Combined Best 22 of dynasty teams in 21st century

[Guardian Hawk]

I reckon this may be controversial but basically every side (all but 1) has had Jonathon Brown in it without argument so far and I'm personally not sure he should make it.

Wonderful player for sure but I think his reputation has a been a little elevated due to his country blokey persona, fearsome 'presence' and admittedly wonderful bravery.

As good as he was, he made the AA team twice. won 1 Coleman and averaged 26 goals per season across the threepeat years. He kicked more than 3 goals in a final just twice in his career and kicked 594 in total as a permanent forward.

Those are still impressive numbers but the competition for spots in this side is tough.

Franklin needs no introduction and was AA 8 times, kicked over 1000 goals (nearly double Brown), won 4 Colemans, averaged 87 goals in the flag years (more than triple Brown) and has a great many dominant finals.

Hawkins was AA 5 times, won a Coleman, has nearly 800 goals and a lot more big finals.

Riewoldt has 3 AA's, 3 Colemans, more big finals and more goals in the flag years.

Roughead was a dual AA (in different positions), kicked 272 goals in the flag years (WAY more than anyone else), kicked at least 72 goals in 3 of the flag years (including a Coleman) and ended up with basically the same number of goals as Brown, despite playing multiple other positions. A great many dominant finals too.

Even A Lynch, whose career accolades are a little less, at least was the 'main man' in the forward line for the Lions during their threepeat, leading their goalkicking in every season, kicking over 100 more goals than anyone else over the threepeat and having multiple big finals and Grand finals (most notably kicking 4 in a 1 goal win against Collingwood).

Loved Brown Dog, but think he might get squeezed out of this side, with Buddy at CHF and one of the others at FF.

 

[Tiger2709]

Welp, Richmond supporters aren't gonna like this very much.

3 flags who cares what others opinions are, good teams win flags.

 

[curnow inferno]

I reckon this may be controversial but basically every side (all but 1) has had Jonathon Brown in it without argument so far and I'm personally not sure he should make it.

Wonderful player for sure but I think his reputation has a been a little elevated due to his country blokey persona, fearsome 'presence' and admittedly wonderful bravery.

As good as he was, he made the AA team twice. won 1 Coleman and averaged 26 goals per season across the threepeat years. He kicked more than 3 goals in a final just twice in his career and kicked 594 in total as a permanent forward.

Those are still impressive numbers but the competition for spots in this side is tough.

Franklin needs no introduction and was AA 8 times, kicked over 1000 goals (nearly double Brown), won 4 Colemans, averaged 87 goals in the flag years (more than triple Brown) and has a great many dominant finals.

Hawkins was AA 5 times, won a Coleman, has nearly 800 goals and a lot more big finals.

Riewoldt has 3 AA's, 3 Colemans, more big finals and more goals in the flag years.

Roughead was a dual AA (in different positions), kicked 272 goals in the flag years (WAY more than anyone else), kicked at least 72 goals in 3 of the flag years (including a Coleman) and ended up with basically the same number of goals as Brown, despite playing multiple other positions. A great many dominant finals too.

Even A Lynch, whose career accolades are a little less, at least was the 'main man' in the forward line for the Lions during their threepeat, leading their goalkicking in every season, kicking over 100 more goals than anyone else over the threepeat and having multiple big finals and Grand finals (most notably kicking 4 in a 1 goal win against Collingwood).

Loved Brown Dog, but think he might get squeezed out of this side, with Buddy at CHF and one of the others at FF.

This is the trouble with stats. Brown is one guy i really spew had to battle so many injuries in his prime then reconfigure himself as a closer to home forward cause he wasnt allowed to run the high km he was very capable of.

His 2006 season before injury struck in my opinion was the most dominant any forward has been this century alongside buddy in 2008.

 

[TheUnicorn]

3 flags who cares what others opinions are, good teams win flags.

Iv'e never seen a supporter base care more about what other people think than the Richmond supporters on here

Hopefully you rub off on them.

 

[KissKiss]

I reckon this may be controversial but basically every side (all but 1) has had Jonathon Brown in it without argument so far and I'm personally not sure he should make it.

Wonderful player for sure but I think his reputation has a been a little elevated due to his country blokey persona, fearsome 'presence' and admittedly wonderful bravery.

