News Coronavirus (COVID-19) Discussion Thread IV

[DesertRoo]

Its obviously a lab made virus imo.

Where are the wild reservoirs of covid? Compare the lack of them to SARS or even bird flu now.

There’s a fun exercise, if you go back and listen to people who claimed this was man made from the start and follow their scientific advice you get a very different outcome.
You get a successful early treatment protocol in the first couple of weeks. You get no lockdowns, no masks, no kids missing school. No vaccine pass, no brink of war.
All they had to do was ignore people like Doherty, who lied, then created a model of how many people would die, scared the gov and then continued to lie.

 

[DesertRoo]

Interesting looking behind the curtain at the decision making process in the uk

Matt Hancock staged ‘rearguard’ action to close schools

WhatsApp leaks reveal how then health secretary and his advisers mocked Gavin Williamson in private for 'freaking out'

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[DesertRoo]

soothsayer, Kulldorff said this in ‘21

 

[DesertRoo]

 

[DesertRoo]

British health minters txt are the gift that keep on giving.

‘Project Fear’ authors discussed when to ‘deploy’ new Covid variant

Matt Hancock’s plan to ‘frighten the pants off’ the public to ensure compliance with lockdown measures exposed in leaked WhatsApp messages

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[DesertRoo]

New evidence released by the Select Subcommittee today suggests that Dr. Fauci “prompted” the drafting of a publication that would “disprove” the lab leak theory, the authors of this paper skewed available evidence to achieve that goal, and Dr. Jeremy Farrar went uncredited despite significant involvement.

The evidence available to the Select Subcommittee suggests that Dr. Anthony Fauci “prompted” Dr. Kristian Andersen, Professor, Scripps Research (Scripps), to write Proximal Origin and that the goal was to “disprove” any lab leak theory.

https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/2023.03.05-SSCP-Memo-Re.-New-Evidence.Proximal-Origin.pdf

 

[Chadwiko]

 

[DesertRoo]

Oh look another study showing the poorest and most disadvantaged
felt it the highest, yet Chad doesn’t care, he comes from the laptop class. Why would he give a shit when he can post silly memes.

The pandemic exacerbated achievement gaps that had long existed between low and high-poverty schools. Schools with the greatest poverty saw the biggest achievement losses.

Without sufficient efforts to help students catch up, particularly in poorer districts, the pandemic could create the largest increase in educational inequity ever seen.

To Get Kids Back on Track After COVID: Shoot for the Moon

It will take a Herculean effort to make up for learning loss during the pandemic

www.gse.harvard.edu

 

[ferball]

You realise there has been alot of excess mortality last year (17% according to some reputable sources) that is significantly higher than the combined amount of deaths caused by covid and those with covid.

I'm not necessarily saying the vaccines caused it either but I don't know what did and it seems as tho it can't be separated from our response to the pandemic.

 

[Tectonic]

You realise there has been alot of excess mortality last year (17% according to some reputable sources) that is significantly higher than the combined amount of deaths caused by covid and those with covid.

I'm not necessarily saying the vaccines caused it either but I don't know what did and it seems as tho it can't be separated from our response to the pandemic.

Not 17% higher excess deaths, it was 17% higher instance of deaths related to heart disease than were expected for the year- apparently attributable to delays in getting medical care (probably lockdown related)

 

[DesertRoo]

Not 17% higher excess deaths, it was 17% higher instance of deaths related to heart disease than were expected for the year- apparently attributable to delays in getting medical care (probably lockdown related)

Provisional Mortality Statistics, Jan - Sep 2024

Provisional deaths data for measuring changes in patterns of mortality

www.abs.gov.au

• In 2022, there were 174,717 deaths that occurred by 30 November and were registered by 31 January 2023, which is 22,886 (15.1%) more than the historical average.

 

[ferball]

Not 17% higher excess deaths, it was 17% higher instance of deaths related to heart disease than were expected for the year- apparently attributable to delays in getting medical care (probably lockdown related)

Its actually neither according to the source i was referring to. Its 17,000 in raw numbers, but that's not for the whole year. Closer to 11%.

