List Mgmt. Contract, Trade & Draftee Discussion, 2023: Picks 1,20,34,39,53 ,58

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The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Out: Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew(R), Baker(R), Witherden, Burgiel, Culley(R), Rotham, L Edwards Traded - Darling (NM) Barrass (Hawthorn) In: Trade/FA acquisitions - Graham (Richmond) Baker (Richmond) Owies (Carlton) Draft - Allan (Pick 16) Shanahan (Pick 30) Gross...
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Link to Lore ’s excellent draft order thread that is updated to reflect current ladder positions

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Resource - 2023 AFL Draft Order

Every trade as it happens!
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Hillsy13 said:
Don’t forget the only reason we’re above north is cause they went over the interchange cap against Sydney which cost them the game


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Click to expand...

Yeah they blew like 3/4 games this season where they were so close to winning, this is why it stings so much lol.
 
WCEswift said:
Im a firm believer in different style mids, we have a shuey similar in hewett which i think mckercher is the same. Ginbey and culley are ball winners. I feel like we are missing a midfield driver/navigator... I kind of want Sanders. How does it happen? no idea obviously not 2 of 3
Click to expand...
I actually think mckercher is totally different to what weve got, he'd be perfect

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Hillsy13 said:
Don’t forget the only reason we’re above north is cause they went over the interchange cap against Sydney which cost them the game


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Click to expand...
Is it the only reason?

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Miguel Sanchez said:
Okay picture this:

The JHF debacle has made North wary of shackling a player with the tag of number 1 pick. They could have avoided it by bidding on Daicos but wanted the marketability of having a player that was number 1. Boy did that backfire.

So this time, to spare Reid that pressure, they bid on Walter first.

Then Gold Coast elect not to match.

Then we take Reid with pick 2.
Click to expand...
Someone much like yourself would pick this to pieces


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Miguel Sanchez said:
Doesn’t that prove the point though? The player you’d draft at number 1 every single draft didn’t go on to have as great a career.

Bigger issue - no number 1 pick has ever lifted a club off the bottom of the ladder and to a premiership. Headland’s the only one to have done the double and he had very little to do with Brisbane’s rise.

History shows you just can’t rely on one guy. You need a group.

It’s far more important that we nail the picks we have than just bringing in Reid.
Click to expand...
We do need everything but:
Richmond wouldn't have done shit without Dusty.
Likewise Melbourne without Petracca
2006 Eagles without Judd
These picks matter.

If we had Cotchin instead of Masten maybe we win two flags between 2015-2019
This year actually mirrors 2009 when we went from Dustin Martin to Sheppard with a couple meaningless late season wins. It didn't help the group because we copped the spoon in 2010. As for development only Lecras & Kennedy played from our 2018 flag side.
 
I'm going to ask people a pretty simple question. The past is the past and it all comes down to your own belief.

Assuming all stays the same and as a club we are 5 goals down in the first quarter of the 2018 grand final do people think the result would have been the same if we hadn't beaten port in the elimination final the year before? Do you think the players have that belief? I don't, as a matter of fact I think without that win the club wouldn't have gotten near a grand final in 2018.

Tough wins in big games build belief in a group of players. Tough wins, particularly away from home build belief in young players.

Here is something for people to take note of outside of the industry. Almost every quality AFL player going around has come from a club and junior background where they are used to winning, b&f after b&f, being absolute stars and being told they can do anything. Then they arriWve at AFL level and have to play against seasoned men and what do you know, all of a sudden you're the little fish in the big pond. Sure with high enough talent levels the really top end picks barring major injuries almost all end up at least decent players. However talent only takes you so far, if players get to the point where they either think it's too tough, are forever losing or worse think they can't make it then all the talent in the world won't save them let alone have them become potential top 5 in the league players. For some even high end talents the seasoned men on their own team can seem like being at a level they just can't compete with.

How many people here would have Jack Martin, Jake Stringer or Jordan De Goey in their best 5 players in the league? At absolute worst I'd have all 3 in the top 10 most talented in the league.
 
TerryFilk said:
Yeah they blew like 3/4 games this season where they were so close to winning, this is why it stings so much lol.
Click to expand...
West Coast:

Round 1. Lost in a close one to a full strength North.
Round 3. Would have beaten Fremantle less injuries. Wheels fall off season here.
Round 16. StKilda at home.
Round 21. Essendon at the death.

North:
Round 10. Interchange gate v Sydney.
Round 12. Bombers.
Round 19. Saints
Round 20. West Coast away. Opposite to round 1 although West Coast is still way under strength.


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Cuzz09 said:
It's not worth worrying about pick 19,20,21 etc we'll get who we get.

