Mega Thread Coronavirus & the AFL - Stage 4 Restrictions in Place in Vic - Part 4

[Kwality]

Exactly, emotions V logic.

Cheap.
Logic & Covid 19, strange bedfellows. Theory not logic.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Logic & Covid 19, strange bedfellows. Theory not logic.

There is a plethora of statistics out there, the pro-lockdown crowd don't seem to want to look though.

'Personal experience' is always a debate winner!

 

[The 747]

The government then needs to do it's job, start being strategic in protecting those who die from this... In addition, put some responsibility back on those in the community within the 'danger' bracket. In other words, if you're over 70 or unhealthy, use some common sense until a vaccine is available.

They won't stop it, we need those important tax dollars they squander put where they'll make a difference. The 'free money' won't last forever, life must go on before this results in a social and economic disaster causing even more net death.

The Government is doing it's job, the majority of citizens everywhere AFAIK support this approach. What you are suggesting is that the Government should act according to the wishes of a minority opinion which thinks the economy matters more than the lives of the people who are the reason for an economy existing.

 

[The 747]

There is a plethora of statistics out there, the pro-lockdown crowd don't seem to want to look though.

'Personal experience' is always a debate winner!

There is a whole lot of bullshit out there you mean. Scientists and medical professionals seem to have a fairly consistent view. Crackpots and idiots also have a consistent and dumb view.

 

[PatrickBateman]

The Government is doing it's job, the majority of citizens everywhere AFAIK support this approach. What you are suggesting is that the Government should act according to the wishes of a minority opinion which thinks the economy matters more than the lives of the people who are the reason for an economy existing.

They sure are doing their job.

Maybe if they stay compliant with their BS equity and diversity policies we'll progress swiftly into our third lockdown.

What you and others don't seem to understand is the notion of 'total' death, what the fallout is of a ruined economy. It reaches everywhere, every crime statistic worsens, suicide increases, domestic incidents increase, relationships fail. As I mentioned earlier, you seem to think economy focus is ridiculous, I think it's because the media / government aren't making a deal about it. They control how you think.

Put it this way, cardiovascular disease kills 1/3 of the world, 18 million people every year. It's an epidemic, a global phenomenon. Nothing is done, why no scare tactics to wake people up? Why no talk of getting into shape, healthy living, even re Covid, which is very hard on obese people. It's more important to be politically correct today than responsible.

 

[The 747]

They sure are doing their job.

Maybe if they stay compliant with their BS equity and diversity policies we'll progress swiftly into our third lockdown.

What you and others don't seem to understand is the notion of 'total' death, what the fallout is of a ruined economy. It reaches everywhere, every crime statistic worsens, suicide increases, domestic incidents increase, relationships fail. As I mentioned earlier, you seem to think economy focus is ridiculous, I think it's because the media / government aren't making a deal about it. They control how you think.

Put it this way, cardiovascular disease kills 1/3 of the world, 18 million people every year. It's an epidemic, a global phenomenon. Nothing is done, why no scare tactics to wake people up? Why no talk of getting into shape, healthy living, even re Covid, which is very hard on obese people. It's more important to be politically correct today than responsible.

Thank you for unmasking yourself. It was hard to read your brainwaves with our device but we have got a fix on you now.

 

[HTT]

They sure are doing their job.

Maybe if they stay compliant with their BS equity and diversity policies we'll progress swiftly into our third lockdown.

What you and others don't seem to understand is the notion of 'total' death, what the fallout is of a ruined economy. It reaches everywhere, every crime statistic worsens, suicide increases, domestic incidents increase, relationships fail. As I mentioned earlier, you seem to think economy focus is ridiculous, I think it's because the media / government aren't making a deal about it. They control how you think.

Put it this way, cardiovascular disease kills 1/3 of the world, 18 million people every year. It's an epidemic, a global phenomenon. Nothing is done, why no scare tactics to wake people up? Why no talk of getting into shape, healthy living, even re Covid, which is very hard on obese people. It's more important to be politically correct today than responsible.

Didn't know CVD was contagious.

