Rumour CROWS-RELATED TRADE RUMOURS - ALL trade rumours go here!

[Crow-mo]

Look, I get that you now have a complete hatred of Craig, and whether it is rational or not or for a longer discussion. The fact that he completely outcoached the opposition in his last three games is a tick, in my book.

But, even if his time HAS passed at the Crows - I don't think you could argue that he hasn't developed players well. Our strike rate with picks wouldn;t be worse than anyone elses.

ok i've debunked this peculiar idea that we have outcoached our opposition privately, and well I am just surprised you think collingwood and particularly St Kilda were going full tilt.

as for the development, well much has been discussed on the subject and its safe to say its not a strength of his. maybe he's average, maybe he's not, but in no way is it one of his plus points.

 

[footy4ever]

Apparently there is a mega deal in place involving Adelaide, Collingwood, Fremantle and C Knights, J Fraser, L Davis & R Palmer & draft picks but I think it means Knights & Palmer to Collingwood, Fraser to Adelaide, Davis to Fremantle.
J Griffin & Schammer might be linked up as well

I would rather shove barbed wire in my eye.

 

[amer]

It's a hell of a price. Gee whiz. Crow-mo - remember you said just recently, if securing x player means a premiership, it wouldn't matter in hindsight if you had paid double. If the club really feels 2011 is the year, that it has the group (which I think they do, but the proof as always will be in the pudding), then perhaps it's a risk they take. But christ, second I saw that proposed trade from Rowey I baulked. It's a shitload to put out there, especially if that unnamed player is someone of the calibre of Knights.

 

[King Elvis]

Except Rischetelli is a far better player.

And Pavlich is a better option than Fevola.

But re the Knights/Fraser garbage I'd certainly be adding to that pile!

Wasn't making the comparison as players; look at what 'betraying' two loyal players in Bradshaw/Risch did to Brisbane - they're apparently a mess, and more players might be walking out on them.

You don't do that to players who are loyal and given the Club everything theyv'e got.

 

[Crow-mo]

lol

Trade trade trade crow mo.

There is only now, no point planning for a future that may never come.

Doesnt matter the cost, right? No one thinks or cares about what we paid for Jarman and Mcleod, we could pay double...etc etc.

Make up your mind.

I'd have even you can tell the difference between a discussion on craigs motivations and what I think should happen.

i'd also think you were capable of understand the difference between paying for the right player vs the wrong one.

these are very lowgrade standards i'm expecting from you. sharpen up eh?

 

[amer]

The latest Steven Rowe rumour is that Pav is interested in returning.....

He reckons:

1) Gold Coast have offered him $1.1M per year over 3 years.
2) Collingwood have offered him $900K per year.
3) The Crows have offered him $800K per year over 3 years.
4) His preferred destination is Adelaide, but wants them to cough up another $200K per year.
5) Crows and Freo agreed to Crows first 2 picks, griffen, and another undisclosed player.

Take it as you like, but he also reckons Alistair Clarkson either met with Port in Melbourne today or is on a plane to Adelaide as we speak. So it looks like its his typical star-gazing.

To clarify - by our first 2 picks are we to believe they mean our first and second rounders, or our first rounder and the Bock compensatory selection? It's the latter that caused me to baulk (assuming that undisclosed player is of the calibre I suspect).

 

[Stiffy_18]

No need to respond to anyone else, this is correct. If he misses the 2011 finals - he is out of a fob, hence why he will recruit to save his job.

If his development of younger players was as awesome as everyone says it is, this would be the year we would do zero trades as he NOW has the cattle to unleash. However, all of a sudden he is saying we must trade. But why, to save his job as he cannot develop younger players.

If we give up 2 first round picks, Griffin and another player for Pavlich - we will be screwed for a long time as he is only after saving his job. It should be and i'm sorry Fremantle but we're screwing you over to get Pavlich but it should be pick 14 for Pavlich or nothing.

We all know Pavlich is worth much, much more than that but in the best interest of the Adelaide Crows - we cannot afford to give up anything more than pick 14

Care to name 1st round picks that he has failed to develop?! Sellar maybe?! Anyone else?!

