Demetriou is right. ? "AFL Park" Where to Build the new stadium

[w00dy]

this will never happen, and the only possible option if it were to happen, is Princes Park.

Yes Carlton screwed clubs over when they've played there in the past, but obviously this time, the AFL wouldn't tolerate that. Carlton would have to allow the clubs playing there to post a reasonable profit.

This includes signage at the ground, so no Visy signs plastered all over the stadium. 22k is plenty for this type of stadium, the whole idea is that you can sell the stadium out, to make money... if more people want to go to the match, but can't get a ticket because it's sold out, then all the better, the match is ticketed and the clubs can charge reserved seat fees, further increasing their revenue...

 

[tandino]

Haven't been down that way in some time but is that the Dandenong Showgrounds?

That's the one.

 

[JF_Bay_22_SCG]

It had to happen. In selling Waverley Park the AFL cashed in big time. Unfortunately it also cashed in its only effective bargaining chip in negotiating deals with the MCC and the corporate world. Demetriou is right, a new stadium is the only answer. The AFL will own Docklands in 2025..but that is too long to wait. Clearly the future of the game is dependant on the strength of the all the Victorian clubs. If the Victorian clubs are financially strong then the game can be viable in Western Sydney, Gold Coast and even Tasmania. The AFL should realise its true strength and build its own stadium again !!! Where??.....The State Govt has identified Dandenong as a critical growth hub. A 50,000 seat stadium serviced by train could be built on land between Dandenong and Yarraman station adjacent to East Link. Easy rail access from Melbourne, Mornington Peninsula and Gippsland. Currently the AFL , without its own ground is behoven to the demands of the MCC and the Docklands Corporates yet without the AFL these venues would not be the quality stadiums they are nor financially viable. With little bargaining power the AFL, the Victoran clubs and the future of the game is being ripped off.....your thoughts ???

You appear ignorant of one thing. The AFL left Waverley because it was not centrally based and had little in terms of attractiveness to potential corporate partners and sponsors of 'the AFL brand' . Waverley may well have been where the people were moving to. But it is not where big business is. And this is what the AFL is looking for these days more than people at matches.

People from the outer eastern suburbs will still travel into town to watch the footy. Often they go to the footy then go out for a night in town as well. But often people from other parts of town, including people like myself reliant on public transport to get to games, often won't head out west to a place like Waverley. Without a serious train or tram link to the ground, Waverley really was never sustainable long term option.

Having said that, the AFL has sewn its oats by getting rid of suburban venues and that extra level of tribalness in search of the corporate $$. So they will have to live with it unfortunately.

JF

 

[speedpeck23]

I'm well aware of the reasons the AFL sold Waverley Park....In the AFL's defence they negotiated a contract that would see them own Docklands in 2025. Currently they have no leverage to broker a satisfactory deal with the two Melbourne stadiums and they are spending money inappropriately propping up Victorian clubs who are collared by dodgy stadium deals. The money they have would be better spent on a third stadium which complemented the MCG and Docklands and gave the AFL negotiating powers they lost when they sold Waverley.

 

[TorresIsGod]

Why build a new stadium?

If there wasn't any construction going on at Visy Park right now, you could play a game there today.

The ground has always had the best playing surface in the game and it has a 22k capacity.

Once the construction is over, deals could be negotiated, the place is still called Visy Park (so obviously the Visy Park signs would stay). I'm sure it's the best option, no need to build a new stadium.

 

[vinum coupe]

Waverley was crap. But yes, the AFL held a card when they had it.

The AFL should just go and buy a chunk of land now, sit on it, and convince the MCG / Dome that they had better come to the party or we're turning soil.

It will be sorted out.


'A mans gotta have hand'

 

[Casey Cat]

The way I see it.

Victoria Park
Positives - Public Transport, Infrastructure already in place, albeit run down. Decent capacity
Negatives - Council, Parking.

Olympic Park
Positives - Close-ish to everything. Trams, Trains, MCG, Citylink
Negatives - Capacity issues squeezed between the new stadium, the Glasshouse, the Yarra River and Swan Street.

Princes Park
Positives - As it stands, the best available at the moment. At a pinch, could host games next year.
Negatives - Everything that detracted from the place when it was an AFL venue. Would need to give better returns to the neutral clubs than it did in the 90's

E-Gate
Positives - Public Transport, Council willingness.
Negatives - Close to the Dome, High costs of construction on account of complex issues with train lines underneath.