Need to introduce the draftees into a professional, well run club and get previous draftees to talk the place up to them and make it a smooth intro

None of this west coast nightmare club s**t
Click to expand...
No harm in sending Oscar Allen in for surgery/rest instead of strapping every single inch of him up.
McGovern could have been put in cotton wool after (dislocating?) his shoulder.
Play Trew and Chesser for full games.

FFS North already retired 2 of their best players a couple of weeks ago and no one bats an eyelid.
 

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WCE_phil said:
I'm going to ask people a pretty simple question. The past is the past and it all comes down to your own belief.

Assuming all stays the same and as a club we are 5 goals down in the first quarter of the 2018 grand final do people think the result would have been the same if we hadn't beaten port in the elimination final the year before? Do you think the players have that belief? I don't, as a matter of fact I think without that win the club wouldn't have gotten near a grand final in 2018.

Tough wins in big games build belief in a group of players. Tough wins, particularly away from home build belief in young players.

Here is something for people to take note of outside of the industry. Almost every quality AFL player going around has come from a club and junior background where they are used to winning, b&f after b&f, being absolute stars and being told they can do anything. Then they arriWve at AFL level and have to play against seasoned men and what do you know, all of a sudden you're the little fish in the big pond. Sure with high enough talent levels the really top end picks barring major injuries almost all end up at least decent players. However talent only takes you so far, if players get to the point where they either think it's too tough, are forever losing or worse think they can't make it then all the talent in the world won't save them let alone have them become potential top 5 in the league players. For some even high end talents the seasoned men on their own team can seem like being at a level they just can't compete with.

How many people here would have Jack Martin, Jake Stringer or Jordan De Goey in their best 5 players in the league? At absolute worst I'd have all 3 in the top 10 most talented in the league.
Click to expand...

And this is partly why Gold Coast have never amounted to anything and GWS have fallen short of maximising their talent
 
WCEswift said:
How do you have him? more link up?
Click to expand...
He's fast, can burst out of stoppages or blow by guys on the run, handball received from the extractor then go for it.or the old benny cousins handball recieved running around the back of the guy at a free kick

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WCE_phil said:
I'm going to ask people a pretty simple question. The past is the past and it all comes down to your own belief.

Assuming all stays the same and as a club we are 5 goals down in the first quarter of the 2018 grand final do people think the result would have been the same if we hadn't beaten port in the elimination final the year before? Do you think the players have that belief? I don't, as a matter of fact I think without that win the club wouldn't have gotten near a grand final in 2018.

Tough wins in big games build belief in a group of players. Tough wins, particularly away from home build belief in young players.

Here is something for people to take note of outside of the industry. Almost every quality AFL player going around has come from a club and junior background where they are used to winning, b&f after b&f, being absolute stars and being told they can do anything. Then they arriWve at AFL level and have to play against seasoned men and what do you know, all of a sudden you're the little fish in the big pond. Sure with high enough talent levels the really top end picks barring major injuries almost all end up at least decent players. However talent only takes you so far, if players get to the point where they either think it's too tough, are forever losing or worse think they can't make it then all the talent in the world won't save them let alone have them become potential top 5 in the league players. For some even high end talents the seasoned men on their own team can seem like being at a level they just can't compete with.

How many people here would have Jack Martin, Jake Stringer or Jordan De Goey in their best 5 players in the league? At absolute worst I'd have all 3 in the top 10 most talented in the league.
Click to expand...

I get the point you're trying to make..

However I don't think you can compare an elimination final played as underdogs at a hostile opposition home ground, in a dire affair which went to extra time and us winning legit after the siren... An actual TOUGH game..

To a simple round 23 home and away game following a record 100+pt drubbing in a Derby the week before by the very same players.

Absolutely nothing was riding on this game, other than our draft hand. If this win had of come any time before say, round 20 I'd have been happy enough. Why couldn't the players have done it then? Why didn't they show how much they "care for Simmo' in the majority of the past 22 games before this?

At this point of the year, all it's done is have a serious negative impact on our draft. Couldn't have just waited one more game until the season wraps up could we. Nope.

And no I don't think you ever tell players to not win... But there's not a single person on this planet that would say Oscar Allen doesn't need a rest. His season should have been put on ice weeks ago and a young player should've come in and given it 110%, with the class of the Bulldogs inevitably coming up Trump's today.

It's a big price to pay for a dopamine hit. Winning is good, I'm all for winning... But not in the 2nd last game of the year in a season finishing now 2nd last labelled as the worse AFL team of all time.

If today was so important to the young players, I'd hate to see what the 5 hundred point drubbings have done for them this year. Cheers for those Simpson and seniors 👍
 
Inside the walls of a footy club little things can make big differences. Do people seriously think that players are that stupid that sending everyone off early for surgery and the likes of resting players etc. isn't noticed by the players. The players are mostly a bunch of similarly aged guys with similar interests who mostly get along pretty well. They get to know when a player can still play and when they need to finish their season.

