Darren Jolly Trade Thread

[Primetime Pricey]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

I dont get it, doesnt Jolly turn 28 or something next year? Why would we waste anything more than pick 14 on a bloke that no one can get more than a max of 4 years out of, when we could use the draft pick and get an up and coming gun player for 12-14 years?? and thats just the pick 14 let alone the extra draft pick/good young player that Sydney is demanding.

The likelyhood of either Jolly or the young draftee getting injured is in fact more likely with the ageing Jolly.

Seriously I'd be pissed at mick malthouse and his short term selfish greed if he was the one pushing for us to pass up having a young gun footballer for 12-14 years over someone of whom we could use for a max of 4 years.

There are no guarantees that the player you get at pick 14 is going to be any good. Richard Cole was a 1st rd pick and was useless. At least with Jolly you know your getting one of the best ruckman in the comp and getting him in his prime.
Has Jolly had a history while at Sydney with injury? no. We selected Tom Davidson with a early pick sometime ago and he couldnt get on the field. There are no guarantees.
Why is its greed to trade a pick for something good? Collingwood have been without success close to 20 years now. Sorry but he has every right to have a crack at the flag before he hands it over to Bucks

 

[Markfs]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

The people who are saying that the Swans could deal direct with Carlton and not wait on our No. 14 for Fev......have got a good point..

The only problem with that scenario is whether Jolly will turn around and say, I dont want to go to Carlton, I prefer to stay here for the next two years.

If that happens, then we can use the 14 to get Ball and forget about Fev and Jolly, as someone has already pointed out..

The thing is that the Swans think that they can get more out of the Magpies for Jolly than Carlton. Carlton is likely to say we dont really need Jolly...

I dont think we'll give in and give them a player and pick for Jolly, but they might swap later draft picks...it's an interesting scenario

 

[Kirby]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

Geez, I'd love to play poker with a lot of you guys with the way you panic and fall for bluffs.

The Jolly deal will happen and we will stick to pick 14 only. Don't get your knickers in a knot!

 

[MushroomRocket]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

28 is hardly old for a ruckman. i just hate it sometimes how the afl draft has been plagued by "youth culture".

28 is the ABSOLUTE PEAK for any player, let alone ruckman who play much better at that age.

he is 27 now, which means 28, 29 and 30 are your flag window years. we did it with ball when he was 32 along with jolly, which means that if wood is any good you will have 4 years from a top ruckman who played this well.

16 goals
31 hitouts per game
12 disposals per game
4.2 marks

and who has never ever been injured for god knows how long. if sydney were trying to lure a player like this we would give an arm and a leg. he is also contracted, which means if anyone was fair it would take 2 first round picks.

if you guys get him for 14 alone it will be the trade of the century(which you will realise next year).

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

means if anyone was fair it would take 2 first round picks.

if you guys get him for 14 alone it will be the trade of the century(which you will realise next year).

2 1st rounders? lol. Look he is a excellent player and worth 1 1st rounder and a player but not 2 1st round picks

 

[DaisysHair]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

There are no guarantees that the player you get at pick 14 is going to be any good. Richard Cole was a 1st rd pick and was useless. At least with Jolly you know your getting one of the best ruckman in the comp and getting him in his prime.
Has Jolly had a history while at Sydney with injury? no. We selected Tom Davidson with a early pick sometime ago and he couldnt get on the field. There are no guarantees.
Why is its greed to trade a pick for something good? Collingwood have been without success close to 20 years now. Sorry but he has every right to have a crack at the flag before he hands it over to Bucks

Spot on here. We've been loading up on picks since the end of 2003, Mick has now built the list, time for the cherry on the cake to have a full on crack at the flag.

 

[frantelle]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

if sydney were trying to lure a player like this we would give an arm and a leg. he is also contracted, which means if anyone was fair it would take 2 first round picks.

if you guys get him for 14 alone it will be the trade of the century(which you will realise next year).

Chris Judd wasn't worth 2 first round picks

 

[Ron]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

Hawthorn is going to beat us to Jolly the way we are going. The Burgoyne deal doesn't look like going anywhere. Soon enough the Hawks will turn their attention elsewhere and Jolly will be the one.

