List Mgmt. Contracts, trades, draft - 2022 superstar edition

[Keys]

Link to contract status of all players -

The Contracts Thread

2024 List Changes : Retired- Gaff Delisted - Jones, Trew, Baker Requested Trades - Barrass, Darling Current contract status (Updated 18/9/24) : Total 41 Players (Pending Trades) - Main List (35) Rookie List (4) Cat B (2) Contracted to 2028 (2) : Liam Duggan (11/12/96) - Signed a 4 year...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Chump Change]

Sorry but I feel the need to correct you, again. Statistically speaking in the last 15 years, your best chances of an A+ player is from picks 7, 9 and 11 closely followed by picks 2 and 3. Pick 1 only has a 3 in 15 chance of being A+.


One thing to note - you don't let facts get in the way of your story. Got to love that never say die spirit.

The stats clearly show the majority of talent is in the top 4 picks...

 

[shooshka]

That narrows it down to dealing with 2 teams, if they make us an offer. And if they make us an offer, it means there has to be a gap between the player at 2 and the player at 4. So we should just take the player at 2.

Yes, it means there would be a gap between the players on their rankings.

There may not be on our rankings

That is the benefit of the trade. And why we would do it.

Lets go back to 2008, and lets say we had pick #1, and Melbourne had pick #2. If Melbourne thought we were ridiculously keen on Watts (and lets be honest - it was nuts for anyone to be keen on him over Nic) then who knows, they may have offered a decent trade to jump up 1 spot. We would have done it - as we get Nic anyway.

Of course, it is never as simple as the hypothetical, but the idea remains the same - if we have player rankings that are somewhat different to others - and we know (or are fairly certain that) others will take players we don't really want in between our traded in/out picks, then do the trade.

way, way, way to early to rule things in our out though. Or we may get a jet at 19/20/21 who turns into an A+ player and we get to have the argument all over again about how unlikely that is.

 

[Wce17]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on possibly trading next years First Rounder for a Second First Rounder this year. I’m thinking in the 8-14 pick range

It’s a risk as if we finish in the bottom 4 again we would be giving up a high pick. Personally I don’t think we are as bad as we look and I expect us too finish higher up the ladder next year which would mean we wouldn’t lose much Draft position & would add a extra years development for a kid.

I guess the question is if the talent this year is worth taking that risk. Was it Collingwood who did something similar and it backfired?

 

[Chump Change]

Yes, it means there would be a gap between the players on their rankings.

There may not be on our rankings

That is the benefit of the trade. And why we would do it.

Lets go back to 2008, and lets say we had pick #1, and Melbourne had pick #2. If Melbourne thought we were ridiculously keen on Watts (and lets be honest - it was nuts for anyone to be keen on him over Nic) then who knows, they may have offered a decent trade to jump up 1 spot. We would have done it - as we get Nic anyway.

Of course, it is never as simple as the hypothetical, but the idea remains the same - if we have player rankings that are somewhat different to others - and we know (or are fairly certain that) others will take players we don't really want in between our traded in/out picks, then do the trade.

way, way, way to early to rule things in our out though. Or we may get a jet at 19/20/21 who turns into an A+ player and we get to have the argument all over again about how unlikely that is.

Here's the problem;

It's all hypotheticals based on unrealistic scenarios. Trades at that end of the draft rarely happen (trade of two top 5 picks).

What we have on this board is quite a few people going, "I want Bruhn, I want Robertson etc, let split our pick". Brisbane don't even have a pick in that ball park. GWS, probably. But if they want to do a deal then they know like everyone else that a certain player has it going on. This is not a Chesser like deal in the mid teens.

I like Bruhn too, but would prefer to deal pick 19, pick 28 etc. I'm yet to see an offer for a top 2 pick that I would have taken (without the benefit of hindsight). The odds just don't stack up.

 

[Chump Change]

What’s everyone’s thoughts on possibly trading next years First Rounder for a Second First Rounder this year. I’m thinking in the 8-14 pick range

It’s a risk as if we finish in the bottom 4 again we would be giving up a high pick. Personally I don’t think we are as bad as we look and I expect us too finish higher up the ladder next year which would mean we wouldn’t lose much Draft position & would add a extra years development for a kid.