As good as he was, he made the AA team twice. won 1 Coleman and averaged 26 goals per season across the threepeat years. He kicked more than 3 goals in a final just twice in his career and kicked 594 in total as a permanent forward.

Those are still impressive numbers but the competition for spots in this side is tough.

Franklin needs no introduction and was AA 8 times, kicked over 1000 goals (nearly double Brown), won 4 Colemans, averaged 87 goals in the flag years (more than triple Brown) and has a great many dominant finals.

Hawkins was AA 5 times, won a Coleman, has nearly 800 goals and a lot more big finals.

Riewoldt has 3 AA's, 3 Colemans, more big finals and more goals in the flag years.

Roughead was a dual AA (in different positions), kicked 272 goals in the flag years (WAY more than anyone else), kicked at least 72 goals in 3 of the flag years (including a Coleman) and ended up with basically the same number of goals as Brown, despite playing multiple other positions. A great many dominant finals too.

Even A Lynch, whose career accolades are a little less, at least was the 'main man' in the forward line for the Lions during their threepeat, leading their goalkicking in every season, kicking over 100 more goals than anyone else over the threepeat and having multiple big finals and Grand finals (most notably kicking 4 in a 1 goal win against Collingwood).

Loved Brown Dog, but think he might get squeezed out of this side, with Buddy at CHF and one of the others at FF.

I think even most Lions fans agree his best football came after the threepeat. In putting together these sides I'd favour the guys who were their best during the premiership years.

Personally I'd consider Riewoldt, Hawkins, Lynch, Buddy and Roughead for this team.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I am really glad some of these higher conceding dynasty defences like Hawthorn, Geelong and the Brisbane Lions Football Club are finally getting some recognition on this thread. Now after reading this thread I have had an epiphany - whatever that is - because it has become blindingly obvious exactly how lucky those Richmond dynasty defenders were to play with the extremely parsimonious Richmond system which made it so much easier for all Richmond players to look like world beaters for 4 years.

I mean let's look at some facts about these dynasty defences so we can see just how misleading and annoying facts can be. And why this thread has done such a superb job at avoiding them to this point.....

I will list the dynasty defences from the most to least difficult to score against.....because Geelong had a tortoise dynasty that took a cohort-slow 5 years to complete, let's look at each club's 5 year period. Where required I have selected the best adjoining season/s to add to each club's dynasty seasons to bring them up to a 5 year period.

1. Richmond conceded(home and away season first then finals):

2017 1684 @ 77, 167 @ 56
2018 1574 @ 72, 161 @ 80
2019 1664 @ 76, 156 @ 52
2020 1414 @ 64, 260 @ 65 *adjusted to full 22 round season of 80 minute matches
2021 1780 @ 81 no finals

Richmond overall h&a 8116 @ 74 points, finals 774 @ 64, h&a + finals combined 8890 @ 73

*Richmond defenders are barred from the best 22 of the 21st century dynasty teams due to playing under the advantageous Richmond system that magically made all their players perform better than they were capable of doing


2. Geelong conceded:

2007 1664 @ 76, 181 @ 60
2008 1651 @ 75, 230 @ 77
2009 1815 @ 82, 197 @ 66
2010 1702 @ 77, 269 @ 90
2011 1619 @ 74, 217 @ 72

Geelong overall h&a 8451 @ 77 points average, finals 1114 @ 74, overall 9565 @ 75

3. Hawthorn conceded:

2011 1634 @ 74, 252 @ 84
2012 1733 @ 79, 280 @ 93
2013 1859 @ 84, 210 @ 70
2014 1746 @ 79, 226 @ 75
2015 1548 @ 70, 285 @ 71
Hawthorn overall h&a 8520 @ 77, finals 1253 @ 78, overall 9773 @ 78

4. Brisbane conceded:

2000 2222 @ 101, 227 @ 113
2001 1989 @ 90, 206 @ 69
2002 1843 @ 84, 192 @ 64
2003 1883 @ 86, 332 @ 83
2004 1783 @ 81, 257 @ 86

Brisbane Lions overall h&a 9720 @ 88, finals 1214 @ 81, overall 10934 points @ 87


So they rank as follows...

