Crows squad circa 2011

[johnnypanther]

Just as a matter of interest, why do you place Shaw as a possible trade?

I think that we should be trying to gain a top midfielder this year via the trade and in order to do so we will have to offer something good - IMO Bock is the obvious candidate. We can cover him through Davis & others whereas another top midfielder is our most pressing need.
End of this year is probably the last chance to get a decent trade for Bock.

 

[lunacy]

FB Johncock Rutten Henderson
HB Otten Bock Armstrong
C Mackay Thompson Martin
HF Gunston Walker Knights
FF Jaesnch Tippett Porps
1R Maric Vince Dangerfield
Int (from); Griffin, Van Berlo, Davis, Douglas, Sloane,
Petrenko, Symes.

The rest:
Reilly, Cook, Doughty, Symes, Stevens,
Sellar, Shaw, Mckernen, Schmidt, Young,
Moran, Talia, Craig.

Delist/retire:
Edwards
Goodwin
Burton
Mcleod
Henstchel
Jacky
Donnelly

Rookie upgrades:
Jaensch
Henderson
Schmidt

The Schmidt upgrade is purely for depth given our very young/inexperienced side. I'd give him a one year contract. He cant be retained on the rookie list - his 2 years is up).

Very young but capable forward line. Hopefully add a dynamic small forward to the mix through the draft. Davis will spend sometime up there being the swing man. Most likely when the 3 talls need a rest on the bench (Walker, Tippett, Gunston). He'll spend the rest of his time in defense and interchange.

Danger to play 60% of his game time in midfield 40% up forward swapping with Porps who will play 40% midfield 60% forward. Nothing will be lost in midfield or forward when these 2 swap because both are equally good in both roles.

Otten, Armstrong, Mackay and Martin to spend some time behind the ball initiating a lot of run from the half back line. Four line breaking attacking players . Hopefully Bock joins in plus Johncock and the big move Henderson both contributing a lot of pace to the defense. Suddenly Rutten is the only plodder in defense but has other strengths. Petrenko can play quick running small defender as well if chosen in 22.

Henderson and Gunston can swap forward and back if things arent quite working at either end.

Midfield rotations include (from team of 25) Otten, VB, thompson, Danger, Vince, Symes, Douglas, Sloane, Porps, Knights.

Certainly need to nail our draft picks this year. Similar position to when we were heading into the 2007 draft. Thankfully Rendell nailed that draft.

 

[crowman86]

Gone from 2010
Trade bait
Ben Rutten - possible suitors:GC17, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn
Brent Reilly - possible suitors: GC17
Scott Thompson - possible suitors: GC17, Melbourne,

We cannot afford to lose those 3 mature bodies, all have been peforming ok this year. I dont understand how people think Truck and Tommo are replaceable next year. Maybe in 2-3 years time, but next year? No way!

 

[Henesey]

We all know Jacky signed a two year contract last year and going by current form its hard to make a case for why he should be retained on our senior list. I mean lets face it by your 3rd year you should be out of the SANFL reserves.

Now we all remember John Meesen the number 8 draft pick who got worse with age. When we traded him to Melbourne he signed a 3 year contract and was delisted in the second year and signed on as a mature aged rookie in the 2009 rookie draft.

Someone should be able to fill me in here, did Meesen complete the last year of his contract on the rookie list or did they pay out his current contract and give him a new rookie contract? If the first is true then from what we have seen this year of Jacky we should do the same.

 

[Vader]

Someone should be able to fill me in here, did Meesen complete the last year of his contract on the rookie list or did they pay out his current contract and give him a new rookie contract? If the first is true then from what we have seen this year of Jacky we should do the same.

Meesen is still on Melbourne's rookie list.

FB Johncock Rutten Henderson
HB Otten Bock Armstrong
C Mackay Thompson Martin
HF Gunston Walker Knights
FF Jaesnch Tippett Porps
1R Maric Vince Dangerfield
Int (from); Griffin, Van Berlo, Davis, Douglas, Sloane,
Petrenko, Symes.

The rest:
Reilly, Cook, Doughty, Symes, Stevens,
Sellar, Shaw, Mckernen, Schmidt, Young,
Moran, Talia, Craig.

Armstrong, Gunston and Martin ahead of Reilly, Doughty and Symes. Not sure what you're smoking, but it must be some fairly strong stuff.

