Toast Contributions to success

[Maggie5]

You had me until the last phrase. We don't know what the facts are. It's a lot of innuendo and guesses about the previous coach, the grass, the assistant coaches, the list manager, the footy department head, the list manager, the president and of course the head coach. For the first half of Bucks's coaching gig - we just looked everywhere else other than the all time great player of the club who was head coach. s**t happens. It might have been a combination of all that turned a really strong position into a mediocre decade. But we're back at the top, so not worth trawling through the past to point the finger of blame at what our biased views have decided is the reason for that mediocrity. Also not worth selectively choosing which ones to praise. Just thank them all for their hard work and effort and try to stay at the top.

All of the bold are well documented as issues and are not innuendo nor guesses.

Fact:
Collingwood’s football department has been a revolving door for football heads. Coach Nathan Buckley has had seven football managers in his 12 years coaching the club.

 

[Markfs]

You had me until the last phrase. We don't know what the facts are. It's a lot of innuendo and guesses about the previous coach, the grass, the assistant coaches, the list manager, the footy department head, the list manager, the president and of course the head coach. For the first half of Bucks's coaching gig - we just looked everywhere else other than the all time great player of the club who was head coach. s**t happens. It might have been a combination of all that turned a really strong position into a mediocre decade. But we're back at the top, so not worth trawling through the past to point the finger of blame at what our biased views have decided is the reason for that mediocrity. Also not worth selectively choosing which ones to praise. Just thank them all for their hard work and effort and try to stay at the top.

I dont disagree and let me say it again, I dont disagree that many people didnt want buckley to take any blame. However, I will say again that there were and are a lot of people who want to blame tomorrow's rain on buckley. I just think the answer lies somewhere in the middle. There were others involved and they were hopeless.

I never heard an argument that geoff walsh should have got the sack and if that had happened earlier, a lot of the crap wouldnt have happened...at least that's my opinion.

And yes, these discussions are getting boring. However, I say again that more than half a dozen people called SEN on Monday and gave eloquent thanks to nathan buckley....well spoken, thoughtful people. Not the usual types that inhabit sites like these. So the buckley haters might think they're right but I have a feeling that there are a lot of non-social media pie fans out there who have a different view.

 

[Markfs]

That wouldn't surprise me. I think the ability to delegate and recognise strengths in others is one of flys best attributes. He does not lead with ego. He is more your manager style. I doubt many coaches would give their assistance as much input and trust as much as fly does.

So he is right not to wear the mchale medal... I agree with him.

 

[Markfs]

If you were asking for my opinion you would have phrased your question differently. You simply stated your own and added a question mark.

I must be from another era. Maybe it's the spanish in me......The spanish make a statement and then put "no?" at the end. Listen to rafa nadal.

"I have got big balls, no?"

It is a way to frame a question...

 

[Bianconeri]

I must be from another era. Maybe it's the spanish in me......The spanish make a statement and then put "no?" at the end. Listen to rafa nadal.

"I have got big balls, no?"

It is a way to frame a question...

Okay, I’ll answer that question in good faith.

I think Buckley has a lot of self belief. It’s part of what made him a successful player. His self belief in his coaching ability is however misplaced.

Buckley is able to front up to media and appear humble, truly arrogant people can’t do that.

You seem to think I blame Buckley for everything?

 

[sr36]

All of the bold are well documented as issues and are not innuendo nor guesses.

Fact:
Collingwood’s football department has been a revolving door for football heads. Coach Nathan Buckley has had seven football managers in his 12 years coaching the club.

The fact is the change. The rest of it it is rumour, innuendo and guess. We had a revolving door of all positions other than the coaching dept ... Other than Allan's suspension, the reasons for change are rumour and innuendo and how much that impacted onfield performance is a complete guess.

 

[Maggie5]

The fact is the change. The rest of it it is rumour, innuendo and guess. We had a revolving door of all positions other than the coaching dept ... Other than Allan's suspension, the reasons for change are rumour and innuendo and how much that impacted onfield performance is a complete guess.

Sorry don't agree that all of the things I mentioned didn't impact on field.

Perhaps, just agree to disagree as I firmly believe he didn't have the support that is needed to be successfully on field and under the circumstance doesn't deserve the hate and criticism he got/gets.

The only thing I really don't get is why he stuck with his assistants for as long as he did and guess unless he writes a tell all, we will never know.

 

[Markfs]

Okay, I’ll answer that question in good faith.

I think Buckley has a lot of self belief. It’s part of what made him a successful player. His self belief in his coaching ability is however misplaced.