Also, its so short sighted to say that if his development was so awsome we wouldn't need to trade. Thats just extremly simplistic and quite frankly stupid way of looking at this.

Tell us how can you develop something that is not there. You can't turn someone into a great footballer if they do not have that kind of talent. You cannot develop outside midfielders if all you are drafting is talls.

The way you are constructing your argument is about as strong as a castle made out of playing cards.

I ask you one simple question, if hypothetically AFC and Craig parted ways tomorrow (literally) and the new coach still wanted us to get Pavlich, would you still have the same opinion?! I very much doubt it!

Craig said he doesn't liek trading, he doesn't like what it stands for but he understands its part and parcel of the game. He has done it every year and every year he has justified his lack of trading by the profile of our list.

THe profile of our list now is VERY different than any other time during Craig's reign and quite rightly he is looking to add some experienced A grade talent to the list. Now whether Pavlich is the right piece to fit is definetly debatable and I have my own conerns on this but fact is we also had a crack at Griffen who IMHO would have been a perfect fit.

Considering where we have been picking in teh draft during Craig's era he has done a very good job in developing players. I would suspect that his strike rate would be well above average overall.

 

[macca23]

So in other words we are not going to get him considering that we would never in a million years offer $1million to anyone!

It would have to be a MAJOR marketing component outside the cap at which point it becomes potential salary cap tampering!

And the undisclosed player would have to be someone pretty good for the money to add up! Who that player is depends on whether or not this trade is worth it!

But you are right, its probably more of Rowe's bullshit than anything concrete.

AFL clubs could always offer marketing fees to players that are outside the salary cap but the money for the marketing fee has a cap on it as well. Considering that a lot of our marketing fee would have been burnt up in Tippett negotiations, I am not sure there is much to go there.

Quite frankly, the "undisclosed" player bit is the deal breaker for me. If its someone of significant value (obvious choice being Knights via Melb club) then its way too much. If its someone of lesser value then I woudl sign off on it.

The problem is though that we reportedly have $500K to spend so for us to be offering $800K it would mean that we are prepared to part with a pretty good player who would be making $300K. To up that offer for another $200K would be fairly significant.

To me its all about who the undisclosed player might be. Personally, for me thats a deal breaker.

Nah, Stiffy, it's not all bullshit from Rowey. I can't verify what we would have to give up, but I did post here that I had been told from an impeccable source very close to the action that Pav was unsettled about his future and had approached Adelaide about the possibility of a trade.

Firstly in what we would have to give Pav himself to come, IMO we'll get him at that $800k per year - which is all he'd get at Freo and he'd be coming home. The Gold Coast figure is irrelevant IMO as is the Collingwood figure because he will only be in one of 2 places - Freo or Adelaide. If not $800, maybe $850k max IMO.

Pav's manager has obviously hawked him around a bit to get a high price on his head before approaching Adelaide to ensure a high offer from Adelaide, but let's not fall for that.

As for what Freo get for Pavlich, they only have 2 years of ownership left in him, because free agency comes in at the end of 2012, and he won't be at Freo after that IMO. That reduces somewhat what we should be paying to get Pav, although a 1st and 2nd rounder in this draft plus Griffin is not overly exciting, which is why there may be another player added to that.

That's why I've highlighted your comments about the undisclosed player. It just can't be Knights or we are being r*ped. As you say, it's the deal-maker or deal-breaker.

One of Armstrong or Cook would be acceptable, or if they want a WA boy then VB is off limits IMO, leaving Jacky and Stevens, and as far as I'm concerned they can pick the bones out of those 4 - but no more than that.

We need Knights as the base of a trade to get us Jacobs and Walker from Carlton.

 

[relapse]

Sorry Stiff,

I just do not accept that this is all part of a carefully balanced and judged master plan.

last year we had NO needs at all, and this year... not buying it.

I agree with you, if we go trade crazy this year for me it will just further highlight that Craig does not have a long term plan and that his mindset continues to be that of a finishing coach rather than a developmental coach.