 

[CrowHop]

The Schmidt upgrade is purely for depth given our very young/inexperienced side. I'd give him a one year contract. He cant be retained on the rookie list - his 2 years is up).

I didnt think so ?

 

[Vader]

The Schmidt upgrade is purely for depth given our very young/inexperienced side. I'd give him a one year contract. He cant be retained on the rookie list - his 2 years is up).

He can be retained on the rookie list for a 3rd year, but we have to delist him and let him go through the ND and PSD first. If nobody selects him in either draft, then he goes straight back onto our rookie list without having to go through the RD again.

 

[Henesey]

Meesen is still on Melbourne's rookie list.

Im aware of that but when he was delisted last year and re-picked in the rookie drafthe still had a year on his contract similarly to Jacky.

Did he complete his 3rd year (of the contract) on the rookie list or did they pay out his last year when they delisted him and gave him a new one when they placed him on the rookie list.

 

[Vader]

Im aware of that but when he was delisted last year and re-picked in the rookie drafthe still had a year on his contract similarly to Jacky.

Did he complete his 3rd year (of the contract) on the rookie list or did they pay out his last year when they delisted him and gave him a new one when they placed him on the rookie list.

We traded him at the end of 2007.

He spent 2008 & 2009 on their senior list. At the end of 2009, they delisted him, before selecting him again in the Rookie Draft. Their primary reason for doing so was salary cap related - by putting him on the rookie list they were able to exclude the 3rd year of his contract from the salary cap, whereas they would have had to include it within their 2009 cap if they had just delisted him outright.

He will remain on their rookie list until the end of 2010 (effectively the 3rd and final year of his contract). I expect that he will be delisted at the end of the season, bringing his AFL career to an end.

 

[Henesey]

We traded him at the end of 2007.

He spent 2008 & 2009 on their senior list. At the end of 2009, they delisted him, before selecting him again in the Rookie Draft. Their primary reason for doing so was salary cap related - by putting him on the rookie list they were able to exclude the 3rd year of his contract from the salary cap, whereas they would have had to include it within their 2009 cap if they had just delisted him outright.

He will remain on their rookie list until the end of 2010 (effectively the 3rd and final year of his contract). I expect that he will be delisted at the end of the season, bringing his AFL career to an end.

I understood the situation just probably didn't explain it very well. I just thought it would be worth doing the same with Jacky as Melbourne did with Meesen. It would allow us to have an extra spot on the list and not have his salary go towards the cap. If the crows still think there is potential there and is worth keeping we could give him the next two years on the rookie list.

This would then allow us to have an extra national draft pick and one less rookie draft pick.

 

[Vader]

I understood the situation just probably didn't explain it very well. I just thought it would be worth doing the same with Jacky as Melbourne did with Meesen. It would allow us to have an extra spot on the list and not have his salary go towards the cap. If the crows still think there is potential there and is worth keeping we could give him the next two years on the rookie list.

This would then allow us to have an extra national draft pick and one less rookie draft pick.

Gotcha.. now I understand where you're coming from.

I suppose it's a possibility that they could re-draft him in the rookie draft (assuming that his delisting is a foregone conclusion). We don't have to pay out his full contract if he gets drafted - only the gap between his new contract and his existing contract. The big question is why would we bother? I don't think we have salary cap issues, so what do we have to gain?

 

[Henesey]

Gotcha.. now I understand where you're coming from.

I suppose it's a possibility that they could re-draft him in the rookie draft (assuming that his delisting is a foregone conclusion). We don't have to pay out his full contract if he gets drafted - only the gap between his new contract and his existing contract. The big question is why would we bother? I don't think we have salary cap issues, so what do we have to gain?

An extra spot on the list. That could have meant last year we could have grabbed Coad or one of the other rookie listed players that went early.

Ive read often on here that Rendall always has a few players towards the end of the draft he rates but get snapped up in the rookie draft before our pick draft ie Casey Sibosado and Jordan Mckenzie in the 2008 draft

 

[Vader]

An extra spot on the list. That could have meant last year we could have grabbed Coad or one of the other rookie listed players that went early.