Overall points conceded on average:

1. Richmond 73
2. Geelong 75
3. Hawthorn 78
4. Brisbane 87

Points conceded home and away on average:

1. Richmond 74
= 2. Geelong & Hawthorn 77
4. Brisbane 88

Points conceded in finals on average:

1. Richmond 64

2. Daylight

3. And then some

4. Geelong 74
5. Hawthorn 78
6. Brisbane 81


I know, Richmond supporters will protest and say Richmond dynasty defence didn't get to beat up on start up teams who couldn't score, teams with under-funded footy departments and etc like the other dynasties it is not fair woe is us. Have a whinge Richmond supporters, your defence got to play with the huge advantage of Richmond system, which somehow made all of the players better than they actually were.

Thankfully curnow inferno was all over this when he jumped right on the front foot and selected zero defenders from the best performing defensive unit, zero defenders from the second best defensive unit - daylight - 2 defenders from the next best defensive unit, Geelong, 3 defenders from the next best defensive unit, Hawthorn, and 2 defenders from the whipper-in defence, Brisbane Lions FC.

Please everybody let's keep this thread on track and not be deceived by the objective facts. I find that is the biggest error any thread can make on BF, ie basing its received wisdom on objective facts.

 

[Tiger2709]

Iv'e never seen a supporter base care more about what other people think than the Richmond supporters on here

Hopefully you rub off on them.

Oh I still care a bit what people think don't we all but 3 flags are more important and its expected that certain clubs BF supporters will try to diminish Richmond's dynasty. In reality player v player, Dusty is an absolute certainty Id have him no.1 player picked, Cotch should probably be in there at worst on the bench and maybe Rance or Reiwoldt, I think Reiwoldt's efforts over the years probably has him slightly ahead of Brown and Hawkins but that Lions team was full of stars, as was the Cats team in the 2010's both had advantage of certain recruiting conditions that no longer exist.

We weren't a team full of superstars we were a team with a few of the very best, topped up with some pretty good role players, in my opinion it makes our 3 flags/dynasty all the better.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I reckon this may be controversial but basically every side (all but 1) has had Jonathon Brown in it without argument so far and I'm personally not sure he should make it.

Wonderful player for sure but I think his reputation has a been a little elevated due to his country blokey persona, fearsome 'presence' and admittedly wonderful bravery.

As good as he was, he made the AA team twice. won 1 Coleman and averaged 26 goals per season across the threepeat years. He kicked more than 3 goals in a final just twice in his career and kicked 594 in total as a permanent forward.

Those are still impressive numbers but the competition for spots in this side is tough.

Franklin needs no introduction and was AA 8 times, kicked over 1000 goals (nearly double Brown), won 4 Colemans, averaged 87 goals in the flag years (more than triple Brown) and has a great many dominant finals.

Hawkins was AA 5 times, won a Coleman, has nearly 800 goals and a lot more big finals.

Riewoldt has 3 AA's, 3 Colemans, more big finals and more goals in the flag years.

Roughead was a dual AA (in different positions), kicked 272 goals in the flag years (WAY more than anyone else), kicked at least 72 goals in 3 of the flag years (including a Coleman) and ended up with basically the same number of goals as Brown, despite playing multiple other positions. A great many dominant finals too.

Even A Lynch, whose career accolades are a little less, at least was the 'main man' in the forward line for the Lions during their threepeat, leading their goalkicking in every season, kicking over 100 more goals than anyone else over the threepeat and having multiple big finals and Grand finals (most notably kicking 4 in a 1 goal win against Collingwood).

Loved Brown Dog, but think he might get squeezed out of this side, with Buddy at CHF and one of the others at FF.

This is what I am talking about right here. People bringing facts to the table is going to be the ruin of this thread, it makes me so angry.

 

[Pistol Night]

Iv'e never seen a supporter base care more about what other people think than the Richmond supporters on here

Hopefully you rub off on them.

I dont think that'll help..

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I dont think that'll help..

We are taking lessons in not caring from Geelong supporters. Their lack of career at being de-dynastied by losing 3 finals to the Richmond dynasty team is legendary on these pages. I have never seen a supporter base care so much about not caring as them. If we keep working on it we will get there, I am sure.

 

[Pistol Night]

We are taking lessons in not caring from Geelong supporters. Their lack of career at being de-dynastied by losing 3 finals to the Richmond dynasty team is legendary on these pages. I have never seen a supporter base care so much about not caring as them. If we keep working on it we will get there, I am sure.

Im a Pies supporter, Dynasty to me is an 80s soap opera

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Im a Pies supporter, Dynasty to me is an 80s soap opera

I think it was real life for you guys once....