Melbourne Showgrounds
Positives - Existing infrastructure (Rail, Parking)
Negatives - Space

Elsternwick Park
Home of the VAFA

Positives - Existing ground, close to public transport.
Negatives - Existing tenant, parking may be questionable

Junction Oval
See above

Dandenong Showgrounds
Parcel of land in an industrial area just west of Dandenong.

Positives - Next to Eastlink, and near the train station.
Negatives - Existing use as a community resource, parking might be an issue

Eastlink Corridor
There is plenty of land up and down Eastlink especially around Ferntree Gully Road or Wellington Road, and south of the Dandening Bypass right down to the bottom of Eastlink just north of Frankston.

Positives - Obviously, close to Eastlink. Closer to the growth suburbs. Plenty of parking available
Negatives - Public Transport has always been an issue around this area. Possible building restrictions on low land.

Western Port Highway, Lynbrook
A seldom mentioned bit of land in Lynbrook, south of Bayliss Road.

Positives - Plenty of parking, easy access to Cranbourne train line. Easy access to South Gippsland Freeway
Negatives - Have to fight the developers for it. Out in the sticks for most.

Casey Fields
Already established sporting facility in the outer south-east

Positives - Potential train line nearby, Parking etc. Growth suburb. Possible tie-in with future A-League side
Negatives - Out in the sticks, and that's putting it nicely.

From Left Field
Moorabbin, Monash University, Deakin Bundoora, Melbourne Wholesale Fruit Market, Latrobe Uni, Toorak Park, Port Melbourne or other VFL Grounds. Royal Park, Dandenong Police Paddocks, Epping, Altona-Werribee/Ringwood-Lilydale areas or another one you can throw up.

Excellent summation

I live in Berwick and travel to Casey Fields to watch Geelong's VFL team play.

Casey Fields is so far from civilization it isn't out in the sticks - but you can see the sticks from there - if you bring binoculars.

(And by the way - correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's sticks but rather the Styx from Greek mythology - but that's way too highbrow for this forum! )

 

[cats2rise]

Skilled Stadium anyone?

I know its our home ground, but there is a discussion on the cats board at the moment...

We play 8 or so games a year there... As you all know, its been redeveloped, its in good condition... Surely it could hold an extra few games for victorian v interstate teams, or two 'low crowd' victorian teams? The Geelong City Council owns the stadium, therefore you would get a high % of gate reciepts.

If push came to shove, and the AFL don't go ahead with the third stadium, surely SS and Optus Oval could be utilised?

 

[rdhopkins2]

I'd rather have games down at the Cattery than Princes Park if a good deal could be worked out with the council, facilities already exist etc. PP is dead as an AFL H&A venue and must not be revived.

That said though, how many supporters from Melbourne/suburbs would make the journey to Geelong (and interstate supporters). You would want either North or the Dogs I would have thought playing a few games there a year being western suburbs teams.

 

[footyman]

When the AFL takes possession of the Dome, it will be more or less the age that VFL Park was when it was being squeezed out for being out-of-date.

Spot on!!!

Already the Dome is showing signs of age. The scoreboards are no where near as clear as those at the MCG. The seats will also need to be replaced before too long, most of them are antiques. I think it was built ahead of its time architectually, but when you see the new MCG stand and what we'll see at the rectangular stadium you'll quickly feel that TD is outdated.

 

[DanA]

Skilled Stadium would be a good option for Bulldogs on low draw games. If they could draw 20K to them they could probably make a 300k profit which is a big boost on the loss they make at the Testra Dome for the same fixtures.

If the doggies could push the 4 lowest drawing games to Skilled it could be worth as much as 1m to them. It would be a bit of a pain in the arse for fans but it's less than an hour by train\car from the Western Suburbs.

 

[numchuks]

It was only a few yrs ago that North and the Dees were drawing 9k and 12k crowds to Princess Park.

I hate to hazard what these clubs would draw down at Kardinia Park which is 2 hours down the road.

I reckon they'd be lucky to pull half that to a game there.

At the end of the day is it really feasible for clubs to play games down there, with 6k crowds? Don't reckon it's worth the trouble, and the profit gained would be negligible.

there needs to be abetter long term soloution.

