Mayne Josh Daicos
F: Jarryd Blair Ben Crocker Kayle Kirby
FOLL: Jesse White Levi Greenwood Josh Thomas
BENCH: Sam McLarty Brayden Sier Mitch McCarthy Liam Mackie Max Lynch

--
List plan:
Addressing key forward needs:
Option one: Get Tom Lynch (GC) either by trade this year or as a free agent next offseason. He's special and would be a great compliment for Moore.
Option two: The other option is trading into a top three pick in 2018. In 2018 there are two special key forwards - Jack Lukosius and Max King. Lukosius is another Nick Riewoldt both stylistically and on quality of play. Max King on the other hand is a 200cm+ contested marking monster but with mobility - he's something Jon Patton though a slightly taller version and more athletic version.

Addressing key defence needs: This is a draft we may get one. McLarty I fit into the chance to develop category and he is one to continue watching for the growth of. Through the draft, I feel there will be someone, somewhere who represents value with a lot key defence depth in this years draft. Oscar Clavarino and Harry Petty are two if available with our second pick I'd be advocating. Otherwise if someone slides late or into the rookie draft I'd also consider that route. With the development of Scharenberg down back, Jake Lever is now a firm no from me. First round there are also a few key defenders, though that pick for me is a best available selection regardless of position.

Do we need a crumbing forward? We need to see what Kirby can become. He might be the answer. Brown and Daicos as other rotational forwards we also need to watch for the development of. Also with Nick Daicos coming as a father son (he's projecting as a first round choice when eligible). I feel the need is overall reduced, but if we see someone we evaluate as a best available selection who we feel is a sure best 22 player. Go for it.

Someone who can generate drive: We need numbers both down back and on the wing. As a cheap option, Trent McKenzie is one I could see being available if not as a delisted free agent, probably for a late, nothing pick. He can kick over zones and get the ball moving in a hurry, he's quick and for mine has been utilised wrongly by Gold Coast for years. Place him on a wing or back flank (do not play him deep in defence - and he won't get exploited 1v1 and be much more damaging with more touches). He's a sort we lack and need and he's someone you just ask to be himself and play to his strengths and he'll do what he does which is plenty - if he can stay healthy. Otherwise, I'd explore options late/rookie who can generate drive and add skill and/or speed to our list. For a name through the draft, if Ed Richards (Oakleigh/Carey) is available late, he might be an example of someone we consider as a running hb who can use the ball pretty well.

 

[DaVe86]

AFL:
B: Tom Langdon Lynden Dunn Brayden Maynard
HB: Jeremy Howe Matthew Scharenberg Travis Varcoe
CEN: Steele Sidebottom Taylor Adams Daniel Wells
HF: Jordan De Goey Darcy Moore Tom Phillips
F: Alex Fasolo Ben Reid Jamie Elliott
FOLL: Brodie Grundy Scott Pendlebury Adam Treloar
BENCH: Will Hoskin-Elliott Tim Broomhead Jack Crisp Mason Cox

Notes:
Maynard can rotate through the mids.
Varcoe can rotate hb/wing/hf.
Adams for short periods can push back if needed for rotations.
Sidebottom and Wells can rotate mid/fwd.
DeGoey and Phillips can push through mids.
Reid can swing forward/back to accommodate Cox. A lot would depend on matchups whether we feel too tall up forward or need more height down back.
Crisp can be a pure utility who can fill holes - back/mid/fwd.
Broomhead as a fwd/mid.
Hoskin-Elliott as a mid/fwd.
Cox would mostly be used at FF and sometimes rotating into the ruck depending on how Moore is performing.

Ideally Dunn can be passed by another better key defender, but for the time being Dunn is solid and a worthwhile leader down back.
Broomhead needs to elevate his game but on attributes is here while the likes of Brown/Daicos develop and pass him by.
Crisp is handy but he's another who can hopefully be surpassed.

