Opinion Did Taranto and Hopper make a mistake leaving the Giants for Richmond?

[Mr Meow]

You are obviously trolling, but Hopper has played well in the games he has played this season, although a bit ragged with his disposal after 6 weeks on the sidelines injured v Melbourne, he was the leading possession getter on the ground when he left the field injured and the Demons mids only got on top after Hopper went off the ground.

Richmond desperately need Hopper to be fit and playing, there is no way they would want to trade him.

Hopper has 3 score involvements and 5.3 turnovers per game in 2024. That is a shocking ratio (almost 1:2) for a midfielder who does not take high risk options.

Even Taranto is 1 for 1 on score involvement to turnover ratio, and he's a butcher.

For comparison, old man Dangerfield is not the cleanest ball user but is going at 7.7 score involvements and 4.7 turnovers per game. So close to a 2:1 ratio - much more representative of hurting opposition with the ball.

Hopper racking up poor disposals is not necessarily a good thing.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Hopper has 3 score involvements and 5.3 turnovers per game in 2024. That is a shocking ratio (almost 1:2) for a midfielder who does not take high risk options.

Even Taranto is 1 for 1 on score involvement to turnover ratio, and he's a butcher.

For comparison, old man Dangerfield is not the cleanest ball user but is going at 7.7 score involvements and 4.7 turnovers per game. So close to a 2:1 ratio - much more representative of hurting opposition with the ball.

Hopper racking up poor disposals is not necessarily a good thing.

Wait, what? Mr Meow has turned full circle and score involvements from a small handful of games are now a critical measure of a player's performance.

Let's see Hopper fully fit operating in a Richmond team that is close to full strength consistently, then we can start making judgements. Not one game back after 6 weeks out injured coming into a team with a load of its best 22 missing and no stability, under a new coach etc.

But Hopper was never recruited to be a star midfielder who bursts out of stoppages and creates scoring opportunities. He was recruited to stop the bigger opposition mids dominating Richmond physically.

 

[Mr Meow]

Wait, what? Mr Meow has turned full circle and score involvements from a small handful of games are now a critical measure of a player's performance.

Let's see Hopper fully fit operating in a Richmond team that is close to full strength consistently, then we can start making judgements. Not one game back after 6 weeks out injured coming into a team with a load of its best 22 missing and no stability, under a new coach etc.

But Hopper was never recruited to be a star midfielder who bursts out of stoppages and creates scoring opportunities. He was recruited to stop the bigger opposition mids dominating Richmond physically.

You were the one talking about how well he is playing currently. Specifically referencing last night.

Wouldn't it have been weirder if you said he is playing well and I looked at his score involvement to turnover ratio from 2017?

But if we went back to 2023 he was going at 4.6 score involvements and 3.6 turnovers per game.

I'm not saying he's going terribly when he's out there. He's had 18 games with a few cut short by injury. So we will get to round 11 or so and he will have had 1.5 seasons for about 15 full games of decent, but not great quality. It's not a good return so far. Anyway hopefully these injury issues subside, because he is not worth much while sidelined.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Would Richmond consider doing a "Bowes deal" to get Hopper's contract off their books?

e.g. Trade Baker for massive unders on the condition a club takes Hopper and his full contract? Or trade Hopper and a first-rounder to a club that's struggling to even meet minimum cap?

The Bowes deal was special because Gold Coast had a tight cap and gun youngsters who would've left if they weren't paid extra. So it was lose Bowes' contract or lose one of Rowell, Anderson, King, Lukocious, etc.

Richmond doesn't have any young guns they need to pay up to keep so it's not the same situation. They don't lose anything from keeping Hopper. There won't be any trading away of picks for cap space.

The interesting question is whether their older stars see the writing on the wall and ask to leave and how Richmond approach that. Baker is clearly a chance to go but he's uncontracted so they have no power. But will Vlastuin, Short, Rioli, etc angle to leave?