100 years ago.

 

[marcmurphy3]

Not surprised by the lack of Tigers. On paper their side was clearly inferior to the other dynasty teams.

It's actually a compliment to them as a "team" given what they achieved despite that. Even Rance who should be an automatic in the combined 22 only played in 1 of the 3 flags. And Cotchin who would be s borderline pick wasn't at his best as a player during the Tigers Dynasty era (great as a captain though).

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Attended a private members function in 2011 where Mark Evans addressed the small crowd and told of the clubs desire/need to capitalize over the coming years on the two generational players and leaders in the middle, Mitchell and Hodge.

It’s hard to fit all players in to a side like this, but do find it odd how many times Mitchell gets pushed aside in these sorts of threads.
It’s unpopular opinion, but his tenure, tenacity and particularly his ball use makes him one of the greatest mids the game IMO has seen because not only did he find himself on the bottom of packs continuously extracting to others, but in open play there was almost no one better at directing the flow of play and completely opening up the transition of the ball from one side of the ground to another direct channel to goal by foot.

Hard task to put this side together though.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Attended a private members function in 2011 where Mark Evans addressed the small crowd and told of the clubs desire/need to capitalize over the coming years on the two generational players and leaders in the middle, Mitchell and Hodge.

It’s hard to fit all players in to a side like this, but do find it odd how many times Mitchell gets pushed aside in these sorts of threads.
It’s unpopular opinion, but his tenure, tenacity and particularly his ball use makes him one of the greatest mids the game IMO has seen because not only did he find himself on the bottom of packs continuously extracting to others, but in open play there was almost no one better at directing the flow of play and completely opening up the transition of the ball from one side of the ground to another direct channel to goal by foot.

Hard task to put this side together though.

There is absolutely no sensible reason whatsoever to believe the best Geelong and Brisbane midfielders in their dynasties were better than the best Hawthorn and Richmond midfielders in their dynasties. But if they truly were, then Hawthorn and Richmond players should dominate the remaining positions on the ground, because somebody must have made them dominate 3 finals series each, the exact same amount of finals series the other dynasty teams dominated.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

****, this thread has come to a screaming halt. This shows just how damaging facts and perspective can be to threads like this.

 

[marcmurphy3]

There is absolutely no sensible reason whatsoever to believe the best Geelong and Brisbane midfielders in their dynasties were better than the best Hawthorn and Richmond midfielders in their dynasties. But if they truly were, then Hawthorn and Richmond players should dominate the remaining positions on the ground, because somebody must have made them dominate 3 finals series each, the exact same amount of finals series the other dynasty teams dominated.

I don't think that's really true. Plenty of sides have won flags in the last 20 years and while all have had good lists, how good has varied quite a bit. Very possible for several clubs to have 3 flags and not be even on talent.

In terms of top end individual talent I would go Brisbane > Geelong > Hawthorn > Richmond. In terms of system Richmond > Hawthorn > Geelong > Brisbane. The latter is a big reason why the Hawks and Richmond won 3 flags.

Also worth noting that a combined 22 doesn't reflect talent across a whole team but only top end talent. Brisbane for example had some pretty average role players but their top 6-8 was incredible. So when you are talking about most talented lists I guess it depends what you mean.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I am really glad some of these higher conceding dynasty defences like Hawthorn, Geelong and the Brisbane Lions Football Club are finally getting some recognition on this thread. Now after reading this thread I have had an epiphany - whatever that is - because it has become blindingly obvious exactly how lucky those Richmond dynasty defenders were to play with the extremely parsimonious Richmond system which made it so much easier for all Richmond players to look like world beaters for 4 years.

I mean let's look at some facts about these dynasty defences so we can see just how misleading and annoying facts can be. And why this thread has done such a superb job at avoiding them to this point.....

I will list the dynasty defences from the most to least difficult to score against.....because Geelong had a tortoise dynasty that took a cohort-slow 5 years to complete, let's look at each club's 5 year period. Where required I have selected the best adjoining season/s to add to each club's dynasty seasons to bring them up to a 5 year period.