Ive read often on here that Rendall always has a few players towards the end of the draft he rates but get snapped up in the rookie draft before our pick draft ie Casey Sibosado and Jordan Mckenzie in the 2008 draft

I'd say there's a 99% chance he'll be gone from the senior list, whether we choose to re-draft him as a rookie or not. By following the Meesen precedent we deprive ourselves of a rookie position, we don't gain an extra senior list position.

If we'd had another selection in the 2009 ND we would have taken Luke Thompson. We got him in the rookie draft anyway.

In 2008, it (reportedly) would have been Sibosado. Freo grabbed him in the rookie draft and he's still on their rookie list, in a year where 4 of their rookies have been upgraded and played senior football. In retrospect, we were probably lucky not to waste a draft selection on him.

 

[turbo182]

Just a thought for next years list.

I think Mcleod will play on. In fact I hope he does. Proved he can still contribute greatly to the teams performance.

Seems that everyone's taking his book release as gospel that he's retiring.

IMO though, no information to suggest otherwise.

 

[Vader]

Just a thought for next years list.

I think Mcleod will play on. In fact I hope he does. Proved he can still contribute greatly to the teams performance.

Seems that everyone's taking his book release as gospel that he's retiring.

IMO though, no information to suggest otherwise.

Highly unlikely. His latest mid-season knee injury is the final nail in the coffin. It's a question of when, not if, he announces his retirement.

He has definitely performed well in 2010, prior to injury. 2011 would be one year too long - and we don't want him to go out the same way that Smart & Edwards did.

 

[cmndstab]

I haven't finished reading this whole thread yet so my opinion will almost certainly be a repeat of someone else's, but here's what I see happening:


Gone:
Brett Burton
Tyson Edwards
Simon Goodwin
Trent Hentschel
Andrew McLeod
Jahhran Jacky
Brian Donnelly

Upgraded:
Matthew Jaensch
Ricky Henderson



I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the club upgrade one of Thomspon, Wright or Riley, depending on which one makes the biggest impact between now and the end of the season. However, all three can be retained for next season. For now I'll assume that all three are retained on the rookie list. The only player who's future would be up in the air at this stage then would be Schmidt, who I'll guess would be re-rookied unless someone poaches him first.


This leaves us with four picks in the national draft, and three picks in the rookie draft (well, four but we use one to re-rookie Schmidt).

Assuming we finish 13th (that's my guess), this will see us receive picks 10, 30, 47 and 64 in the national draft. Considering last year we were able to pick all the way to pick 61 (and by all reports would have taken Thompson if Craig wasn't there, so in theory we were able to pick all the way to the rookie draft) in what was considered a much weaker pool of talent, I'm assuming the Crows want to pick through to selection 64. If they didn't want to however, they could upgrade on of Thompson, Wright or Riley. My early pick if this went ahead would be Wright.


My starting line-up for round 1 next year then would be:


B Davis Rutten Doughty
HB Johncock Bock Van Berlo (C)
C Reilly Thompson Mackay
HF Jaensch Knights Dangerfield
F Walker Tippett Porplyzia
RR Maric Vince Douglas
INT Griffin Henderson Sloane Stevens
EMG Sellar Otten Armstrong

Not playing: Moran, Cook, Petrenko, Talia, Symes, Gunston, Craig, Shaw, McKernan, Young, Martin, four ND picks.
Rookies: L. Thompson, Riley, Schmidt, Wright, three RD picks.

Hard to know what will happen with Cook, Petrenko, Symes, Gunston, Martin, Armstong and Otten, who I feel are all battling for two positions on the emergency list. Of course, if Otten is able to show he's ready to go, he's straight back in to the side (probably at the expense of either Davis or Sloane, depending on whether they expect him to play as a defender or a midfielder primarily) but I'm assuming he'll take a few rounds before they'll put him back. How well he goes in the NAB Cup will determine a lot of this. Martin is hard to tell as well, it will depend if he plays AFL this year and how well he goes.

Really want to put Armstrong into the 22 but I just don't know who he kicks out. Of course, there are bound to be some injuries to let people in to the squad.

Of course, it could be any of Moran, Sellar, McKernan or even Craig in the ruck emergency spot. I've gone with Sellar for now but I wouldn't be surprised to see it Moran take it depending on how his recovery goes this preseason.