 

[3207]

I personally think the first and second generation GWS midfidlers were pretty weak. Guys like Kelly, Shiel, Taranto and Hopper. They are all good on paper, but they only seemed to play well when their team was playing well. None of them had the ability to drag their team over the line or stand up when the team really needed it. It was smart of GWS to slowly filter them out as the new generation of midfielders seems far more resiliant.

Does not belong in this list.

Treloar, however…

 

[juss]

Hopper has 3 score involvements and 5.3 turnovers per game in 2024. That is a shocking ratio (almost 1:2) for a midfielder who does not take high risk options.

Even Taranto is 1 for 1 on score involvement to turnover ratio, and he's a butcher.

For comparison, old man Dangerfield is not the cleanest ball user but is going at 7.7 score involvements and 4.7 turnovers per game. So close to a 2:1 ratio - much more representative of hurting opposition with the ball.

Hopper racking up poor disposals is not necessarily a good thing.

Score involvements probably not the best measure right now as we struggle to score. We're probably last or bottom 2 or 3 on average points for this year, largely due to a dysfunctional and second rate forward line.

 

[MisterMarcus]

You are obviously trolling, but Hopper has played well in the games he has played this season, although a bit ragged with his disposal after 6 weeks on the sidelines injured v Melbourne, he was the leading possession getter on the ground when he left the field injured and the Demons mids only got on top after Hopper went off the ground.

Richmond desperately need Hopper to be fit and playing, there is no way they would want to trade him.

Yeah....he went off the ground injured. Again.....

Most Richmond fans accept that they're in for a long hard rebuild. I'm not sure a 27 year old on big money and a long term deal who struggles to even get on the park is helping with that. If you truly thought you were still in the window and Hopper was just "the last piece of the puzzle" (which I guess was the position in 2022) then sure....but it just hasn't worked out like that.

I'd have thought Richmond would at least be considering something like that as a possibility.

 

[Mr Meow]

Score involvements probably not the best measure right now as we struggle to score. We're probably last or bottom 2 or 3 on average points for this year, largely due to a dysfunctional and second rate forward line.

That works both ways though - good ball users get more out of their forwards. And last year your forward line was similar, except with a cooked Riewoldt instead of Lefau.

Ball movement (skills/handling) and decision making look like two of the big issues right now. There were often free Richmond players streaming forward the other night but there were too few players who could actually hit them up.

 

[Mr Meow]

Yeah....he went off the ground injured. Again.....

Most Richmond fans accept that they're in for a long hard rebuild. I'm not sure a 27 year old on big money and a long term deal who struggles to even get on the park is helping with that. If you truly thought you were still in the window and Hopper was just "the last piece of the puzzle" (which I guess was the position in 2022) then sure....but it just hasn't worked out like that.

I'd have thought Richmond would at least be considering something like that as a possibility.

Bruhn is 22 and has way more upside, and is already getting on the park more. We might get another decade out of him.

Hopper is so fed up he didn't even want to go off the other night. But his body is letting him down and he isn't a spring chicken.

Bruhn and Clark/Bowes would have been a far better option for where Richmond are at. Bowes more in the "now" bracket, with the other two building for the future. Then the Taranto deal could've still gone through separately.

 

[juss]

Bruhn is 22 and has way more upside, and is already getting on the park more. We might get another decade out of him.

Hopper is so fed up he didn't even want to go off the other night. But his body is letting him down and he isn't a spring chicken.

Bruhn and Clark/Bowes would have been a far better option for where Richmond are at. Bowes more in the "now" bracket, with the other two building for the future. Then the Taranto deal could've still gone through separately.

I've said even before the trades went through, we needed Taranto and that trade is still fine, he won our B&F and can't fault him for getting injured this year.

Hopper was a stretch and surplus to needs, we overpaid for him in trade value and eventually picks, but we didn't expect to bomb out either.

Salary cap was not and is not an issue, Riewoldt, Cotchin off the books, Martin last year of deal, Lynch towards the end of his deal, we always knew we were never in cap trouble.