1. Richmond conceded(home and away season first then finals):

2017 1684 @ 77, 167 @ 56
2018 1574 @ 72, 161 @ 80
2019 1664 @ 76, 156 @ 52
2020 1414 @ 64, 260 @ 65 *adjusted to full 22 round season of 80 minute matches
2021 1780 @ 81 no finals

Richmond overall h&a 8116 @ 74 points, finals 774 @ 64, h&a + finals combined 8890 @ 73

*Richmond defenders are barred from the best 22 of the 21st century dynasty teams due to playing under the advantageous Richmond system that magically made all their players perform better than they were capable of doing


2. Geelong conceded:

2007 1664 @ 76, 181 @ 60
2008 1651 @ 75, 230 @ 77
2009 1815 @ 82, 197 @ 66
2010 1702 @ 77, 269 @ 90
2011 1619 @ 74, 217 @ 72

Geelong overall h&a 8451 @ 77 points average, finals 1114 @ 74, overall 9565 @ 75

3. Hawthorn conceded:

2011 1634 @ 74, 252 @ 84
2012 1733 @ 79, 280 @ 93
2013 1859 @ 84, 210 @ 70
2014 1746 @ 79, 226 @ 75
2015 1548 @ 70, 285 @ 71
Hawthorn overall h&a 8520 @ 77, finals 1253 @ 78, overall 9773 @ 78

4. Brisbane conceded:

2000 2222 @ 101, 227 @ 113
2001 1989 @ 90, 206 @ 69
2002 1843 @ 84, 192 @ 64
2003 1883 @ 86, 332 @ 83
2004 1783 @ 81, 257 @ 86

Brisbane Lions overall h&a 9720 @ 88, finals 1214 @ 81, overall 10934 points @ 87


So they rank as follows...

Overall points conceded on average:

1. Richmond 73
2. Geelong 75
3. Hawthorn 78
4. Brisbane 87

Points conceded home and away on average:

1. Richmond 74
= 2. Geelong & Hawthorn 77
4. Brisbane 88

Points conceded in finals on average:

1. Richmond 64

2. Daylight

3. And then some

4. Geelong 74
5. Hawthorn 78
6. Brisbane 81


I know, Richmond supporters will protest and say Richmond dynasty defence didn't get to beat up on start up teams who couldn't score, teams with under-funded footy departments and etc like the other dynasties it is not fair woe is us. Have a whinge Richmond supporters, your defence got to play with the huge advantage of Richmond system, which somehow made all of the players better than they actually were.

Thankfully curnow inferno was all over this when he jumped right on the front foot and selected zero defenders from the best performing defensive unit, zero defenders from the second best defensive unit - daylight - 2 defenders from the next best defensive unit, Geelong, 3 defenders from the next best defensive unit, Hawthorn, and 2 defenders from the whipper-in defence, Brisbane Lions FC.

Please everybody let's keep this thread on track and not be deceived by the objective facts. I find that is the biggest error any thread can make on BF, ie basing its received wisdom on objective facts.

Some good points but need to factor in the difference in scoring overtime. Teams were more attacking when Geelong and particularly Brisbane won their flags then they are today so you cant really compare points conceded totals across eras. A better measure would be points conceded ranking (against the rest of the comp) by year.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don't think that's really true. Plenty of sides have won flags in the last 20 years and while all have had good lists, how good has varied quite a bit. Very possible for several clubs to have 3 flags and not be even on talent.

In terms of top end individual talent I would go Brisbane > Geelong > Hawthorn > Richmond. In terms of system Richmond > Hawthorn > Geelong > Brisbane. The latter is a big reason why the Hawks and Richmond won 3 flags.

Also worth noting that a combined 22 doesn't reflect talent across a whole team but only top end talent. Brisbane for example had some pretty average role players but their top 6-8 was incredible. So when you are talking about most talented lists I guess it depends what you mean.

All teams have systems and especially all Premiership teams and particularly dynasty teams have well honed systems. How well the players play within those systems compared to how well their opponents play within their teams' systems dictates the success of the teams.

Whilst it is possible, I simply do not believe it is credible that of 4 teams to win 3 premierships each, 3 of them would have 600% to 800% of the representation in a best 22 compared to the 4th team.

If their best players were that much better they would have made them win at least some more flags, surely? Richmond's defence was clearly the most effective of all these teams, yet Richmond's only representative getting universal acknowledgement is their most attacking player, Dustin Martin.

Richmond had Martin, Rance, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Lynch, Edwards, Houli, Grimes and Prestia who were probably our top 9 players during the dynasty years, and in those years they were at the very least similar in effectiveness to the top 9 players of other dynasty teams.

