Crows squad circa 2011

[Coopers]

I wouldn't mind trading Cook either.

The club do rate him, but you would have to say that his disposal just isn't at the level required. It was a problem when he was drafted and it's still a problem now.

It's a problem, but he's a real young kid - I think we're expecting too much of him. He's also played in the guts a lot, no easy introduction running lazily free on the wing or half back.

We should keep him on - look what happens when players hit that 22-23 year old range. A lot of us weren't convinced about Vince, Dougie, Porpoise. All of them hit that age and it became clear, one way or the other.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I see him as a sweetener in trade deals.

But otherwise, he won't be delisted, especially not if Bock goes.

I'd actually prefer Bock to go...a 27yo who we will get fair value for rather than a 21yo who we have developed, will be a valuable player imo, and we'll get nothing like decent compensation for him.

Does anyone remember what Bock was like 6 years ago?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Sellar is just as valuable at age 27...huge call, maybe ridiculous call, but 'bump thread in 6 years time if i'm right' call.

 

[thebirdman 24]

I'm very worried Bock's already gone, which is worrying because hes such a good player, he play in that final instead of Hentchel, Burton or Stevens, we win.

 

[craig crowing]

Didn't think about Doughty to 'veterans list' before...if it's a choice between that or an extra rookie pick then we might as well keep him for depth.

Agree with the rest of the departures, though i wish Jacky would give us a tiny glimpse of hope much like Griffin has done.

If needing an additional spot, I wouldn't be against declining to upgrade Schmidt and simply take the chance that we can re-rookie him. Seriously, if another club took him, good luck to him but he will never hurt us much in the future.

Re Sellar, i would hope there is a 0% chance of delisting him. Just as he looked like he would take the game on this year, he was injured. He isn't getting huge SANFL numbers but his work around the packs has been very good...great hands, very capable 2nd ruck, work ethic, much improved agility (has grown into his body now), good kick on him. I'm a fan...given a chance he'll be a great asset. Should have played instead of Stevens today. This week it should be Bock for Stevens, with Sellar the next in if anyone over 190cm gets injured, no matter what their position.

The other smokey for delisting could be Moran, like Hentschel he needs to prove his durability...but is younger, a natural athlete and is one of only 3 1R's on the list, so should get one more year.

Re trades, Bock didn't exactly sound convincing re contract negotiations...maybe he is off to GC?

Yes I agree I think Bocky is gone to GC and Thommo just looking for more money.
Other trades of course could be Knights and McKernan ( just going backwards at the moment) so assume not happy where he is at .
You would think either Sellar or Moran would not both be given another year and feel that Moran almost certainity to be delisted along with Jacky ( sorry Amer there is no solid reason to even think about keeping).
Hentschell will be delisted if doesnt retire .
McLeod will be forced due to injury retire.
If Bock goes probably keep Stevens as backline insurance but certainly been affected by concussion problems in approach to ball.
Personally unless Schmidt can get back in team and really show something of real value to team cant see him being upgraded as kids are showing more of upside than he was showing .

Doughty showed yesterday worthwile to put on veterans list.

 

[whitey_1975]

I'd actually prefer Bock to go...a 27yo who we will get fair value for rather than a 21yo who we have developed, will be a valuable player imo, and we'll get nothing like decent compensation for him.

Does anyone remember what Bock was like 6 years ago?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if Sellar is just as valuable at age 27...huge call, maybe ridiculous call, but 'bump thread in 6 years time if i'm right' call.

Huge call?, Ridiculous call? No way Sellar's attitude and 100% commitment on the field, and now he believes in his own talent, I cant wait for him to play again, he will be a great player for the Crows, and yes i would have him in for Stevens in a heartbeat. I have always hated Stevens as a player. When the real pressure is on bar once in his career, he looks the first to fumble, make shit decisions under minimal pressure and horrendous ones under some real on field pressure.(imo)
Did anyone go to the game, see the game against Centrals on the weekend, despite injury and limited game time, some of his ruckwork was dead set perfect,, he is way hard at it and his in close handballs were midfielder like. And he loves to throw his considerable frame around. COMMITED TO THE CAUSE, and despite Mickan refusing to use him to much cause he knows he will be a long term crows player, he was the best team man all day, positive to his team mates, stood near the interchange gate when not on patting all the boys, he is a bloke you want around you. Come on Jimmy!!!!!!!!