Their estimate is 20, 000 excess deaths for the whole year.

But the people claiming vaccines were dangerous did mention that excess heart disease would be a result of the vaccination program.

 

[North1411]

The only drug in history that people ask for you to prove it does not work and is not safe, rather than the manufacturer having to prove it is effective and it is safe........ #whatscientificmethod

 

[Tectonic]

Its actually neither according to the source i was referring to. Its 17,000 in raw numbers, but that's not for the whole year. Closer to 11%.

Their estimate is 20, 000 excess deaths for the whole year.

But the people claiming vaccines were dangerous did mention that excess heart disease would be a result of the vaccination program.

Yeah apparently we've had 14 deaths attributed to covid vaccines. I did see a post claiming 17% excess deaths framing info in a certain way, but that was by Blair Cottrell so I'm sure you didn't see that one

Ive dealt with a lot of people in the west who were supposed to get treatments or surgeries but either backed out because of fear of getting sick or the hospitals couldn't get it done, a few of these people have had their end brought forward unfortunately. But I do not know of any with complications from the vax

Vaccine related or not the government has a lot to answer for wrt how cavalier the whole thing was

 

[ferball]

Yeah apparently we've had 14 deaths attributed to covid vaccines. I did see a post claiming 17% excess deaths framing info in a certain way, but that was by Blair Cottrell so I'm sure you didn't see that one

Ive dealt with a lot of people in the west who were supposed to get treatments or surgeries but either backed out because of fear of getting sick or the hospitals couldn't get it done, a few of these people have had their end brought forward unfortunately. But I do not know of any with complications from the vax

Vaccine related or not the government has a lot to answer for wrt how cavalier the whole thing was

Yeah I'm not saying one way or the other cos I don't know.

There is so much going on - our medical system was tweaked to the hilt before covid. People were kept alive when they might not have been 20 years ago, preventative medicine was really important, people followed it and every bit of leverage was being used to keep people alive. The medical system itself is in crisis now as staff leave from burn out.

We've lost thousands of homes in the last three years to fires and floods and there is a massive housing crisis and an economic one just kicking off. Both these things contribute to excess death rates.

But the excess deaths are fairly consistent across the world as well. Tho shit economic conditions are as well.

People here have posted about complications from vaccination, some themselves others in people they know. Lots of reports of minor issues and people with palipitations and racing heartbeats for days afterward and consistently they said they can't get medical staff to take them seriously. There are also documented cases of this happening around the world with one guy who had Pericarditis being diagnosed with psychosis in an emergency ward in the US cos "there were no side effects from this vaccine".

Even still the issue is so polarised.

IT will take alot to unpack it all properly, might never even happen.

 

[DesertRoo]

Uk head of vaccine task force just threw health minster under the bus.

Matt Hancock is 'two-faced' and 'was like a headless chicken' during COVID vaccine drive

The former boss of the COVID vaccines taskforce Dr Clive Dix is the latest to take a swipe at the former health secretary, as leaked WhatsApp messages Mr Hancock sent at the height of the pandemic continue to be published by The Daily Telegraph.

news.sky.com

 

[ferball]

Vaccine related or not the government has a lot to answer for wrt how cavalier the whole thing was

I've been pretty critical of the government and authorities in this pandemic. Especially the capitalist medicine side of it. Not just the hype and marketing of one type of vaccine either. Trump, when he was president, was hoarding PPE and selling it the highest bidder FFS. We've forgotten that now but it was scumbag behaviour. Biden when he was president saw the CEO of Pfizer at the White House and overnbight policies changed on boosters. The result was the people ultimately responsible for regulating vaccines resigned from the FDA.

Both failures that reflect on those parties and individuals world views imo. (Trump is a Hustler, Dems and Republicans are owned by corporates).

Government failures aren't a party political issue. They happen across party lines.