If someone gets CVD, it does not put other people in danger of getting it themselves. Some people are more susceptible to it but ultimately the factors leading to it are controllable - eat healthy, do exercise. Plenty is poured into promotion of that every year. But if people choose not to follow it, they are only risking their own life. Its considered an endemic because it doesn't grow.
If someone chooses not to follow the restrictions put in place for coronavirus, and they have the virus, they put everyone they come into contact with, and everyone those contacts come into contact with and so on, in danger.

People can live mostly normal lives and avoid CVD. Eat healthy and exercise regularly and you're well on your way.
You can't avoid coronavirus in a totally free world. You can't just lock yourself up for all eternity. You're going to have to leave home at some point and you are going to be exposed.

 

[CatFan79]

The Government is doing it's job, the majority of citizens everywhere AFAIK support this approach.

How long do you think the imaginary Canberra money trees can be picked for?

They stop giving out 'free money' then see how quick everyone wants to get back to work..

We don't want to keep adding substantially to an already overgrown sector of society who are just a bit too comfortable taking handouts...

 

[kranky al]

I feel like if we get back to below 50 we will go back to stage 3. That is about the range where contact tracers can keep up. Stage 4 is super hard work, I think it will be best by that stage to throw everyone a bone to keep them following everything else than to hold stage 4 and risk losing people. The tracing does need to improve on what it was in June/July.

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China

wwwnc.cdc.gov

People pretending to do something that just flat out wont work...z

 

[The 747]

How long do you think the imaginary Canberra money trees can be picked for?

They stop giving out 'free money' then see how quick everyone wants to get back to work..

We don't want to keep adding substantially to an already overgrown sector of society who are just a bit too comfortable taking handouts...

Quite a long time actually, considering interest rates.

 

[HTT]

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China

Large SARS-CoV-2 Outbreak Caused by Asymptomatic Traveler, China

wwwnc.cdc.gov

People pretending to do something that just flat out wont work...z

It probably relies more on community transmission numbers. About 32% of all cases since June 9 have been attributed to community transmission. If that rate holds (and I'd speculate its more likely to go down than up in stage 4), we will be seeing about 16 community transmission cases per day out of 50 overall cases. They are about the numbers seen in the initial outbreak that were driven down with stage 3.
It would be quicker with stage 4 - and for me personally stage 4 lockdown isn't much worse than stage 3 so I'd prefer to get back to 0 ASAP and skip to stage 2. But more important is to keep the dickheads on side and throw them a bone imo. Stage 3 with masks is enough to get 50 down to 0, but obviously not the fastest way.

 

[HTT]

The government then needs to do it's job, start being strategic in protecting those who die from this... In addition, put some responsibility back on those in the community within the 'danger' bracket. In other words, if you're over 70 or unhealthy, use some common sense until a vaccine is available.

They won't stop it, we need those important tax dollars they squander put where they'll make a difference. The 'free money' won't last forever, life must go on before this results in a social and economic disaster causing even more net death.

Would you like to be literally locked inside your home unable to have any contact with another person for multiple years? Because thats what the vulnerable will need to do to avoid it.
Or, we can follow all these restrictions which are comparatively nothing, for a few more weeks.

 

[kranky al]

The government then needs to do it's job, start being strategic in protecting those who die from this... In addition, put some responsibility back on those in the community within the 'danger' bracket. In other words, if you're over 70 or unhealthy, use some common sense until a vaccine is available.

They won't stop it, we need those important tax dollars they squander put where they'll make a difference. The 'free money' won't last forever, life must go on before this results in a social and economic disaster causing even more net death.

Yet here we are in wa - back at work for the most part.

 

[Clems Knee]

It probably relies more on community transmission numbers. About 32% of all cases since June 9 have been attributed to community transmission. If that rate holds (and I'd speculate its more likely to go down than up in stage 4), we will be seeing about 16 community transmission cases per day out of 50 overall cases. They are about the numbers seen in the initial outbreak that were driven down with stage 3.
It would be quicker with stage 4 - and for me personally stage 4 lockdown isn't much worse than stage 3 so I'd prefer to get back to 0 ASAP and skip to stage 2. But more important is to keep the dickheads on side and throw them a bone imo. Stage 3 with masks is enough to get 50 down to 0, but obviously not the fastest way.