We addressed a weakness but we over addressed it and it didn't go to plan. It's one bad trade decision in hindsight but no one has hindsight when you're making calls at the time. We gambled on contending again, you don't have many eras with 3 flags in it so we took the chance on a 4th and if it sets us back so be it, it's a better period than some fans see in a lifetime.

 

[BF Tiger]

Bruhn is 22 and has way more upside, and is already getting on the park more. We might get another decade out of him.

Hopper is so fed up he didn't even want to go off the other night. But his body is letting him down and he isn't a spring chicken.

Bruhn and Clark/Bowes would have been a far better option for where Richmond are at. Bowes more in the "now" bracket, with the other two building for the future. Then the Taranto deal could've still gone through separately.

Bruhn was a sook who always wanted to go home to Geelong. We all remember the look on his face on draft day.

Bowes is only a year younger than Hopper and had been in and out of the Gold Coast side. Played a lot of games but was either injury prone, which everyone knocks Hopper for, or not good enough to be best 22 when a few players came back from injury (only 5 games in 2022). I think it is fair to say Hopper would have been regarded as a better player at the end of 2022. I doubt Geelong target him if the sweetener wasn't added, and the ability to re-negotiate his contract. He comes on, so bully for Geelong.

It seems to be forgotten that Geelong rated Hopper enough to want him down at KP. It may have happened if Richmond had not offered a better deal. No doubt Richmond offered more money for longer, but no-one actually knows what Geelong tabled. Regardless, it's very easy in hindsight to say it was bad deal, but if Hopper had not had the injury troubles he has had over his time at Richmond he would no doubt be seen as a very solid player averaging 20+ possessions, albeit one who may be a little overpaid. There is still that possibility.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Bruhn was a sook who always wanted to go home to Geelong. We all remember the look on his face on draft day.

Bowes is only a year younger than Hopper and had been in and out of the Gold Coast side. Played a lot of games but was either injury prone, which everyone knocks Hopper for, or not good enough to be best 22 when a few players came back from injury (only 5 games in 2022). I think it is fair to say Hopper would have been regarded as a better player at the end of 2022. I doubt Geelong target him if the sweetener wasn't added, and the ability to re-negotiate his contract. He comes on, so bully for Geelong.

It seems to be forgotten that Geelong rated Hopper enough to want him down at KP. It may have happened if Richmond had not offered a better deal. No doubt Richmond offered more money for longer, but no-one actually knows what Geelong tabled. Regardless, it's very easy in hindsight to say it was bad deal, but if Hopper had not had the injury troubles he has had over his time at Richmond he would no doubt be seen as a very solid player averaging 20+ possessions, albeit one who may be a little overpaid. There is still that possibility.

I think Bruhn just didn't want to go to GWS. I'm pretty sure he was considering other Vic teams when he chose to come back to Geelong. I'm not sure he would've chosen Geelong if we had got Hopper.

We were interested in Bowes from a long way out. The pick only came about late when it was clear GC had to get his massive back-ended salary off their books entirely or lose a gun kid. Otherwise the deal likely would've been for a throw away pick with GC paying half his wage for 2 years.

Hopper is a good player. From what I've heard Geelong were offering 4 and considering going to 5. Then he came back asking for ~$100k extra over 7 and we walked away. That scale of 7-year deal for an injury prone player was always madness. Combining it with Taranto when 1 inside bull was enough and then overpaying with the future draft pick was completely crazy and has likely set Richmond back years.

 

[3207]

Wonder what Hopper and Taranto think about the umpiring of Richmond compared to their former club?

Opposition team given 100% more free kicks last night. Again.

Opposition players are more likely to get cited for a high hit than are Hopper, Taranto and co. likely to get a high contact FKs in-game!

I bet they are both wishing they transferred to a club that gets a fair go from the officials.

Maybe they can write a letter?

Umps hate us more than your lot, always have

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Bruhn was a sook who always wanted to go home to Geelong. We all remember the look on his face on draft day.

