Craig Cameron says we will be trading. (Merged Delisting/Trading Threads)

[coke_zero]

Re: We need to outsmart the gold coast!!

There is NFW I would trade Morton for pick 30-40. I wouldn't trade him at all given his talent but no way would I trade him for pick 40.

if he adds defensive presure and he plays out the year he could be worth a first rounder. but i'd rather not trade him.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Considering all the trouble GC are having attracting players, I'd put McGuane, Moore, Newman, White, Polo and Hislop up for trade (I'd add Thomson, but he has zero value).

I don't think it's too far beyond the realms of comprehension to end up with at least two first rounders and maybe one or two 3rd-5th round picks out of that lot. Newman is the 'name' player they desperately want and an instant captain (pick #7), McGuane and Moore is the instant decent defensive spine they'll struggle to provide any other way (picks 9 & 11 - 3 would be pushing it, but you never know, they do badly need mature bodies).

If we ended up with say picks 4, 7, 9/11 (or both) and 27, I'd offer one of 7/9/11 and maybe a minor sweetener to get Will Schofield.

Schofield's the ideal build, pace and agility for an AFL footballer, he's going to be capable of playing anywhere from KP to on the ball and he's only just started to blossom as a player. Penetrating, accurate kick, decent by hand, strong at ground level and in the air, wins contested ball and competes hard, fast enough to break lines yet 195cm, coming on in leaps and bounds with his decision making every game...he's going to be a very good defender I suspect and would make an ideal rebounding tall defender with two of Thursfield/Gourdis/Post. Reminds me a lot of Scarlett in his very early days, he only needs more experience and the confidence that comes from that to become a similar player (in style, I'm not saying he's going to be the best defender ever...before someone accuses me of saying that!).

He's very raw still, but he has all the attributes we need in a KPD, even if some of them are still in embryo form.

West Coast would surely be tempted to get another top-10 pick (they rightly prioritise mids and I'm sure they're feeling a fair way from secure with the developing ones they have) and they can cover his loss, the only rub is that his improvement this year has been out of sight and they may possibly consider him untradeable by the end of year if he keeps his current form up. He's not under the radar anymore unfortunately, but he's the perfect fit for us IMO and will end up being a significant upgrade on Moore/McGuane, who have both very much peaked as players.

I'd try to get Moss from Hawthorn for a late pick. Pelchen fancies himself every draft and Moss has a stack of attributes we need - great team man and a leader in his junior years, runs hard, smart player, decent skills, very dangerous up forward when resting there. He's had quite a few injury setbacks in the first part of his career and was nowhere near an AFL build, but seems to be over the injuries now, has put on weight and muscle and still has plenty of improvement left in him. He's not blessed with great pace, he's not overly tall, but he is an accumulator who uses the ball well and would fit in very nicely on a wing for us - the Hawks already have more than enough of his type, he's wasting away there. Being given 22 games in a row at AFL level instead of being in and out (out for players with more 'x factor') would do him the world of good and he would be a very solid addition for us.

We can't afford the luxury of letting Newman play out his career with us just for 'feel good' reasons while we could conceivably get a good junior for him instead of two more years for us, and no decent side in future years will be able to carry two, let alone three bugger all rebound KPD's like Moore, McGuane and Thursfield, we need to get something for them while the opportunity is there. If GC don't want both of them then deal with Hawthorn, the Saints or someone else.

I'd appoint Reiwoldt captain after trading Newman, I think he'd finish growing up overnight if given the role and would quickly become the vocal, inspiring captain Newman could only dream of being, and in all honesty, Moore and McGuane are so inconsistent we really wouldn't miss them in the long term - certainly not enough to give up the chance to get a couple more first round juniors in.

If we can get decent early picks for these players then we HAVE to do it, but sadly, we won't.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Jesus Ray, where do we sign?