I don’t think you’ll ever get the dickheads on side. They will whinge and complain (and pretend they use logic!!!) and break the restrictions anyway, just because they are selfish.
Better to remain in stage 4 until community transmission is eliminated, rather than yo-yo through stage 2, 3 and 4 for months and months. The crazy conspiracy theorists who are breaking lockdown? Lock them up on King Island to keep the rest of Victoria safe. Give them something real to whinge about.

 

[PatrickBateman]

Yet here we are in wa - back at work for the most part.

It's great, and despite your unemployment rate still being relatively high compared to the other states, you'll be subsidising Victoria along with the other states.

While much of Dan's core support group are getting money for nothing. Eating pizza and watching NetFlix all day, getting fat - they never want this to end! They thank you. A menial job that paid less than what they're getting now for doing absolutely nothing wasn't favourable. Nearly 1/3 of JobKeeper recipients are getting more than they did while working.

Let's see how this shifts when the money dries up...

 

[Monkey King]

Put it this way, cardiovascular disease kills 1/3 of the world, 18 million people every year. It's an epidemic, a global phenomenon. Nothing is done, why no scare tactics to wake people up? Why no talk of getting into shape, healthy living, even re Covid, which is very hard on obese people. It's more important to be politically correct today than responsible.

Automatically linking every death from cardiovascular disease to obesity or being out of shape is just ignorance. A better example would be Type II Diabetes.

Government have been messaging healthy living since Norm in the 80's. This is a lifestyle choice for all individuals. You can't catch it. And if you do develop diabetes or heart disease, you can't transmit it to someone else.

For those old enough to remember these ...

 

[PatrickBateman]

Government have been messaging healthy living since Norm in the 80's. This is a lifestyle choice for all individuals. You can't catch it. And if you do develop diabetes or heart disease, you can't transmit it to someone else.

Enforced nothing. If they ran that advert today in fact, all the triggered lefties would call it fat shaming... and gone. Women are being told to embrace being overweight / obese by the same folk.

Many cancers are instigated by poor lifestyle decisions too, as well as respiratory illnesses, neither are included in the cardiovascular stats.

I get it though, people are generally irresponsible. They don't wish to care for their own health, but expect the government to save them from a virus. This is the society created today, one of government dependency and less responsibility... just how they like it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

They sure are doing their job.

Maybe if they stay compliant with their BS equity and diversity policies we'll progress swiftly into our third lockdown.

What you and others don't seem to understand is the notion of 'total' death, what the fallout is of a ruined economy. It reaches everywhere, every crime statistic worsens, suicide increases, domestic incidents increase, relationships fail. As I mentioned earlier, you seem to think economy focus is ridiculous, I think it's because the media / government aren't making a deal about it. They control how you think.

Put it this way, cardiovascular disease kills 1/3 of the world, 18 million people every year. It's an epidemic, a global phenomenon. Nothing is done, why no scare tactics to wake people up? Why no talk of getting into shape, healthy living, even re Covid, which is very hard on obese people. It's more important to be politically correct today than responsible.

What makes you think that nothing is done? Lots is done.
But its not an epidemic, if I eat 2 big macs a day i can't kill my neighbor who is doing everything right to care for his heart condition.
You should feel stupid making these sorts of comments.

 

[dont bowl there]

I don’t think you’ll ever get the dickheads on side. They will whinge and complain (and pretend they use logic!!!) and break the restrictions anyway, just because they are selfish.
Better to remain in stage 4 until community transmission is eliminated, rather than yo-yo through stage 2, 3 and 4 for months and months. The crazy conspiracy theorists who are breaking lockdown? Lock them up on King Island to keep the rest of Victoria safe. Give them something real to whinge about.

I think Victoria is well past aiming for elimination, not that we ever did. If they turn around and say elimination is now the goal it’s stage 4 until 2021. Not sure people from Perth realise how hard stage 4 is. I can get behind it, but not for another 3 months.