Either way, it's a relatively strong looking squad with some actual depth underneath it, which is nice to see. I expected to have less trouble picking the side

 

[Vader]

Gone:
Brett Burton
Tyson Edwards
Simon Goodwin
Trent Hentschel
Andrew McLeod
Jahhran Jacky
Brian Donnelly

Upgraded:
Matthew Jaensch
Ricky Henderson

This leaves us with four picks in the national draft, and three picks in the rookie draft (well, four but we use one to re-rookie Schmidt).

Actually, that would leave us with just 2 selections in the ND. Goodwin and McLeod are on the veterans list, so we their replacements would have to come via the RD (not the ND), unless someone else were elevated to the veterans list to replace them. Doughty is the only eligible candidate.

Adding Doughty's elevation to the veterans list would bring our draft selections to 3.

 

[cmndstab]

Actually, that would leave us with just 2 selections in the ND. Goodwin and McLeod are on the veterans list, so we their replacements would have to come via the RD (not the ND), unless someone else were elevated to the veterans list to replace them. Doughty is the only eligible candidate.

Adding Doughty's elevation to the veterans list would bring our draft selections to 3.

I should know better than to argue with you But.. are you sure? I was under the impression every team had a senior squad of 40 players.

How far off is Stevens from being eligible? Is it a number of games played thing or just an age thing?


Edit: Ahh, just checked it. You're right, of course. And the restrictions are being 30 and having spent ten years on the main list. Oh well

If I need to find another delisting, it would probably come from one of Cook, McKernan, Young or Symes, though I don't feel any deserve to be delisted. Alternatively, the club may feel that the game has gone past Stevens, though I don't think this will be the case either. If a player particularly wants to go somewhere else we may trade for a pick I guess. By all rumours there are at least a couple of players looking at leaving. The other alternative is to play the Meesen game as suggested a little while earlier by Henesey and move one of our players onto the rookie list - but it's hard to that happening with any of the above mentioned players. Cook and McKernan both appear to have senior list interest elsewhere that they'd probably take if offered the alternative of being on our rookie list. Stevens would probably rather retire than fight his way off the rookie list. Symes to the rookie list doesn't seem right either. If the club has no immediate plans to play Young, I guess he would move down there, though it would seem a bit of a slap in the face. None of our first yearers could be move there because they have two year contracts, right? Don't really like this option very much.

By moving Doughty to the veteran's list, and trading one player for a draft pick in addition to my other changes above, we'd be left with four selections in the ND, and four selections in the rookie draft after re-rookieing Schmidt. That sounds pretty good.

 

[Vader]

I should know better than to argue with you But.. are you sure? I was under the impression every team had a senior squad of 40 players.

How far off is Stevens from being eligible? Is it a number of games played thing or just an age thing?

Senior list of 38 plus 2 who can be either outside veterans or "nominated" rookies.

Stevens won't be eligible until 2014, due to starting his career with Sydney (he arrived during trade week at the end of 2003).

There are currently 2 criteria for veteran listing - the player must turn 30 during the year of their listing (or before) and they must have achieved 10 years service with the club. There is no criteria relating to the number of games played.

 

[Huntercrow]

My starting line-up for round 1 next year then would be:


B Davis Rutten Doughty
HB Johncock Bock Van Berlo (C)
C Reilly Thompson Mackay
HF Jaensch Knights Dangerfield
F Walker Tippett Porplyzia
RR Maric Vince Douglas
INT Griffin Henderson Sloane Stevens
EMG Sellar Otten Armstrong

Not playing: Moran, Cook, Petrenko, Talia, Symes, Gunston, Craig, Shaw, McKernan, Young, Martin, four ND picks.
Rookies: L. Thompson, Riley, Schmidt, Wright, three RD picks.

Your round 1 team is only 3 players different (Porps ,Knighta and Bock) from last Saturdays game.

They are big "ins" assuming they are all fit and ready to go but they replace the Captain, Symes and Armstrong who all had Very good games.
Does this mean that the current 22 is close to how we will look next season?

 

[thebirdman 24]

B Davis Rutten Doughty
HB Johncock Bock Van Berlo (C)
C Reilly Thompson Mackay
HF Jaensch Knights Dangerfield
F Walker Tippett Porplyzia
RR Maric Vince Douglas
INT Griffin Henderson Sloane Stevens
EMG Sellar Otten Armstrong

B: Davis Rutten Johncock
HB: Armstrong Bock Mcleod
C: Otten Thompson Mackay
HF:Jaensch Henderson Knights
FF: Walker Tippett Porplyzia
IR: Maric Vince Dangerfield
INT Mckernan/Sellar Sloane Douglas Gunston

next in for a game Symes/Reilly

Gone at end of this year: Doughty, Goodwin, Burton, Edwards, Hentschel, Cook (trade), Stevens, Griffin (trade).

