Cousins or Pratt? Who has brought the game into disrepute more?

[The Donners]

Geez your a knob.

What Pratt did was done 3 years prior to him being the President of the CFC.

The whole cartel thing stinks and both VISY (as a company NOT JUST PRATT) and AMCOR (who have skated away clean of this) should be fried for it.

This has NOTHING to do with the CFC as an entity in the AFL.

Pratt is VISY. Although there's a separation of legal entity and all the other sanctions under the Corp Act 2001 but at the end of the day, he is VISY. It's a family owned company, his family! He runs it, he knows exactly what's going on... it was his idea, he put the plan in place, he is the culprit... and Amcor said just that, that is why they weren't penalised!

 

[celtic_pride]

You pay more for your products! He sells his boxes to PUBLIC companies who sell merchandise in those boxes to the PUBLIC... nothing CIVIL about that!

Richard Pratt has friends in high places and has given great deals of money to both of the major political parties, I don't think Fonzy Demetriou would want to start upsetting people that could influence whether a State Government would provide funding for upgrades of say the MCG or the Telstra Dome... do you???

Okay I get what you are saying, but I don't think what Pratt's company did, discredits him from being the President of Carlton ?

It was a company decision, not just Pratt, that was responsible for the price fixing, and VISY got fined, not Pratt himself.

 

[jonoman89]

jesus christ. this is an actual question?

Cousins took drugs - he is an afl player, he broke the law, and dragged the codes name into the mud

Pratt price fixed, which was not a criminal offence - it had nothing to do with the club, the players or the AFL that matter.

You honestly think that Pratt brought the game into disrepute by doing something not involving the AFL? And you think he did it worse than Cousins?

**** me dead people! u might hate carlton, im fine with that, but at least THINK LOGICALLY HERE!

 

[thewest]

You pay more for your products! He sells his boxes to PUBLIC companies who sell merchandise in those boxes to the PUBLIC... nothing CIVIL about that!

Richard Pratt has friends in high places and has given great deals of money to both of the major political parties, I don't think Fonzy Demetriou would want to start upsetting people that could influence whether a State Government would provide funding for upgrades of say the MCG or the Telstra Dome... do you???

Well said sir...but it will take a long time before carlton fans could realize this if they ever do...

 

[The Donners]

Okay I get what you are saying, but I don't think what Pratt's company did, discredits him from being the President of Carlton ?

It was a company decision, not just Pratt, that was responsible for the price fixing, and VISY got fined, not Pratt himself.

No, I agree. It's more of a respect issue though. He is the figure head of the Carlton Football Club, I personally wouldn't want someone who has been involved in such collusions to be the president of my football club. I also wouldn't have thought Carlton would, perhaps they should put more effort into being a professional outfit that doesn't accept significant acts of unprofessionalism.

I would be saying the same thing if it were Peter Jackson, I'm not being anti-Carlton, I honestly believe though they would be better off without his tarnished name as the head of your club! You are after all slowly picking yourselves up after the fall from grace, obviously on the back of Mr. Elliot.

You want your Carltons, Collingwoods and Essendons to be professional and lead the competition in fairness and pride... I think this incident will set Carlton on the backfoot in the fight to include themselves with Collingwood and Essendon at this stage, you must regain your respect from the competition.

 

[Monkeyboy]

No, I agree. It's more of a respect issue though. He is the figure head of the Carlton Football Club, I personally wouldn't want someone who has been involved in such collusions to be the president of my football club. I also wouldn't have thought Carlton would, perhaps they should put more effort into being a professional outfit that doesn't accept significant acts of unprofessionalism.

I would be saying the same thing if it were Peter Jackson, I'm not being anti-Carlton, I honestly believe though they would be better off without his tarnished name as the head of your club! You are after all slowly picking yourselves up after the fall from grace, obviously on the back of Mr. Elliot.

You want your Carltons, Collingwoods and Essendons to be professional and lead the competition in fairness and pride... I think this incident will set Carlton on the backfoot in the fight to include themselves with Collingwood and Essendon at this stage, you must regain your respect from the competition.