Allen playing and leading from the front is inspirational. This is the difference. People talk about pulling strings and doing this, that and sending players off for surgery and resting key players etc. etc. The players know if the coaching team, selection panel and admin aren't doing everything in their power to win. Allen playing at that level whilst injured sets a standard, Bailey Williams under extreme duress for most of the season giving 100% sets a standard, McGovern going back with the flight of the ball and getting smashed sets a standard.

Things in a football club are never as good or as bad as they seem, but for a club going through a rebuild the biggest thing you need to instill in the team is belief that everyone has your back. Wins like today may not seem like much (they may even seem detrimental to some), but long term they have a big effect on players and the clubs they play for.

I personally don't believe you can purely draft your way to a premiership anymore without extreme levels of luck (or concessions) so for me dropping from pick 1 to pick 2 is nigh on meaningless. The talent that will be there around pick 25-50 is pretty much identical and about who rates whom. For WCE sake I just hope they draft the right player with their first round pick, the club im working for has a first round pick in the dread zone of this years draft where there's plenty of talent but lots of red flags attached to each player.
 
WCE_phil said:
Inside the walls of a footy club little things can make big differences. Do people seriously think that players are that stupid that sending everyone off early for surgery and the likes of resting players etc. isn't noticed by the players. The players are mostly a bunch of similarly aged guys with similar interests who mostly get along pretty well. They get to know when a player can still play and when they need to finish their season.

Allen playing and leading from the front is inspirational. This is the difference. People talk about pulling strings and doing this, that and sending players off for surgery and resting key players etc. etc. The players know if the coaching team, selection panel and admin aren't doing everything in their power to win. Allen playing at that level whilst injured sets a standard, Bailey Williams under extreme duress for most of the season giving 100% sets a standard, McGovern going back with the flight of the ball and getting smashed sets a standard.

Things in a football club are never as good or as bad as they seem, but for a club going through a rebuild the biggest thing you need to instill in the team is belief that everyone has your back. Wins like today may not seem like much (they may even seem detrimental to some), but long term they have a big effect on players and the clubs they play for.

I personally don't believe you can purely draft your way to a premiership anymore without extreme levels of luck (or concessions) so for me dropping from pick 1 to pick 2 is nigh on meaningless. The talent that will be there around pick 25-50 is pretty much identical and about who rates whom. For WCE sake I just hope they draft the right player with their first round pick, the club im working for has a first round pick in the dread zone of this years draft where there's plenty of talent but lots of red flags attached to each player.
Click to expand...

Okay, so why could they not give the effort they gave today more often?

No one would be mad if they rocked up every week with that level of effort, the problem is they haven’t and they’ve made us sit through an absolutely pathetic season and then decide to win a completely meaningless game which has now cost us Reid.

People have a right to be angry that our big prize for sitting through this shit could end up being Zane ******* Duursma.
 
Ishmael_ said:
Alternatively we also need an offensive KPD to replace Gov and that's where Curtin would be a godsend. Barrass is a great defender but he's not going to hurt you off his own boot. A key defender that can intercept up the ground and then kill you by foot is about as rare as it gets in the AFL.
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Curtin gets to good places but doesn't intercept, in fact i'd say hes poor overhead.
 
Dark Sharks said:
However I don't think you can compare an elimination final played as underdogs at a hostile opposition home ground, in a dire affair which went to extra time and us winning legit after the siren... An actual TOUGH game..

To a simple round 23 home and away game following a record 100+pt drubbing in a Derby the week before by the very same players.

Absolutely nothing was riding on this game, other than our draft hand. If this win had of come any time before say, round 20 I'd have been happy enough. Why couldn't the players have done it then? Why didn't they show how much they "care for Simmo' in the majority of the past 22 games before this?

At this point of the year, all it's done is have a serious negative impact on our draft. Couldn't have just waited one more game until the season wraps up could we. Nope.
Click to expand...
without actually going back to look over the Port elimination final post-game thread (or the subsequent loss to Giants, for that matter), this is pretty much exactly what I remember many folks on this board carping on about back then :thumbsu:
 
The slide is from 1 to 2, or potentially even 3.

Then pick 19, which was worth a fair bit mind you, now also slides 2 spots to pick 21 potentially further to 22 depending on FA compo and worth very little. That pick is also now behind the Dockers first selection, so any highly rated WA talent which slips through... like Edwards or Tholstrop for example, now has to get past them as well.

We've also lost the ability to threaten to walk players to the PSD now we are no longer at the bottom, so that ace is gone from any trade talks too.


^ That's the full picture. All from one late win. For mine that pick 19 slide is a fair punch in the chad.
 
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