Buckley is able to front up to media and appear humble, truly arrogant people can’t do that.

You seem to think I blame Buckley for everything?

No but there are many around. I've wasted many years in this forum and it goes right back to when he took over from Michael Malthouse....in fact it goes back to the days in the 1990s when he was driven to succeed and couldnt tolerate lack of commitment from his team-mates. I say that not as my opinion but the opinion of Tony Shaw who is both a buckley supporter and well aware of his deficiencies in those days especially.

Many Pie supporters - and I use that term loosely - thought that was arrogance and hated him for it.

The problem with that approach, as I see it, is that they hate buckley so much and blame him for everything and they fail to look at geoff walsh and derek hine who had a disastrous term as a list manager - recruiter. They fail to look at the irish performance manager who presided over a ton of soft tissue injuries and the list goes on.

So to me it's like evaluating the mistakes in a game wrongly. You come out with the incorrect conclusion that all you have to do is to change the coach. Fortunately, graham wright was there.

 

[Anzacday]

Doing a wonderful job there Mark, almost like you've reinvented yourself.

 

[Markfs]

Doing a wonderful job there Mark, almost like you've reinvented yourself.

I dont feel that I have. Maybe you haven't been reading my drivel long enough.....

At any rate, I got triggered (is that the modern talk?) by a load of campaigners (again?) who were doing the buckley-bash and I just wanted to state my case for my own piece of mind. But having done that, I might return to my usual modus operandi.

 

[larrikan]

My opinion was based on evidence and my perspective. You can call it a story and put down posters but the narrative has gotten so far away from is Bucks responsible for this flag.

These Bucks threads always end up being divisive. Sorry i got involved.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Markfs]

My opinion was based on evidence and my perspective. You can call it a story and put down posters but the narrative has gotten so far away from is Bucks responsible for this flag.

These Bucks threads always end up being divisive. Sorry i got involved.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

gee whiz....i did that trigger thing again. Larrikin....talk about false advertising.

I know you'll never come back but I think your failure was to call buckley a failed communicator. He got his team to the grand final and was within 30 seconds of winning it. Doesn't that say something positive about his coaching?

Read this for a more balanced assessment of buckley

Lessons In Leadership: What We Can Learn From Nathan Buckley | Leah Mether

When Nathan Buckley first started coaching Collingwood 10 years ago, he led his players as he liked to be led.

www.leahmether.com.au

 

[sr36]

The only thing I really don't get is why he stuck with his assistants for as long as he did and guess unless he writes a tell all, we will never know.

That paragraph sums it up for me. For years, even when we had doubts about the coaching, it was Robert Harvey to blame.

 

[Markfs]

That paragraph sums it up for me. For years, even when we had doubts about the coaching, it was Robert Harvey to blame.

funny you say that. I think it wsa his podcast where Pendles said that he learnt the most from Harvey.

Not that i'm saying that proves harvey had any worth. i've always been suspicious that pendles is a buckley clone. He just doesnt cuddle enough for my liking.

 

[Maggie5]

That paragraph sums it up for me. For years, even when we had doubts about the coaching, it was Robert Harvey to blame.

I never blamed him.

 

[sr36]

I never blamed him.

You did just question why we didn't move on Bucks's assistant coaches earlier. Apologies if that wasn't a reference to Harvey.

Anyway. Wright came in and within a couple of months he moved on Bucks and it's been onwards and upwards. Maybe me view of Nathan's coaching is wrong, but based on what we saw and have seen since, it seems pretty likely that coaching wasn't a strength for that decade.

 

[Markfs]

You did just question why we didn't move on Bucks's assistant coaches earlier. Apologies if that wasn't a reference to Harvey.

Anyway. Wright came in and within a couple of months he moved on Bucks and it's been onwards and upwards. Maybe me view of Nathan's coaching is wrong, but based on what we saw and have seen since, it seems pretty likely that coaching wasn't a strength for that decade.

If you read that lessons in leadership thing that I posted, it reinforces probably something that you already knew. That Buckley changed his style after 3 or 4 years and tried more hugging and all the stuff that macrae does. Buckley said recently that his marriage breakdown probably assisted in making connections with the players because he actually questioned himself etc....

so in short, I am saying that by 2018 buckley is a poorman's version of the fly regarding people skills.

Then the salary cap thing blew up and buckley thought that he had to be the one to do the deed on Treloar so that he broke that caring relationship and the rest of the player group saw it and he lost them....he lost them because he was seen to return to the fixated achiever that was obsessed by winning a premiership.

So he had to be thrown out. Wright did the right thing. He told buckley that his relationship with the players couldnt be mended and it was better if he left....