 

[Bazzar]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Rayz really on fire tonight

 

[santa claws]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Rayz really on fire tonight

clayton is no fool he would not touch mcguane hislop or white even with rasors pole yet alone a barge pole. and for obvious reasons his entire recruiting history says he in the main steers clear of chronic deficiencies.

newman is an experienced solid core list big bodied player with decent foot skills something we are sadly lacking in. he wont bring a first rounder and i would be surprised if he bought a second rounder not at what 28 29 next yr.

kel moore is one who may have some value he does have the attributes to be a very good player for what ever reasons people want to put it down to it has not happened.
imo moore and newman are needed we cant go into a season almost totally bereft of mature players and mature bodies.

if we are serious about trading into early draft picks we had better be prepared to give up something decent.

imo we will keep our picks but again go for player for player picks or target once again mature types in other leagues hopefully this time around they will go after some bigger bodies who have decent foot skills and smarts. no more runts we are over loaded.

 

[Bazzar]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

clayton is no fool

He has done a brilliant job so far in enticing all the big names there. Yep, no fool

 

[guruisatiger]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Considering all the trouble GC are having attracting players, I'd put McGuane, Moore, Newman, White, Polo and Hislop up for trade (I'd add Thomson, but he has zero value).

I don't think it's too far beyond the realms of comprehension to end up with at least two first rounders and maybe one or two 3rd-5th round picks out of that lot. Newman is the 'name' player they desperately want and an instant captain (pick #7), McGuane and Moore is the instant decent defensive spine they'll struggle to provide any other way (picks 9 & 11 - 3 would be pushing it, but you never know, they do badly need mature bodies).

If we ended up with say picks 4, 7, 9/11 (or both) and 27, I'd offer one of 7/9/11 and maybe a minor sweetener to get Will Schofield.

Schofield's the ideal build, pace and agility for an AFL footballer, he's going to be capable of playing anywhere from KP to on the ball and he's only just started to blossom as a player. Penetrating, accurate kick, decent by hand, strong at ground level and in the air, wins contested ball and competes hard, fast enough to break lines yet 195cm, coming on in leaps and bounds with his decision making every game...he's going to be a very good defender I suspect and would make an ideal rebounding tall defender with two of Thursfield/Gourdis/Post. Reminds me a lot of Scarlett in his very early days, he only needs more experience and the confidence that comes from that to become a similar player (in style, I'm not saying he's going to be the best defender ever...before someone accuses me of saying that!).

He's very raw still, but he has all the attributes we need in a KPD, even if some of them are still in embryo form.

West Coast would surely be tempted to get another top-10 pick (they rightly prioritise mids and I'm sure they're feeling a fair way from secure with the developing ones they have) and they can cover his loss, the only rub is that his improvement this year has been out of sight and they may possibly consider him untradeable by the end of year if he keeps his current form up. He's not under the radar anymore unfortunately, but he's the perfect fit for us IMO and will end up being a significant upgrade on Moore/McGuane, who have both very much peaked as players.

I'd try to get Moss from Hawthorn for a late pick. Pelchen fancies himself every draft and Moss has a stack of attributes we need - great team man and a leader in his junior years, runs hard, smart player, decent skills, very dangerous up forward when resting there. He's had quite a few injury setbacks in the first part of his career and was nowhere near an AFL build, but seems to be over the injuries now, has put on weight and muscle and still has plenty of improvement left in him. He's not blessed with great pace, he's not overly tall, but he is an accumulator who uses the ball well and would fit in very nicely on a wing for us - the Hawks already have more than enough of his type, he's wasting away there. Being given 22 games in a row at AFL level instead of being in and out (out for players with more 'x factor') would do him the world of good and he would be a very solid addition for us.

We can't afford the luxury of letting Newman play out his career with us just for 'feel good' reasons while we could conceivably get a good junior for him instead of two more years for us, and no decent side in future years will be able to carry two, let alone three bugger all rebound KPD's like Moore, McGuane and Thursfield, we need to get something for them while the opportunity is there. If GC don't want both of them then deal with Hawthorn, the Saints or someone else.

I'd appoint Reiwoldt captain after trading Newman, I think he'd finish growing up overnight if given the role and would quickly become the vocal, inspiring captain Newman could only dream of being, and in all honesty, Moore and McGuane are so inconsistent we really wouldn't miss them in the long term - certainly not enough to give up the chance to get a couple more first round juniors in.