PS and people calling for Jacky and Cook to be delisted, do you people know anything about people, as people not footballers, Does anyone care to remember that Liam Jurrah couldnt make it on Colligwoods list. MMMM made a good impression on Melbournes though. Craigy is right to persist with him for next year aswell, he does have somethings about him that once he believes, he will make it, imo. And Cook will make it he has all the skills and those he is rusty on he has excellent work ethic to iron out flaws. We love to cut people down quickly on this forum. Amer and Drummond are right on these 2. we will see.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

his in close handballs were midfielder like.

Absolutely.

Saw it on TV and was extremely impressed with Sellar in the packs.

Under immense pressure from multiple opponents, he forced his arms clear, had great vision, chose the right options and executed perfectly to put a free teammate in clear possession. Did this multiple times.

The only thing Stevens has on him at present is the ability to be a free 3rd man up and judge the incoming ball in the air (an important skill that hopefully Sellar continues to develop). Apart from that he is the perfect swingman.

Can ruck, and i believe has the ability to play key position at either end. If given the chance, he will bring running players into the game beautifully, as well as provide a link up option himself.

If any of Rutten, Bock, Davis, Maric, Griffin, Walker, Tippett, Henderson get injured, Big Jim is your man

 

[lunacy]

Absolutely.

Saw it on TV and was extremely impressed with Sellar in the packs.

Under immense pressure from multiple opponents, he forced his arms clear, had great vision, chose the right options and executed perfectly to put a free teammate in clear possession. Did this multiple times.

The only thing Stevens has on him at present is the ability to be a free 3rd man up and judge the incoming ball in the air (an important skill that hopefully Sellar continues to develop). Apart from that he is the perfect swingman.

Can ruck, and i believe has the ability to play key position at either end. If given the chance, he will bring running players into the game beautifully, as well as provide a link up option himself.

If any of Rutten, Bock, Davis, Maric, Griffin, Walker, Tippett, Henderson get injured, Big Jim is your man

TLF8, looking to next year, who would be your 1st choice swingman? IMO the players capable of this are Davis, Sellar, Stevens, McKernen and Talia (although I dont like him up forward).

Mine is Davis as I think Walker and Tippett have permanent foward positions locked in. And I dont see the club playing Walker, Tippett AND Davis permanently up forward if guys like Henderson and/or Gunston are up there as well. I think they'll go for Walker, Tippett and probably 1 of Gunston or Henderson with the swingman playing some time up forward.

Sellar for mine is still best suited to 2nd ruck and has shown some signs in defense. Hasnt shown much up forward at AFL level but hasnt been given much time up there. I think in time McKernen will be a good option as swingman as well.'

But as a key position swingman I have Davis locked as number 1. Natural footballer with great skills and a good feel for the game (priority for a swing man).

Sellar is probably best candidate for pinch hitting 2nd ruck come defender.

McKernen to make up big ground next year imo.

 

[Riggy1]

I wouldn't be suprised if we held onto Donnelly

 

[sbenno]

I've been thinking as I read this thread, long term injuries have been a pretty dark cloud, but there has been a silver lining, and that's that we have been able to test the quality of our rookies. We probably wouldn't have seen the players we have in Jaensch and Henderson (even Schmidt) if we hadn't had those LTI's.

Judging what I've seen, our rookie picks have been pretty good (seeing they're essentially a punt on someone who might or might not work out, and who wasn't good enough for the Draft proper), and leave us in good stead for the draft, considering we know what we're getting, rather than taking a punt on a draft pick.

 

[Vader]

I wouldn't be suprised if we held onto Donnelly

Why??

He's had 2 years and hasn't looked like getting out of the magoos. There are no indications that he'll ever become an AFL footballer.

 

[Riggy1]

Why??

He's had 2 years and hasn't looked like getting out of the magoos. There are no indications that he'll ever become an AFL footballer.

• He has improved considerably more than last year. Last year he'd be lucky to get 1 touch per quater, now he's getting a few here and there, not good enough for League but he's improving
• We have spent alot of money and time in him so we could at least show him some extra faith with the improvement he's had
• With alot of retirments spots will open up in the senior list, some will be taken by other rookies. Donnelly is probably better than some of the kids we'd pick up (there would be say 100 in the National draft, 20 in the pre-season draft, then comes the rookie draft, would the 130th-170th best kid in the nation that year be better than Donnelly?)
• Jarrhan Jacky rule

 

[KUNG FU]

I gotta stop reading these threads. Not got for my blood pressure.

More delusion and fantasy than a Tim Burton film.