Bowes is only a year younger than Hopper and had been in and out of the Gold Coast side. Played a lot of games but was either injury prone, which everyone knocks Hopper for, or not good enough to be best 22 when a few players came back from injury (only 5 games in 2022). I think it is fair to say Hopper would have been regarded as a better player at the end of 2022. I doubt Geelong target him if the sweetener wasn't added, and the ability to re-negotiate his contract. He comes on, so bully for Geelong.

It seems to be forgotten that Geelong rated Hopper enough to want him down at KP. It may have happened if Richmond had not offered a better deal. No doubt Richmond offered more money for longer, but no-one actually knows what Geelong tabled. Regardless, it's very easy in hindsight to say it was bad deal, but if Hopper had not had the injury troubles he has had over his time at Richmond he would no doubt be seen as a very solid player averaging 20+ possessions, albeit one who may be a little overpaid. There is still that possibility.

I would have been happy with Hopper, but equally, I was delighted with the haul of Bruhn, Henry and Clark (in fairness I barely even gave Bowes a thought). Hopper and Brodie Grundy (another player we were regularly linked to) were plug and play additions, Hopper with multiple top five B&F finishes for GWS. Bruhn, Henry and Clark offered something different: about early-mid first round draft pick and two highly-touted youngsters who'd yet to really establish themselves. It excitingly gave us a group of players who'd grow and improve over the next 3-5 years and would hit their ceiling with the Cats. I think Geelong has to take credit with how that group (including Bowes) has collectively flourished in the year and a half that they've been with us.

Taranto and Hopper were pretty clearly (to me at least) a calculated attempt by Richmond to squeeze a final premiership out of the Cotchin/Riewoldt/Martin/Hardwick era. And despite both playing good footy for Richmond, in terms of what they were trying to achieve, it's been a pretty spectacular misfire.

 

[BF Tiger]

I think Bruhn just didn't want to go to GWS. I'm pretty sure he was considering other Vic teams when he chose to come back to Geelong. I'm not sure he would've chosen Geelong if we had got Hopper.

We were interested in Bowes from a long way out. The pick only came about late when it was clear GC had to get his massive back-ended salary off their books entirely or lose a gun kid. Otherwise the deal likely would've been for a throw away pick with GC paying half his wage for 2 years.

Hopper is a good player. From what I've heard Geelong were offering 4 and considering going to 5. Then he came back asking for ~$100k extra over 7 and we walked away. That scale of 7-year deal for an injury prone player was always madness. Combining it with Taranto when 1 inside bull was enough and then overpaying with the future draft pick was completely crazy and has likely set Richmond back years.

I think injury prone is a bit unfair. Yes, he missed most of 2022 with a knee injury, but played the last six games of the season. In the four seasons prior he averaged 21 games per season. Players get injured and players come back from injury all the time. At the moment he is having a bad run but we have to have faith that he will overcome. He did play 16 games last year, but IIRC some were missed because of concussion.

 

[BF Tiger]

I would have been happy with Hopper, but equally, I was delighted with the haul of Bruhn, Henry and Clark (in fairness I barely even gave Bowes a thought). Hopper and Brodie Grundy (another player we were regularly linked to) were plug and play additions, Hopper with multiple top five B&F finishes for GWS. Bruhn, Henry and Clark offered something different: about early-mid first round draft pick and two highly-touted youngsters who'd yet to really establish themselves. It excitingly gave us a group of players who'd grow and improve over the next 3-5 years and would hit their ceiling with the Cats. I think Geelong has to take credit with how that group (including Bowes) has collectively flourished in the year and a half that they've been with us.

Taranto and Hopper were pretty clearly (to me at least) a calculated attempt by Richmond to squeeze a final premiership out of the Cotchin/Riewoldt/Martin/Hardwick era. And despite both playing good footy for Richmond, in terms of what they were trying to achieve, it's been a pretty spectacular misfire.

It's a misfire at the moment but what price do you pay for the chance of a premiership?

Fact is we also need some mature midfield bodies. Cotchin gone, Martin aging, Prestia cooked. We had money to spend, a salary cap to fill. While the premiership didn't materialise with five more years of each let's look back then and judge.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

It's a misfire at the moment but what price do you pay for the chance of a premiership?