If we can get decent early picks for these players then we HAVE to do it, but sadly, we won't.

are u serious ?????????????

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Which other club is going to offer up mid-career decent KPD's and a club captain to the GC? They need to field a respectable, competitive side with senior bodies and leaders way ahead of needing to protect Clayton's reputation, he knows he's on a hiding to nothing and will have to cop it sweet - he's sure as hell not going to have the option of drafting only good kids and the GC not winning a game for 3-4 years.

We can afford to offer up all of them, they'd hardly be missed in the short term and certainly not in the long term. And if the uncontracted players are as horrible a list as it appears at face value to be, it won't surprise me at all to see them making late round offers for players of Polo, Hislop and White's ilk.

I look at the introduction of the new teams as an opportunity, if we can jag a couple of early picks for players we can cover, we'd be fools not to trade aggressively.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

I don't think anyone is suggesting that we don't offer them up....BUT WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SMOKING?

Seriously McGuane and Moore for a top 10 pick are you joking? We would be lucky to get a top 40 pick, they are not the backline of a bottom team for a reason. You are seriously deluded if you think we would get anything near that.

Newman is worth more and if they cannot attract senior players then I think we may be able to secure a late pick in the teens but probably one more likely in the 20's purely because they would be desperate for some experiance and an AFL captain would give that. However in syaing that Dimma really rates Newmans leadership and I don't think you would see too many clubs trade out there Captain these days.

I would offer up any player bar: Deledio, Cotchin, Foley, Martin, Riewoldt but would only trade them if 1 they are going either way or 2 we got a good deal for a player like Moore.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

I look at the introduction of the new teams as an opportunity, if we can jag a couple of early picks for players we can cover, we'd be fools not to trade aggressively.

Agree 100%, but like others I'm not sure we'd get the picks as high as the ones in your hypothetical. GC will be determined to hold onto all its top 10 picks.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Agree 100%, but like others I'm not sure we'd get the picks as high as the ones in your hypothetical. GC will be determined to hold onto all its top 10 picks.

Strongly disagree with that mate, how can they hold onto all their top-10 picks and field a side that isn't U/19's with a handful of horrible hacks thrown in? The AFL is very insistent that they be competitive straight away and I'm sure the club takes the same view, if they can't sign anyone worthwhile (which is very much how it looks at this stage), what other choice do they have but to trade their picks away? And let's not forget that to offset any picks they trade away - and on top of the kids they already have - they get zone access to the five best kids from QLD and the three best from the NT.

They don't get any extra picks after rd.1 - they're going to have to deal in first round picks and get the best available for them. As I said, who else is going to offer them good quality, mid-career KPP's? Any I can think of who are plausible trade bait are nowhere near Moore/McGuane in terms of playing years left and capability.

Nobody else is going to offer up a player and leader of Newman's calibre...as I said in my initial post, I don't think trying for two first rounders (from the nine they have) from those three players is unreasonable, nor do I think GC can afford to overlook players like Polo, Hislop and White with their 3-5th round picks.

Josh Gibson drew Hawthorn's 2nd AND 3rd round picks last trade period, Moore is the same age, McGuane is three years younger, both have far more runs on the board as KPD's who've played on the best in the comp when compared to Gibson. These type of players don't grow on trees and even the average ones can command a good pick when traded to the right team in the right draft.

Ultimately, the last thing GC can afford to do is play lightly framed kids in key roles and wreck their bodies/confidence...doesn't matter how many first round selections you get if you can't nurse them into maturity properly.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Ray, I hope you're right. GC have come out and said they intend to hold onto all their top-10 picks but as you say, they're struggling to attract uncontracted players - that we know of. Pretty strong talk that Bitchslap Brown and Boak will go there and I'm sure they'll shake a few more loose.

As much as trading Newman for a top-10 pick would help our future list strength, there is no way we will. Trading a popular captain is not a good way to encourage your talented young blokes that you'll look after them. Newman won't want to go either. He's eligible for the veterans' list next year so he'll earn more money with us than anywhere else.

