List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[BeeTee]

Nah that cannot be true.

Wouldn't surprise me, club is lurching from one disaster to the next. No surprise really if they screw this up.

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Gov has already signed a 2 year deal.

Unless Shuey can get a decent period of footy in before the end of the year, I reckon he has to go.

I think the only way Shuey's career can survive from here is a position change out of the midfield - forward pocket or half back.

His body won't let him do the things needed to play in the contest.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Can you explain why he can leave without being traded? Haven’t heard about this. Didn’t he request an 18 month contract which would be different to the standard 6 month msd rookie contract.

Culley could leave and nominate for the national draft. Big risk in that move as he is not a first round pick - probably a second round somewhere. A lottery as to the club he goes to.

He can also leave and nominate for the pre-season draft in which we will likely have pick 1. He ends up with us. If we don't finish last, Hawks, Norf or club X get to pick him.

I think he is happy and I am comfortable him wanting at least half a season of form to get his value up. Sign too early and it is a $200k salary. Show more like he did against Port and it is more.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Culley could leave and nominate for the national draft. Big risk in that move as he is not a first round pick - probably a second round somewhere. A lottery as to the club he goes to.

He can also leave and nominate for the pre-season draft in which we will likely have pick 1. He ends up with us. If we don't finish last, Hawks, Norf or club X get to pick him.

I think he is happy and I am comfortable him wanting at least half a season of form to get his value up. Sign too early and it is a $200k salary. Show more like he did against Port and it is more.

Isn't there some rule where rookie listed players who's contracts run out are free agents?
Marbior Chol left Richmond under these circumstances if I remember, went straight to GC and bypassed the drafts or having to be traded.

 

[Rowan18]

I don't like the words "runs until 2025"? What does that mean? Does it expire in Jan 2025? End of 2024 season? I assume it doesn't mean he's contract for the 2025 season? Why the ambiguity? Is the journo being ambiguous? Or is he in the dark? How dos that happen?

I don't mind the soft cap issue. We're hurtling towards Harley Reid. I don't want to push that off its track.

Maybe 2025 only happens if he hits a trigger.

My gut feel is he is fully contracted to end of 2025 and the extension was because he took a paycut in early years to help out with the reduced soft cap. I think the silence from the club is because they don't want his contract to be a talking point. The media can go super hard at "sack Simmo" this year and next, but internally they won't have to feel any pressure as they know he is there until end of 2025.

I think you've made the point many times that at this point, we just need a coach who can take the heat. I suspect Simmo and the club know that as well.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Can you explain why he can leave without being traded? Haven’t heard about this. Didn’t he request an 18 month contract which would be different to the standard 6 month msd rookie contract.

Nah that cannot be true.

Apologies lads, I believe I saw that in this thread earlier and just took it as gospel.

From what I read a few pages back it was stated he could be a considered a delisted free agent as a second year rookie if he declined a contract, but that would only be the case if it was another rookie contract presented to him, not a main list contract.

Still risk as outlined by ATG but probably less than what I originally made out.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Finishing bottom has a load of advantages. I personally could not give a rats about he spoon. If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly.

We are bottom now so get first dibs on the best over ager in the land in the mid season draft.
Stay bottom and we get the Harley Reid pick that we can use or listen to silly offers.
Bottom also gets you first pick in the pre-season draft meaning you have a massive advantage in any negotiations of trades.

Are we prepared as a club and as supporters to swallow our pride and go the whole hog.


Look at the advantage that Houston Texans pissed away gifting Chicago the number 1 pick in the NFL draft. Houston were in last place almost all the year then in an upset, they won the last game of the year against the Colts - a divisional rival. A touchdown in the dying stages of the game and for what???

Chicago got pick 1 and traded the it to Carolina for the ninth-overall pick this year, a second-round selection in 2023 (No. 61), a first-round pick in 2024, a second-round pick in 2025, and Moore, a receiver who just completed the first year of a three-year, $61.88 million contract with the Panthers.

Houston retained pick 2 and took the second choice quarterback (no need to debate which is better - it was the choice that No 1 gives you).