Leftovers/VFL:
B: Tyson Goldsack Lachlan Keeffe Jackson Ramsay
HB: James Aish Henry Schade Ben Sinclair
CEN: Callum Brown Rupert Wills Josh Smith
HF: Adam Oxley Chris Mayne Josh Daicos
F: Jarryd Blair Ben Crocker Kayle Kirby
FOLL: Jesse White Levi Greenwood Josh Thomas
BENCH: Sam McLarty Brayden Sier Mitch McCarthy Liam Mackie Max Lynch

--
List plan:
Addressing key forward needs:
Option one: Get Tom Lynch (GC) either by trade this year or as a free agent next offseason. He's special and would be a great compliment for Moore.
Option two: The other option is trading into a top three pick in 2018. In 2018 there are two special key forwards - Jack Lukosius and Max King. Lukosius is another Nick Riewoldt both stylistically and on quality of play. Max King on the other hand is a 200cm+ contested marking monster but with mobility - he's something Jon Patton though a slightly taller version and more athletic version.

Addressing key defence needs: This is a draft we may get one. McLarty I fit into the chance to develop category and he is one to continue watching for the growth of. Through the draft, I feel there will be someone, somewhere who represents value with a lot key defence depth in this years draft. Oscar Clavarino and Harry Petty are two if available with our second pick I'd be advocating. Otherwise if someone slides late or into the rookie draft I'd also consider that route. With the development of Scharenberg down back, Jake Lever is now a firm no from me. First round there are also a few key defenders, though that pick for me is a best available selection regardless of position.

Do we need a crumbing forward? We need to see what Kirby can become. He might be the answer. Brown and Daicos as other rotational forwards we also need to watch for the development of. Also with Nick Daicos coming as a father son (he's projecting as a first round choice when eligible). I feel the need is overall reduced, but if we see someone we evaluate as a best available selection who we feel is a sure best 22 player. Go for it.

Someone who can generate drive: We need numbers both down back and on the wing. As a cheap option, Trent McKenzie is one I could see being available if not as a delisted free agent, probably for a late, nothing pick. He can kick over zones and get the ball moving in a hurry, he's quick and for mine has been utilised wrongly by Gold Coast for years. Place him on a wing or back flank (do not play him deep in defence - and he won't get exploited 1v1 and be much more damaging with more touches). He's a sort we lack and need and he's someone you just ask to be himself and play to his strengths and he'll do what he does which is plenty - if he can stay healthy. Otherwise, I'd explore options late/rookie who can generate drive and add skill and/or speed to our list. For a name through the draft, if Ed Richards (Oakleigh/Carey) is available late, he might be an example of someone we consider as a running hb who can use the ball pretty well.

That's a shortish backline, but as you say you can swing Reid back so it works ok.

Interesting you have Shaz over Goldsack. I hope by end of 2018 my team reads the same. Right now, I have Goldsack ahead (based on the premise that this is a rolling 22, not a projection going forward).

Also, no room for Greenwood? Do you think we need to tag, or have you got someone else earmarked for the role? I reckon Tom Phillips could be an option given his elite endurance.

 

[Knightmare]

That's a shortish backline, but as you say you can swing Reid back so it works ok.

Interesting you have Shaz over Goldsack. I hope by end of 2018 my team reads the same. Right now, I have Goldsack ahead (based on the premise that this is a rolling 22, not a projection going forward).

Also, no room for Greenwood? Do you think we need to tag, or have you got someone else earmarked for the role? I reckon Tom Phillips could be an option given his elite endurance.

Scharenberg I may be jumping the gun on, but I feel he established himself late as our second best backman (behind Howe), with Maynard that other in the discussion. I also feel already he is a best 10 player on our list. Scharenberg is basically our own Jake Lever. Capable containing a forward (medium or tall) and takes a stack of intercept marks and provides rebound by foot, using it relatively efficiently. He's improving in a hurry and looks really comfortable at AFL level.

Goldsack my contrast while like Scharenberg he can play on talls and smalls, he doesn't intercept or provide any real rebound. He's more athletic and better tackler. But they're lower priority areas for me v intercepting and rebounding by position.

Greenwood I considered and he is someone I'd consider as an alternative to Broomhead. Greenwood is better performed than Broomhead, but Broomhead with that extra pace and skill I favour for team balance and to get some clean delivery going into the forward 50m. Maybe I'm not learning from my mistakes with Broomhead, but the talent I feel is too strong to ignore and not have in there. If Goldsack went into my squad, probably Crisp would miss, though I marginally favour Crisp for the versatility and extra offense.

Taggers I view as log priority and really matchup dependent. I'd bring Greenwood in any day to take on Joel Selwood. He just needs that perfect matchup as with Selwood where he can take a star of that magnitude and break even or win the matchup head to head. With this group, Crisp is the one I'd have as a situational tagger as needed as he has the height/size/athleticism to go with whoever. Sidebottom/Adams/Phillips/are others who can tag as required. Maybe De Goey also.

