List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...
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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

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Hillsy13 said:
Lyons playing well tonight, I think we should definitely consider him as a mature body to protect the young guys next year


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
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Eh? He'll turn 32 next year and has struggled to get a game at Brissie all year as the games passes him by. This would be a horrible option imo
 
With trading in a ruck, I'd only be keen if they were a genuine fwd/ruck. Bailey's rise means lead ruck is literally the only position this season where our player in a certain position isn't getting outdone every time by the equivalent opposition. We have so many holes in our list that I just don't think it's an area we can afford to waste resources on - we're not Melbourne who can deal with their 2 ruck experiment not working.

And I just don't see Bailey influencing anywhere near as much if he's playing half a game + as a forward. Sweet would be the same. As would most of the options available to us (we've seen how Grundy has struggled and he's a lot better than most)

Give Jack Williams games as 3/4 forward 1/4 ruck and/or wait till a perfect player becomes readily available, but I wouldn't be actively trying to create those list movements for 2 years or so
 
maverick001 said:
But they are getting so much more out of their Academies than any club will ever get out of F/S. Eagles for example have never had a F/S who would've been taken in the first 2 rounds. GCS this year will get three academy players all of which likely are first rounders, with Walter likely worth top 2 and Read top 10
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Ben Cousins?
 

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Dylan82 said:
Aware of that - I live up here (nephew just made the decision to go with League over AFL after Cronulla and the Dolphins both offered him contracts at 16).

Never will quite understand the utter wankiness around Union, private schools and old boys business associations that exists this way, in WA the following is completely different (perhaps because League is non-existent there I guess), anyway, I digress.


With the way the Northern Academies are setup, capturing from such a large pool, the level of participation doesn't need to be akin to the southern states.

Theoretically speaking, participation rates in NSW & Qld could be a third of those in WA & SA, yet still yield a higher total number of participants - and unlike WA & SA they are not truly exposed to the draft - they can be taken to an academy and effectively guaranteed a protected selection years in advance if they're good enough.

It's a massive distortion already and will only continue to grow.
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If you don’t mind me asking, what ball park figure is the sign on bonus these days?
 
stylish said:
Dunstan and Crouch would make Sheed look like Usain Bolt
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The question isn't really one of speed though.

Sure, the game has gravitated towards fast players. We want to build with speed in mind. But if we were to take on players like this, it's not about building, it's about development.

TK and Sheed don't get the footy. They're by and large receivers. Their natural game is to move into a spot to receive the ball.

The hierarchy of midfielders is this;

Bull (hold your fapping til later)
Accurate disposal/Decision maker

huge gap

Outsider
Possession monkey


We know that at least 80% of outsiders drafted in the top 6 or 7 don't end up being guns. Why? Because they need insiders and a strong midfield to be able to play. If they're drafted in the top 6 or 7, that team is unlikely to have a strong midfield.

So we have TK and Sheed. They're just not going to be able to lead a midfield against Oliver, Butters, Neale etc. There's no coincidence our midfield is getting flogged every week. And it's no coincidence that the best we've played all year (Saints) is when Shuey returned to top form.

But if Shuey and Yeo can't stay on the park, there is no continuity. And the consistency of their form is on the wane anyway. And then there is the loss of Redden - the big body and defensive work helps the likes of Shuey, Yeo, TK immensely. We don't have such a player right now.

So we may potentially need to stop gap measures for 2 seasons. Speed is not really what we need for this. We need big bodied, experienced players that we don't have to give up decent draft picks for.

So the questions are;

1. Can Shuey and Yeo stay on the park?
2. Is their form consistent enough?
3. Is there some sort of other issue? These are 2 guys who were never overweight or out of form, so whatever the issue is (and clearly there's an issue), it's not these two guys.

This is why soon-ish, I think they need to change coaches. Need some hard decisions made on a few players that creates a fresh scene and a bit of fear. If it turns out we need to draft in some big bodies for a couple of seasons to allow Ginbet/Hewett, Reid etc easier access to the ball, then so be it.
 
tigger_ferret said:
I thought it was the $80k or whatever is the minimum rookie payment that doesn’t count to salary cap. So $720k would still count to the cap in Gaff’s case
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Correct. We would only save $80k on the cap but another main list spot opens up.