The need for a ruckman has been evident for a while, but we ignore the trade market last year when there were two quality ruckmen available to now suddenly the club is saying that trading is a priority. I just hope that Craig starts looking and coaching further ahead than just the next 12 months and doesnt resort to shopping for quick fixes in an effort to try and get us back in the bottom half of the top eight.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Nah, Stiffy, it's not all bullshit from Rowey. I can't verify what we would have to give up, but I did post here that I had been told from an impeccable source very close to the action that Pav was unsettled about his future and had approached Adelaide about the possibility of a trade.

Firstly in what we would have to give Pav himself to come, IMO we'll get him at that $800k per year - which is all he'd get at Freo and he'd be coming home. The Gold Coast figure is irrelevant IMO as is the Collingwood figure because he will only be in one of 2 places - Freo or Adelaide. If not $800, maybe $850k max IMO.

Pav's manager has obviously hawked him around a bit to get a high price on his head before approaching Adelaide to ensure a high offer from Adelaide, but let's not fall for that.

As for what Freo get for Pavlich, they only have 2 years of ownership left in him, because free agency comes in at the end of 2012, and he won't be at Freo after that IMO. That reduces somewhat what we should be paying to get Pav, although a 1st and 2nd rounder in this draft plus Griffin is not overly exciting, which is why there may be another player added to that.

That's why I've highlighted your comments about the undisclosed player. It just can't be Knights or we are being r*ped. As you say, it's the deal-maker or deal-breaker.

One of Armstrong or Cook would be acceptable, or if they want a WA boy then VB is off limits IMO, leaving Jacky and Stevens, and as far as I'm concerned they can pick the bones out of those 4 - but no more than that.

We need Knights as the base of a trade to get us Jacobs and Walker from Carlton.

Look I have not doubt that Pav has interest in coming back to SA as he has said he would love to finish his career in SA just about every time he has re-signed with Freo.

Thats no secret. I also do not doubt your source because I think I have a VERY good idea who we are talking about here.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to get Pavlich as he would instantly make us better and without a doubt he would be our captain. That is a certainty IMHO. However, its all about cost for me.

I am not bulking at the 1st rounder, 2nd rounder (whether its our own or Bock compo its irrelevant), Griffin part of the deal. Its the undisclosed player that I would be interested to know who it might be (if in fact the deal is in place as Rowey suggested). If its Knigths, I politely say no thank you and move on. If its amid range player I am happy to accept that.

Personally, I would absolutely LOVE to keep Knights. I still think he is a damaging player especially as a HF who has a run onball so I am not keen on Jacobs and Walker idea.

I would be more than happy to trade our 2nd rounder or Bock compo pick (which ever is not tied up in the alleged Pavlich deal) to get Jacobs and that would be enough IMHO...and I am not keen on Walker personally.

I am not holding my breath on this one but I would be very happy to get an A grader depending on a number of things. Happy to get Pavlich but it would depend on the cost. Its all about who the undisclosed player might be. Thats a deal-breaker or deal-maker for me.

 

[amer]

Pav coming to Adelaide could have an enormously positive impact on Walker's career. Yes, positive. He'd have so much to teach the kid in terms of work rate, physical presence etc. Nothing short of career defining stuff potentially. But I'm with stiffy_18, throw Knights away for this and I'd feel more than a little uncomfortable.

 

[amer]

Care to name 1st round picks that he has failed to develop?! Sellar maybe?! Anyone else?!

Also, its so short sighted to say that if his development was so awsome we wouldn't need to trade. Thats just extremly simplistic and quite frankly stupid way of looking at this.

Tell us how can you develop something that is not there. You can't turn someone into a great footballer if they do not have that kind of talent. You cannot develop outside midfielders if all you are drafting is talls.

The way you are constructing your argument is about as strong as a castle made out of playing cards.

I ask you one simple question, if hypothetically AFC and Craig parted ways tomorrow (literally) and the new coach still wanted us to get Pavlich, would you still have the same opinion?! I very much doubt it!

Craig said he doesn't liek trading, he doesn't like what it stands for but he understands its part and parcel of the game. He has done it every year and every year he has justified his lack of trading by the profile of our list.

