List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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Link to contract status of all players

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...

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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!

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[SetsSailForHome]

You need a


You need a squad to be competitive.

How many of the very best kids in the land have a premiership medal.

Tom Boyd 2013.
Luke Hodge 2001.

Two in 23 years.

I mean, Luke Hodge does have 4 Premierships, so 5/23 is getting a little more representative
But I know what your saying

 

[Deepthroat]

I’ve said this in this thread already. I’d be very nervous trading players or pick one for picks in the 5-10 range.

Nth sounds more and more likely to land pick 3 and Sanders.
Suns have 3 of the top 10 listed as academy kids.
That’s 5 of the top 10 gone!!!!!
5-10 is actually going to be pick 11-15!!!!

You will be reaching for players in that 5-10 range that are not of top 10 quality.

If the picks were so good clubs won’t be bundling them up.

Clubs in the window like Melbourne do not have 20 dead wood spots on their list they need to fill.

They can afford to maximise quality.

We should be looking to maximise a combination of quality and quantity.

 

[Obeanie1]

I have Murphy at 11 in my list (I am excluding FS and academy) so a small reach

Alternatively depending on Doggies picks - we can always see if they want to get ahead of the Croft bid. If they say no, we tell them we will bid on Croft as we want a KPD. That means dropping back from 7 to 12 and gaining something.

Say Sydney is 7, we offer them 7, 38, 55 and 57 for their 12 and 16. They get points for the Croft bid and we get 1, 12, 16, 19 and 36.

Pick up
1 - Harley Reid
12 - Darcy Wilson
12 - Ollie Murphy
19 - Archer Reid or Tholstrup
36 - Taylor Goad

Then rookie Livingstone, Baston-Hine and Collard

Our developing 22 and under stocks look much better
View attachment 1755316

A pairing of Reid and Wilson I would be very happy with.

If Tholstrup also came in ...........

There's some serious grunt and horse power for the midfield and flanks.

 

[dinnaz]

You need a


You need a squad to be competitive.

How many of the very best kids in the land have a premiership medal.

Tom Boyd 2013.
Luke Hodge 2001.

Two in 23 years.

True, but if you assume that every pick past #10 in the 2023 + 2024 drafts is a complete bust.
We also can't assume Bazzo, Chesser, Culley, Hewett will all of a sudden become stars.

Our 2026 proven squad is therefore in theory (being generous)
Ryan
Duggan
Cole
Allen
---------
B. Williams
Hough
Long
Ginbey
R1 2023
R1 2024


That's 10/30 Needed for a serious premiership assault. That's still only halfway there on our books now. That's a lot of positions to lock down that some middling picks won't address.
The best case is that Chesser, Bazzo, Barnett, Hewett, Maric, Burgiel plus maybe a few other roughies become big parts of that squad too. And of course if we can lock in predicted top 10 picks in 2025 & 2026 as well.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

I’ve said this in this thread already. I’d be very nervous trading players or pick one for picks in the 5-10 range.

Nth sounds more and more likely to land pick 3 and Sanders.
Suns have 3 of the top 10 listed as academy kids.
That’s 5 of the top 10 gone!!!!!
5-10 is actually going to be pick 11-15!!!!

You will be reaching for players in that 5-10 range that are not of top 10 quality.

If the picks were so good clubs won’t be bundling them up.

Norf won't get 3 for McKay and sanders.

McKay off to bombers for 600+

They'll get end of first round for McKay and sanders.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Deepthroat]

True, but if you assume that every pick past #10 in the 2023 + 2024 drafts is a complete bust.
We also can't assume Bazzo, Chesser, Culley, Hewett will all of a sudden become stars.

Our 2026 proven squad is therefore in theory (being generous)
Ryan
Duggan
Cole
Allen
---------
B. Williams
Hough
Long
Ginbey
R1 2023
R1 2024


That's 10/30 Needed for a serious premiership assault. That's still only halfway there on our books now. That's a lot of positions to lock down that some middling picks won't address.
The best case is that Chesser, Bazzo, Barnett, Hewett, Maric, Burgiel plus maybe a few other roughies become big parts of that squad too. And of course if we can lock in predicted top 10 picks in 2025 & 2026 as well.

Hewett looks the goods to me. He's as promising looking as any kid whose debuted in the last 5 seasons.

Take out the two 1's.

Add in 4,6 (Barrass trade) 2 players
Add in one from the 15,19 combo Players

Add in a two Top 10 for 1 next year.

Instead of 2 players you have 5. Numbers growing.

 

[pantskyle]

Or Three way trade:

WCE Trade: 1, 36, 38

MELB Trade: 4, 15, 23, 34 & F1

GCS Trade: 6 (1751 points)

GCS Receive: 23, 34, 36, 38 (2324 points)

MELB Receive: Pick 1

WCE Receive: 4, 6, 15 & F1

All depends how much MELB want Pick 1.

They super duper really want it.

 

[pantskyle]

Norf won't get 3 for McKay and sanders.

McKay off to bombers for 600+

They'll get end of first round for McKay and sanders.