I guess the question is if the talent this year is worth taking that risk. Was it Collingwood who did something similar and it backfired?

Not for me. I think there's a good chance we are bottom 4 again next year. Those top 5 picks are gold. We still need to find that KPF to partner with OA and they don't grow on trees. There would have to be someone we are pretty sure on because all we are doing is staring development of said player a year early. There's a fair bit of conjecture about this draft which ranges from shit to average. No one is saying "super draft". What if next year is super draft?

 

[Keys]

Wake me up when it’s November

It’s going to be a long 5 months to draft day

 

[WCE_phil]

Not quite, but that's not the point.....

The point is marrying this to draft picks. Pretty much all the flag sides in the last 6 years have had 2x A+ players they got with top 5 draft picks.

So the point is, when you get those top 5 or top 2 or whatever, this is the best opportunity to get 2x A+.

Have a look at Sydney. Bud is no longer A+. Parker sort of is but soon to be on the way down. Mills is sort of there. Heeney sort of.

I think this side they have now will fall short. Time will tell.

I'd also argue Essendon. Parish for me is not really there. Stinger Bell is fat and insonsistent. McGrath, Shiel, etc not A+. They're going to need to find someone in the draft. What they have on their list won't go all the way.

Outside of coaching and hardness look at Essendon's side and tell me what they are lacking and it's certainly not top tier draft picks or midfielders. It's their Key position players, structure and will to win.

It's not about draft picks, it's not about A+ players on the list. You need the right mix and balance of talent across all lines with a competent structure, game plan, coaching, a **** load of luck and 30 AFL level players on your list ready to die for the team.

Yes you need a quality midfield. It has to get as close to breaking even with the competitor or you're shit out of luck.
Yes you need outside run and kicking skills to get the ball from defence to offence.
Yes you need a defence that with the midfield applying frontal pressure can stop 50% or more of inside 50's.
Yes you need forwards who can kick a score and you have to have a good mix, with at least one great tall target with quality smalls or two good tall targets with quality smalls.
You need leadership across all lines and players who are going to sacrifice their own game for the team. Even if that means they aren't flashy, aren't star players or are playing in a role they are good enough at but there is someone in the team who plays their primary role better.
You need on and off field coaching to keep up with changes in the game

Most of all you need all of the above happening and luck. Why do you need luck? Because clubs draft and trade in basically 8-10 year cycles and the AFL ****s with the rules almost every year. Another reason why you need luck is due to unavoidable injuries. You also need luck because you are playing with an oblong shaped ball on a non perfect surface generally in non perfect conditions.

Most of all it's not your best players that win you tight games and finals, it's the quality of your bottom six players that stop you losing them. The difference every year between winning the premiership and missing the finals is a few lucky games, unlucky injuries, great luck with injuries and the commitment to the team, fitness and determination to be better than the opposition. Oh and you have to be firing at the right time of the year.

But yeah please people go on and tell me you need a certain number of randomly generated A or A+ players and they have to be between certain draft picks.

Please, go and watch the 2018 grand final. Shuey was the highest rated player in recorded grand final history (player ratings for the match) but did he just march around as a superstar and win us the game? Maybe
Did that one amazing play finished by sheed kicking a perfect goal under extreme pressure win us the game? Maybe.
Buckley's coaching move to take the tag off Yeo and put it onto Shuey bringing Yeo into the game? Maybe.

I'll tell you what stopped us from losing the game.
The full team buying in even though we were shit out of luck and got blown out of the water in the first quarter and not laying down.
The same team that saw the first 2 goals of the final quarter again, not laying down and saying this is over.
Hutchings shutting down the oppositions most important player.
Schofield (the 21st man picked and only out there due to an injury to our star mid sized shut down defender) winning 11 consecutive one on ones.
Jetta helping marshall the defence and playing out the game even though he tore a calf muscle 5 minutes into the match, telling and trusting a 21 year old 26 game Tom Cole that he would need to cover his man as well.
McGovern playing a great game whilst under extreme duress.

