Traded Devon Smith [traded to Essendon]

[Turbocat]

Players using their money to invest is sensible but he did say what I said. I dont think him leaving is an absurd but I think we'll have cash as my best guess is we will have so say goodbye and wish Kelly well.
I want Devon to stay, he's a great outside mid/small forward and challenges Wilson as the best footskills at our club. That said if he wants to go I hope that can be sorted. But not with a second round pick.

As a comparison ..what have you got for other trades in recent times... Perhaps we can gauge it better that way.

 

[Bokonon_]

As a comparison ..what have you got for other trades in recent times... Perhaps we can gauge it better that way.

It's a fair question but not sure there's really an equivalent.
He's best 22 and a class player. Probably Treloar is the closest but the Magpies had the hots for him big time and we did a very good trade at two first rounders. Evened it up a bit by given them WHE cheap last year.
There's a trade there if one nèeds to be done, and our clubs have traded productively before. Polick 20 naah, that's all.

 

[Orange Agent]

To Geelong for Carlton's 2nd round pick.

Rofl.

 

[CatsDoItBetter]

It's a fair question but not sure there's really an equivalent.
He's best 22 and a class player. Probably Treloar is the closest but the Magpies had the hots for him big time and we did a very good trade at two first rounders. Evened it up a bit by given them WHE cheap last year.
There's a trade there if one nèeds to be done, and our clubs have traded productively before. Polick 20 naah, that's all.

Smith is not near the player that Treloar is though. He doesn't play enough through the middle to get a high end trade return. And he's not even the best at gws in the position he plays.
If he does nominate Geelong then I'm sure Geelong will get the trade done. Caddy was traded for pick 26 which many thought was a steal. But I think we'll see that play out as being a fair trade. Smith is worth a bit more than that but certainly not a top 10 pick.

 

[Bokonon_]

Smith is not near the player that Treloar is though. He doesn't play enough through the middle to get a high end trade return. And he's not even the best at gws in the position he plays.
If he does nominate Geelong then I'm sure Geelong will get the trade done. Caddy was traded for pick 26 which many thought was a steal. But I think we'll see that play out as being a fair trade. Smith is worth a bit more than that but certainly not a top 10 pick.

We'll see.
When they last played for us I wouldn't have rated him less valuable than Treloar. He doesn't have the inside game it's true, but he's no seagull either.

 

[Turbocat]

It's a fair question but not sure there's really an equivalent.
He's best 22 and a class player. Probably Treloar is the closest but the Magpies had the hots for him big time and we did a very good trade at two first rounders. Evened it up a bit by given them WHE cheap last year.
There's a trade there if one nèeds to be done, and our clubs have traded productively before. Polick 20 naah, that's all.

I dont know what it will be .. but as an age draft pick he almost fits Caddy... he was best 22 as well and was trade to the Tigers last year for a pick in the 20's.... but im sure we all could make our own judgments on what the players is worth , a bit pointless getting to highstrung about at this stage.

Im not sure if you have lost player to PSD etc , maybe you have that much talent choices you could do what Port did to Stevens... but clubs generally do not it.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Geelong have no money or currency

Wrong. Geelong could trade their 2018 first for him (which I would think would be enough on its own) and if they also have Carlton's 2nd this year then they would have enough currency and then some.

 

[TigerTime88]

Worth a pick between 10-15.

He is a gun

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Rofl.

Pick 22 and our 2018 first round pick for Devon Smith and Jacob Hopper. How does that sound.

 

[reload141]

Pick 22 and our 2018 first round pick for Devon Smith and Jacob Hopper. How does that sound.

Dreaming.

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Dreaming.

What would you suggest their worth to be?

 

[reload141]

What would you suggest their worth to be?

Hopper a pick between 6-10 and Smith 8-14

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Hopper a pick between 6-10 and Smith 8-14

That's overs imo, especially for Smith who is ooc. Not sure on Hoppers contract status.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

We'll see.
When they last played for us I wouldn't have rated him less valuable than Treloar. He doesn't have the inside game it's true, but he's no seagull either.