You're right though that we should be trying like hell to get an extra first-round pick or two but I just hope we don't go too early. Better to let them sweat and come in late with an offer they'll be relieved to accept, rather than appear too eager and get a worse pick because they're hanging onto the better ones in the hope of trading for someone else.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

As much as trading Newman for a top-10 pick would help our future list strength, there is no way we will.

Nah, wasn't suggesting we would (said as much at the end of my initial post), but the thread was about what I would do, not what we will do.

I'd pitch it to the players along the lines of Newman being an unfortunate sacrifice to end an unfortunate era and set us up for one where we're not forced to make similar decisions, but I would also be pointing out that in the new club mentality we're building, only players who work their arses off every game, every year, deserve any kind of privilege of immunity from the harsh realities of AFL in the current era.

Better to let them sweat and come in late with an offer they'll be relieved to accept, rather than appear too eager and get a worse pick because they're hanging onto the better ones in the hope of trading for someone else.

True enough, and it's not like Moore and McGuane don't have general currency, it's just likely to be considerably less than what GC can afford.

I'm also mindful that GC will really have to grab ankles to get a half decent ruck in the current marketplace...IMO that'll almost certainly dictate everything else they're able to do.

 

[Mr Magic]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

I forgot Newman would get on the Veterans list next year.

Probably should keep him then if he wants to stay from a value/leadership/output perspective particularly as we sort out future captains later on.

You never know he may jag a premiership in his last year or so with us but it will be tight for him he has to recognise.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Rayzor I wish your suggestions were right but I think you are asking to much. Moore and McGuane are decent average players but not "quality KPD" as you suggested. If you packaged both of them then you may be able to get a first round pick around 11-15 purely because they will need some half decent mature players and can afford to chop off a few picks.

 

[Bazzar]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

I forgot Newman would get on the Veterans list next year.

He has just turned 28 so it will be 3 years away. Must be 30 years of age or older as at 31 December before the next AFL Season

 

[Rayzorwire]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Rayzor I wish your suggestions were right but I think you are asking to much. Moore and McGuane are decent average players but not "quality KPD" as you suggested.

You've used a direct quote amcre - "..." - yet nowhere have I said they were "quality KPD," I've used the qualifier "decent" alongside quality twice (which also happens to be the qualifier you've used above) and asked which other clubs are going to be offering up "good quality" KPP's.

If you packaged both of them then you may be able to get a first round pick around 11-15 purely because they will need some half decent mature players and can afford to chop off a few picks.

Gibson was proven to be worth 25 AND 41, taking two of a premiership contender and known hard trader's first three picks to get him, but you contend we need to offer both McGuane and Moore (who are both more proven as genuine KPD's when compared to Gibson) to extract just pick 11-15 from a club that has nine first round picks?

At your apparent recognition of player value, the GC would be able to buy a very competitive spine, ruck and midfield with 3-4 picks and still keep their first 5-6 picks...getting two for the price of 1/2 - 3/4 of a players' actual value the whole way.

In their dreams.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

I think you are overrating McGuane and Moores ability and there trade value.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

He has just turned 28 so it will be 3 years away. Must be 30 years of age or older as at 31 December before the next AFL Season

Really? I thought it was 10 years service. If it's not it should be.

I forgot to add Newman won't want to leave because he's loyal, loves the Tigers etc.

 

[TigerTime88]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

What do you guys reckon we should do draft wise this year? I think it comes down to a few things...

1. What Griff and Astbury show. Riewoldt has already put his hand up and said I will be numero uno on the forward line unless someone takes the title off me, so if one of these guys can show a bit we will not need to recruit Darling at pick 4.

2. The Goo, Posty, Thursty, McGuane and Moore...3 of these guys need to be good enough to be in our back 6. Moore, McGuane and Thurs have shown they are adequte but ideally we need 1 of Goo or Post to be the big defender to take on the monsters. I think Goo is that kid...quick, huge leap and big + strong. All the attributes of a good FB.