 

[Vader]

• He has improved considerably more than last year. Last year he'd be lucky to get 1 touch per quater, now he's getting a few here and there, not good enough for League but he's improving
• We have spent alot of money and time in him so we could at least show him some extra faith with the improvement he's had
• With alot of retirments spots will open up in the senior list, some will be taken by other rookies. Donnelly is probably better than some of the kids we'd pick up (there would be say 100 in the National draft, 20 in the pre-season draft, then comes the rookie draft, would the 130th-170th best kid in the nation that year be better than Donnelly?)
• Jarrhan Jacky rule

• And if he keeps on improving at this rate, he'll break into Centrals' league side at the age of 25 and the AFL side at the age of 40.
• Sunk costs are not a valid reason for continuing to waste money on a failed experiment.
• There will probably be about 100 players selected across the ND and PSD combined (the PSD is mostly recycled players anyway).
• Yes, the 170th ranked kid this year will probably have a greater probability of playing AFL football than Donnelly.
• Jarrhan Jacky rule - is that the same as the Ken McGregor rule (giving a player a 2-year contract when it's obvious to all and sundry that they'll be gone in 12 months)?

The chances of Donnelly getting a contract renewal are zip, zero, zilch, nada, nix, nil, buckleys, none, non-existent.

 

[craig crowing]

• He has improved considerably more than last year. Last year he'd be lucky to get 1 touch per quater, now he's getting a few here and there, not good enough for League but he's improving
• We have spent alot of money and time in him so we could at least show him some extra faith with the improvement he's had
• With alot of retirments spots will open up in the senior list, some will be taken by other rookies. Donnelly is probably better than some of the kids we'd pick up (there would be say 100 in the National draft, 20 in the pre-season draft, then comes the rookie draft, would the 130th-170th best kid in the nation that year be better than Donnelly?)
• Jarrhan Jacky rule

Unless he has the same photos Jacky has Donnnelly remaining on our rookie list is not even remotely possible .
Especially when look at quality of 2010 rookies .
I think Riggy just needs to say something different now and again
Even Jacky wont be saved even with a contract.

 

[CrowHop]

I wouldn't be suprised if we held onto Donnelly

My guess is everyone would be surprised except you.

 

[CrowHop]

Senior Players
Burton - retired (already announced)
Edwards - retired (already gone)
Goodwin - retired (already announced)
McLeod - retired
Hentschel - retired
Stevens - delisted (we live in hope)
Jacky - delisted

Doughty - upgraded to veteran list

Rookie Listed Players
Jaensch - upgraded to senior list
Schmidt - upgraded to senior list (but probably not a long term proposition)
Henderson - upgraded to senior list
Riley - retained on rookie list
Wright - retained on rookie list
Thompson - retained on rookie list
Donnelly - delisted

With 3 rookie promotions and only 1 veteran upgrade, these changes would leaves us with just 3 "live" selections in the ND. My guess is that we might create a couple more vacancies by trading away some players (Vince, McKernan, Griffin & Bock appear the most likely candidates - not necessarily in that order). We would also have 4 selections in the RD - possibly plus Martyn (if he's eligible for drafting this year).

Anyone suggesting that Young will be delisted has rocks in their head. Traded, maybe, but delisted? No chance.

Good post. This looks about right I think. Two points I'll add :-

• Stevens has been ok at times, so may be retained for depth.
• Also Bob Moran may be moved on if it's decided Griffin is kept on the list. That'd leave us with Maric, Griffin, Tippett, McKernan and Sellar as ruck options, so he may be expendable.

As someone else mentioned, I'd also be ok with Schmidt remaining on the rookie list if we wanted another live pick in the ND. That 'extra' pick would probably equate to pick 80+ in the draft and consequently be pretty speculative ....

Just a thought, but does anyone see Sellar as being a possible delistee? This is now his 4th season on the list and he has yet to cement a position in the team. He was looking good early in the season, before getting injured - but his form in the SANFL hasn't been anywhere near good enough to justify senior selection since returning from injury.

Nah, he's a good size unit and played some pretty good footy for us in the ruck late last season. For me he offers versatility as a KPP and a second ruck. He's a keeper for at least another year.

 

[Vader]

I hadn't contemplated the possibility that Moran might be the one chopped, rather than Sellar. In retrospect, you (and others who made the same suggestion) may well be correct. His delisting certainly wouldn't surprise, or upset, too many.

 

[thebirdman 24]

• He has improved considerably more than last year. Last year he'd be lucky to get 1 touch per quater, now he's getting a few here and there, not good enough for League but he's improving
• We have spent alot of money and time in him so we could at least show him some extra faith with the improvement he's had
• With alot of retirments spots will open up in the senior list, some will be taken by other rookies. Donnelly is probably better than some of the kids we'd pick up (there would be say 100 in the National draft, 20 in the pre-season draft, then comes the rookie draft, would the 130th-170th best kid in the nation that year be better than Donnelly?)
• Jarrhan Jacky rule

Jaensch was around 150th taken in the draft he's looking the goods, i'd look to the local leagues and find some more mature age players with good skills.