So by finishing last, Chicago had the choice of to sell or not to sell pick 1. It depends on the premium.

 

[darksquare]

Surely you're not trying to compare a former number 2 pick whose on about $750 000 a year to XON are you?

Only one of these two players has kicked multiple goals in a game this year

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Isn't there some rule where rookie listed players who's contracts run out are free agents?
Marbior Chol left Richmond under these circumstances if I remember, went straight to GC and bypassed the drafts or having to be traded.

In 2018, Chol was delisted from the rookie list and then relisted as a rookie. That makes him an UFA for life. Trew and Winder are the same for us.

 

[DanWCE]

Maybe 2025 only happens if he hits a trigger.

My gut feel is he is fully contracted to end of 2025 and the extension was because he took a paycut in early years to help out with the reduced soft cap. I think the silence from the club is because they don't want his contract to be a talking point. The media can go super hard at "sack Simmo" this year and next, but internally they won't have to feel any pressure as they know he is there until end of 2025.

I think you've made the point many times that at this point, we just need a coach who can take the heat. I suspect Simmo and the club know that as well.

Signing him to 2025 makes a lot of the media noise redundant, really. If only those journos pushing the 2024 narrative would do some real digging I think that angle would go away.

Internally I believe the club were aware of their list profile and trajectory long before it was openly discussed. This correlates with signing Simmo knowing a cliff was coming and we needed an experienced, level head to flat bat the constant heat, rather than an experienced head to navigate a finals series and win another flag. We've opted for maximum stability while we flood the place with teenagers and set upon a rebuild.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

How tough would the club be using the PSD as a threat or even a tool.

I think they would have no drama doing a reverse Ebert and bringing Georgiades in that way. That would bring a smile to my face even though I do not value Mitch. In addition, we ask Cornes again about his 1st round prediction.

Other WA out of contract to consider:

Think Angus - we have a good relationship with Sydney so I cannot see us using doing it
Robertson - Lions have gone hard in recent years at the trade table so it might be an option
Trey Ruscoe - not sure of our relationship there but a toxic move for a player of average ability does not make sense
Tyler Brockman - screw the Hawks, I like the idea
Jeremy Sharp - not worth souring a trading relationship but I suspect he is delisted anyway.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Apologies lads, I believe I saw that in this thread earlier and just took it as gospel.

From what I read a few pages back it was stated he could be a considered a delisted free agent as a second year rookie if he declined a contract, but that would only be the case if it was another rookie contract presented to him, not a main list contract.

Still risk as outlined by ATG but probably less than what I originally made out.

And if he did that, we’d still be entitled to a compo pick.

 

[Obeanie1]

How tough would the club be using the PSD as a threat or even a tool.

I think they would have no drama doing a reverse Ebert and bringing Georgiades in that way. That would bring a smile to my face even though I do not value Mitch. In addition, we ask Cornes again about his 1st round prediction.

Other WA out of contract to consider:

Think Angus - we have a good relationship with Sydney so I cannot see us using doing it
Robertson - Lions have gone hard in recent years at the trade table so it might be an option
Trey Ruscoe - not sure of our relationship there but a toxic move for a player of average ability does not make sense
Tyler Brockman - screw the Hawks, I like the idea
Jeremy Sharp - not worth souring a trading relationship but I suspect he is delisted anyway.

Sheldrick is out of contract?

Isn't that next year?

Brockman could be a steal. He is slowly coming along and has some skills.

 

[CountryLad]

Finishing bottom has a load of advantages. I personally could not give a rats about he spoon. If you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly.

We are bottom now so get first dibs on the best over ager in the land in the mid season draft.
Stay bottom and we get the Harley Reid pick that we can use or listen to silly offers.
Bottom also gets you first pick in the pre-season draft meaning you have a massive advantage in any negotiations of trades.

Are we prepared as a club and as supporters to swallow our pride and go the whole hog.