Carlton have been and always will be as big as Essendon and Collingwood. With the list they are assembling we just need to make sure we can join them on 18 flags over the next decade.

 

[The Donners]

[/b][/u]

Carlton have been and always will be as big as Essendon and Collingwood. With the list they are assembling we just need to make sure we can join them on 18 flags over the next decade.

I think you've taken what I said out of context. I wasn't at all talking about on-field success.

 

[Da Bull]

Pratt is VISY. Although there's a separation of legal entity and all the other sanctions under the Corp Act 2001 but at the end of the day, he is VISY. It's a family owned company, his family! He runs it, he knows exactly what's going on... it was his idea, he put the plan in place, he is the culprit... and Amcor said just that, that is why they weren't penalised!

What didn't you understand in my post????

Did I not say that VISY and Amcor should be fried?

Sure Pratt is Visy and it's a company business. but there are a number of other persons involved incl the CEO who set it up. Amcor were still in cahoots and just because they flipped shouldn't make them exempt from public scrutiny or any other penalty. Collusion occurrs b/w parties not party.

 

[The Donners]

What didn't you understand in my post????

Did I not say that VISY and Amcor should be fried?

Sure Pratt is Visy and it's a company business. but there are a number of other persons involved incl the CEO who set it up. Amcor were still in cahoots and just because they flipped shouldn't make them exempt from public scrutiny or any other penalty. Collusion occurrs b/w parties not party.

Firstly, Amcor received ACCC immunity for whistleblowing, but that immunity does not extend to civil action, which has been brought against Amcor. Visy did not receive such immunity as they did not come clean until Amcor told the ACCC of their involvement.

Secondly, Richard Pratt is the Chairman, he owns the company, I don't think that there is anyone who plays a larger role, CEO included.

"Mr Debney, the right-hand man of Visy owner Richard Pratt"

as per http://www.smh.com.au/news/Business/Visy-boss-Harry-Debney-resigns/2007/10/25/1192941222574.html

 

[Monkey King]

Pratt is VISY. Although there's a separation of legal entity and all the other sanctions under the Corp Act 2001 but at the end of the day, he is VISY. It's a family owned company, his family! He runs it, he knows exactly what's going on... it was his idea, he put the plan in place, he is the culprit...

I doubt this. There's no doubt he knew what was going on. I don't think he's ever denied that. He's getting on and has been battling cancer, so it is understandable at such a time he would delegate an awful lot of responsibility to his most trusted executives and directors.

He certainly did wrong, the old fella, but BF poster's attempts to weave Carlton into these happenings is bordering on pathetic.

and Amcor said just that, that is why they weren't penalised!

They weren't penalised, but not for that reason. The ACCC wanted a big fish, and they found one of the biggest in Pratt, the figurehead of Visy Group. They simply offered AMCOR immunity in return for testifying. AMCOR would have drawn very little of the spotlight, but the ACCC new Pratt's name would be up in lights. Nonetheless, I love your sinister twist on the matter.

 

[Silvagnis]

Was Didak charged with bringing the game into disrepute?

That pusillanimous piece of crap which calls itself Alan Didak has brought the game into disrepute more than Pratt.

One man is dead and two other people were shot because Didak didn't come forward.

Was Didak accused of bringing the game into disrepute?

Didak is a role model for Collingwood fans everywhere.

He probably blacked out when he was grilled and suspended by Collingwood.

He should be charged with being a weak scumbag.

 

[Monkey King]

Do I need to remind you that we are in a football competition, not a who goes to church most competition.

I seriously question your attempts to paint Carlton as some evil empire out to eat babies, steal every last cent from the world etc....

Like you are some kind of goody two shoes.....

P.S. the phone is ringing, its your pulpit calling.

I wouldn't worry about HappyHawk there sosos. The guy has no scruples or interest in the truth. He'd deny his own mother if he felt it would help get his point across.