But at the same time when you're in an emergency and responsible for people's safety your decision making is very different to how it is at any other time. Their safety weighs on you, you can literally feel it weighing you down even tho its not a physical thing.

People make mistakes under that sort of pressure and they second guess themselves. They err on what they think is the side of most safety, and often only see short term outcomes, because honestly long term outcomes are something they might not get to see if they **** it up. So short term thinking dominates.

For example what's the point of trying to keep businesses open if everyone dies in the process.

Now that didn't happen with covid but the idea was dominating people's thinking at the start and no one knew what they were really dealing with.

SARS had a 10% fatality rate, MERS is over 33% and no one knew enough about covid but ... historically coronaviruses are bad for people. If covid had a 10% fatality rate people would have been dying in the street en masse.

Early on in China there was smoke from crematoriums visible from space and lines for people to collect ashes kilometres long!

Everyone who is critical of lockdowns needs to understand that people making the decisions about them came from this place where that was uppermost in their mind. Still be critical of lockdowns tho.

But when bird flu comes and it will cos its a proper zoonotic virus not a lab made one and its breaking out alot now with large populations of other animals that can be infected and then transmit it to humans in many places (something that conspicuously absent from COVID's official break out story)...

When that happens (and it will) we'll need lockdowns and might be shooting people who knock at the front door.

Hopefully when that day comes we shut the borders properly and quarantine everyone at Woomera or Christmas Island.

 

[ferball]

Uk head of vaccine task force just threw health minster under the bus.

Matt Hancock is 'two-faced' and 'was like a headless chicken' during COVID vaccine drive

The former boss of the COVID vaccines taskforce Dr Clive Dix is the latest to take a swipe at the former health secretary, as leaked WhatsApp messages Mr Hancock sent at the height of the pandemic continue to be published by The Daily Telegraph.

news.sky.com

So despite that last post alot of what this Hancock guy did was really questionable.

But again it needs a careful examination, not a twitter shitfight to really get to the bottom of it.

 

[DesertRoo]

So despite that last post alot of what this Hancock guy did was really questionable.

But again it needs a careful examination, not a twitter shitfight to really get to the bottom of it.

this is the old what comes first politics or culture debate, without the pressure or shitfight, there would be no careful examination.

A Wikileaks style data drop would be the ultimate, baring that a royal commission in the uk is the only way forward. I don’t believe they can just bury the story now.

 

[DesertRoo]

I've been pretty critical of the government and authorities in this pandemic. Especially the capitalist medicine side of it. Not just the hype and marketing of one type of vaccine either. Trump, when he was president, was hoarding PPE and selling it the highest bidder FFS. We've forgotten that now but it was scumbag behaviour. Biden when he was president saw the CEO of Pfizer at the White House and overnbight policies changed on boosters. The result was the people ultimately responsible for regulating vaccines resigned from the FDA.

Both failures that reflect on those parties and individuals world views imo. (Trump is a Hustler, Dems and Republicans are owned by corporates).

Government failures aren't a party political issue. They happen across party lines.

But at the same time when you're in an emergency and responsible for people's safety your decision making is very different to how it is at any other time. Their safety weighs on you, you can literally feel it weighing you down even tho its not a physical thing.

People make mistakes under that sort of pressure and they second guess themselves. They err on what they think is the side of most safety, and often only see short term outcomes, because honestly long term outcomes are something they might not get to see if they * it up. So short term thinking dominates.

For example what's the point of trying to keep businesses open if everyone dies in the process.

Now that didn't happen with covid but the idea was dominating people's thinking at the start and no one knew what they were really dealing with.

SARS had a 10% fatality rate, MERS is over 33% and no one knew enough about covid but ... historically coronaviruses are bad for people. If covid had a 10% fatality rate people would have been dying in the street en masse.

Early on in China there was smoke from crematoriums visible from space and lines for people to collect ashes kilometres long!

Everyone who is critical of lockdowns needs to understand that people making the decisions about them came from this place where that was uppermost in their mind. Still be critical of lockdowns tho.

