Collingwood's Rolling Best 22

[Horaceg]

Swanny on one leg would still be best 22, one of the all time greats

Yep, would love to see if we can get one more year out of him....Legend

 

[Vicky Park]

For the remainder of the year, I think it is very important we continue to identify what our best 22 is, and keep trying to stabilise the side going forward. They need to play together consistently.

This.

You see the likes of hawthorn where it's fairly well defined but I wonder under Buckley whether we will ever have a 'best 22' as he is so much about squad mentality. It's great theory but nothing beats game time to build chemistry.

And this.

We have been so unsettled this year, and used most of our squad throughout the season, that we have severely lacked stability and consistency. It seemed like for every game at the 'G this year, I was pointing out to friends that week's debutant.

Bucks mentioned this again last night on AFL 360, when referring to Hawthorn. They have absolute trust in each other, and awareness of what team mates will do on the field. The Doggies are starting to build this too. Its the missing ingredient for us, as I'm increasingly confident we have the cattle, they just need to play more, with each other.

So for the rest of 2016, I agree with DaVe86 that we need to aim for stability, rather than replacing a player after one poor game, which we tended to do earlier in the season. Case in point, people were calling for Aish to be dropped after an average game against GWS, but then he fired up against the Crows.

And Dave, Aish should be in your best 22. I dont think we'll be seeing Swan again.

 

[Quicky]

This.



And this.

We have been so unsettled this year, and used most of our squad throughout the season, that we have severely lacked stability and consistency. It seemed like for every game at the 'G this year, I was pointing out to friends that week's debutant.

Bucks mentioned this again last night on AFL 360, when referring to Hawthorn. They have absolute trust in each other, and awareness of what team mates will do on the field. The Doggies are starting to build this too. Its the missing ingredient for us, as I'm increasingly confident we have the cattle, they just need to play more, with each other.

So for the rest of 2016, I agree with DaVe86 that we need to aim for stability, rather than replacing a player after one poor game, which we tended to do earlier in the season. Case in point, people were calling for Aish to be dropped after an average game against GWS, but then he fired up against the Crows.

And Dave, Aish should be in your best 22. I dont think we'll be seeing Swan again.

Chemistry in the team is huge. We need a settled lineup. It really makes me think the biggest improvement we need to see is from our fitness and medical staff.

 

[Vicky Park]

Chemistry in the team is huge. We need a settled lineup. It really makes me think the biggest improvement we need to see is from our fitness and medical staff.

And selection too. Some weekly changes have been baffling this year. Then again, we don't have access to all the information and contributing factors which inform selection each week. It's been pretty cutthroat too, e.g. White and Cloke. Some tough calls.

 

[Horaceg]

This is what I hope the side will roll out in 2017 based on my view of potential, perceived talent and individual form.

FB: Marsh, Brown, Williams
HB: Sharenberg, Reid, Howe
C: Sidebottom, Adams, Aish
HF: Fasolo, Cloke, Varcoe
FF: Elliott, Moore, Swan

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Treloar

INT: DeGoey, Maynard, Crisp, Broomhead

EMG: Sinclair, Greenwood, Goodyear

 

[DAWESOME!!]

Baffled that people don't rate Greenwood.

 

[DaVe86]

Yep I agree. There is still a lot of uncertainty regarding the best options for many of our positions.

I see it like this:

FB: (medium defender) ~ Brown ~ (back pocket)
HB: Howe ~ Reid ~ Sinclair
C: Sidebottom ~ Swan ~ Treloar
Foll: Grundy ~ Adams ~ Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo ~ Cloke ~ Varcoe
FF: Elliott ~ (full forward) ~ (second ruck/forward)
I/C: Crisp, DeGoey, (midfielder/forward), (seventh defender)

Medium defender: Could raffle it between Marsh and Langdon. Marsh better defensively with leadership. Langdon a greater ball winner. Both good in the air. I know you're no fan GC, but if Scharenberg can string some footy together he is also in the hunt. His 3rd, and 4th senior games (hitting 8+ marks) and winning plenty of footy were encouraging given how much football he has missed.