Look at the advantage that Houston Texans pissed away gifting Chicago the number 1 pick in the NFL draft. Houston were in last place almost all the year then in an upset, they won the last game of the year against the Colts - a divisional rival. A touchdown in the dying stages of the game and for what???

Chicago got pick 1 and traded the it to Carolina for the ninth-overall pick this year, a second-round selection in 2023 (No. 61), a first-round pick in 2024, a second-round pick in 2025, and Moore, a receiver who just completed the first year of a three-year, $61.88 million contract with the Panthers.

Houston retained pick 2 and took the second choice quarterback (no need to debate which is better - it was the choice that No 1 gives you).

So by finishing last, Chicago had the choice of to sell or not to sell pick 1. It depends on the premium.

Agree with going the whole hog.

Our win over Essendon last year put us in a tougher position during trade week. 9 & 14 for pick 2 was unders even though it appears to have worked out alright.

If we had held pick one we could have traded direct with GWS and would have been in a better position to negotiate. Probably received 3 and 12 and possibly even more. That would have taken some of the risk out of moving down in the draft. We were lucky in the end that the Suns went with Humphrey instead of Ginbey.

The difference between pick one and pick 2 this year could be massive in terms of value if Reid continues to rate higher than the rest of the draftees.

 

[tigger_ferret]

Signing him to 2025 makes a lot of the media noise redundant, really. If only those journos pushing the 2024 narrative would do some real digging I think that angle would go away.

Internally I believe the club were aware of their list profile and trajectory long before it was openly discussed. This correlates with signing Simmo knowing a cliff was coming and we needed an experienced, level head to flat bat the constant heat, rather than an experienced head to navigate a finals series and win another flag. We've opted for maximum stability while we flood the place with teenagers and set upon a rebuild.

I agree that having Simmo take the heat through the worst of the rebuild and bottoming out, then there is the option of a new coach and a fresh voice as we are hopefully ready to turn the corner, could be best for everyone.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

HAWTHORN will make at least two changes ahead of Saturday night's clash against Fremantle at Optus Stadium, leaving veteran Luke Breust

22

Luke Breust

Age

34

Ht

182cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

4.8

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

1.8

5star

and emerging star Changkuoth Jiath

9

Changkuoth Jiath

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

14.5

4star

K

5.0

2star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

91.0

2star

behind to help the pair overcome niggles that have hampered them early in 2023.

Another way to write “tanking”

 

[CountryLad]

See Suma is now a draft watcher too is there anything this man can’t do.

 

[THE A5]

See Suma is now a draft watcher too is there anything this man can’t do.

Be a head coach

 

[Eastcoasteagle]

Young Guns, Vic Metro reveal squads for draft talent clash

Notable draft prospects will take part in the series.

www.zerohanger.com

Finally some details on this game, and what do you know it's at Trevor Barker. Boom

 

[DanWCE]

HAWTHORN will make at least two changes ahead of Saturday night's clash against Fremantle at Optus Stadium, leaving veteran Luke Breust and emerging star Changkuoth Jiath behind to help the pair overcome niggles that have hampered them early in 2023.

Another way to write “tanking”

Imagine a world where Hawks need to drop two quality players just to ensure they don't touch up the Dockers this year.

Says a lot about Freo and their year so far. Warms the heart

 

[Chump Change]

Tankthorn can'ts.

 

[CountryLad]

HAWTHORN will make at least two changes ahead of Saturday night's clash against Fremantle at Optus Stadium, leaving veteran Luke Breust and emerging star Changkuoth Jiath behind to help the pair overcome niggles that have hampered them early in 2023.

Another way to write “tanking”

Imagine the outs in a few weeks time when the Hawks and Eagles are playing off for Reid. Will be an AFL game featuring the Beagles and Box Hill.

 

[twadds]

Imagine the outs in a few weeks time when the Hawks and Eagles are playing off for Reid. Will be an AFL game featuring the Beagles and Box Hill.

If our injury rate continues there will be no need to rest players.

 

[Chump Change]

"General soreness" will be the winner.

 

[CountryLad]

"General soreness" will be the winner.

TBC