Fact is we also need some mature midfield bodies. Cotchin gone, Martin aging, Prestia cooked. We had money to spend, a salary cap to fill. While the premiership didn't materialise with five more years of each let's look back then and judge.

Agree completely. I'd say both would be in Richmond's top half dozen players at the moment, or close enough. It could be worse.

 

[3207]

Bruhn is 22 and has way more upside, and is already getting on the park more. We might get another decade out of him.

Hopper is so fed up he didn't even want to go off the other night. But his body is letting him down and he isn't a spring chicken.

Bruhn and Clark/Bowes would have been a far better option for where Richmond are at. Bowes more in the "now" bracket, with the other two building for the future. Then the Taranto deal could've still gone through separately.

Absolute pea heart

 

[Footy Smarts]

It's a misfire at the moment but what price do you pay for the chance of a premiership?

You (Dimma?) clearly got sucked in by a decent month at the end of 2022. You'd missed finals in 2021 then were sitting 10th after round 19 in 2022. Winning 4 in a row (3 against non finalists) going into finals then pushing Brisbane was a false dawn.

Too many older players dropping off and no youngsters coming through to take the burden. It was delusion to think they gave you a chance at a flag. You've had some issues so been below your best since but 11.5 wins from 30 matches suggests you weren't close to contending.

Fact is we also need some mature midfield bodies. Cotchin gone, Martin aging, Prestia cooked. We had money to spend, a salary cap to fill. While the premiership didn't materialise with five more years of each let's look back then and judge.

There are a lot of ways to get mature players without selling out of consecutive drafts almost entirely.

You could've gone after Bowes and benefited from the salary dump. Setterfield moved for basically nothing. O'Meara moved for almost nothing. Bruhn was not locked in on Geelong while we were talking to Hopper. He was younger but likely to come on sooner than a draftee.

It was clearly Dimma throwing a hail Mary. And he realised quick smart the mistake he made.

 

[My Tilly]

Absolute pea heart

He has been very impressive this season. His ferocity at the contest has been tremendous.
He was never going to crack into that GWS midfield. Never wanted to remain in that soulless part of the state.

Turning into a pretty decent footballer.
I said he reminded me a lot like Taylor Adams (must have been a pea heart too?), but he looks to have a bit more polish to his game than Taylor.

 

[BlueJet]

I don't believe so.
They both appeared likely to move to Victoria at some point.
GWS did well from the trades.
Richmond, I assume, were hoping that they'd extend their window of contention & give them something to build around longer term as they still should have quite a bit of tread on the tyres.
The question is around Hopper's durability.

 

[3207]

He has been very impressive this season. His ferocity at the contest has been tremendous.
He was never going to crack into that GWS midfield. Never wanted to remain in that soulless part of the state.

Turning into a pretty decent footballer.
I said he reminded me a lot like Taylor Adams (must have been a pea heart too?), but he looks to have a bit more polish to his game than Taylor.

An embarrassment to the name Bruhn.

 

[catscratchfever]

Much like the Bowes guy who is not even vfl standard earning the same kinda money

It happens

Bowes is one of the most improved players at Geelong and indeed in the league

 

[catscratchfever]

Hardwick as he said left early because he didn’t want his time at Richmond to end on a sour note. Which is what happened to Clarko at the Hawks.

Did the gamble with Taranto and Hopper pay off? No, but that doesn’t make him a snake.

Most people including myself were happy with the gamble, we still had the players why would we just roll over and accept defeat? There is always time to do a rebuild but getting a 4 flag dynasty comes once or twice in a lifetime.

Why accept defeat when it can be forced upon you?

 

[WillHayward]

From a personal perspective they made the right choice.

Hopper is paid very well and getting a regular game at Tigers in the AFL in front of big crowds. At the Giants hes playing VFL on minimum wage.

Taranto would be on the bench at the Giants and paid around 15th. At the Tigers hes paid top 3.

Absolute no brainer for the players.