Back pocket: A really hot contest between Williams, Ramsay and Maynard. Can Williams return to form? Can we afford his wayward kicking? Can Ramsay stay fit? Can Maynard continue developing, especially his decision making?

The seventh defender means there are three positions for the above players.

Between full forward and our second ruck/forward there are two positions between Moore, White and Cox.

Midfielder/forward: I think ideally we would select someone who can hit the scoreboard. But we trend more towards pure midfielders with our list. This is the spot for Aish/Broomhead/Blair/Greenwood in my approximation.

Interesting way of putting it and I agree with most of that.

I suppose at the moment I am not forecasting too much forward, and more indicating what our best 22 looks like right at this very point of time (assuming everyone is fit and in form). It will be a fluid concept which will probably change week to week.

This is why guys like Swan, White and Marley Williams hold their spots. However, if I forecast forward, I'd like to think Ramsey would come in for Williams, Aish for Swan and Cox for White.

 

[DaVe86]

Baffled that people don't rate Greenwood.

I agree. I think the tagger is back in vogue this year, and Greenwood has been doing a good job of it.

 

[DaVe86]

And selection too. Some weekly changes have been baffling this year. Then again, we don't have access to all the information and contributing factors which inform selection each week. It's been pretty cutthroat too, e.g. White and Cloke. Some tough calls.

I think selection has been an issue this year, although I think we are starting to see some more stability now.

Buckley did the right thing with Cloke, but made a mistake bringing him back for 1 week then dropping him again. He also made a mistake selecting 3 ruckmen against Melbourne, and a mistake picking Macaffer this week once Laird was omitted from the team.

Other than that, I think it has been good to pump games into as many players as we have, which has helped us work out what our best 22 actually is. I've seen enough of Crocker, Phillips, Cox and Smith as well to think they have good futures ahead.

 

[DaVe86]

Chemistry in the team is huge. We need a settled lineup. It really makes me think the biggest improvement we need to see is from our fitness and medical staff.

Yep I agree 100%

There will be people on here saying "Just play the kids". I don't agree with this. I think we need to play our best side every week so they keep gelling together.

Obviously there is no need to play sore or injured players...so if Pendles needs a rest then so be it. I'd like to give a few more opportunities to some of our more promising youngsters. But in general, I'd like to see our strongest side out on the park every week.

For me, that doesn't include Macaffer, Goldsack or Toovey.

 

[4#Didak#4]

I like this team:

B: Marsh, Brown, Sharenburg
HB: Howe, Reid, Sinclair
C: Varcoe, Adams, Sidebottom
HF: Elliott, Moore, Broomhead
F: Fasolo, Cloke, Cox

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Treloar

I: Williams, De Goey, Swan, Crisp


-Greenwood: He popped out in my musical chairs, mainly team balance and the need for better ball users. However, if Swanny doesn't get up its straight back in for GWood.
-Ramsay: I wanted him in but couldn't find a spot. Could easily be best 22 depending on match ups.
-Keefe: Sometimes Brown does not have a good match up and I think sometimes Keefe or even Frost would match up better. Keefe has a lot of work to do to prove himself but he is an alternate to Brown that can appeal.


Excellent depth and role players:
White, Goldsack, Frost, Oxley, Blair, Thomas

Need to prove their stripes but potential best 22 if they do:
Aish, Witts, Smith, Langdon, Wills, Phillps, Crocker, Goodyear, Sier, Wyatt

Probably past ever being best 22:
Toovey, Macaffer, Gault, Golds

 

[nahnah]

B: Williams, Brown, Sinclair
HB: Howe, Reid, Maynard
C: Treloar, Greenwood, Sidebottom
HF: Elliott, Moore, Varcoe
F: Fasolo, Cloke, White

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Adams

I: Marsh, De Goey, Swan, Crisp

Blair - On the cusp
Aish- On the cusp
Smith - On the cusp

Useable Depth:
Broomhead
Frost
Cox
Goldsack
Oxley
Phillips
Witts
Langdon
Phillips