They'll straight up offer pick 9 and the Swans will take it. If the Hawks can convince Jolly to join them (shouldn't be too hard) he will go.

We really need to get this finished soon, but given our history i doubt we will.

 

[HFF]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

MR, pick 14 is more than fair.

You guys are basically going to on-trade that for Fev.

Basically out Jolly, in Fev.

Fev is by a far a better player than Jolly.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

lets see,

15.7 hitouts
4 goals
4.3 marks
13.2 disposals

hmm, i thought *more* is more like 5-10 disposals or 2-3 marks.

+ isnt cam wood your *primary* ruckman considering josh fraser cant jump? you collingwood fans should really drop this "jolly isnt good enough, but we are saying this to get him cheap" business.

it doesnt help in trading and i'm sure it will bite back next year when fraser lets you down again.

I must say your "stats" are doing Jolly no favours! Wood is a second string ruckman at the moment who has had very little game time.

Jolly is a good solid, dependable ruckman but is getting talked up as a superstar. He doesn't dominate games like a Cox or a Clark. He is very good in the ruck but still only average around the ground. He can kick a goal or 2 which is handy. I thought it was only us Pies fans who overated their players this much.

In the end ironically I think Cam Wood will turn out to be a very similar player.

In the end he is worth a 1st rounder but not much more. The Swans have a right to haggle for a little more mainly because he is under contract.

If they can do a deal better than #14 then good luck to them - only really Hawthorn is in that position of need and a higher pick so it really depends on the Burgoyne deal.

If it all falls through so be it - we can at least have a good shot at Luke Ball - my preference.

 

[MushroomRocket]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

I must say your "stats" are doing Jolly no favours! Wood is a second string ruckman at the moment who has had very little game time.

Jolly is a good solid, dependable ruckman but is getting talked up as a superstar. He doesn't dominate games like a Cox or a Clark. He is very good in the ruck but still only average around the ground. He can kick a goal or 2 which is handy. I thought it was only us Pies fans who overated their players this much.

In the end ironically I think Cam Wood will turn out to be a very similar player.

In the end he is worth a 1st rounder but not much more. The Swans have a right to haggle for a little more mainly because he is under contract.

If they can do a deal better than #14 then good luck to them - only really Hawthorn is in that position of need and a higher pick so it really depends on the Burgoyne deal.

If it all falls through so be it - we can at least have a good shot at Luke Ball - my preference.

This about a guy who broke the record for most hitouts ever in a game not once, but twice in one season.

good luck in the next pf with wood, atleast the hawks know his value since they saw how he monstered them last year in both games (breaking the record the first time)

 

[THATSGOLD]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

sydney didnt say pick 14 wasnt enough collingwood did! sydney want pick 14 its our officials that have said the price is to high.. so here we are NO TRADE.

 

[4#Didak#4]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

This about a guy who broke the record for most hitouts ever in a game not once, but twice in one season.

good luck in the next pf with wood, atleast the hawks know his value since they saw how he monstered them last year in both games (breaking the record the first time)

Sorry for being underwhelmed at breaking the hitout record against sunstandard ruck opposition.

Hitouts is a poor stat by itself - its effective hitouts that matter. Sandilands is the most dominant in this regard, but it does not make him a match winner. They need to combine effective hitouts with around the ground effectiveness.

Take the last game we played the Swans, Jolly dominated the hitouts but gave their midfield no great advantage. Fraser & Wood both spanked him around the ground managing 30 possessions & 3 goals between them - Jolly had 5 kicks, 2 marks 8 handballs. Simply not competitive around the ground in that game.

People forget that the ruckman needs to do more than get the hitout and stand there, Fraser may not win in the ruck but his workrate around the ground is exceptional.

 

[Markfs]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

To the South Melbourne supporters posting about how many hit outs Jolly has got in the ruck..... you seem to forget that the Swans game-plan is to have as many stoppages as possible..

So that's why Jolly gets so many hitouts....

 

[Punchy Demons]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

The whole Fev to Brisbane for Bradshaw & Rischitelli could have an impact on the Jolly deal now, especially if the Swans had been planning to use #14 to get Fev?

