Toast Contributions to success
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**** Ned Guy, almost destroyed the club with those ludicrous contracts - we won this in spite of him.
Buckley is almost as culpable from his "I don't want to know what my players are paid" attitude. As head coach he had a duty to know Grundy was getting 1 mil per season and to tell the list manager that his output on the field was not worth that. If the senior coach is not providing that kind of feedback (cost to performance output) then who is?
I think we can acknowledge Buckley providing some foundations for our defensive work, fair enough. Buckley is a legend of the club and I wish him nothing but the best. But lets not pretend if Buckley was still in charge that we win the flag. If Buckley had of "managed the minutes" like Fly then we don't lose in 2018.
Buckley is almost as culpable from his "I don't want to know what my players are paid" attitude. As head coach he had a duty to know Grundy was getting 1 mil per season and to tell the list manager that his output on the field was not worth that. If the senior coach is not providing that kind of feedback (cost to performance output) then who is?
I think we can acknowledge Buckley providing some foundations for our defensive work, fair enough. Buckley is a legend of the club and I wish him nothing but the best. But lets not pretend if Buckley was still in charge that we win the flag. If Buckley had of "managed the minutes" like Fly then we don't lose in 2018.
- Nov 13, 2008
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I think you'll find that the fly doesn't concern himself with the contracts and the person who oversees all of this is the general manager ....currently wright and previously geoff walsh who washed his hands of fixing the ned guy mess as you called it.
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- #54
I think you’ll find that Ned Guy is the least culpable of all the list management stakeholder group. He put in place what he was told.
I am not talking about negotiating the contracts, I am aware its not Fly's job to get the deal done. But does Fly know how much each player gets paid? Because Buckley refused to have this knowledge. I'd be surprised if Fly didn't, how can you not? Fly made it pretty clear he was part of telling Grundy he was not a required player.... surely that was to do with his contract size, not his performance as a player. If Fly is not part of discussions with Wright about what players are worth I would be shocked (as I was when Buckley admitted that he was not).
jmac70
On the porch
I’ll deal with the difficult parents. Fly is too nice to nice to cope with their shit.
- Nov 13, 2008
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This was written by Michael Gleeson of the Age at the time that Ned Guy left.....I've bolded the best bits for those who have trouble picking out the relevant points in an article.....
"Guy arrived at the end of 2017 and inherited a salary cap that had for years back-ended and extended contracts to push problems down the road with large, long-term deals.
He was responsible for bringing Dayne Beams back to the club, which involved not only a high-priced, long-term contract but cost the club two first-round draft picks.
That deal was done on the basis that Beams was a top-10 midfield talent in the league coming into a side that was a kick off a premiership, but also with significant pressure from the board to bring the former Magpies premiership player back to the club from Brisbane.
He also signed Brodie Grundy to a seven-year deal worth about $925,000 a year amid strong pressure from the board to retain the ruckman and in a climate of a hemorrhaging salary cap where the only way to retain Grundy was to commit to a long-term deal.
A player manager before joining Collingwood as list manager, he is expected to stay in football but is unlikely to return to player management.
Collingwood’s football department has been a revolving door for football heads. Coach Nathan Buckley has had seven football managers in his 12 years coaching the club.
Geoff Walsh was there when Buckley took over before Walsh left for North Melbourne to be replaced by Rodney Eade, who later quit to coach Gold Coast.
Eade was replaced by Neil Balme until Graeme Allan was brought in. Allan was then suspended and Marcus Wagner was briefly made the interim head before Walsh returned. This year Wright arrived to replace Walsh after his retirement."
"Guy arrived at the end of 2017 and inherited a salary cap that had for years back-ended and extended contracts to push problems down the road with large, long-term deals.
He was responsible for bringing Dayne Beams back to the club, which involved not only a high-priced, long-term contract but cost the club two first-round draft picks.
That deal was done on the basis that Beams was a top-10 midfield talent in the league coming into a side that was a kick off a premiership, but also with significant pressure from the board to bring the former Magpies premiership player back to the club from Brisbane.
He also signed Brodie Grundy to a seven-year deal worth about $925,000 a year amid strong pressure from the board to retain the ruckman and in a climate of a hemorrhaging salary cap where the only way to retain Grundy was to commit to a long-term deal.
A player manager before joining Collingwood as list manager, he is expected to stay in football but is unlikely to return to player management.
Collingwood’s football department has been a revolving door for football heads. Coach Nathan Buckley has had seven football managers in his 12 years coaching the club.
Geoff Walsh was there when Buckley took over before Walsh left for North Melbourne to be replaced by Rodney Eade, who later quit to coach Gold Coast.