But when bird flu comes and it will cos its a proper zoonotic virus not a lab made one and its breaking out alot now with large populations of other animals that can be infected and then transmit it to humans in many places (something that conspicuously absent from COVID's official break out story)...

When that happens (and it will) we'll need lockdowns and might be shooting people who knock at the front door.

Hopefully when that day comes we shut the borders properly and quarantine everyone at Woomera or Christmas Island.

That is ok for the first mistake but to repeat the same mistake for over two years?
Nah logic that doesn’t fly.

A couple of good articles, this ones from ‘21

How Fauci Fooled America

Unfortunately, Dr. Fauci got major epidemiology and public health questions wrong. Reality and scientific studies have now caught up with him.

www.newsweek.com

And what we know now.

America's COVID Response Was Based on Lies

We have seen an Orwellian attempt to rewrite history and to blame the failure of widespread lockdowns on the lockdowns' critics.

www.newsweek.com

Also john ioannidis did a wonderful presentation on covid from standford early on in the piece. None of that logic flys

 

[DuckYeah]

You realise there has been alot of excess mortality last year (17% according to some reputable sources) that is significantly higher than the combined amount of deaths caused by covid and those with covid.

I'm not necessarily saying the vaccines caused it either but I don't know what did and it seems as tho it can't be separated from our response to the pandemic.

Yeh, ****in lockdowns and restricting movement between countries, bulk and massive health messages, the list is endless. Come on mate, you are not that naive. If Alpha and Delta were allowed to run rampant with fluid population movement, the figures would be off its head. You wouldn’t just have significant increases in covid death, all ****ing illness and death would of been significantly higher due to greater population of being sick and needing hospital care in an already stressed system. Thats not even an argument You’re better than that

 

[DuckYeah]

What a cesspit.

 

[ferball]

That is ok for the first mistake but to repeat the same mistake for over two years?
Nah logic that doesn’t fly.

A couple of good articles, this ones from ‘21

How Fauci Fooled America

Unfortunately, Dr. Fauci got major epidemiology and public health questions wrong. Reality and scientific studies have now caught up with him.

www.newsweek.com

And what we know now.

America's COVID Response Was Based on Lies

We have seen an Orwellian attempt to rewrite history and to blame the failure of widespread lockdowns on the lockdowns' critics.

www.newsweek.com

Also john ioannidis did a wonderful presentation on covid from standford early on in the piece. None of that logic flys

I took almost no notice of Fauci or decisions in the US. Only a few really obvious ones caught my attention, like the two above. It was interesting watching Trump because he wasn't a typical politician but his decisions were kind of insane.

The way Ioannidis was treated was pretty bad too.

 

[ferball]

Yeh, in lockdowns and restricting movement between countries, bulk and massive health messages, the list is endless. Come on mate, you are not that naive. If Alpha and Delta were allowed to run rampant with fluid population movement, the figures would be off its head. You wouldn’t just have significant increases in covid death, all ****** illness and death would of been significantly higher due to greater population of being sick and needing hospital care in an already stressed system. Thats not even an argument You’re better than that

The only place that didn't happen was here. Maybe NZ. Everywhere else lockdowns didn't really work. Were they worth it here? I dunno.

I live in the bush and they didn't cost me much in terms of restrictions or loss of money. I lost work and things that would have otherwise happened didn't but that was down to the whole of covid and yeah it sucks but I have other options. Lockdowns hurt other people alot more so when they complain about them I think I should listen.

By the same token there is a graph floating around that shows Australia's infection rates post lock downs, at the end of 2021. Its basically a right angle and suggests when we stopped lockdowns the spread was insane. But it also co-incided with omicron, which spread like wildfire everywhere so its hard to view that correlation in isolation.

Anyway you should read the follow up comments to that one if you want a more nuanced picture of what I'm saying.

Bottom line is over 10% increase in deaths in Australia above baseline levels over 2022. Much of it due to heart disease, but also to other factors.

 

[DesertRoo]

Former CDC director