Toast Contributions to success

[sr36]

You know all too well how little I know about modern football - systems, role playing (at least when it relates to footy) etc.

However, let me remind the viewers that the beagles won a premiership only 5 years ago on a very structured defensive game plan. It was forseen by the expert pundits that we would immerse ourselves more fully in this chip and mark strategy as the skills of the players further improved. In fact even now, premiership coaches like adam simpson are having trouble transitioning and we are yet to see if ross lyon and clarko will be successful in the new style....

so a little bit of skepticism from the coaches from that era is understandable...

It's kind of understandable, although Premiers usually get copied straight away. It does my head in how long it took teams to copy the successful elements of Tigers footy.3 premierships in 4 years and they were the best team in the year they didn't win and clubs were still skeptics - sticking to their pre-Tigers systems.

 

[Markfs]

Buckley’s biggest downfall as player and coach was he couldn’t relate to or get the most out of players who didn’t have his same mindset. A entire team of players with his mindset would no doubt dominate but that’s not reality.

I didnt realise buckley was responsible for getting the most out of the players, when he was a player. It might have been nice if the football department at the time supported a view that the players were there to work hard and win premierships and not party hard.

It's interesting how much discipline was enforced by macrae on de goey during his recent history. I remember the fly being warm and cuddly during the whole process. He just wanted to cuddle him. Maybe others were drawing the boundaries. Do we criticise what they did?

I bet Ginnivan is being surrounded by people who are sucking up big time and stroking his ego. It will be interesting to see how he reacts in the next year or so. It's hard for a coach to set standards when the rest of the footy dept and the president are wimps and sign off on contracts. Meanwhile the fly is cuddling Ginnivan and evidently cuddling solves all problems

 

[Markfs]

It's kind of understandable, although Premiers usually get copied straight away. It does my head in how long it took teams to copy the successful elements of Tigers footy.3 premierships in 4 years and they were the best team in the year they didn't win and clubs were still skeptics - sticking to their pre-Tigers systems.

It just shows you that we have a lot more to blame buckley for than just our lack of premierships during his time.

 

[Pie thon]

I remember our fast starts began before our 2010 premiership year under Mick, Bucks maintained the aspect mostly, and it's continued under McRae.
The defensive lock down game style has been borrowed from Bucks and enhanced.
Enhanced in the way McRae explained on AFL360 where he said they practiced on how to wind the clock down and waste seconds.
The way I have taken it as a whole is we get the fast start. Kill as much time as possible after, so the opposition have less useful time to make a comeback, (an oversimplification ofcourse) which over the stretch of the final 3 quarters on the 2018 GF, there wouldn't have been enough game play for Dom Sheed to have had his shot. And again this year, we wasted enough time for Eric Hipwood

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Eric Hipwood

Age

27

Ht

203cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

3.9

4star

T

1.3

3star

G

1.5

5star

D

11.1

3star

K

8.4

3star

HB

2.7

2star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.1

2star

G

1.1

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.4

4star

HB

2.2

2star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.4

5star

to not have that set shot, 50m direct in front of goal to put them in front with 40 seconds to go.

 

[sr36]

It just shows you that we have a lot more to blame buckley for than just our lack of premierships during his time.

It was the whole AFL. That shit that is working isn't going to work

 

[Markfs]

One thing that shouldnt be forgotten here was that the chip and mark strategy - and good footskills - was introduced by Clarko to combat traditional footy which was basically get the ball and kick it straight at goal. I think most coaches including longmire and chris scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

would have said that a more measured slower method of playing was the most efficient way to play.

Talking about Macrae, he started at richmond at the same time that Leppitsch did...the 2017 season. Leppitsch became the defensive coach and Richmond ended up being the best defensive team. Macrae was in charge of the VFL team. Macrae moved into being a line coach at the end of 2019.

So we can thank Craig for the birth of the game style that we now have........... evidently.

 

[Markfs]

I remember our fast starts began before our 2010 premiership year under Mick, Bucks maintained the aspect mostly, and it's continued under McRae.
The defensive lock down game style has been borrowed from Bucks and enhanced.
Enhanced in the way McRae explained on AFL360 where he said they practiced on how to wind the clock down and waste seconds.
The way I have taken it as a whole is we get the fast start. Kill as much time as possible after, so the opposition have less useful time to make a comeback, (an oversimplification ofcourse) which over the stretch of the final 3 quarters on the 2018 GF, there wouldn't have been enough game play for Dom Sheed to have had his shot. And again this year, we wasted enough time for Eric Hipwood to not have that set shot, 50m direct in front of goal to put them in front with 40 seconds to go.