So it wasnt the usual narrative of figjam figjam and more figjam and arrogance and more arrogance. It was more of a journey.

And yes, he had to go and no, he probably wouldnt have won a premiership post treloar.

But geez, he wasnt given much assistance by that lump Walsh. The gutless wonder just "retired" or so he said...

 

[sr36]

If you read that lessons in leadership thing that I posted, it reinforces probably something that you already knew. That Buckley changed his style after 3 or 4 years and tried more hugging and all the stuff that macrae does. Buckley said recently that his marriage breakdown probably assisted in making connections with the players because he actually questioned himself etc....

so in short, I am saying that by 2018 buckley is a poorman's version of the fly regarding people skills.

Then the salary cap thing blew up and buckley thought that he had to be the one to do the deed on Treloar so that he broke that caring relationship and the rest of the player group saw it and he lost them....he lost them because he was seen to return to the fixated achiever that was obsessed by winning a premiership.

So he had to be thrown out. Wright did the right thing. He told buckley that his relationship with the players couldnt be mended and it was better if he left....

So it wasnt the usual narrative of figjam figjam and more figjam and arrogance and more arrogance. It was more of a journey.

And yes, he had to go and no, he probably wouldnt have won a premiership post treloar.

But geez, he wasnt given much assistance by that lump Walsh. The gutless wonder just "retired" or so he said...

One thing I'd never doubt is Bucks's ability to work hard and get better at anything he does. I wouldn't be surprised if he has another crack at coaching and is more successful. But I do think we had the shit years of his coaching career.

My guess is that COVID was the thing that really stuffed him more than Treloar. We'd had the 2017 review. He'd been told to chill out back off and give the assistants some scope and it worked brilliantly. Then all of a sudden footy departments are cut and they're in a hub 24/7 and it all becomes natural behaviour because you can't do a workplace persona 24/7. So the socially aware delegating hugger that he was working his arse off to become at work would have slipped and it's back to perfectionist who focusses on mistakes, which is what made him a great player, but the last thing a coach should be. Or in other words Macrae believes it and lives it - it's him. Or he's a fantastic actor. Bucks tried to become it to be better at his job.

 

[Markfs]

One thing I'd never doubt is Bucks's ability to work hard and get better at anything he does. I wouldn't be surprised if he has another crack at coaching and is more successful. But I do think we had the s**t years of his coaching career.

My guess is that COVID was the thing that really stuffed him more than Treloar. We'd had the 2017 review. He'd been told to chill out back off and give the assistants some scope and it worked brilliantly. Then all of a sudden footy departments are cut and they're in a hub 24/7 and it all becomes natural behaviour because you can't do a workplace persona 24/7. So the socially aware delegating hugger that he was working his arse off to become at work would have slipped and it's back to perfectionist who focusses on mistakes, which is what made him a great player, but the last thing a coach should be. Or in other words Macrae believes it and lives it - it's him. Or he's a fantastic actor.

well your guess is as good as mine but i think walsh took his hands off the wheel and buckley was forced to do his job. Part-time in charge of the footy dept?????? Geez

"The decision is not unexpected, as Walsh had been contemplating his future for more than 12 months and had considered an option to pull back to part-time."

Collingwood footy head Geoff Walsh announces retirement

Veteran Collingwood head of football Geoff Walsh has announced his retirement.

www.theage.com.au

 

[magpies42]

All of the bold are well documented as issues and are not innuendo nor guesses.

Fact:
Collingwood’s football department has been a revolving door for football heads. Coach Nathan Buckley has had seven football managers in his 12 years coaching the club.

Not even a coaching team of Leigh Matthews, Kevin Sheedy, Damian Hardwick and Alastair Clarkson would have performed better over the same period and under the same conditions. It’s remarkable that the club was left in a state that enabled somebody else to come in and deliver what has been achieved over such a short period of time. Either Fly is the Bobby Knights of AFL or maybe Buckley did a lot right, and should be acknowledged as having contributed to the success. I believe in the latter, much like voting yes in the referendum doesn’t make you a left wing extremist, I think we can reflect on Buckleys contribution without taking away from the current administrations brilliance.

 

[kartanoman]

Not even a coaching team of Leigh Matthews, Kevin Sheedy, Damian Hardwick and Alastair Clarkson would have performed better over the same period and under the same conditions. It’s remarkable that the club was left in a state that enabled somebody else to come in and deliver what has been achieved over such a short period of time. Either Fly is the Bobby Knights of AFL or maybe Buckley did a lot right, and should be acknowledged as having contributed to the success. I believe in the latter, much like voting yes in the referendum doesn’t make you a left wing extremist, I think we can reflect on Buckleys contribution without taking away from the current administrations brilliance.