 

[Mr Meow]

Attended a private members function in 2011 where Mark Evans addressed the small crowd and told of the clubs desire/need to capitalize over the coming years on the two generational players and leaders in the middle, Mitchell and Hodge.

It’s hard to fit all players in to a side like this, but do find it odd how many times Mitchell gets pushed aside in these sorts of threads.
It’s unpopular opinion, but his tenure, tenacity and particularly his ball use makes him one of the greatest mids the game IMO has seen because not only did he find himself on the bottom of packs continuously extracting to others, but in open play there was almost no one better at directing the flow of play and completely opening up the transition of the ball from one side of the ground to another direct channel to goal by foot.

Hard task to put this side together though.

No I agree, Mitchell was a sublime midfielder. It made 2008 even more embarrassing that he had a dog of a day and Hawthorn still ran rampant. Yet in 2013 he took his side on their shoulders, banished the Kennett curse and set the path for the dynasty. He was unbelievable in that prelim. And he should start in this combined team.

 

[KissKiss]

Some good points but need to factor in the difference in scoring overtime. Teams were more attacking when Geelong and particularly Brisbane won their flags then they are today so you cant really compare points conceded totals across eras. A better measure would be points conceded ranking (against the rest of the comp) by year.

I was about to ask the same thing. To compare the defence (and probably offence could be looked at the same way), you probably need to compare it to the averages of the time.

Im sure that Richmond will still come up high for defence as they were a great defensive unit. But the comparison isnt quite right without looking at the changes to the game over time

 

[marcmurphy3]

I was about to ask the same thing. To compare the defence (and probably offence could be looked at the same way), you probably need to compare it to the averages of the time.

Im sure that Richmond will still come up high for defence as they were a great defensive unit. But the comparison isnt quite right without looking at the changes to the game over time

I had a look. Across dynasty years defence rankings (home and away)

Brisbane (2001-04) : 6, 2, 5, 2
Geelong (2007-11): 1, 1, 2, 3, 2
Hawks (2012-2015): 3, 5, 6, 2
Richmond (2017-2020): 3, 2, 3, 2

You could take it a step further and compare average scores to average in those years.

 

[Mr Meow]

This is going purely off their form during the dynasty years. Needing to play in 2 of their dynasty flags. I contemplated making an exception for Franklin, but decided to highlight Hawks who contributed most across 2013-2015.

FB: J.Gibson - Scarlett - Enright
HB: Hodge (vc) - Leppitsch - Houli
C: Lappin - Voss (c) - Smith
HF: Akermanis - Roughead - D.Martin
FF: S.Johnson - Riewoldt - Chapman
RR: Ottens - S.Mitchell - Ablett
INT: Black - Rioli - Bartel - C.Johnson

Hawkins and Selwood peaked after 2011. Likewise Taylor (not strictly AA in any flag year), even though he was superb in the '09 grand final. Cotchin was at his best before '17-'20. These players were still all very good during the flag years, but not as good as the ones who made this team.

I think people have slept on how elite Houli, Smith and Roughead were in their positions during their premierships.

Chapman was a freak 2007-2011.

S.Mitchell edges out Black for a starting spot.

Bartel in partly on versatility - he was strong anywhere through midfield or up forward so would be a perfect rotation for Martin, Aker etc.

Was a tough choice out of Birchall, C.Johnson or Burgoyne. In the end I thought Brisbane's rebounding defence deserved some more recognition.

Geelong: 7
Hawthorn: 6
Brisbane: 6
Richmond: 3

 

[Mr Meow]

I had a look. Across dynasty years defence rankings (home and away)

Brisbane (2001-04) : 6, 2, 5, 2
Geelong (2007-11): 1, 1, 2, 3, 2
Hawks (2012-2015): 3, 5, 6, 2
Richmond (2017-2020): 3, 2, 3, 2

You could take it a step further and compare average scores to average in those years.

MR will have a fit if you don't acknowledge Richmond kept sides to very low scores in finals. He's written a thousand essays about it and what it means.

 

[Cyclops]

MR will have a fit if you don't acknowledge Richmond kept sides to very low scores in finals. He's written a thousand essays about it and what it means.

FWIW I think Hardwicks style would have given Hawthorn and Geelong problems, but that Brisbane side with the cast iron mids and torture chamber defence would have them 3-0. Hardwick's reign was a relatively short stint but it really changed footy.