If you listen to buckley on SEN and the couch, he says that the problem with 2018 lies with communication problems. He cited an example of 10 minutes late in the 2nd quarter where we were running a 5 man backline and the eagles kicked 2 goals to come back into the contest. He took responsibility for that and said that they undertook improving communication the following year after a review.

 

[Markfs]

It was the whole AFL. That s**t that is working isn't going to work

SR, i hate to disagree with you but I think you'll find buckley is the man most responsible for problems in game style across the AFL.

 

[Bianconeri]

If you listen to buckley on SEN and the couch, he says that the problem with 2018 lies with communication problems. He cited an example of 10 minutes late in the 2nd quarter where we were running a 5 man backline and the eagles kicked 2 goals to come back into the contest. He took responsibility for that and said that they undertook improving communication the following year after a review.

Only for us to go down to GWS in the prelim because he couldn’t communicate a better stoppage plan in the last quarter.

 

[Markfs]

Only for us to go down to GWS in the prelim because he couldn’t communicate a better stoppage plan in the last quarter.

excuse me if i dont take your opinion as correct. Not that it's wrong but I havent heard anything from anyone who actually knows the correct reason...

 

[Bianconeri]

excuse me if i dont take your opinion as correct. Not that it's wrong but I havent heard anything from anyone who actually knows the correct reason...

Your not excused and it’s plain to see

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Yeah, sorry, Bucks had his time. Unfortunately it didn't work out for him. We don't need to pat everyone on the back. All it takes is to listen to what the players say and you can now tell they are loving their footy, where they weren't previously.

Bucks is an all time Collingwood great, but the success of this team lies with the current coaching panel and administration.

Spot on.

I'm happy to show my gratitude to Buckley for doing his very best to be successful as a player and coach, but it's serious overreach to attribute our success in 2023 to what he did years ago.

We won this flag because of Fly and his assistants, Graham Wright with his handling of list management and having serious input in appointing the coach and of course the playing group who were allowed to thrive and express themselves under the guidance of the current coaching panel.

 

[magpies42]

SR, i hate to disagree with you but I think you'll find buckley is the man most responsible for problems in game style across the AFL.

Geez you really don’t like the man. I give him a lot of credit for recognising that he needed to change his approach. With all the list management issues, racial controversy and all the soft tissue injuries that appear to have disappeared with the changing of the training surface…he was up against it for sure. Instead of loading up from a premiership tilt in 2019 we brought in Beams…I think he did very well. The media hounded us like no other.

What I now realise is that we need to keep things low key, not bringing a Collingwood legend helps with that. Eddie gone also brings less attention.

 

[Markfs]

Geez you really don’t like the man. I give him a lot of credit for recognising that he needed to change his approach. With all the list management issues, racial controversy and all the soft tissue injuries that appear to have disappeared with the changing of the training surface…he was up against it for sure. Instead of loading up from a premiership tilt in 2019 we brought in Beams…I think he did very well. The media hounded us like no other.

What I now realise is that we need to keep things low key, not bringing a Collingwood legend helps with that. Eddie gone also brings less attention.

SR and myself speak in code....not even we can understand it

 

[TheGreatSwan]

Spot on.

I'm happy to show my gratitude to Buckley for doing his very best to be successful as a player and coach, but it's serious overreach to attribute our success in 2023 to what he did years ago.

We won this flag because of Fly and his assistants, Graham Wright's with his handling of list management and having serious input in appointing the coach and of course the playing group who were allowed to thrive and express themselves under the guidance of the current coaching panel.

I don't agree.

The number of times I've heard people say "Buckley was lucky to inherit such an amazing list from Malthouse". Why can't it be the other way around? Out of the players that played more than 5 games this season, Buckley didn't coach: McStay, Lipinski, Frampton, Markov, Hill & Mitchell. But he did also coach and develop Pendlebury, Sidebottom, De Goey, Moore, Maynard, Howe, Quaynor etc.

The reality is premiership sucess goes well beyond McRae, the 23 that went out on field and Buckley.

Not sure why we need to pin point the credit of success to individuals. I go back to the theme we had in 2020, Collingwood is Made by Many.

One of the greatest to wear the jumper and lauded for his contribution to Collingwood all week, Pendlebury, recently credited Robert 'Banga' Harvey as one of his most influential coaches in his career.

McRae in the media this week: "They gave this (the Jock McHale Medal) to me on stage and I haven't worn it since because it doesn't represent all the coaches. It's ridiculous that the industry just sees me as the reason. That cup is representative of all our staff."

This premiership is made by many, including us the mighty Magpie Army!