Your A+ players and your supposed top 2 picks may look like superstars and make everything look easy in big wins. However in those super tight games under extreme pressure your opponent is going to have similar star power and abilities to blow you away. It's your bottom 6, team commitment, coaching and a fair bit of luck that stops you from losing.

St Kilda 2010. Most of your casual viewers, arm chair critics and the media will forget over time that is was one incredibly unlucky bounce of the ball that cost them a premiership. Were they the best side all day? No. Were they the best side that season? No. But they were hard as ****ing nails with a coach that extracted every single ounce they had out of them and a horrendous ball bounce turned a premiership into a draw. It broke the team and everyone saw how the replay went.

Go have 12-18 beers with Ashley Sampi and get him to open up about to 05 grand final and how his feelings about being pulled down and out of the final contest went. We're 17 years on and he still thinks that cost them the grand final, blames himself and it ruined his career.

So people can go on about a draft pick or a single player but success and a premiership is built over time with very close to equal measures of skill, determination and luck.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

The stats clearly show the majority of talent is in the top 4 picks...

But you stated previously that you would not bother looking at any trade that means we trade down from pick 1 or 2. Are you now saying that you would consider it so long as it was pick 3 or 4?

Are you changing your story? Have the facts of 15 years made you realise it was not just the top 2 picks?


As a reference point, GWS traded their way up the board in 2016. They were reportedly after McGrath to replace Heath Shaw as a rebounding HBF but ended up blocked by Essendon. Most pundits I read had McCluggage as the best option in the draft. I sense that Dodoro was having a Dodoro moment and was beating his chest saying no.

GWS held pick 7. They then traded 7 and McCathy and later picks for 3 with Freo

GWS then traded 3 and some later picks with Brisbane for picks 2.

GWS could not convince Essendon and hence went Toronto as I believe he offered a skill set they were missing.

Are you related to Dodoro by chance because he comes across as single minded and not open to offers. Sorry, I am digressing

The Lions must have realised the errors of their way the previous year in keeping 2 and going for Schache and decided the risk was worth it. In my opinion, Lions picked up the best player in the draft at pick 3. I know you will probably be tuned out now but here is another win in trading down. GWS included pick 16 in the deal to trade down and the Lions got Jarrod Berry with pick 16.

According to your theory, Lions were silly to be open to a trade down and the selection of Toronto was worth more than McCluggage and Berry.

 

[WestCoast05]

Schofield (the 21st man picked and only out there due to an injury to our star mid sized shut down defender) winning 11 consecutive one on ones.

It's this one.
The answer is this one.

 

[squashface]

Gee how many posts are you campaigners going to make me scroll through tonight?

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

Yes. Floated. As a possibility, not as a definite.

Hey Miguel Sanchez - I thought I was having to deal with this guy on my own. So I was thinking where is my magic potion

Then I realised there were others having trouble with what was being dribbled. And no need for magic potion, welcome tag team

 

[BOND 007]

Gee - and I thought some of the meetings I have attended have been bogged down in mindless rhubarb.

 

[Turboman1994]

No secret we need A plus talent we are going to be shit for a while. Picks 1/2 19/20 24-27 and 37-40 is a good start

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

On to matters now - seeing Joyce has 3 weeks on his injury and we are at round 15, he is a real risk of being delisted and he has not had a chance to show anything but the fact he is injury prone. Not surprising that our medical team had to find out the hard way that they are not better than Brisbane's team.

Pity because he as a lot of ability, just not availability.

Similar feeling with Trew and his knee (this time).

Two prime candidates for the chop come year end

 

[Chump Change]

But you stated previously that you would not bother looking at any trade that means we trade down from pick 1 or 2. Are you now saying that you would consider it so long as it was pick 3 or 4?

So the only example you have is GWS who had high picks coming out of their ears.

Any others?