THe profile of our list now is VERY different than any other time during Craig's reign and quite rightly he is looking to add some experienced A grade talent to the list. Now whether Pavlich is the right piece to fit is definetly debatable and I have my own conerns on this but fact is we also had a crack at Griffen who IMHO would have been a perfect fit.

Considering where we have been picking in teh draft during Craig's era he has done a very good job in developing players. I would suspect that his strike rate would be well above average overall.

Yes, yes, yes. Spot on. That's precisely where it sits. Overly cynical to call it differently.

 

[whitey_1975]

Personally I would not trade 2 players and first 2 picks for Pavlich. Yes 3 or 4 years ago, but now? NO WAY. We desperately need a polished outside mid and the only way we may get one of these is in the draft or trading for Griffen. We missed that boat (if it was ever sailing) so I would prefer we draft.

As for learning the craft from Pavlich for Walker and Tippett, well I would prefer we replaced our forward line coach with someone who had any idea whatsoever about forward line structures and delivery. Yes, you may interpret this as- 'Get rid of Noble'.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Sorry Stiff,

I just do not accept that this is all part of a carefully balanced and judged master plan.

last year we had NO needs at all, and this year... not buying it.

Oh no....we definetly had needs last year as well BUT here is the thing that is getting ignored here, the needs cannot be filled in every single trade period satisfactorly and needs to change from year to year depending on a number of things.

Last year we didn't really need to recruit experienced players. This year we do. Last year Griffen and Pavlich were not available, this year they might be (well in Griffen's case he no longer is).

Just using Pavlich as an example, if we approached Freo last year asking about his we would have been laughed off. This year things might be different.

Same with Griffen, as a contracted player no way in hell WB would have traded him but if he said he wanted to traded and he is uncontracted, then its a completely different scenario.

Last year we might have screwed up with Mumford and possibly Ball but other than those 2, there really was not much that was a realistic chance.

Fact is, you recruit players based on thier availability (uncontracted) or potential availability (put up as trade bait) and anything in between is really not an option 99% of the time.

So if something is not there, you are not going to go after it regardless of your needs.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Personally I would not trade 2 players and first 2 picks for Pavlich. Yes 3 or 4 years ago, but now? NO WAY. We desperately need a polished outside mid and the only way we may get one of these is in the draft or trading for Griffen. We missed that boat (if it was ever sailing) so I would prefer we draft.

As for learning the craft from Pavlich for Walker and Tippett, well I would prefer we replaced our forward line coach with someone who had any idea whatsoever about forward line structures and delivery. Yes, you may interpret this as- 'Get rid of Noble'.

With pick 14 in a compromised draft you are not going to get much and with pick 31 even less so.

In this year's draft and possibly for the next 2-3, the value of picks is greatly diminished. Pick 14 will potentially get you a good player who is a few years away from developing and even then its a pretty big risk.

And this is still not accounting for the need of experienced A graders to lead the way while the rest of the players come into their own.

Picks 14, 31 and Griffin is bugger all to pay for Pavlich even if he only has 2-3 good years left in him. Its who the undisclosed player is that is the most important part here.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Its who the undisclosed player is that is the most important part here.

Maybe we could offer them the X-FACTOR

 

[Cap]

matthew smith?

 

[Stiffy_18]

matthew smith?

macca23's all time favourite!

 

[dplggr47]

jack jack jacky!!!

 

[Elite Crow]

Nah, Stiffy, it's not all bullshit from Rowey. I can't verify what we would have to give up, but I did post here that I had been told from an impeccable source very close to the action that Pav was unsettled about his future and had approached Adelaide about the possibility of a trade.

Firstly in what we would have to give Pav himself to come, IMO we'll get him at that $800k per year - which is all he'd get at Freo and he'd be coming home. The Gold Coast figure is irrelevant IMO as is the Collingwood figure because he will only be in one of 2 places - Freo or Adelaide. If not $800, maybe $850k max IMO.

Pav's manager has obviously hawked him around a bit to get a high price on his head before approaching Adelaide to ensure a high offer from Adelaide, but let's not fall for that.