 

[Maggie5]

Geez you really don’t like the man. I give him a lot of credit for recognising that he needed to change his approach. With all the list management issues, racial controversy and all the soft tissue injuries that appear to have disappeared with the changing of the training surface…he was up against it for sure. Instead of loading up from a premiership tilt in 2019 we brought in Beams…I think he did very well. The media hounded us like no other.

What I now realise is that we need to keep things low key, not bringing a Collingwood legend helps with that. Eddie gone also brings less attention.

Not forgetting revolving football managers, Eddie's fingerprints on Beams return, Salty malty, salary cap issues and a list he took over that wasn't going to advance. Some pretty good trades in 2014 though.

I will always be a Buckley defender, club and AFL champion.

 

[Couch Coach]

I have to say that I’ve been very uncomfortable all year and particularly post grand final with no recognition of Buckleys contribution and also others like Ned Guy.

I feel like Buckley set the foundation, we defend better and tackle better than any other team, yes Macrae enabled the flair but he also has a much better environment to work in. The camaraderie and chemistry was built under Buckley and Macrae has taken that to another level.

Ned Guy I felt was a bit of a scape goat, he did what he was told. Most importantly he had the courage to rectify the situation that ultimately enabled us to bring in McStay, Hill, Frampton and Mitchell. We got a poor return for Treloar and Grundy other clubs have since handed over first round picks to offload high end talent. They did say other clubs would follow and we really got ahead of the curve and set ourselves up for success.

I don’t think we win this premiership without Buckleys devotion and stewardship, and the way he gracefully departed (unlike his experience with Malthouse) and continued to support the club. Ned guy similarly key, recognised the error and fixed it. We don’t win without his sacrifice.

Floreat Pica

I would rather use my praises for:
- Jeff Browne
- Craig Kelly
- Jodie Sizer
- Paul Licuria
- Christine Holgate
- Barry Carp
- Renee Roberts
- Paul Tuddenham
- Craig McRae
- Brendon Bolton
- Hayden Skipworth
- Justin Leppitsch
- Scott Selwood
- Neville Jetta
- Jordan Roughead
- Josh Fraser
- Andy Otten
- Chloe McMillan
- Harmit Singh
- Derek Hine
- Shannon Collins
- Matthew Foster
- Nadine Rabah
- Jarrod Wade
- Paul Turk
- Liz Dunne
- Anthony Stoitsis
- Peter Tyler
- Ben Jankovski
- Dean Filopoulos
- Liam Fern
- Josh Boehm
- Clare Pettyfor
- Etc.

I.e. people at the club rather than people that have left.

 

[magpies42]

Not forgetting revolving football managers, Eddie's fingerprints on Beams return, Salty malty, salary cap issues and a list he took over that wasn't going to advance. Some pretty good trades in 2014 though.

I will always be a Buckley defender, club and AFL champion.

Spot on!

 

[magpies42]

I would rather use my praises for:
- Jeff Browne
- Craig Kelly
- Jodie Sizer
- Paul Licuria
- Christine Holgate
- Barry Carp
- Renee Roberts
- Paul Tuddenham
- Craig McRae
- Brendon Bolton
- Hayden Skipworth
- Justin Leppitsch
- Scott Selwood
- Neville Jetta
- Jordan Roughead
- Josh Fraser
- Andy Otten
- Chloe McMillan
- Harmit Singh
- Derek Hine
- Shannon Collins
- Matthew Foster
- Nadine Rabah
- Jarrod Wade
- Paul Turk
- Liz Dunne
- Anthony Stoitsis
- Peter Tyler
- Ben Jankovski
- Dean Filopoulos
- Liam Fern
- Josh Boehm
- Clare Pettyfor
- Etc.

I.e. people at the club rather than people that have left.

I feel like we’ve been praising them, although I’ve seen such a complete list, all season…they are clearly the drivers behind our recent success. However they didn’t start the club and pick up the list from scratch. Many others, not currently at the club have contributed, in my view it’s wrong to not acknowledge their contribution.

 

[jmac70]

Haven’t read the OP but I believed my contribution was significant. I measure this by beers drunk before, during and after games.

 

[Markfs]

Haven’t read the OP but I believed my contribution was significant. I measure this by beers drunk before, during and after games.

I have heard that you have become a major role model for players in what not to do

 

[MagpieJoel]

The fact that he coached most of them and we were 17th two seasons ago says everything.

 

[magpies42]

The fact that he coached most of them and we were 17th two seasons ago says everything.

Not sure if you’re for or against with this one, the point is you can recognise one without denegrating the other.

 

[MagpieJoel]

Not sure if you’re for or against with this one, the point is you can recognise one without denegrating the other.

Bucks doesn't need to be recognised. We've moved on.

 

[jmac70]

I have heard that you have become a major role model for players in what not to do

Non examples are crucial to effective teaching.