And we threw him out off one bad year
Analysis Derek Hine leaves the Pies
- Thread starter Bad Horse
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AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
- 5,909
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- Collingwood
Hey, atleast we didn’t just ‘give him away’.
AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
- 5,909
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Which club has worst KPF stocks than Collingwood?
I’ve been saying that for a while now.So many wasted picks,so many players who just aren’t up to it.The whole football department has had a clean out in the last six months.New football manager,list manager gone,coach gone.It’s time that Hine was added to the turnover.
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What key forwards have we failed to develop?
We havent had many to develop because they werent picked in the first place.
Where the blame lies.. who knows.....but maybe its time for fresh thinking
AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
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- Collingwood
Even with horrible drafting for 7/8 years from 2012 - 2019 we still managed to bust the salary cap. Figure that out can you? I can’t
- May 5, 2015
- 2,009
- 2,992
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- Collingwood
The mind boggles. Had and still have a heap of players around and in excess of 600,000. Grundy, pendles, adams, sidearse, Moore, JDG, Howe, the three we moved on, Cox FFS
- Sep 26, 2012
- 36,393
- 56,241
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- Collingwood
22-24 year olds were the years we skipped imo
AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
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- Collingwood
We’ve managed to skip a few age brackets for good measure
- Sep 26, 2012
- 36,393
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- Collingwood
Yep. Between 2013-2019 the only draft of note has been 2014. I did a thread on this earlier in the year, received some feedback. Oh well, hope smarter people are in place to be making decisions going forward.
AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
- 5,909
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Be great if you could bump it
Yep, I can whinge here all I want but thankfully more powerful supporters than I are making moves.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
Wouldn’t have though that has anything to do with Hine?
The senior coach comes up with the game plan. The senior coach writes out the shopping list for the roles that are needed to execute that game plan.
Hine then goes shopping with the shopping list, and finds players to fill those roles.
If we have poor KPF stocks, it’s because the senior coach doesn’t value KPF players.
AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
- 5,909
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Then why do we hear our strategy as being ‘draft the best available’?
Jasper84
Premiership Player
- Sep 23, 2013
- 4,998
- 16,066
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- Collingwood
2016 draft will go down as a complete anus by the club with regards to key forwards. Pick 7 went to GWS for Treloar, 30 for Mclarty, 35 for C.Brown, 50 for Kirby, 57 for J. Daicos.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
1. Because KPF’s are expensive, you need high draft picks to get good ones. And once we’ve spent our high picks on a player like Beams (nothing to do with Hine), then there’s not much currency left to get KPF players with. We did pick up a KPF with pick 31 last draft, and surprise surprise he’s not quite up to the standard of JUH.
2. Because it’s a throw away cliche answer that gets the club out of giving away its draft strategy. What would you think if Hine instead said “We’re really trying to load up on KPF’s this draft … we don’t have much currency to get them with, but we’re just crossing our fingers that decent ones fall through to us”?
AndrewShawble
Premiership Player
- Sep 10, 2019
- 3,618
- 5,909
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
We can come up with every excuse under the sun, but the proof is in the pudding
Trickster
Cancelled
- Jul 27, 2014
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The two genuine ones we had both went out the door, Murray and Stevo.
The issue is both Buckley and Hine.
I sound like a broken record but Buckley did not rate tall key power forwards. The fact that the football department allowed him to seemingly go unchallenged is staggering.
However, I think Hine sometimes gets a bit too clever. He is lucky that Darcy Moore fell into his lap and Nick Daicos is falling into his lap. I do owe him an apology over Pendles and Thomas as both were bold selections.
I still cannot get Sam McLarty out of my head lol.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
It’s not that we didn’t didn’t value them, it’s just that they’re super mega expensive. And maybe we’re better off not getting into a bidding war with Geelong for Jeremy Cameron’s services, or Richmond for Tom Lynch’s services if we think we can moneyball our goals from elsewhere. All the more so given our salary cap issues. And what do you do if that expensive horse flesh gets injured?
We got within a kick of the 2018 Premiership with our swoop squad, so we weren’t too far off.
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Richmond won the bidding war and more flags followed.
Our thinking is flawed as from the 2019 prelim (rolling the dice with Ben Reid) we have not moneyballed goals from anywhere. That strategy and line of thinking has failed. It’s cooked. Should be put to sleep.
Port - Multiple tall forwards
Brisbane - Joe Daniher
Geelong - Hawkins and Cameron
Sydney - I hardly watch them but I assume Buddy and ?
Dogs - Naughton and Bruce (he gets injured and they have fallen away)
Previous great teams - Lynch/Riewoldt, Wce - Kennedy/Darling, Buddy/Roughie, Lynch/Brown
By all means money ball your ruckman - Hickey, Nankervis, Stefan Martin, Lycett…….take A punt with your defenders but when it comes to your tall key forwards do not try and skimp. You pay for genuine quality either with a high draft pick in the draft or big bucks for a mature key forward.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
You can use the same argument to justify why they don’t work. McKay won the Coleman this year in a team that didn’t make finals. Ben Brown was a reliable KPF for many years in a team that was otherwise poor. Tex Walker had a decent year (onfield) but that didn’t do Adelaide’s fortunes much good. Players like Plugger and Fev were dominant KPF’s for years in teams that were otherwise rubbish.
Just because a team had a poor year with a gun KPF doesn't mean the team is poor because of that.
When people advocate getting a KPF it is because we have a dearth on the list and when you get a good one with other parts of the list in place it goes a long way to being a great team.
People aren't saying all you need is a KPF and its in the bag.
Its same argument I'm making with needing to get a couple years with low top 5 picks in, over all it increases chances of gaining guns and having a strong 22 with a few players capable of changing the momentum of the game consistently. Bont Martin Petracca hopefully Degoey and Daicos.
But then we have people throwing outliers in to say well we can just avoid those picks and still land guns cause Dane Swan, Fyfe and Beams.
Its just a fallacy that teams can regularly identify from each draft those talents from those late picks.
It also ignores the fact if you get pick 5 you also have pick 23 and 41 and 59. Its not like your recruiters skipping the draft after it.