Time to move on:
Caff
Keefe
Thomas
Gault

Unsure atm:
Goodyear
Crocker

No need to rush back:
Scharenberg
Ramsay

Sidenotes:
-Tough choosing between White and Cox for that forward spot, depends on the structure you want to go with.
-Tough choosing 2 of Greenwood, Degoey, Blair and Aish.. I went the first two but it'll change on form and natural improvement, also if Swanny retires a spot opens up for one.
-Did not consider Schaz or Ramsay who will probably play a lot of VFL early next season, I can see both being best 22 when fit..Ramsay already was before the injury.
- Willing to concede defeat to Gone Critical in regards to fasolo even if injury does prevent him from hitting 35+ goals, his improvement has been huge and i didnt see it coming

 

[Quicky]

Yep I agree. There is still a lot of uncertainty regarding the best options for many of our positions.

I see it like this:

FB: (medium defender) ~ Brown ~ (back pocket)
HB: Howe ~ Reid ~ Sinclair
C: Sidebottom ~ Swan ~ Treloar
Foll: Grundy ~ Adams ~ Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo ~ Cloke ~ Varcoe
FF: Elliott ~ (full forward) ~ (second ruck/forward)
I/C: Crisp, DeGoey, (midfielder/forward), (seventh defender)

Medium defender: Could raffle it between Marsh and Langdon. Marsh better defensively with leadership. Langdon a greater ball winner. Both good in the air. I know you're no fan GC, but if Scharenberg can string some footy together he is also in the hunt. His 3rd, and 4th senior games (hitting 8+ marks) and winning plenty of footy were encouraging given how much football he has missed.

Back pocket: A really hot contest between Williams, Ramsay and Maynard. Can Williams return to form? Can we afford his wayward kicking? Can Ramsay stay fit? Can Maynard continue developing, especially his decision making?

The seventh defender means there are three positions for the above players.

Between full forward and our second ruck/forward there are two positions between Moore, White and Cox.

Midfielder/forward: I think ideally we would select someone who can hit the scoreboard. But we trend more towards pure midfielders with our list. This is the spot for Aish/Broomhead/Blair/Greenwood in my approximation.

Using the formula above I would probably go:

FB: Marsh ~ Brown ~ Ramsay
HB: Howe ~ Reid ~ Sinclair
C: Sidebottom ~ Swan ~ Treloar
Foll: Grundy ~ Adams ~ Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo ~ Cloke ~ Varcoe
FF: Elliott ~ Cox ~ Moore
I/C: Crisp, DeGoey, Aish, Langdon

I found it really hard to pick the defence. Getting the right combination of defensive qualities with foot skills is difficult with Marsh and Williams poor users of the footy. Also, I would love to see us find a quality forward pocket to release Varcoe back into the midfield more often to add to our outside run. He can be used as a utility to provide energy where needed.

Whats apparent is that we have the bones of a good footy team there. We need to keep our list fit. We need our veterans to stay on board. We need another quality trade and draft year. And we could turn it around quicker than is predicted.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Using the formula above I would probably go:

FB: Marsh ~ Brown ~ Ramsay
HB: Howe ~ Reid ~ Sinclair
C: Sidebottom ~ Swan ~ Treloar
Foll: Grundy ~ Adams ~ Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo ~ Cloke ~ Varcoe
FF: Elliott ~ Cox ~ Moore
I/C: Crisp, DeGoey, Aish, Langdon

I found it really hard to pick the defense. Getting the right combination of defensive qualities with foot skills is difficult with Marsh and Williams poor users of the footy. Also, I would love to see us find a quality forward pocket to release Varcoe back into the midfield more often to add to our outside run. He can be used as a utility to provide energy where needed.

Whats apparent is that we have the bones of a good footy team there. We need to keep our list fit. We need our veterans to stay on board. We need another quality trade and draft year. And we could turn it around quicker than is predicted.