As for what Freo get for Pavlich, they only have 2 years of ownership left in him, because free agency comes in at the end of 2012, and he won't be at Freo after that IMO. That reduces somewhat what we should be paying to get Pav, although a 1st and 2nd rounder in this draft plus Griffin is not overly exciting, which is why there may be another player added to that.

That's why I've highlighted your comments about the undisclosed player. It just can't be Knights or we are being r*ped. As you say, it's the deal-maker or deal-breaker.

One of Armstrong or Cook would be acceptable, or if they want a WA boy then VB is off limits IMO, leaving Jacky and Stevens, and as far as I'm concerned they can pick the bones out of those 4 - but no more than that.

We need Knights as the base of a trade to get us Jacobs and Walker from Carlton.

Macca are we a serious player for Jacobs and Walker?

 

[whitey_1975]

With pick 14 in a compromised draft you are not going to get much and with pick 31 even less so.

In this year's draft and possibly for the next 2-3, the value of picks is greatly diminished. Pick 14 will potentially get you a good player who is a few years away from developing and even then its a pretty big risk.

And this is still not accounting for the need of experienced A graders to lead the way while the rest of the players come into their own.

Picks 14, 31 and Griffin is bugger all to pay for Pavlich even if he only has 2-3 good years left in him. Its who the undisclosed player is that is the most important part here.

I think this is far too short sighted imo.
You make sense in what you say, and yes the undisclosed player is important, i am just not in favour of recruiting players with a 2-3 year shelf life, no matter how good, a 29 year old Judd or Ablett for that matter included.
And if i recall Nick Dal went around pick 15 odd, we would love to have someone like him, his footy was very good from his second year on the list onwards. Yes i realize the odds for this , just my preference.

 

[macca23]

macca23's all time favourite!

Matthew Smith??

The greatest list clogger of all time!!

5 years on the list and still never deserved to pull on the guernsey and didn't.

Too slow to be a flanker, too small to be a KPP.

On top of that he was a ranga with white pasty legs!!

What were they thinking!!

*shakes head in disbelief*

 

[Stiffy_18]

I think this is far too short sighted imo.
You make sense in what you say, and yes the undisclosed player is important, i am just not in favour of recruiting players with a 2-3 year shelf life, no matter how good, a 29 year old Judd or Ablett for that matter included.
And if i recall Nick Dal went around pick 15 odd, we would love to have someone like him, his footy was very good from his second year on the list onwards. Yes i realize the odds for this , just my preference.

Nick Dal Santo was pick 13 in one of the strongest drafts in the hisotry of the game. This draft will not even come close. This particular draft has been raided for already by GC picking up the best 17 year olds last year. That in itself diluted the draft significantly. Add to that the fact that they have a ridicilous number of picks in this draft (top 10 alone) and its going to be a washed down draft big time.

This could quite possibly turn out to be one of the worst drafts in a VERY VERY Long time.

 

[macca23]

Macca are we a serious player for Jacobs and Walker?

With Jacobs, it depends on Griffin to some degree and also what we have to give up.

Jacobs is at leat 3rd in line at Carlton, maybe 4th, and relatively young. Has some genuine height, and is a SA boy.

Port are interested in him too, so they may inflate his trade worth a bit high, but yes we have been sniffing around there. He has a lot more go in him than Griffin.

Walker is an interesting one. Craig must see something in him that he really likes, because we did try and get him last year. My understanding is that we have been making enquiries about him again this year.

His trade value is probably lower this year, so if we can pick him up at not too great a cost, then yes, once again we'd be a player.

 

[Elite Crow]

With Jacobs, it depends on Griffin to some degree and also what we have to give up.

Jacobs is at leat 3rd in line at Carlton, maybe 4th, and relatively young. Has some genuine height, and is a SA boy.

Port are interested in him too, so they may inflate his trade worth a bit high, but yes we have been sniffing around there. He has a lot more go in him than Griffin.

.

I suppose one of the advantages of finishing towards the bottom and below Port is we may be able to use the preseason draft to our advantage. Could Jacobs slide to us if he made it clear he wanted to come to SA only?