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and everyone's contributions to it. Upon our boys achieving the ultimate success under Craig McRae and his coaching staff, Graham Wright and his football operation, President Jeffrey Browne and his administration, this collective group put the formula together in 2023 to achieve a Premiership Football Campaign for the ages.

No matter whether we are discussing the 2023 Magpies, the 1990 Magpies, or any champion of any sport in the world, there will always be a discussion of those who "paved the way." In that spirit, I choose to place the Nathan Buckley-led Magpie era and, in particular, that late 2017-2020 time frame where Buckley began his self-transformation as a leader. I've mentioned on similar threads the film "Collingwood From the Inside Out" which Buckley self-reflects the very issues many here are calling him out on and the realization he has come to that he needed to change his approach towards his players and, more importantly, himself.

magpies42 I find your correlation of Fly to Bobby Knight interesting yet slightly troubling. I assume you are referring to the legendary NCAA basketball coach who guided Indiana to three (3) National Championships. Perhaps you may want to reconsider Knight and shoot for the moon with the omnipotent John Wooden instead. Considering Knight, a fiery, yet beloved coach, was ultimately done in, by losing his temper one time too many, when a video surfaced of him choking one of his players during practice. I would hardly consider that "Fly-like" behavior. Buckley, on the other hand, also has been caught on video doing the same.

For the rationale our fellow mates here have taken time to articulate the issues under Buckley's campaign, whether directly or indirectly attributed to him, as the old saying goes, all that goes right or wrong falls square on the head coach.

I'll close with this thought. Nathan Buckley was a central figure of our football club for a generation. He was, and still is, an icon. He grew up in a manner that prepared him for such a role and with the magnitude that only the Collingwood Football Club could offer. To a man, how realistic can a human being keep that facade up before the cracks begin to show in the foundation? I discovered this video and, with everything printed about the man, of sharing his experiences and emotions after the Grand Final, this reveals the human element of Buckley that puts it all into perspective.

Let's Talk - Nathan Buckley

Peace!

 

[Chameleon75]

Markov !!!!!!!!!!!!

moustache envy

 

[Chameleon75]

I’ve seen bucks asked this question in a few interviews post premiership, he replies that the credit attributed to him is that he brought in and helped to develop some of the list, outside of that it’s all the new regime as we do everything differently. That’s probably the truth of the matter.

 

[magpies42]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread and everyone's contributions to it. Upon our boys achieving the ultimate success under Craig McRae and his coaching staff, Graham Wright and his football operation, President Jeffrey Browne and his administration, this collective group put the formula together in 2023 to achieve a Premiership Football Campaign for the ages.

No matter whether we are discussing the 2023 Magpies, the 1990 Magpies, or any champion of any sport in the world, there will always be a discussion of those who "paved the way." In that spirit, I choose to place the Nathan Buckley-led Magpie era and, in particular, that late 2017-2020 time frame where Buckley began his self-transformation as a leader. I've mentioned on similar threads the film "Collingwood From the Inside Out" which Buckley self-reflects the very issues many here are calling him out on and the realization he has come to that he needed to change his approach towards his players and, more importantly, himself.

magpies42 I find your correlation of Fly to Bobby Knight interesting yet slightly troubling. I assume you are referring to the legendary NCAA basketball coach who guided Indiana to three (3) National Championships. Perhaps you may want to reconsider Knight and shoot for the moon with the omnipotent John Wooden instead. Considering Knight, a fiery, yet beloved coach, was ultimately done in, by losing his temper one time too many, when a video surfaced of him choking one of his players during practice. I would hardly consider that "Fly-like" behavior. Buckley, on the other hand, also has been caught on video doing the same.

For the rationale our fellow mates here have taken time to articulate the issues under Buckley's campaign, whether directly or indirectly attributed to him, as the old saying goes, all that goes right or wrong falls square on the head coach.

I'll close with this thought. Nathan Buckley was a central figure of our football club for a generation. He was, and still is, an icon. He grew up in a manner that prepared him for such a role and with the magnitude that only the Collingwood Football Club could offer. To a man, how realistic can a human being keep that facade up before the cracks begin to show in the foundation? I discovered this video and, with everything printed about the man, of sharing his experiences and emotions after the Grand Final, this reveals the human element of Buckley that puts it all into perspective.

Let's Talk - Nathan Buckley

Peace!

Great post

 

[76woodenspooners]

Non examples are crucial to effective teaching.

Times have clearly changed!