The defence is getting hard when you consider what is to come back in. On top of this we have Howe playing out of his skin and Sinclair really putting up his hand to nail a spot - two guys I really didn't see being in best 22 defence. It makes me question where we go with Marley. I am a big one for horses for courses, at times you need to change the make up to match the opposition strengths and weaknesses. I also think all good teams have great defences and I think we have the makings of one that is starting to have a real rebounding counter attacking edge to it. The key is those footskills in Howe/Reid/Scharenburg/Ramsay that simply weren't there a year or so ago.

We have a number of good jigsaw pieces just have to get them all on the table and put them together. If we can continue to add some class and footskills through smart trades and drafting we can certainly become dangerous very quickly.

 

[cfc19902010]

my best 22 if they are all available

williams brown ramsay

howe reid scharenberg

sidebottom treloar aish

fasolo cloke elliott

swan moore varcoe

grundy

pendles

adams

i/c greenwood white maynard crisp


just missed ...de goey langton sinkers blair marsh

 

[good4footy]

My main aim of selection was to have a settled but flexible defensive back 6. With a focus on skill set, pace, ball getting ability as well as defensive capabilities.

(On a side note any side that does not have Maynard in at least the 22 - a 20 yo that has shown enough to suggest he may in fact become an A grader - needs a review).

White has shown enough to be given further opportunity. Our side would look better with all of Cloke, Moore, Cox and White playing. White to be given a whole pre season developing mindset, skill set and defensive smarts over pre season to play as a key back in 2017.


FB: Marsh - (White / Keefee) - Sinclair
HB: Howe - Reid - Maynard
C: Sidebottom - Treloar - Crisp
Foll: Grundy - Adams - Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo - Cloke - Varcoe
FF: Elliott - Cox - Moore
I/C: Swan, DeGoey, Aish, Greenwood

Replacements based on form, opposition, specific aspects of game plan for the week:

Williams, Ramsey, Sharenberg, Smith, Brown (if not traded), Langdon, Crocker, Phillips, Broomhead, Witts (if not traded), Wills, Blair, Goodyear

 

[Apex36]

Going to be hard for Swan let's hope he isn't as slow as Maccaffer. I don't see Swan in the best team due to coming to the end and missing a whole year with a serious injury.
As for Elliott I think he would just be happy to be walking next year.

You know he's not crippled, right?

 

[DaVe86]

My main aim of selection was to have a settled but flexible defensive back 6. With a focus on skill set, pace, ball getting ability as well as defensive capabilities.

(On a side note any side that does not have Maynard in at least the 22 - a 20 yo that has shown enough to suggest he may in fact become an A grader - needs a review).

White has shown enough to be given further opportunity. Our side would look better with all of Cloke, Moore, Cox and White playing. White to be given a whole pre season developing mindset, skill set and defensive smarts over pre season to play as a key back in 2017.


FB: Marsh - (White / Keefee) - Sinclair
HB: Howe - Reid - Maynard
C: Sidebottom - Treloar - Crisp
Foll: Grundy - Adams - Pendlebury
HF: Fasolo - Cloke - Varcoe
FF: Elliott - Cox - Moore
I/C: Swan, DeGoey, Aish, Greenwood

Replacements based on form, opposition, specific aspects of game plan for the week:

Williams, Ramsey, Sharenberg, Smith, Brown (if not traded), Langdon, Crocker, Phillips, Broomhead, Witts (if not traded), Wills, Blair, Goodyear

White into defence is an interesting concept, but I don't think he is a genuine full back. Marsh, Reid and Howe realistically play the sort of role he would. I think we still need 1 lock down full back to play on the monsters. Right now it is Nathan Brown, but I'd like to see us dip our toes into the water for Michael Hurley.

Just watching his spoiling effort against McGovern last week shows why we should be cautious about him being a full back. He can be a bit lazy at times...which is ok if he is just playing as a spare defender or 3rd forward...but I think it would cost us as a full back.

Otherwise, I think your team is pretty much spot on.


In relation to my opening team, the guy most vulnerable at the moment is Marley Williams. I think he is best 22, but when Ramsey and Scharenberg are back that may not be the case. Also, Maynard may keep him out as well. I think he still comes into our current side over Smith though.