 

[The Donners]

Pratt is VISY. Although there's a separation of legal entity and all the other sanctions under the Corp Act 2001 but at the end of the day, he is VISY. It's a family owned company, his family! He runs it, he knows exactly what's going on... it was his idea, he put the plan in place, he is the culprit...

I doubt this. There's no doubt he knew what was going on. I don't think he's ever denied that. He's getting on and has been battling cancer, so it is understandable at such a time he would delegate an awful lot of responsibility to his most trusted executives and directors.

He certainly did wrong, the old fella, but BF poster's attempts to weave Carlton into these happenings is bordering on pathetic.



They weren't penalised, but not for that reason. The ACCC wanted a big fish, and they found one of the biggest in Pratt, the figurehead of Visy Group. They simply offered AMCOR immunity in return for testifying. AMCOR would have drawn very little of the spotlight, but the ACCC new Pratt's name would be up in lights. Nonetheless, I love your sinister twist on the matter.

I don't want it to tarnish Carlton, hence he should relinquish his post.

There is a double standard here, something to which Carlton supporters don't want to admit. The AFL witch hunt is attempting to curtail Cousins' career yet nothing has been said by the AFL with regards to Mr. Pratt.

If you read my earlier post, it is because of the power he holds in the community and the money he brings to the table.

 

[The Donners]

Re: Was Didak charged with bringing the game into disrepute?

That pusillanimous piece of crap which calls itself Alan Didak has brought the game into disrepute more than Pratt.

One man is dead and two other people were shot because Didak didn't come forward.

Was Didak accused of bringing the game into disrepute?

Didak is a role model for Collingwood fans everywhere.

He probably blacked out when he was grilled and suspended by Collingwood.

He should be charged with being a weak scumbag.

If what you say is true, it will unfold in the courts as Didak will most likely become a witness to the fact. He is yet to be convicted, Cousins is yet to be convicted... Mr. Pratt/Visy has been convicted, therein lies the difference.

 

[Da Bull]

Call me stupid if you like, but, I fail to see how PRATT has brought the game into disrepute over something that occurred 3 yrs prior to him joining the Carlton board.

Cousins was convicted of Booze Bus incident.

 

[Monkey King]

There is a double standard here, something to which Carlton supporters don't want to admit. The AFL witch hunt is attempting to curtail Cousins' career yet nothing has been said by the AFL with regards to Mr. Pratt.

What double standard is that. I only see that by BF posters myself. Pratt had NO involvment in the game when this stuff transpired. How the hell did he tarnish the AFL's reputation?

Cousins, while registered as an AFL player has been on the go for more than 2 years and been chances time and again. This time, he ran out of them. Refusing to assist police in a shooting & stabbing incident involving one of his associates who is a well known criminal identity. Evading booze bus in a most bizzare and obvious way. Fighting with teamates and getting his arm broken in the process. Using stimulants during an AFL season, conjecture I know, but even his coach has said he was noticing the effects in July 06'. Arrested for drunkenes in a public place. Being caught with a bevy of prescription drugs and refusing to give a blood sample that was requested because he was thought to be under the influence of drugs whilst driving. I mean come on. This is time and time again.

On top of this, his behaviour has led to the AFL copping a lot of shit about their drug policy from all directions, including the Australian Government who've taled about legislating it; and if they let Cousins keep playing there is a good chance he'll do something like this again. Forget about it. Thats why the AFL want to give him the arse. No comparison to Pratt, no double standards at all, just noobs who seem to demonstate aninability to differentiate situations.

If you read my earlier post, it is because of the power he holds in the community and the money he brings to the table.

Mate, his job at the Blues is to make sure the administration is up to scratch, to bring in the money and keep us financially sound etc. He is bloody good at his job. What he has done was not done in his time with the Blues and essentially has little to do with football. I dont think you'll find many Blues supporters really saying what he did doesn't matter, but just as WCE gave Cousins a number of chances because he was good at what he does, Blues fans similarly want to give Pratt a go.

You know, if he started playing up as Blues president, you would see Blues fans calling for his head quicker than WCE called for Cousins, but none of this has happened, so I can't see what the problem is; apart from a mob of bitter people with whatever agenda they're pushing wanting to see Carlton taken down a peg.