Thus I think we can trade 1 of McGuane, Moore or Thursty...whoever gets the best offer. Personally McGuane provides the best run, Moore the best skills and decision making (my choice to keep) and Thursty decent defender but no real attack. Either way our KPD stocks are fairly good for the time being. We could recruit some moore KPD with 1 of the picsk in the draft.

The point I am trying to make is that if these kids show enough between now and round 22 I think our first 3 picks 4, 26 and 27 (ruckman here maybe) should all be midfielders.

Then next year with a priority I would go midfielder again at 4 and 6. Obviously depends on our talls but I am confident with the recruiting so far. IMO our side could look like:

Morton Griffiths, Riewoldt
Edwards Astbury Nason
Bennell(4 this year) Cotchin Deledio
Connors Post Tambling
Moore Goo Newman

Vickery, Foley, Martin

pick 4 next yr, pick 6 next yr, Collins, ruckman

Depth: Nahas, Rance, Thursfield, Graham, Webberley, Dea, Taylor

Just a rough draft of the side I would be trying to put together with some decent tanking next year. TBH I really like the look of it. Considering you could add a raft of other youngsters that hopefully show a bit being 2nd rounders and then the late picks that might show something. I think the talent we are building is exceptional and the next step is to build via the engine room. Keep giving Cotchin, Martin, foley, Lids support. Add on top of this that if we build an engine room and then with free agency target a big name like Carlton did I think we are in the window within 3 years.

BUILD THE ENGINE ROOM DIMMA...CHOO CHOOO

 

[santa claws]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

You've used a direct quote amcre - "..." - yet nowhere have I said they were "quality KPD," I've used the qualifier "decent" alongside quality twice (which also happens to be the qualifier you've used above) and asked which other clubs are going to be offering up "good quality" KPP's.

lol isnt that gold. its almost claytons like. you lot know the one the drink you have when your not having a drink.

rasor speak, the things you say when you dont really say them. ah shit its so funny.

 

[santa claws]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

how do gc 17 get their hands on mature players without giving away their top 10 picks. its pretty easy.

how many players did they take last yr. blokes like harris. its a genuine question how many did they take.
if rumours are correct quentin lynch brown and boak all un contracted are going. any uncontracted who comes out of contracted will be targeted. i wouldnt be surprised if they dont end up with more mature players than what we have.
if anyone thinks clayton is not prepared to do the hard yards in the first 4 or 5 seasons they are kidding themselves. the thing is if they get it right, without trading anything away they will play finals in 4 or 5 seasons. the club and the afl will be more than happy with that.
nearly everything that has been set up and done for the new teams has been done with a policy where youth is the cornerstone to success.

it makes me chuckle the media and most everyone is focusing on star players going to gc at the cost of early picks.
but its really the number of plain old core list players they can get that enables them to quickly develop the myriad of decent draft picks they will have. these middle of the road players and yep some below standard bigger bodies will both keep their picks and enable them the time to develop their kids.

a question if you were a queenslander and was keen enough to become a member of the new franchise what would be most important to you. clearly any thinking person would say talented kids.

 

[IDGAF]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Trading a popular captain

Jeff Hogg

 

[richoatthedisco]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

Jeff Hogg

I knew someone would bring that up. And it was a good trade for us given that Hoggy was effectively finished anyway. But who's to say that trade didn't make the likes of Daffy think 'better milk this for all I can'?

 

[IDGAF]

Re: Craig Cameron says we will be trading. What would be your strategy?

I knew someone would bring that up. And it was a good trade for us given that Hoggy was effectively finished anyway. But who's to say that trade didn't make the likes of Daffy think 'better milk this for all I can'?

I dunno ... but we were playing the best footy this club has played for nearly 30 years just 12 months later

Newman is an "under the odds" captain , and i'll admit its foolish to pass judgement when one is not deep within the bowels RFC ... but if the right offer came up .

We also traded a "spiritual leader" in Chris Bond pretty successfully , but i will admit the cost is something that is pretty immeasureable.

You never know ... Martin , Cotch , lids etc might sit around the club s******ing amongst themselves about Newman and what a spud of a captain he is ... Joe idiot on the street just would not know about these machinations