 

[CrowHop]

Jaensch was around 150th taken in the draft he's looking the goods, i'd look to the local leagues and find some more mature age players with good skills.

No doubt this strategy will be used by a number of clubs, especially late in the draft.

A few teams have proven the strategy can work and also with the Gold Coast concessions, a lot of the better teenagers would have been gone by the time clubs start picking with their 3rd and 4th round picks.

 

[KUNG FU]

Jaensch was around 150th taken in the draft he's looking the goods, i'd look to the local leagues and find some more mature age players with good skills.

GC have 10 pre-National Draft selections from players who have previously been on an AFL list or have nominated for the draft before. That would take many of these players out of the picture. The AFL teams finally cottoned on to this angle and started to have some success with it just before it was taken from them for a couple years.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I wouldn't be suprised if we held onto Donnelly

Troll own board =











But some laughs too, so keep it up.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

TLF8, looking to next year, who would be your 1st choice swingman? IMO the players capable of this are Davis, Sellar, Stevens, McKernen and Talia (although I dont like him up forward).

McKernen to make up big ground next year imo.

I am hopeful you are right re McKernan. I certainly haven't given up hope he will be a very useful AFL player. Is still raw, 2011 should see a quantum leap with him establishing himself in 2012.

For next year, it's Davis or Sellar. It's fair to say Davis is the better player, and i agree re forward set-up, so that leaves a KPD position/3rd tall defender if the opposition set-up tall/swingman. My thoughts, and i am in the minority, are that we will only get decent trades with quality bait and i think this year is the last year that Bock and Rutten have currency and, for the right price, i would trade one of them. That leaves space for both Davis and Sellar in the 22, with McKernan, Young, Talia in reserve. Would it be a risk...sure it would, but that's the nature of high level trades. I reckon we have the talent in the squad to make a net gain come 2012

 

[thebirdman 24]

GC have 10 pre-National Draft selections from players who have previously been on an AFL list or have nominated for the draft before. That would take many of these players out of the picture. The AFL teams finally cottoned on to this angle and started to have some success with it just before it was taken from them for a couple years.

Jesus how many benefits in the draft do they need. They are going to be a powerhouse me thinks. I'm sure we could find another Jaensch/Barlow/Anthony/Dalziell but we might have to use a much higher pick.

 

[KUNG FU]

Jesus how many benefits in the draft do they need. They are going to be a powerhouse me thinks. I'm sure we could find another Jaensch/Barlow/Anthony/Dalziell but we might have to use a much higher pick.

I think its actually one of the better concessions for the GC - it makes sure they will be competitive from the get go and fills up those gaps in the side with hardened bodies, rather than dropping too many skinny kids in at once. The extent of their first round picks is absurd, especially in addition to the 12 under-agers they picked up last year many of whom would have been first rounders this year. But fortunately for the rest of the comp, the gloss has come off the first round crop a bit during the Champs. Nonetheless, the first 3 picks should be absolute guns.

 

[Pariah]

Gone from 2010
Simon Goodwin - retired
Tyson Edwards - retired
Brett Burton - retired
Andrew McLeod - set to retire
Trent Hentschel - retire/delist

Trade bait
Ben Rutten - possible suitors:GC17, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn
Brent Reilly - possible suitors: GC17
Scott Thompson - possible suitors: GC17, Melbourne,
Brad Moran - possible suitors: GC17

Delist
Scott Stevens - Depends on what happens trade wise.
Jarrhan Jacky - Jaensch to take his place in the team.
Brian Donnelly

Veterans list
Michael Doughty

Rookies
Matthew Jaensch - Upgrade, takes Jacky's spot(more versatile).
Ricky Henderson - Upgrade, takes Hentchel's spot.
Matthew Wright - Retain on rookie list.
Aidan Riley - Retain on rookie list.
Chris Schmidt - Retain on rookie list.
Luke Thompson - Retain on rookie list.

Captain
Nathan Van Berlo

Keep
Rory Sloane
Patrick Dangerfield
Kurt Tippett
Myke Cook
Taylor Walker
Daniel Talia
David Mackay
Bernie Vince
Ivan Maric
Andy Otten
Graham Johncock
Chris Knights
Richard Douglas
Jack Gunston
James Craig
James Sellar
Jared Petrenko
Sam Shaw
Will Young
Brodie Martin
Shaun McKernan
Tony Armstrong
Jason Porplyzia
Nathan Bock - open to trade possiblities
Phil Davis