 

[MushroomRocket]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

fevola to brisbane just made sydney's job much much easier, so we're basically after the pick and player now.

 

[Primetime Pricey]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

fevola to brisbane just made sydney's job much much easier, so we're basically after the pick and player now.

This also irks me . Carlton deal for 2 players so a draft pick wasnt a requirement. Surely we had 2 players we could offer.

 

[FIGJAM]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

fevola to brisbane just made sydney's job much much easier, so we're basically after the pick and player now.

Pick 14 and a player is fair. Trouble is all of BigFooty and the known internet are speculating on a whole bunch of variables that we cannot know.

Primarily, who are the nominated players that Sydney / St Kilda are asking for?

Given we don't know that, we really should chill out and have a warm cup of STFU for a while. Deals that Sydney/Collingwood/St Kilda have done recently have all been market value and been win win. If we can't nut out a win win, then we just walk away. Simple.

 

[Teak_Pies]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

Times ticking and the longer it ticks Hawks will ditch Burgoyne and go for Jolly.

 

[Teak_Pies]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

Jolly is a very good tap ruckmen and can kick goals, if we don't get Jolly we're stuck with Fraser and wood. Fraser isn't a good tap ruckmen and wood is an ok tap ruckmen.

 

[wadethompson]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

I really dont care if we get jolly or not any more its giving me the shits to see players that want to come to collingwood for once and we wont trade for them, sydney are asking to much for jolly so i think we should just leave it we should be going for a cheap ruckman such as griffin or mumford who will develop into very good rucks. One player who i really want to get to collingwood is jesse smith from north melbourne there has been reports that collingwood have tested him to see how his injurys are so maybe a deal will be done with him asap.

 

[omen_au]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

More paint drys then movement in trade week

 

[Axl the great]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

I really dont care if we get jolly or not any more its giving me the shits to see players that want to come to collingwood for once and we wont trade for them, sydney are asking to much for jolly so i think we should just leave it we should be going for a cheap ruckman such as griffin or mumford who will develop into very good rucks. One player who i really want to get to collingwood is jesse smith from north melbourne there has been reports that collingwood have tested him to see how his injurys are so maybe a deal will be done with him asap.

No Dice mate, have it on good authority that we were certain to get Smith and our Docs pulled a Stevie J verdict on him saying he is not sound enough to go for.
Hope they got this one right.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Well there is a rumour that comes from the same old source, "i know a family member of Player A and they say he is going to team B"

But Josh Fraser to Sydney for Darren Jolly, possibly could include our 3rd round pick..

But Still leaves the door open for the 3 big names, Jolly, Fevola and Ball..

Fraser and our 3rd round for Jolly

Pick 30 and Wellingham for Luke Ball

Pick 14 and Dawes for Fevola

I don't think Fevola is going to Brisbane and surely a 20 year old with alot of potential and a first round draft pick is worth more than a 31 year old Bradshaw and a B grade Midfielder in Rischitelli..

 

[Swansujelly]

Re: so Sydney say Pick 14 is not enough

I dont get it, doesnt Jolly turn 28 or something next year? Why would we waste anything more than pick 14 on a bloke that no one can get more than a max of 4 years out of, when we could use the draft pick and get an up and coming gun player for 12-14 years?? and thats just the pick 14 let alone the extra draft pick/good young player that Sydney is demanding.

The likelyhood of either Jolly or the young draftee getting injured is in fact more likely with the ageing Jolly.

Seriously I'd be pissed at mick malthouse and his short term selfish greed if he was the one pushing for us to pass up having a young gun footballer for 12-14 years over someone of whom we could use for a max of 4 years. And besides after they were the ones that obviously orchestrated the whole stunt of Hawthorn suddenly being interested in Jolly and offering pick 9 turned out to be total horse sh**. in an attempt to rush us into the deal and offer more than fair value, I reckon we can tell them to be happy pick 14 is still even on the table.

After all the whole point of trading with a club that is going to lose a player, is to make our team better. Trading away pick 14 and a good name player and getting Jolly in return, I think will leave us worse off. Geez Sydney certainly havent lost any of that special ability in knowing how to ream us with unfair trading.

Two words..Premiership Window...nuff said