 

[good4footy]

White into defence is an interesting concept, but I don't think he is a genuine full back. Marsh, Reid and Howe realistically play the sort of role he would. I think we still need 1 lock down full back to play on the monsters. Right now it is Nathan Brown, but I'd like to see us dip our toes into the water for Michael Hurley.

Just watching his spoiling effort against McGovern last week shows why we should be cautious about him being a full back. He can be a bit lazy at times...which is ok if he is just playing as a spare defender or 3rd forward...but I think it would cost us as a full back.

Otherwise, I think your team is pretty much spot on.


In relation to my opening team, the guy most vulnerable at the moment is Marley Williams. I think he is best 22, but when Ramsey and Scharenberg are back that may not be the case. Also, Maynard may keep him out as well. I think he still comes into our current side over Smith though.

Agree with all of that:

1) Hurley we need to do more than dip our toe in. Not sure where we sit salary cap wise, but we just need to chase him hard.

2) Yes White would be a bit of a risk but we would know where we stood with him end of NAB games. A whole preseason of him learning the craft and the attitude needed. He either stands up or doesn't. Also agree with Brown that he is needed when the opposition requires (if we don't have Hurley).

 

[DaVe86]

Agree with all of that:

1) Hurley we need to do more than dip our toe in. Not sure where we sit salary cap wise, but we just need to chase him hard.

2) Yes White would be a bit of a risk but we would know where we stood with him end of NAB games. A whole preseason of him learning the craft and the attitude needed. He either stands up or doesn't. Also agree with Brown that he is needed when the opposition requires (if we don't have Hurley).

The other option of course is that it could free Howe up to play forward again...especially if Scharenberg is also available.

I still haven't given up on this concept as he is that mid-size type everyone wants.

 

[iGNITER]

Very hard to pick with a full list.

However I know that I would love to see the forward line setup like this:

HF - Elliott Cloke Varcoe
F - Swan Moore Fasolo

 

[manicmagpie]

Great thread. One of the positives for me from the second half of the season so far is how the best 22 is taking shape. For mine the uncertainty is now down to just a small number of spots instead of being shaky on the whole composition and structure. The realisation that Marsh and Maynard are definitely capable of playing good football (I was still doubting this up to a few weeks ago) has definitely helped with that.

I'm also a huge fan of Ramsay, albeit based on a small sample size. If he's fit then he's in there. Marley will have to up his game to beat out Ramsay or Sinclair for his spot.

 

[DaVe86]

Great thread. One of the positives for me from the second half of the season so far is how the best 22 is taking shape. For mine the uncertainty is now down to just a small number of spots instead of being shaky on the whole composition and structure. The realisation that Marsh and Maynard are definitely capable of playing good football (I was still doubting this up to a few weeks ago) has definitely helped with that.

I'm also a huge fan of Ramsay, albeit based on a small sample size. If he's fit then he's in there. Marley will have to up his game to beat out Ramsay or Sinclair for his spot.

I agree. Although we have fallen a long way short of our goals this year, I think the list has taken a step forward. The players we wanted to push through are doing so, and the players we wanted replaced have been.

Marley is the one spot in my side up for grabs right now. It's going to be a clash between he and Ramsey, but at full fitness I reckon Ramsey may have him covered right now. Marley stays in there short term until I see how Ramsey pulls up from the knee reco.

 

[ThexderX]

BEST 22

B: Marsh, Brown, Williams
HB: Howe, Reid, Sinclair
C: Treloar, Adams, Sidebottom
HF: Elliott, Moore, Varcoe
F: Fasolo, Cloke, White

R: Grundy, Pendlebury, Greenwood

I: Maynard, De Goey, Swan, Crisp

Williams...really? He has done nothing for so long.

Every time he plays he is a liability...don't get the universal love for him?

 

[Quicky]

Williams...really? He has done nothing for so long.

Every time he plays he is a liability...don't get the universal love for him?

Marley is in a poor patch of form. But it wasn't that long ago that he was almost AA from a back pocket. At his best he is a high possession winning, line breaking back pocket that brings mongrel and doesn't lose a contest. People remember that form and potential.