Eade was replaced by Neil Balme until Graeme Allan was brought in. Allan was then suspended and Marcus Wagner was briefly made the interim head before Walsh returned. This year Wright arrived to replace Walsh after his retirement."
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I've had a question from the outer about the article that I posted above. It says that "Guy arrived at the end of 2017 and inherited a salary cap that had for years back-ended and extended contracts to push problems down the road with large, long-term deals."
The question that I was asked was who was the List manater before Ned Guy? Well I cant tell anyone because Derek Hine swore me to secrecy....
The question that I was asked was who was the List manater before Ned Guy? Well I cant tell anyone because Derek Hine swore me to secrecy....
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- #61
Haha, another poor decision by the board! Disastrous
- Nov 13, 2008
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Actually, the person making the decisions before Ned Guy wasn't the board. It was Derek during his "I'm in charge of everything" period. I think that you'll find that he refused to report to Rodney Eade when Eade was GM and would only report to the Board....and I dont think they really cared too much because he just kicked the salary bill down the road...
so in the end, I dont mind buckley getting nailed for his mistakes, but lets nail Geoff Walsh for his lack of leadership and Teflon Derek Hine for the salary problems that he apparently started...
but no...lets not....easier and more fun to blame buckley
- Nov 13, 2008
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While we talking about Buckley, we didnt mention how he stuffed up the fitness of the players. With the help of Kevin White in 2019, who was the high performance manager, Buckley delivered this injury list
PLAYERS ON INJURY/SUSPENSION LIST (19):
Taylor Adams (hamstring — TBC),
James Aish (shoulder — TBC),
Dayne Beams (hip — Indefinite),
Jordan De Goey (hamstring — 2-3 weeks),
Lynden Dunn (knee — Season),
Levi Greenwood (hamstring — TBC),
Will Kelly (hamstring — TBC),
Tom Langdon (knee — season),
Darcy Moore (hamstring — 2-3 weeks),
Nathan Murphy (back — test),
John Noble (calf — test),
Tom Phillips (collarbone — test),
Isaac Quaynor (foot stress — 3-4 weeks),
Ben Reid (hamstring — TBC),
Jordan Roughead (concussion — test),
Daniel Wells (knee — 5 weeks),
Brayden Sier (calf — Test)
Kevin White, you might remember came over from Ireland as an exchange student straight out of whatever schools that they have in Ireland and followed the high performance managers around for a few years and then took over because he was such a good bloke.
He left when Wright came in.... we could persuade him to stay.....and he went to...........North Melbourne where they are one of the fittest teams in the AFL...
so Buckley is to blame again...
PLAYERS ON INJURY/SUSPENSION LIST (19):
Taylor Adams (hamstring — TBC),
James Aish (shoulder — TBC),
Dayne Beams (hip — Indefinite),
Jordan De Goey (hamstring — 2-3 weeks),
Lynden Dunn (knee — Season),
Levi Greenwood (hamstring — TBC),
Will Kelly (hamstring — TBC),
Tom Langdon (knee — season),
Darcy Moore (hamstring — 2-3 weeks),
Nathan Murphy (back — test),
John Noble (calf — test),
Tom Phillips (collarbone — test),
Isaac Quaynor (foot stress — 3-4 weeks),
Ben Reid (hamstring — TBC),
Jordan Roughead (concussion — test),
Daniel Wells (knee — 5 weeks),
Brayden Sier (calf — Test)
Kevin White, you might remember came over from Ireland as an exchange student straight out of whatever schools that they have in Ireland and followed the high performance managers around for a few years and then took over because he was such a good bloke.
He left when Wright came in.... we could persuade him to stay.....and he went to...........North Melbourne where they are one of the fittest teams in the AFL...
so Buckley is to blame again...
sr36
TheBrownDog
My view is that Bucks is a Collingwood great as a player. As a coach, he worked really hard and became competent in a role he wasn't naturally suited to.
He did the easy part of coaching well - which is setting up defensive structures, but setting up systems to attack or managing and getting the best out of his players weren't strengths.
Bucks is a Collingwood legend as one of our all time great players. He is extremely knowledgeable and a brilliant media commentator. He is also very personable and bleeds black and white.
He was a poor Captain as he was not good at communicating with all players. He expected every player to meet high standards he held himself too. The club sent him for leadership training during his Captaincy. This carried over into his coaching where he surrounded himself with yes men and belligerently coached his way and his way only. He was a poor delegator. He is genuinely a nice bloke but failed to communicate well to the playing group and refused to evolve with the game.
Macraes key to success is business 101. He surrounds himself with leaders and delegates well. He is not intimidated by his support coaches challenging him. He bravely brought in Bolton(former head coach) Leppitsch(former head coach) Hayden Skipworth, Scott Selwood, Josh Fraser, Neville Jetta, Jordan Roughead and Andy Ottens. Its a formidable group. Notebly Leppitsch refused to apply for the Richmond job choosing to stay with this group. Add to this the incredible appointment of Jarrod Wade in contrast to the maligned fitness managers that Buckley had and you have a complete package.