How we would be struggling to open spots up is the question. 6 picks in the main draft but thats after trades. If we trade in one or two role players and have 6 picks that is 8 main list spots needed.

Feel others would be moved onto the rookie list before Gaff. So good chance we do it with someone.
 
I remember Andrew Gaff punching a baby in the face and then dobbing one from outside 50m while having a target painted on him the entire time and being bashed from pillar to post.

Now he can't make the distance from 35m when he's fresh as a daisy.

Time waits for no man.

The part I find most concerning was the huge props Simmo was giving him at the beginning of the year. It makes you wonder how our performance baselines can be so far off league pace.
 
RookiePick said:
The part I find most concerning was the huge props Simmo was giving him at the beginning of the year. It makes you wonder how our performance baselines can be so far off league pace.
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If he believed what he had said then that would be super concerning and would really mean that he's no longer fit for coaching.

More likely he was just saying that to get bums on seats and build excitement for the beginning of the season
 
maverick001 said:
But they are getting so much more out of their Academies than any club will ever get out of F/S. Eagles for example have never had a F/S who would've been taken in the first 2 rounds. GCS this year will get three academy players all of which likely are first rounders, with Walter likely worth top 2 and Read top 10
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The argument that Northern teams (maybe can include Tassie in the future) with good academy prospects will draft less players outside of their state seems to becoming more of a reality with the number of prospects seemingly increasing every year, but it invalidates the concept of a national draft.
If the AFL continues with this, could we get to a point when they'll just be excluded from the draft altogether because they have enough prospects each year?
Perhaps transition to a system where these teams can only take any leftovers in the draft, say players outside of the top 60 and the rookie draft?
Can't see the AFL making a move like this, but it's not equitable for these teams to be able to dip in both bowls, while the other teams don't have the same opportunity as it's almost impossible to successfully bid on one of their high academy prospects without being matched.
 
Kegs15 said:
With trading in a ruck, I'd only be keen if they were a genuine fwd/ruck. Bailey's rise means lead ruck is literally the only position this season where our player in a certain position isn't getting outdone every time by the equivalent opposition. We have so many holes in our list that I just don't think it's an area we can afford to waste resources on - we're not Melbourne who can deal with their 2 ruck experiment not working.

And I just don't see Bailey influencing anywhere near as much if he's playing half a game + as a forward. Sweet would be the same. As would most of the options available to us (we've seen how Grundy has struggled and he's a lot better than most)

Give Jack Williams games as 3/4 forward 1/4 ruck and/or wait till a perfect player becomes readily available, but I wouldn't be actively trying to create those list movements for 2 years or so
Click to expand...

Bailey and Gov would make a decent duo. Not sure who's Batman and who's Robin. Was Robin a ginger?

Bailey takes all the centre bounces as he is jumping over everone atm. Showing some very nice taps to advantage.

The second backup needs to be good elsewhere but can play well around the ground in general play. Gov is decent body on body and reads the play as well as anyone. Can pinch a goal as well.

But if Barrass leaves not likely.
 
Obeanie1 said:
Bailey and Gov would make a decent duo. Not sure who's Batman and who's Robin. Was Robin a ginger?

Bailey takes all the centre bounces as he is jumping over everone atm. Showing some very nice taps to advantage.

The second backup needs to be good elsewhere but can play well around the ground in general play. Gov is decent body on body and reads the play as well as anyone. Can pinch a goal as well.

But if Barrass leaves not likely.
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Gov has been wanting to be a ruck for his entire career so it would strange for him to finally get a decent crack at it at 31 lol.
 

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briztoon said:
If you don’t mind me asking, what ball park figure is the sign on bonus these days?
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Don't know all the specifics (his family is a bit funny like that when it comes to money), but both offers appear comparable to 2nd or 3rd round draftees in AFL per year, over 3 years. Cronulla also offering full coverage of relocation, living expenses and tertiary studies during the contract period.
 
Chump Change said:
The question isn't really one of speed though.

Sure, the game has gravitated towards fast players. We want to build with speed in mind. But if we were to take on players like this, it's not about building, it's about development.

TK and Sheed don't get the footy. They're by and large receivers. Their natural game is to move into a spot to receive the ball.