Doughty i heard a while ago was playing in pain or something to that effect, plus i think he knows his time is running out has had a few ok games this year but many bad ones. Hentschel got injured in his 5th (?) comeback from that same injury and is just too injury prone. Not sure if the trades will transpire, we will most likely hang onto Griffin incase Maric gets injured. Stevens is not really needed once we get Bock fit and contracted.

We got a very solid backhalf with 3 talls, and Talia, Thompson and Young waiting in the wings. Beyond that we got no KPD so we might hang onto Stevens much to my frustration. Surprisingly, i'm starting to see why we went so tall in the last couple of drafts. Anyway, plenty of run out of that back line with Bock, Armstrong, Mcleod and Johncock.

The middle we have some solid players in Douglas, Sloane, Armstrong, Otten, but only 3 real a graders at this stage in Vince, Thompson and Dangerfield (next year). We need to get our hands on some young quality skilled outside players to compliment our inside midfielders.

Up forward looks great in theory, but we have an injury prone Knights who misses a few each year, Porplyzia who is rarely fit, and i'm not sure whats happening with Tippetts knee's but i think there ok at the moment.

I don't think we will persist with the 2 main rucks who can't do much else, Griffin cant hold a mark very well up forward, and Maric is good hitting it to advantage and he can kick a goal so i would go with him out of the two. Then we must have a ruck/KP player who can do something else besides ruck if needed. Mckernan (if he gets his shit together) will hopefully be our Mitch Clarke and go up forward with effect, and relieve Maric in the ruck 30-40% of the time.

Overall we have a very good young team coming up with Mcleod providing the finishing touches like Aker does for Bulldogs. It was definetly a bad decision to keep all 4 oldies + Doughty, we should of phased out a couple last year so that we don't lose all 4 at once like we are going to do. We really need to draft some midfielders and probably another athletic 200cm+ ruckman because our midfield is ok, but lacks class.

 

[cmndstab]

Your round 1 team is only 3 players different (Porps ,Knighta and Bock) from last Saturdays game.

They are big "ins" assuming they are all fit and ready to go but they replace the Captain, Symes and Armstrong who all had Very good games.
Does this mean that the current 22 is close to how we will look next season?

The list I gave was what I think will happen, as opposed to what I would like to happen. The Crows tend to have a fairly timid approach to changing the line-up and it wouldn't surprise me if they stacked our team full of the remaining senior players at the start of next season.

I'd put in Armstrong over Doughty, for example, but I'm not convinced the Crows would. Wouldn't mind seeing Gunston in over Stevens as well but I doubt it would happen. Still, in theory they have the NAB Cup to impress enough to be selected.

 

[jackster83]

Actually, that would leave us with just 2 selections in the ND. Goodwin and McLeod are on the veterans list, so we their replacements would have to come via the RD (not the ND), unless someone else were elevated to the veterans list to replace them. Doughty is the only eligible candidate.

Adding Doughty's elevation to the veterans list would bring our draft selections to 3.

It's probably fair to expect that we will lose an uncontracted player to the GC as well.

When do they have to announce the players they've signed? Is is before trade week?

 

[Vader]

It's probably fair to expect that we will lose an uncontracted player to the GC as well.

When do they have to announce the players they've signed? Is is before trade week?

Trade week runs from Mon Oct 4th to Mon Oct 11th (8 days - not Mon-Fri like previous years).

Gold Coast are allowed to sign uncontracted players up to and including Thurs Oct 7th. Their deadline falls smack bang in the middle of trade week.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Not sure why everyone has nominated Van Berlo for captain. VB's football has gone nowhere in the past 2 years. At one stage he looked like he was going to be an absolute gun but really hasnt devloped at all. He has lingering injury issues and seems like one of those players that just wont get on the park often enough to be captain. To be honest his is one of the names I would consider for my trade list at the end of the year.

As for who I think should be captain, hmmm. Thompson, McKay, Rutten or maybe even Dangerield.