 

[snomeD]

1. Any new AFL stadium will be built in the western suburbs.

2. The AFL have money put aside to give Docklands a revamp every so often. This will keep up 'current and modern'.

3. Once Gold Coast and West Sydney are competing, and the new stadium is built, Demetriou will receive a nice bonus and move on.

 

[drewie_rama]

The way I see it.

Victoria Park
Positives - Public Transport, Infrastructure already in place, albeit run down. Decent capacity
Negatives - Council, Parking.

.

just on victoria park, i work on johnston st and there is now a new shopping area around 5 minutes down the road which has a multi level car park. Also there is a massive multi level car park which belongs to a business next door. Plenty of land there to build more car spots if required, but the train/bus is the obvious method of transport of getting there

 

[richardnose]

1. Any new AFL stadium will be built in the western suburbs.

2. The AFL have money put aside to give Docklands a revamp every so often. This will keep up 'current and modern'.

3. Once Gold Coast and West Sydney are competing, and the new stadium is built, Demetriou will receive a nice bonus and move on.

4. Once Gold Coast and West Sydney are competing, there will be two less melbourne-based clubs. Therefore there will be less games in melbourne and less melbourne-based clubs that don't draw good crowds and less demand for a 3rd "boutique" stadium.

from the dictionary:
bou⋅tique
[boo-teek]

–adjective
of, designating, or characteristic of a small, exclusive producer or business: one of California's best boutique wineries.

from the footy vernacular:
bou⋅tique stadium

–adjective
small, cheap and shitty.

 

[bluesdragons]

I understand that many clubs have been screwed by Carlton and the stadium deals before and therefore completely wipe the idea of playing at PP. But really it is the only location. Geelong is to far away and building any new stadium would be highly costly. The fact is the PP facilties really isnt that bad and with a bit of extra money spent on it would be quite good in no time.

Although public transport is the greatest to get there, with a reduced capacity and the trams It would be adequate. It should eb renovated anyways as with clubs like the Bulldogs and Melbourne ect playing interstate clubs, it is going to be highly unlikely that they can make a profit at the MCG or TD no matter the contract. Obviously though thr AFL must make sure that Carlton doesnt take advantage of the situation.

 

[speedpeck23]

I understand that many clubs have been screwed by Carlton and the stadium deals before and therefore completely wipe the idea of playing at PP. But really it is the only location. Geelong is to far away and building any new stadium would be highly costly. The fact is the PP facilties really isnt that bad and with a bit of extra money spent on it would be quite good in no time.

Although public transport is the greatest to get there, with a reduced capacity and the trams It would be adequate. It should eb renovated anyways as with clubs like the Bulldogs and Melbourne ect playing interstate clubs, it is going to be highly unlikely that they can make a profit at the MCG or TD no matter the contract. Obviously though thr AFL must make sure that Carlton doesnt take advantage of the situation.

Hate to agree with a Carlton supporter about PP but I think you make some good points.

 

[Zvim]

There are already two perfectly suitable stadiums for Australian rules. The Victorian government isn't going to build a third and the sport/league/supporters are certainly not "OWED" a third

There are 10 clubs using the 2 stadiums. One is large, one is medium, there is no small stadium suitable for smaller clubs.

You need to bring 45k at TD to make any money, need 60k at MCG to make anything of note, clubs will make double at a clean 30k stadium than they will getting 45k at TD or 60k at MCG.

30k stadiums are cheap, they are single tier stadiums, bigger than 30k requires expensive double or triple tier stadiums which need significant foundations and reinforcement for the stress of the structure.

Government hasn't provided any stadium for football, clubs are paying off TD and are paying off most of MCG redevelopment yet it is used for all global sports such as cricket, international soccer, rugby, commonwealth games, olympics, concerts, etc.

Government has put hardly anything back into football and has made a fortune out of the clubs. If they want the smaller clubs to survive, and they said they do, then they need somewhere adequate to play.

 

[Pklz]

I understand that many clubs have been screwed by Carlton and the stadium deals before and therefore completely wipe the idea of playing at PP. But really it is the only location. Geelong is to far away and building any new stadium would be highly costly. The fact is the PP facilties really isnt that bad and with a bit of extra money spent on it would be quite good in no time.