The hierarchy of midfielders is this;

Bull (hold your fapping til later)
Accurate disposal/Decision maker

huge gap

Outsider
Possession monkey


We know that at least 80% of outsiders drafted in the top 6 or 7 don't end up being guns. Why? Because they need insiders and a strong midfield to be able to play. If they're drafted in the top 6 or 7, that team is unlikely to have a strong midfield.

So we have TK and Sheed. They're just not going to be able to lead a midfield against Oliver, Butters, Neale etc. There's no coincidence our midfield is getting flogged every week. And it's no coincidence that the best we've played all year (Saints) is when Shuey returned to top form.

But if Shuey and Yeo can't stay on the park, there is no continuity. And the consistency of their form is on the wane anyway. And then there is the loss of Redden - the big body and defensive work helps the likes of Shuey, Yeo, TK immensely. We don't have such a player right now.

So we may potentially need to stop gap measures for 2 seasons. Speed is not really what we need for this. We need big bodied, experienced players that we don't have to give up decent draft picks for.

So the questions are;

1. Can Shuey and Yeo stay on the park?
2. Is their form consistent enough?
3. Is there some sort of other issue? These are 2 guys who were never overweight or out of form, so whatever the issue is (and clearly there's an issue), it's not these two guys.

This is why soon-ish, I think they need to change coaches. Need some hard decisions made on a few players that creates a fresh scene and a bit of fear. If it turns out we need to draft in some big bodies for a couple of seasons to allow Ginbet/Hewett, Reid etc easier access to the ball, then so be it.
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apologies for intrusion
a free stop gap inside mid would be paddy dow from carlton
voss must hate him, as all blues supporters want him to play , would prefer he gets a game over some others
his main position is inside mid , which is cripps role ( kennedy and hewtt are favoured back ups)
out of contract at end of the year, so no draft picks required, a mature body to protect kids
does have his limitations with defensive running, but is good at clearance work
as wont it cost draft picks from your rebuild , it is a free hit that you can delist if it does not work out
 
Is Paddy Dow about to become the new Dev?
 
Dylan82 said:
Don't know all the specifics (his family is a bit funny like that when it comes to money), but both offers appear comparable to 2nd or 3rd round draftees in AFL per year, over 3 years. Cronulla also offering full coverage of relocation, living expenses and tertiary studies during the contract period.
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This what the AFL can’t compete with up here.

When 14 to 16 year olds are being offered $10k per bonuses and full medical to sign on as a junior. Then at 18 it jumps to higher than afl draftee contracts.
 
maverick001 said:
What is the logic and likelihood for North having access to Sanders? Also does he need to agree to it? Can't see why he'd want to go to North tbh

Generally I hate the idea of priority picks, and the least of North's problems has been access to top end talent, so don't see why they should get more
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Sanders is a North NGA if he gets past pick 40. So they are asking the AFL to pre-list him at no cost. TBH it's the most probably form of support they get outside of the AFL trumping up their compensation pick if McKay goes.
 
Also I just want people to take note of something here. Lots of people mention not being able to match up much on Neale etc. He gets ****ing bullied in big games.

Outside of Fagan's favourites and some average coaching the reason they have not been able to take that next step is outside of Berry (who can't play inside due to injury) they have small midfielders. When it comes to playing other top teams in high pressure games and finals their midfield gets outmuscled. The less the umps blow the whistle the more benefit teams with big mids who can get the ball and dish out clean or burst from the clearance the more smaller mids get exposed.

People talk about lots of Collingwood players and it you go back to the 2018 grand final and even since the single most important player to them hasn't been Grundy, Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Daicos or Darcy Moore. It was Taylor Adams (yes he's falling away not but he was easily their most important player)

Whilst smaller Libba in peak form is easily the most important player to the dogs.

Go ask a Richmond supporter. In finals and big games sure Dusty showed up, but their most important player week to week. Shorter guy but absolute beast in Dion Prestia. He is only 175cm but got as big as 85kg's during Richmond's peak years.

Everyone knows about Melbourne. You have an extractor who can do nigh on anything in Oliver and a burst stoppage beast in Petracca. But it's not just these guys. Viney was a beast (absolute campaigner of a player) and Brayshaw is a very big, tough unit who could go through there as well. All on top of Gawn being the biggest body in the AFL.