And what do you think the chance is that someone comes to us and wants to swap 3 or 4 with 1 or 2? Because on here, people aren't saying "if someone offers, we should consider", they're saying, "we should go out and try to trade our pick to get <insert ex-WA player here>.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

“People”

 

[Chad in Vegas]

Gee - and I thought some of the meetings I have attended have been bogged down in mindless rhubarb.

with apple inside a pie, I assume?

 

[dewcefault]

Cotchin. Reiwoldt. 700 goals and 23rd on the all time goal kickers list. How's he not an A+? Rance is pretty close too. He'd be in the top 10 full backs of all time. The only knock on him is he's not a mid or KPF.

Cotchin is an A- player. Reiwoldt similar. He's kicked a lot of goal when Richmond were a poor side and he was the only avenue to goal.

You'd note that when they were winning Riewoldt was no longer the focal point that he was early in his career. The addition of Tom Lynch was the piece that allowed them to go back to back.
Rance is highly regarded by teh Vic media and was very good but he was overblown in terms of impact. This board and others regularly complained around how overrated he was.

Dusty is the universal this guy is a gun people hate him but noone calls him overrated. That's A+

 

[SumaGodCoach]

with apple inside a pie, I assume?

 

[RookiePick]

Jack Reiwoldt is/was a very good player. Buddy, JK and Jack are the premier Key Forwards of their generation.

 

[Chump Change]

Cotchin is an A- player. Reiwoldt similar. He's kicked a lot of goal when Richmond were a poor side and he was the only avenue to goal.

You'd note that when they were winning Riewoldt was no longer the focal point that he was early in his career. The addition of Tom Lynch was the piece that allowed them to go back to back.
Rance is highly regarded by teh Vic media and was very good but he was overblown in terms of impact. This board and others regularly complained around how overrated he was.

Dusty is the universal this guy is a gun people hate him but noone calls him overrated. That's A+

700+ goals and he's not A+......

Put the crack pipe down son, you're making a fool of yourself.

 

[Chump Change]

“People”

Everyone knows there are people saying that. Not sure who you think you're fooling?

 

[bzparkes]

Dusty is the universal this guy is a gun people hate him but noone calls him overrated. That's A+

Does anyone actually hate Dusty though? Apart from a couple of off-dield incidents when younger, he seems like a pretty chill guy.

-Not dirty on the field.

-Not an umpire's pet.

-Low-profile off field these days.

-Not a FIGJAM

-Gun player to boot.

Can't help but admire the bloke.

 

[Chump Change]

Does anyone actually hate Dusty though? Apart from a couple of off-dield incidents when younger, he seems like a pretty chill guy.

-Not dirty on the field.

-Not an umpire's pet.

-Low-profile off field these days.

-Not a FIGJAM

-Gun player to boot.

Can't help but admire the bloke.

I've never met anyone who doesn't like him. He's a champion. His hair cut is a champion. His neck tattoo is a champion. He is the only person in the history of the world who can wear a neck tatt and not be ridiculed for being a complete douche. Hail Dusty.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

So the only example you have is GWS who had high picks coming out of their ears.

Any others?

And what do you think the chance is that someone comes to us and wants to swap 3 or 4 with 1 or 2? Because on here, people aren't saying "if someone offers, we should consider", they're saying, "we should go out and try to trade our pick to get <insert ex-WA player here>.

I thought you might be lazy then I did some work. Any others? As a matter of fact - yes. And I am sorry to say that it further embarrasses you.

Picks stated as where granted when the season finished and does not include slide back for F/S, FA or Compo
2019 - picks 3, 6 and 8 traded
2018 - pick 4 traded
2017 - picks 2 and 7 traded
2016 - picks 2, 3, 6 7, and 8 traded
2015 - picks 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10 all traded
2014 - picks 4, 5, and 6 traded
2013 - picks 2, 6 and 8 traded
201 - picks 2 and 3 traded

I am sue you will be able to invalidate all 26 of these example.

I love debating with you. You make such sweeping statements, when challenged for examples you have very little idea of what happens and are starting to show signs that you belong to the knights who say "ni".