 

[HTT]

Enforced nothing. If they ran that advert today in fact, all the triggered lefties would call it fat shaming... and gone. Women are being told to embrace being overweight / obese by the same folk.

Many cancers are instigated by poor lifestyle decisions too, as well as respiratory illnesses, neither are included in the cardiovascular stats.

I get it though, people are generally irresponsible. They don't wish to care for their own health, but expect the government to save them from a virus. This is the society created today, one of government dependency and less responsibility... just how they like it.

You don’t need to enforce stuff when someone is only affecting themselves. People are free to make their own choices - until their choices put others lives in danger.
That’s where coronavirus sits - one person catching and going off living as they would normally leads to multiple people catching it, and it spreads exponentially.

 

[Monkey King]

Enforced nothing. If they ran that advert today in fact, all the triggered lefties would call it fat shaming... and gone. Women are being told to embrace being overweight / obese by the same folk.

Many cancers are instigated by poor lifestyle decisions too, as well as respiratory illnesses, neither are included in the cardiovascular stats.

I get it though, people are generally irresponsible. They don't wish to care for their own health, but expect the government to save them from a virus. This is the society created today, one of government dependency and less responsibility... just how they like it.

I don't disagree with what you've said here, aside from the "tiggered lefties" comment, which is more about how you process things; but stopping the spread of communicable disease is a little different than non-communicable diseases that may arise from lifestyle choices, of which we're all permitted to make autonomous choices for ourselves without condemning others to share our illness..

The only disease I can think of in my lifetime that compares to current situation is HIV/AIDS, which had all kinds of money, scare campaigns and prevention education programs thrown at it.

 

[The 747]

I think Victoria is well past aiming for elimination, not that we ever did. If they turn around and say elimination is now the goal it’s stage 4 until 2021. Not sure people from Perth realise how hard stage 4 is. I can get behind it, but not for another 3 months.

Stage 4 is not going to be sustainable much longer than the three weeks we have to go. The only way it would be accepted for any longer is if we had thousands of people dying. If this doesn't work then they need to come up with another plan.

 

[PatrickBateman]

What makes you think that nothing is done? Lots is done.
But its not an epidemic, if I eat 2 big macs a day i can't kill my neighbor who is doing everything right to care for his heart condition.
You should feel stupid making these sorts of comments.

What is done?

If the government is so concerned about the death of its people, why does it allow them to be irresponsible and eat, drink, drug themselves to death? Not only that, an unhealthy lifestyle (overweight, unfit, etc) more than likely predicts an unhappy life.

2/3 of Australians over the age of 18 are overweight or obese = epidemic. Costs the nation huge money too. The government could regulate it, the only reason it sounds foreign to you is because they've never done it. Just like people who think the economic situation isn't a problem, cause Andrews isn't saying it is.

Yet we're unable to choose whether or not we put ourselves outdoors with or without a mask on, in public to go for a walk in the fresh air. Next to zero chance of infection of a virus that literally bounces off the overwhelming majority. As I've said, the data is there, if you're susceptible to having trouble with the virus, take responsibility for yourself until there's a vaccine - wear a mask, social distance, shop early or late, don't go to your local religious institution and kiss / hug everyone. Tighten up aged care homes immensely. The data is there...

BTW, you could still give your neighbour influenza any other year, which could similarly kill him. Vaccines are often only 20% or so effective.

 

[hawksrule111]

I think Victoria is well past aiming for elimination, not that we ever did. If they turn around and say elimination is now the goal it’s stage 4 until 2021. Not sure people from Perth realise how hard stage 4 is. I can get behind it, but not for another 3 months.

Unless you’re living it, it’s hard to understand. it’s mentally and subsequently physically draining. The next 3 weeks need to show big percentage drops from today’s baseline otherwise new plan is required. Simply can’t live like this long term.

 

[Number37]

Stage 4 is not going to be sustainable much longer than the three weeks we have to go. The only way it would be accepted for any longer is if we had thousands of people dying. If this doesn't work then they need to come up with another plan.

Why wouldn't it be sustainable for longer?