 

[mediumsizered]

I disagree. There is a lynch mob after Cousins, he's yet to test positive to an illegal substance, he's simply been charged with a traffic offense.

Pratt has been convicted of price collusion which in my opinion is theft and should've received jail time.

But that is only your opinion. The law actually states otherwise. If Pratt has committed a theft why wasn't he charged with a criminal offence, therefore allowing a broader range of sentencing options? I guess you know a lot more than our legislators.

BTW, any updates on how Cousins is going in rehab in the U.S.? That's right, he is back in Australia. Fancy that. I hope he had a nice holiday in the U.S. & those blondes showed him a good time. I would imagine he will be on his best behaviour in the coming weeks as he prepares to front the AFL in just under 2 weeks & a court hearing in January. If I was him I wouldn't be going anywhere near Subiaco in the near future. Talk about getting your club into the ****.

 

[The Donners]

But that is only your opinion. The law actually states otherwise. If Pratt has committed a theft why wasn't he charged with a criminal offence, therefore allowing a broader range of sentencing options? I guess you know a lot more than our legislators.

BTW, any updates on how Cousins is going in rehab in the U.S.? That's right, he is back in Australia. Fancy that. I hope he had a nice holiday in the U.S. & those blondes showed him a good time. I would imagine he will be on his best behaviour in the coming weeks as he prepares to front the AFL in just under 2 weeks & a court hearing in January. If I was him I wouldn't be going anywhere near Subiaco in the near future. Talk about getting your club into the ****.

Cousins has a hearing with the AFL.

Unfortunately corporate litigation/law is lax in Australia. They punish tax evasion with jail terms, Glenn Wheatley, yet they only give fines that are dwarfed by their proceeds for corporate theft. Yes, that is my opinion, I understand what you are saying, there is a huge injustice!

 

[Cyclops]

Call me stupid if you like, but, I fail to see how PRATT has brought the game into disrepute over something that occurred 3 yrs prior to him joining the Carlton board.

The judge noted that if they hadn't been caught the scam would still be going.

Pratt was also a stalwart of the club for several decades, associated with the Elliot regime.

Cousins was convicted of Booze Bus incident.

Like some of our kids and some of your kids. We've had idiots like Didak, Hotton, Aaron James, you had Hotton too not to mention Angwin. The difference with Cousins is his club covered it up instead of disciplining him sooner.

Carlton is at fault for keeping Pratt, and West Coast is at fault for not disciplining Cousins properly. However Cousins is one player, and he's been knifed. Carlton are standing by their offender, and he's in charge.

 

[Hornet]

Unfortunately corporate litigation/law is lax in Australia. They punish tax evasion with jail terms, Glenn Wheatley, yet they only give fines that are dwarfed by their proceeds for corporate theft. Yes, that is my opinion, I understand what you are saying, there is a huge injustice!

I agree with you on the bold part and one needs to ask that if there was a possibility of jail terms, would (a) Amcor have devised the price fixing scam and (b) would Visy have entered the agreement?

Laws need to be changed to further deter these types of actions.

 

[The Donners]

I agree with you on the bold part and one needs to ask that if there was a possibility of jail terms, would (a) Amcor have devised the price fixing scam and (b) would Visy have entered the agreement?

Laws need to be changed to further deter these types of actions.

Very true, just as the laws of the AFL need to be changed to penalise players for testing positive to illegal substances in the first instance to limit and/or deter "Cousins-like" situations.

Zero tolerance!

 

[clobba]

Very true, just as the laws of the AFL need to be changed to penalise players for testing positive to illegal substances in the first instance to limit and/or deter "Cousins-like" situations.

Zero tolerance!

I AGREE!! I call for complete INTOLERANCE of any professional medical opinion which disagrees with the publics view and common sense...see its common so its got to be right!

 

[clobba]

I know completely irrelevent to the OP but its just drivel now anyway so lets agree that Cousins is a moron and Pratt is immoral and corrupt and get onto another pointless argument to make the off season pass quicker