Although public transport is the greatest to get there, with a reduced capacity and the trams It would be adequate. It should eb renovated anyways as with clubs like the Bulldogs and Melbourne ect playing interstate clubs, it is going to be highly unlikely that they can make a profit at the MCG or TD no matter the contract. Obviously though thr AFL must make sure that Carlton doesnt take advantage of the situation.

Have you seen Princes Park lately?

Won't host another AFL I wouldn't think.

 

[Zvim]

Skilled Stadium anyone?

I know its our home ground, but there is a discussion on the cats board at the moment...

We play 8 or so games a year there... As you all know, its been redeveloped, its in good condition... Surely it could hold an extra few games for victorian v interstate teams, or two 'low crowd' victorian teams? The Geelong City Council owns the stadium, therefore you would get a high % of gate reciepts.

If push came to shove, and the AFL don't go ahead with the third stadium, surely SS and Optus Oval could be utilised?

Geelong approached us to consider playing some of our home games there, from what I heard it was more about how much Geelong made out of it than us having somewhere viable to play some games.

The emphasis of a boutique stadium is to have one that is clean. Skilled is not clean. PP wont be clean either, there is no way Carlton would hand over the keys to PP.

 

[The Dukes Brian]

I don't understand why people keep suggesting eastern and outer eastern suburbs when two of the teams in mind are based in the western suburbs and the other where the western and nothern suburbs meet are two of the teams who are the teams that this is supposed to benefeit.

A bulldogs home game vs fremantle in dandenong, casey, waverly etc? come on guys... seriously.

Agreed - its mainly basing itself on the bulldogs, north and whatnot, so it needs to be in a western direction.

Everyone else has come up with ridiculous ideas, so I will too - AFL should splash in the rest to make Skilled Stadium a 35-40K size stadium with lights and play footy out of there. People in Melbourne need to realise, it isn't on the other side of the world like they normally think. Its not that far... Go for that. Much much better.

 

[bluechampion]

Prices Park with a 22,000 capacity would suit, say, 20 games of Footy a year. Obviously it will be a slightly odd to have everyone essentially sitting at one end of the ground, but it's workable. If the AFL get on the front foot ASAP minor alterations may be able to be made to the current design with that in mind.

The other potential location could be Victoria Park. You'd have to start from scratch, but it's a footy oval with room for stands in inner Melbourne and well serviced by Trains.

The other option would be up near the State Hockey and Netball centre. There's space, and it's already a sporting precinct.

 

[greenred]

Does anyone have details of the minimum games agreements the AFL has with Etihad and the MCG and how long these run for? Also the minimum number of games Geelong have to play at Skilled?

I'll answer my own question.

MCG - minimum of 45 in Home and Away season
Etihad - minimum of 42 until 2015 (reduces to 35 and can include pre-season matches)

Assuming Carlton, Collingwood, Essendon, Melbourne, North Melbourne, Richmond and St Kilda play all 11 home games in Victoria, Hawthorn play 7 (4 in Tasmania), Geelong 3-4 (remainder in Geelong), Bulldogs 10 (usually sell at least one game per season), that leaves 10 games per season that the AFL are not committed to.

Who is going to spend big money to upgrade or build a new stadium for 1 game every 2 weeks?

 

[arkie]

I live in Williamstown and I wouldn't like the idea of travelling to Geelong, or Casey to see a Dogs home game. Aren't there any other better and more central locations?

 

[speedpeck23]

I live in Williamstown and I wouldn't like the idea of travelling to Geelong, or Casey to see a Dogs home game. Aren't there any other better and more central locations?

Its all about the AFL having critical control of at least one venue....then they can negotiate deals with the MCC and Docklands including the appropriate fixturing to the benefit of all clubs. Then for example the Bulldogs/Nth Melb etc would probably still play all their games at Docklands or MCG under a better deal.

A 30,000 seat stadium built in SE Suburbs would probably fixture matches involving StKilda/Melb(Casey)Hawthorn/Richmond for example..appropriate to a large number of their supporter base. ?? It could even be a new training venue for Melbourne at Casey. ...similar to the venue that the AFL is currently building in Western Sydney...except bigger capacity...ideal for matches involving Gold Coast/W Sydney/Port Adel/Freo against the afore-mentioned teams.