Unless you can win the hard ball in a big final when the whistle is put away through the centre of the ground and around stoppages you won't win a premiership. Look at what happened when we lost Nicnat and Gaff. Our mediocre rucks went really hard and rough, it allowed sheed (who was certainly more damaging and better at stoppages around the ground than gaff) and Redden to really flourish. Then you had Yeo as an absolute beast and whilst Shuey isn't the tallest mid he is/was an absolute unit.
 
WCE_phil said:
Also I just want people to take note of something here. Lots of people mention not being able to match up much on Neale etc. He gets ******* bullied in big games.

Outside of Fagan's favourites and some average coaching the reason they have not been able to take that next step is outside of Berry (who can't play inside due to injury) they have small midfielders. When it comes to playing other top teams in high pressure games and finals their midfield gets outmuscled. The less the umps blow the whistle the more benefit teams with big mids who can get the ball and dish out clean or burst from the clearance the more smaller mids get exposed.

People talk about lots of Collingwood players and it you go back to the 2018 grand final and even since the single most important player to them hasn't been Grundy, Sidebottom, Pendlebury, Daicos or Darcy Moore. It was Taylor Adams (yes he's falling away not but he was easily their most important player)

Whilst smaller Libba in peak form is easily the most important player to the dogs.

Go ask a Richmond supporter. In finals and big games sure Dusty showed up, but their most important player week to week. Shorter guy but absolute beast in Dion Prestia. He is only 175cm but got as big as 85kg's during Richmond's peak years.

Everyone knows about Melbourne. You have an extractor who can do nigh on anything in Oliver and a burst stoppage beast in Petracca. But it's not just these guys. Viney was a beast (absolute campaigner of a player) and Brayshaw is a very big, tough unit who could go through there as well. All on top of Gawn being the biggest body in the AFL.

Unless you can win the hard ball in a big final when the whistle is put away through the centre of the ground and around stoppages you won't win a premiership. Look at what happened when we lost Nicnat and Gaff. Our mediocre rucks went really hard and rough, it allowed sheed (who was certainly more damaging and better at stoppages around the ground than gaff) and Redden to really flourish. Then you had Yeo as an absolute beast and whilst Shuey isn't the tallest mid he is/was an absolute unit.
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Sounds like we're on the right track with guys like Culley and Ginbey. Hewett looks like he can fill out like Shuey too.
 
RookiePick said:
I remember Andrew Gaff punching a baby in the face and then dobbing one from outside 50m while having a target painted on him the entire time and being bashed from pillar to post.

Now he can't make the distance from 35m when he's fresh as a daisy.

Time waits for no man.

The part I find most concerning was the huge props Simmo was giving him at the beginning of the year. It makes you wonder how our performance baselines can be so far off league pace.
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I am of the opinion that Simpson does not know where to play him and how to use him.

Simpson has been very slow to understand what the 666 and stand rule changes have meant, very slow at realising his side are at a disadvantage, ver6 slow at coming up with a new strategy, very slow at implementing that strategy and now very slow at realising which of his players are not coping.

the other alternative is that we have already extended his contract and are waiting for a break out Gaff game before we announce it🤮
 
maverick001 said:
But they are getting so much more out of their Academies than any club will ever get out of F/S. Eagles for example have never had a F/S who would've been taken in the first 2 rounds. GCS this year will get three academy players all of which likely are first rounders, with Walter likely worth top 2 and Read top 10
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Ben Cousins
Ashley McIntosh
 
AsterixTheGaul said:
I am of the opinion that Simpson does not know where to play him and how to use him.

Simpson has been very slow to understand what the 666 and stand rule changes have meant, very slow at realising his side are at a disadvantage, ver6 slow at coming up with a new strategy, very slow at implementing that strategy and now very slow at realising which of his players are not coping.

the other alternative is that we have already extended his contract and are waiting for a break out Gaff game before we announce it🤮
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How would you use him? I see him as a slow endurance runner that is good at reading the play. Given the speed of the game, I can't figure out anywhere he works as he can't keep up one on one (even to apply pressure). It reminds me of when Pridda retired once the oppo players targeted him as the weak link to transition the ball past (as he was too slow to defend in open space).
 
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