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

Closer to 800k isn't it?

 

[kane249]

You reckon he's that switched on?

Artificial? Maybe
Intelligence? Definitely not

 

[bzparkes]

They super duper really want it.

Hope we hold. Pick 6 is a curse and pick 4 ensures we miss out of the top 3 from the draft.

Wouldn't be a good result for WCE.

 

[UseR2006]

Hewett looks the goods to me. He's as promising looking as any kid whose debuted in the last 5 seasons.

Take out the two 1's.

Add in 4,6 (Barrass trade) 2 players
Add in one from the 15,19 combo Players

Add in a two Top 10 for 1 next year.

Instead of 2 players you have 5. Numbers growing.

You are ignoring every other pick we already have in the draft and any other picks we may receive from trades of players.

There is no need to split Pick 1.

 

[Deepthroat]

You are ignoring every other pick we already have in the draft and any other picks we may receive from trades of players.

There is no need to split Pick 1.

Plenty.

Flight risk?
Eggs in one basket?
Has Reid reached his ceiling?

In 2019, it was Rowell then daylight. Caleb Serong wouldn't have been called "top end talent". He's the best of that draft now.

 

[dinnaz]

Hewett looks the goods to me. He's as promising looking as any kid whose debuted in the last 5 seasons.

Take out the two 1's.

Add in 4,6 (Barrass trade) 2 players
Add in one from the 15,19 combo Players

Add in a two Top 10 for 1 next year.

Instead of 2 players you have 5. Numbers growing.

Hewett looks okay, but is super inconsistent. Will win the game one week and then have 5 handballs the next. If he keeps his head on then he should be a 150 gamer but thats still a fair way away.

We won't get that for Barrass if he goes.
And those 4-5 players are all Duggan quality at best, Brander quality at worst. So long term that's probably 3 decent players vs 2 top end possible star players.

 

[bzparkes]

Hewett looks okay, but is super inconsistent. Will win the game one week and then have 5 handballs the next. If he keeps his head on then he should be a 150 gamer but thats still a fair way away.

We won't get that for Barrass if he goes.
And those 4-5 players are all Duggan quality at best, Brander quality at worst. So long term that's probably 3 decent players vs 2 top end possible star players.

Hewett's played a handful of games.

You can't seriously make that determination when he's a newbie playing in the worst team in the history of the AFL.

 

[Deepthroat]

Hewett looks okay, but is super inconsistent. Will win the game one week and then have 5 handballs the next. If he keeps his head on then he should be a 150 gamer but thats still a fair way away.

We won't get that for Barrass if he goes.
And those 4-5 players are all Duggan quality at best, Brander quality at worst. So long term that's probably 3 decent players vs 2 top end possible star players.

By your logic, Reid is Rowell at best, Andrew McGrath at worst.

 

[Monocle]

A pairing of Reid and Wilson I would be very happy with.

If Tholstrup also came in ...........

There's some serious grunt and horse power for the midfield and flanks.

Tholstrup is an interesting one.

After having burst onto the scene playing seniors last year he certainly drew attention to his talents.

This year, not so much and in fact I though he had a very underwhelming championship.I came away pretty disappointed with what he put on show.
He drifted badly in and out of quarters and games, sure he did have some wow moments, but too few and far between for my liking, overall his championship output was average and well below par in relation to my pre championship expectations.

Will be an important two months for him playing in the WAFL as he has IMO, a lot of work to do to convince me that he worth any more than a mid to late second round pick.

Right now as our picks currently stand, I see better player options being available with our own second rounder and Ports second rounder would probably see us miss out on him by a few spots or so.

I hope that he has a good close out to the WAFL season and convinces me that he would be worthy of spending pick 19 on him.


General Comment:

We are in such a shitty position now that we can’t really afford to stuff up many picks, as every bit of draft currency we have at our disposal over next three drafts needs to be a winner.
History shows that it’s a difficult assignment to nail all the picks, but if we don’t nail at least 75% of them, we will be languishing down in the cellar for a much longer time.

Foot Note:

I have liked both who we have drafted in the last two drafts and also the areas on need that we have addressed.
Still so much more work to be done by our recruiters.
But they have made a pleasing start to the list rebuild.
The start to the list rebuild is pretty much the ONLY thing that is pleasing me about our once mighty Club at the minute.

So much list pruning needs to be urgently done, as the amount of deadwood on the list currently is disturbing and worrisome.

 

[Sammy J]

We’re going to get a high end pick for Barrass too. So the need to split becomes less and less IMO.

Reid at 1, another high end talent in the top 10 from Sydney, then we have 19 as well. That’s a good start in further list regeneration.

 

[bzparkes]

Clubs in the window like Melbourne do not have 20 dead wood spots on their list they need to fill.

They can afford to maximise quality.

We should be looking to maximise a combination of quality and quantity.

Which we can do currently through other means.

What we may not get is another opportunity to draft a rolled-gold talent like Reid.

When you get an opportunity, like WCE currently have, you take it.