While i agree smith is a gun he's a bad trade value comparison to treloar as one is a mid and the other a small forward. Historically clubs dont like to use high draft picks to draft small forwards so they dont like to trade high picks for them either. Look at each club's small forwards:
Adelaide- betts (psd then free agent) cameron (rookie)
Brisbane: Taylor (pick 28) zorko (pre listed trade for 30s pick)
Carlton: wright (dfa) sumner (pick 10 then traded very cheap) pickett (see summer) smedts (traded cheap)
Essendon: fantasia (55) tipungwuti (rookie) green (pick 32 then dfa)
Fremantle ballantyne (mature age draft pick 21) walters (53)
Geelong motlop (39) gregson (47) mccarthy (66) parsons (rookie)
Hawthorn breust (rookie) puopolo (pick 66) rioli (pick 12)
North melb: thomas (53) anderson (complicated trade) turner (rookie) hrovat (cheap trade)
Port: r gray (55) impey (21) neade (pre list trade) s gray (rookie)
Melbourne garlett (rookie then pick 61 trade) kennedy (howe trade) kennedy harris (pick 40)
Richmond rioli (pick 15) castagna (rookie) buler (67) lloyd (mature age late pick draft)
Sydney: papley (rookie) cunningham (rookie) hayward (20)
St kilda lonie (37) sinclair (rookie) minchington (rookie) gresham (14)
Westcoast lecras (pick 37) hill (trade for 49) cripps (24 then traded for 44)
W bulldogs dickson (mature age draft 57) dahlhaus (rookie) mclean (26)

What that shows is clubs will rarely draft a small forward in the top 15 unless their surname is rioli and a lot of small forwards are traded in for picks after 30 and become good value so there is little value in a club trading a high first rounder for a small forward. Don't get me wrong i think smith is a gun but i dont think his trade value is anywhere near that of a treloar or shiel or kelly etc (largely for this reason).

The other factor in a smith trade is clubs have to turn over list spots each year and fill most of them at the draft (and you guys are no different). The reality is if smith is going and you take nothing because you're offered 20 and you want 10 the reality is you still have to fill the list spot but you now have to do it using an inferior pick (40 50 60 etc). Thats why clubs regularly take 70c in the dollar on trades than take nothing. Now i think it's unlikely it would come to that as geelong are in my opinion pretty generous traders and you will be happy with what they offer i suspect, but i disagree that you guys would be likely to take nothing over a slightly lower offer.

 

[JG22]

SOS will dangle pick 2 to involve Kelly & Smith...what will happen - will smash anything Saints and North will be able to offer players and club.

Neither of them would have any interest in going to Carlton.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Wrong. Geelong could trade their 2018 first for him (which I would think would be enough on its own) and if they also have Carlton's 2nd this year then they would have enough currency and then some.

Geelong have a few likely F/S draft players next year which makes it less of a negative for us to trade our first rounder in 2018 than a 'normal' year but it would still be a big call to do so and i expect we would prefer to trade the pick we got from carlton for smith instead.

Hopper a pick between 6-10 and Smith 8-14

If both were under contract (neither is) i would agree or if both were prepared to auction themselves off to all vic clubs (to whoever gives gws the best offer) then yes. If they both nominate one club only (as most players seem to do now) pick 12-15 for each (or the points value equivalent) should get it done.

 

[Bokonon_]

While i agree smith is a gun he's a bad trade value comparison to treloar as one is a mid and the other a small forward. Historically clubs dont like to use high draft picks to draft small forwards so they dont like to trade high picks for them either. Look at each club's small forwards:
Adelaide- betts (psd then free agent) cameron (rookie)
Brisbane: Taylor (pick 28) zorko (pre listed trade for 30s pick)
Carlton: wright (dfa) sumner (pick 10 then traded very cheap) pickett (see summer) smedts (traded cheap)
Essendon: fantasia (55) tipungwuti (rookie) green (pick 32 then dfa)
Fremantle ballantyne (mature age draft pick 21) walters (53)
Geelong motlop (39) gregson (47) mccarthy (66) parsons (rookie)
Hawthorn breust (rookie) puopolo (pick 66) rioli (pick 12)
North melb: thomas (53) anderson (complicated trade) turner (rookie) hrovat (cheap trade)
Port: r gray (55) impey (21) neade (pre list trade) s gray (rookie)
Melbourne garlett (rookie then pick 61 trade) kennedy (howe trade) kennedy harris (pick 40)
Richmond rioli (pick 15) castagna (rookie) buler (67) lloyd (mature age late pick draft)
Sydney: papley (rookie) cunningham (rookie) hayward (20)
St kilda lonie (37) sinclair (rookie) minchington (rookie) gresham (14)
Westcoast lecras (pick 37) hill (trade for 49) cripps (24 then traded for 44)
W bulldogs dickson (mature age draft 57) dahlhaus (rookie) mclean (26)

What that shows is clubs will rarely draft a small forward in the top 15 unless their surname is rioli and a lot of small forwards are traded in for picks after 30 and become good value so there is little value in a club trading a high first rounder for a small forward. Don't get me wrong i think smith is a gun but i dont think his trade value is anywhere near that of a treloar or shiel or kelly etc (largely for this reason).

The other factor in a smith trade is clubs have to turn over list spots each year and fill most of them at the draft (and you guys are no different). The reality is if smith is going and you take nothing because you're offered 20 and you want 10 the reality is you still have to fill the list spot but you now have to do it using an inferior pick (40 50 60 etc). Thats why clubs regularly take 70c in the dollar on trades than take nothing. Now i think it's unlikely it would come to that as geelong are in my opinion pretty generous traders and you will be happy with what they offer i suspect, but i disagree that you guys would be likely to take nothing over a slightly lower offer.