With Reid, whether he is forward or back I think depends a lot on matchups. If the other team has three genuine key forwards, unless you really want to create an option up forward, he needs to be back. If the other team has just the one good key forward and either a group of smalls/mediums or a second key forward that isn't so dominating in 1v1 contests, I'd keep Reid forward.

 

[RGpies]

Scharenberg I may be jumping the gun on, but I feel he established himself late as our second best backman (behind Howe), with Maynard that other in the discussion. I also feel already he is a best 10 player on our list. Scharenberg is basically our own Jake Lever. Capable containing a forward (medium or tall) and takes a stack of intercept marks and provides rebound by foot, using it relatively efficiently. He's improving in a hurry and looks really comfortable at AFL level.

Goldsack my contrast while like Scharenberg he can play on talls and smalls, he doesn't intercept or provide any real rebound. He's more athletic and better tackler. But they're lower priority areas for me v intercepting and rebounding by position.

Greenwood I considered and he is someone I'd consider as an alternative to Broomhead. Greenwood is better performed than Broomhead, but Broomhead with that extra pace and skill I favour for team balance and to get some clean delivery going into the forward 50m. Maybe I'm not learning from my mistakes with Broomhead, but the talent I feel is too strong to ignore and not have in there. If Goldsack went into my squad, probably Crisp would miss, though I marginally favour Crisp for the versatility and extra offense.

Taggers I view as log priority and really matchup dependent. I'd bring Greenwood in any day to take on Joel Selwood. He just needs that perfect matchup as with Selwood where he can take a star of that magnitude and break even or win the matchup head to head. With this group, Crisp is the one I'd have as a situational tagger as needed as he has the height/size/athleticism to go with whoever. Sidebottom/Adams/Phillips/are others who can tag as required. Maybe De Goey also.

With Reid, whether he is forward or back I think depends a lot on matchups. If the other team has three genuine key forwards, unless you really want to create an option up forward, he needs to be back. If the other team has just the one good key forward and either a group of smalls/mediums or a second key forward that isn't so dominating in 1v1 contests, I'd keep Reid forward.

A backline of Howe, sharenberg and Langdon - all intercept types, do you see this as a weapon? Or do you think it's to many of the same type and maybe a langdon finds himself unlucky in the future and is replaced by a more running type?

 

[Knightmare]

A backline of Howe, sharenberg and Langdon - all intercept types, do you see this as a weapon? Or do you think it's to many of the same type and maybe a langdon finds himself unlucky in the future and is replaced by a more running type?

Good question and one I've thought about myself much of this season.

It can be a major advantage, if, as per our 2010 side, the pressure up field is of that standard or nearing. Otherwise, the benefit is reduced. And at this stage, we don't have the personnel to play that style of game up the field as effectively as we once did.

Earlier in the season, I was toying with the idea of trading Langdon, with that very same idea that we probably do have too many of the same type, without many who are particularly damaging kicks or runners, or even 1v1 players. It feels though like it would be selling on a low with Langdon which is why I lean away from moving him unless a first round pick or equivalent can be had for him.

From a trade perspective, Josh Smith is the one I'd be offering, not regarding him as a best 22 player and feeling he has been largely over-utilised. Jackson Ramsay is another down back I'd offer up down back.

 

[DaVe86]

I think we can go relatively shorter down back if we have Reid and Moore in the team.

I think it took far too long this year to try Moore in defence when the game was on the line. With both Moore and Reid, we have 2 guys who can go back to calm the situation.

Personally, I like the feel of a backline with Reid, Howe, Scharenberg and Dunn. Langdon is the 5th to be considered. However, if we have Reid, Howe and Langdon, I like the idea of Goldsack in the side because we already have enough intercept markers, and Goldsack just offers something different which is relentless tackling and the ability to play on tall or smalls.

If you analyse it, we probably don't need to throw everything at Lever. If we can be smart and get him whilst still maintaining a first round pick then I'd do it, but I definitely wouldn't be offering $800K and 2 first rounders as some are suggesting. The bigger issue is fixing our forward line.

At the end of the day, we were ranked 1st in contested possession differential, and 1st in uncontested possession. So we are getting the football! We just need a forward line capable of finishing the work.