Yes, some of this playing group played under Bucks but recall Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Cox amongst others looked slow and done in Bucks last year. Macrae has rejuvenated the senior group.
The appointment of Graeme Wright as the master manipulator of change was inspired. He had the tenacity to move Bucks aside and Bucks himself said last week it wasn't his choice.
Bucks has such a huge ego that he will feel he missed out with this group but he figuratively had 10 years which is more than enough time to win a flag.
Macrae brought the Clarkson, Hardwick and Matthews style to the club and let Bolton and Leppitsch tweek it and made it his own. Macrae brought engagement with the fans after severe disengagement during Buckleys tenure. Buckley wanted to be a coach. Macrae embraced everyone.
Bucks is a Collingwood legend but his imprint on this team left when he left. We live in the moment, not in the past.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
He was a poor Captain as he was not good at communicating with all players. He expected every player to meet high standards he held himself too. The club sent him for leadership training during his Captaincy. This carried over into his coaching where he surrounded himself with yes men and belligerently coached his way and his way only. He was a poor delegator. He is genuinely a nice bloke but failed to communicate well to the playing group and refused to evolve with the game.
Macraes key to success is business 101. He surrounds himself with leaders and delegates well. He is not intimidated by his support coaches challenging him. He bravely brought in Bolton(former head coach) Leppitsch(former head coach) Hayden Skipworth, Scott Selwood, Josh Fraser, Neville Jetta, Jordan Roughead and Andy Ottens. Its a formidable group. Notebly Leppitsch refused to apply for the Richmond job choosing to stay with this group. Add to this the incredible appointment of Jarrod Wade in contrast to the maligned fitness managers that Buckley had and you have a complete package.
Yes, some of this playing group played under Bucks but recall Pendlebury, Sidebottom and Cox amongst others looked slow and done in Bucks last year. Macrae has rejuvenated the senior group.
The appointment of Graeme Wright as the master manipulator of change was inspired. He had the tenacity to move Bucks aside and Bucks himself said last week it wasn't his choice.
Bucks has such a huge ego that he will feel he missed out with this group but he figuratively had 10 years which is more than enough time to win a flag.
Macrae brought the Clarkson, Hardwick and Matthews style to the club and let Bolton and Leppitsch tweek it and made it his own. Macrae brought engagement with the fans after severe disengagement during Buckleys tenure. Buckley wanted to be a coach. Macrae embraced everyone.
Bucks is a Collingwood legend but his imprint on this team left when he left. We live in the moment, not in the past.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
sr36
TheBrownDog
Imagine if Craig McRae had have taken over that 2012 team that Bucks inherited - they wouldn't have all fallen off a cliff or left. There would have been flags in that decade.
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- #68
He got a pretty injury prone and weak list to within an umpires call of a premiership in 2018. We attacked pretty well that year…the players were constantly under the pump from external pressures. It wasn’t a happy place, this wasn’t because Buckley was nasty coach but because of the attention on the club at the time. They were besieged.
Again this isn’t about determining whether Buckley should have coached on or at all, it’s that he has an undeniably positive impact on the club and the playing list…if we had a weaker personality leading us through those challenging and somewhat dark times we may have lost all our talent and been a lot worse off. The players played for him to the end! Just look at the last game. He was selfless.
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- #69
This is another perfect example of structures making it both impossible to succeed…I think part of it was also the firm training ground. That was changed and things seemed to improve.
Anzacday
Moderator
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- #71
Take a leaf out of Fly’s book, glass half full kinda guy.
Doesn’t concern himself with the past, (other than honouring it).
Worked well for us so far and I reckon we as supporters should adopt the same attitude.
Bucks has run and is done, might be time to move on hey?
Doesn’t concern himself with the past, (other than honouring it).
Worked well for us so far and I reckon we as supporters should adopt the same attitude.
Bucks has run and is done, might be time to move on hey?
Vicky Park
Premium Platinum
Re the bolded - when did we change the training surface? There was a lot of talk on here for several years about the surface being responsible for our plague of soft tissue injuries during Bucks’ era.
But it was never seriously blamed - surely? More likely training methods and loads were the cause? Changes and improvements came with the appointment of Wade. Bless him.
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manicpie
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Maggie5
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One can still think about 'what if' Bucks didn't have that messy handover, a divided board, an outspoken President, revolving door football managers, a list that many were 'done', all the talk about racism etc instead of being all on the same page as is the situation right now.
I am more surprised that he stayed as coach with all those things against him succeeding.