I have to disagree, again the issue is the price. Devon isn't teally a small forward in the traditional mould anyway. He's more like your old fashioned running forward flanker. Probably in that role because Scully and Whitfield generally own the wing/outside mid slots in our side.
I get Geelong has little trade currency it would be interesting to see it play out. A deal both sides can live with is most likely.
Taking 70c in the dollar is getting shafted though and I am certain it would leave Devon with the option of accepting another club or going to the draft.
No one wins in that scenario it's true but it's Devon I would feel for, better he gets to where he wants to go if he wants out.

 

[Turbocat]

I have to disagree, again the issue is the price. Devon isn't teally a small forward in the traditional mould anyway. He's more like your old fashioned running forward flanker. Probably in that role because Scully and Whitfield generally own the wing/outside mid slots in our side.
I get Geelong has little trade currency it would be interesting to see it play out. A deal both sides can live with is most likely.
Taking 70c in the dollar is getting shafted though and I am certain it would leave Devon with the option of accepting another club or going to the draft.
No one wins in that scenario it's true but it's Devon I would feel for, better he gets to where he wants to go if he wants out.

You seem a fairly realistic observer.. and I'm not try to be argumentative for the sake of it...but when a player is out of contract..you will get less than what you may deem his talent is worthy of. There is also a bias towards kids in the draft , rather than known talent. Smith may be better than he has show , perhaps he has had few opportunities due to the depth of your list.. but he seems to play a bit part role ..as a HFF and as such I really doubt he he goes for a R1 pick. As I said before time will tell.. bias on here always slants towards ones beliefs and not what happens in between two clubs. The 70c on the dollar is not being shafted at all its just what the market pays , and good clubs generally are proactive and just move on rather than get bogged down. Id say GWS have shown they are willing to do this , just like with ..
Ahern <> P69
Steele <> StK 2017R2
Will Hoskin Elliot <> Coll 2017R2
Jarrod Picket , Caleb Marchbank , 2017R2 <> P45,P58 and Gee2017R1

 

[Bokonon_]

You seem a fairly realistic observer.. and I'm not try to be argumentative for the sake of it...but when a player is out of contract..you will get less than what you may deem his talent is worthy of. There is also a bias towards kids in the draft , rather than known talent. Smith may be better than he has show , perhaps he has had few opportunities due to the depth of your list.. but he seems to play a bit part role ..as a HFF and as such I really doubt he he goes for a R1 pick. As I said before time will tell.. bias on here always slants towards ones beliefs and not what happens in between two clubs. The 70c on the dollar is not being shafted at all its just what the market pays , and good clubs generally are proactive and just move on rather than get bogged down. Id say GWS have shown they are willing to do this , just like with ..
Ahern <> P69
Steele <> StK 2017R2
Will Hoskin Elliot <> Coll 2017R2
Jarrod Picket , Caleb Marchbank , 2017R2 <> P45,P58 and Gee2017R1

It's not personal, just an exchange of views. Tje deal with those guys was we were reducing our list size as required, and they needed opportunity. Marchbank is the closest in terms of value to Smith but our deals with Carlton are very complex and you can't look at a player in isolation.
I do have soft spot for Norrh in taking on Ahern and giving him support through his rehab. Inreturn they get a cheap throw of the dice. Trading is a cold business though.
I suspect given your lack of pick currency, player trade options would be explored. In any case There seems to be some serious negotiating to happen end of season if he does nominate Geelong. We have traded well in the past.

 

[Orange Agent]

Pick 22 and our 2018 first round pick for Devon Smith and Jacob Hopper. How does that sound.

Probably enough for Hopper.

 

[Orange Agent]

Hopper a pick between 6-10 and Smith 8-14

This wrong way around, Smith is the better player at this stage, proven matchwinner.

 

[Toadvine]

Jack Steele went for a 2nd rounder. Dev is definitely worth a 1st. There will be too much demand from other clubs for Geelong to get him for unders.

 

[reload141]

This wrong way around, Smith is the better player at this stage, proven matchwinner.

Yeah mine was just an outsiders guess, highly rate both. Would love to somehow get Hopper to the Dons.

 

[reload141]

That's overs imo, especially for Smith who is ooc. Not sure on Hoppers contract status.

At the end of the day you would need to satisfy GWS's demands, for example you could do geelongs 1st and 2nd for Smith & a 3rd rounder. But in no way do you get both.

 

[JG22]

Jack Steele went for a 2nd rounder. Dev is definitely worth a 1st. There will be too much demand from other clubs for Geelong to get him for unders.

Well not if he doesn't have any interest in going to this other clubs