 

[dinnaz]

Hewett's played a handful of games.

You can't seriously make that determination when he's a newbie playing in the worst team in the history of the AFL.

I was speaking mostly form jr form which tends to reflect at AFL level. WAFL colts + WAFL league in 2021 + 2022
Also compare him to Ginbey who has a very similar career. He shows up and gets his 12 disposals and 6 tackles every week. Hewett has 20 disposals and then 4 a week later. If he puts it all together then he's almost the top player from that draft, it's just he never has and can't be expected to out of nowhere.

 

[TerryFilk]

The only way we should split is with North for 2 and 3 imo, otherwise just draft Reid, trade Barrass and go for the Suns 1st as well.

 

[dinnaz]

By your logic, Reid is Rowell at best, Andrew McGrath at worst.

Nahh Reid is more like Dusty at best Stringer at worst. If he can't make it as a mid he's still going to be a nightmare as a permanent forward.

 

[bzparkes]

I was speaking mostly form jr form which tends to reflect at AFL level. WAFL colts + WAFL league in 2021 + 2022
Also compare him to Ginbey who has a very similar career. He shows up and gets his 12 disposals and 6 tackles every week. Hewett has 20 disposals and then 4 a week later. If he puts it all together then he's almost the top player from that draft, it's just he never has and can't be expected to out of nowhere.

It'd help if he was hidden in the forward pocket for half the game, for starters. I guess it's fitness related though, which thankfully can be worked on.

When he has been in the middle, he's had an impact.

 

[ShaunDuggan]

The only way we should split is with North for 2 and 3 imo, otherwise just draft Reid, trade Barrass and go for the Suns 1st as well.

Yeh this, need to draft Reid for sure.

Then try trading up from the pick we get for Barrass to pick 3 to get Curtin.

Getting that GC pick would be handy as well. But I think Sydney is stacked with picks this year.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Just read Sumich's column suggesting we trade for Grundy with Melbourne. What a stupid idea. My opinion of him has gone way down after reading that (assuming it was actually Sumich who wrote that and not a ghost writer/editor forcing that dumb idea into his column).

But it brings up the larger concern about whether the club is going to have it's head on straight with it's priorities regarding trading. Lots of media commentators are offering up opinions that are based on the premise that our priority is and should be to get some extra wins and get off bottom place as soon as possible at any cost. And based on that premise they suggest trading for 30 year olds like Grundy. Or they suggest we throw draft picks at somebody who is not 30 but has been in the system for quite a while (like Georgiades) and hasn't really cut it but who would probably perform better over the next 2 or 3 years than an 18 year old draftee would.

The priority is to build a base of young talent on our list with which we can have a sustained run in the 8 in 3 - 5 years time. If that means another two years in the bottom 4 and maybe another spoon then so be it. We will just have to eat our vegetables and take the pain. The priority is definately not to just get a short term sugar high by winning a couple of extra games in the next two years to get off bottom place at the expense of throwing draft picks for more mature players who will have close to zero value over a 3 - 5 year time horizon.

I hope the club is really clear in it's head that all decisions must be made with a 3 - 5 year time horizon in mind and an immediate but unsustainable (and ultimately false) pick up in the form line over the next 1 - 2 two years by compromising the 3 - 5 year goals is not what supporters want to see.

 

[dinnaz]

Just read Sumich's column suggesting we trade for Grundy with Melbourne. What a stupid idea. My opinion of him has gone way down after reading that (assuming it was actually Sumich who wrote that and not a ghost writer/editor forcing that dumb idea into his column).

But it brings up the larger concern about whether the club is going to have it's head on straight with it's priorities regarding trading. Lots of media commentators are offering up opinions that are based on the premise that our priority is and should be to get some extra wins and get off bottom place as soon as possible at any cost. And based on that premise they suggest trading for 30 year olds like Grundy. Or they suggest we throw draft picks at somebody who is not 30 but has been in the system for quite a while (like Georgiades) and hasn't really cut it but who would probably perform better over the next 2 or 3 years than an 18 year old draftee would.

The priority is to build a base of young talent on our list with which we can have a sustained run in the 8 in 3 - 5 years time. If that means another two years in the bottom 4 and maybe another spoon then so be it. We will just have to eat our vegetables and take the pain. The priority is definately not to just get a short term sugar high by winning a couple of extra games in the next two years to get off bottom place at the expense of throwing draft picks for more mature players who will have close to zero value over a 3 - 5 year time horizon.

I hope the club is really clear in it's head that all decisions must be made with a 3 - 5 year time horizon in mind and an immediate but unsustainable (and ultimately false) pick up in the form line over the next 1 - 2 two years by compromising the 3 - 5 year goals is not what supporters want to see.

Same, I hope we don't bow to a weak board, Sack Simmo and trade away high end picks.
Id still trade in Grundy for a couple of 3rd rounders and to take his salary off Melbourne's books. We aren't realistically going to improve a lot with 1-2 players coming in the draft every year and the same amount retiring so why not take a few freebies if it's possible to do on the cheap.