Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[stormbird]

She was interrogated by experts, who would be able to tell the difference between truth, coached testimony, and fantasy. No 4YO is capable of deceiving experts, intentionally or otherwise. The suggestion that she could be convincingly coached and maintain the narrative for 10 years is ridiculous and frankly insulting to her character and intelligence.

The historical case against Mr Spedding was found to be ridiculous partly because the children in that case were coached. I think no one accuses them of lying, rather they were manipulated in a bitter family custody dispute.

 

[Wallace52]

“In his opening statement, Gerard Craddock, SC, said despite extremely “intense, methodical and thorough” investigations, no forensic evidence or eyewitness accounts had helped provide “a clue for the reason for his disappearance”.


“Police assert that the foster mother must have quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered, she might lose [another child in her care],” he said.

Tyrrell foster mother theory presented to coroner, but court reminded ‘guesses are not rational’ — The Sydney Morning Herald

A police theory that three-year-old William Tyrrell died after accidentally falling from a balcony at his foster grandmother’s home will be probed at the coronial inquest in Sydney.

apple.news

How do the police know the motive for the cover up?

Did they retrieve some of the deleted text messages? Are they just guessing on motive?

Their proposed motive doesn’t really make sense to me.

IMO

 

[LRitz]

He told the court that a polyester suit similar to the Spider-Man outfit William was wearing on the day he disappeared would have taken centuries to degrade.

“The estimate is hundreds of years,” Professor Olley said.

I don't think he was still in his spiderman suit when he disappeared. Why is this assumed by the court! IMO the suit was all part of the planned events that morning. Again all IMO.
No assumptions and no coincidences.

 

[js47]

Looks like the cafe in the court complex.

Did any one notice who paid the bill

 

[Wallace52]

Did any one notice who paid the bill

See attached.

 

[Wallace52]

Perhaps the coroner will ask the FF about his movements early Friday morning? He was not at the house when Wendy Hudson arrived.

Where was he?

 

[Kurve]

Among other things. If they can pinpoint the exact time the truck driver saw the FGM car then that will be a significant piece of evidence. Any earlier than 10:30 incriminates FM.

Am I imagining I heard the cops on the case say they were using this new software they have, where they can overlay historical comms data to track exactly where everybody was at a given time?

I'm hoping they've used this to pinpoint what time the truck driver was on Batar Creek Road.

 

[LRitz]

“In his opening statement, Gerard Craddock, SC, said despite extremely “intense, methodical and thorough” investigations, no forensic evidence or eyewitness accounts had helped provide “a clue for the reason for his disappearance”.

"despite extremely “intense, methodical and thorough” investigations,...."
I'm speechless.

 

[31550]

“In his opening statement, Gerard Craddock, SC, said despite extremely “intense, methodical and thorough” investigations, no forensic evidence or eyewitness accounts had helped provide “a clue for the reason for his disappearance”.


“Police assert that the foster mother must have quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered, she might lose [another child in her care],” he said.

Tyrrell foster mother theory presented to coroner, but court reminded ‘guesses are not rational’ — The Sydney Morning Herald

A police theory that three-year-old William Tyrrell died after accidentally falling from a balcony at his foster grandmother’s home will be probed at the coronial inquest in Sydney.

apple.news

How do the police know the motive for the cover up?

Did they retrieve some of the deleted text messages? Are they just guessing on motive?

Their proposed motive doesn’t really make sense to me.

IMO

Exactly. Evidence doesn't support an accident. It does support something more sinister I am afraid.

 

[31550]

Am I imagining I heard the cops on the case say they were using this new software they have, where they can overlay historical comms data to track exactly where everybody was at a given time?

I'm hoping they've used this to pinpoint what time the truck driver was on Batar Creek Road.

We had this discussion. I believe they cannot go back in time that far. I know others are more optimistic.

 

[truecrimepath]

She was interrogated by experts, who would be able to tell the difference between truth, coached testimony, and fantasy. No 4YO is capable of deceiving experts, intentionally or otherwise. The suggestion that she could be convincingly coached and maintain the narrative for 10 years is ridiculous and frankly insulting to her character and intelligence.

Well here is the evidence, I doubt you will acknowledge it though.
It basically shows that children under 5 memory is highly plastic and can't be relied on. Hardly ridiculous. She was 4 years and 9 months old.

https://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2014/10/08/4089665.htm

 

[Wallace52]

Senior Constable Jost Preis will discuss the methodology of the search, including the use of GPS trackers to ensure that every patch of ground was covered.

Forensic anthropologist Jennifer Menzies will then take the stand to discuss the decomposition of a body and how bones are broken down or preserved in certain environmental conditions.

If time allows, additional evidence about efforts of police to identify those in the area when William disappeared as well as the use of both search and cadaver dogs to locate him will also be heard.


https://amp.9news.com.au/article/2ea3bdd0-6fa0-441e-921d-f60a41d356db

Credit: Miklos Bolza for 9 News

 

[Awakening]

PSA (request at least)
Since the coronial inquest is now focussed on the theory that William died at FGM property after 9:37 and was removed by FM, and there are no proposed witnesses to refute the authenticity of the photographs, and there is nothing alleged by the police concerning the photographs, ...
Can we please just accept that the police and the coroner accept the 9:37 photographs as genuine proof-of-life and there will be no further challenge as to their authenticity?
So, it really doesn't help discussing any theory that William left the property or died before 9:37am.

I can’t accept that the photos were taken at 9:37 because there’s been no confirmation from police or the coroner either way. Hopefully it is cleared up.

I don’t believe the photos needed to be taken earlier in order for FM to launch her cover up.

And I agree, it seems an unnecessary and convoluted thing to do.

I disagree that if they did manipulate the time that it’s a slam dunk for the police. Although it would be for me.

If that’s all the evidence they had, it wouldn’t be enough.

Defence would no doubt bring in their own experts to testify that it hadn’t been manipulated.

FM could claim it was a genuine error or FGM must have done it. That there were similar photos taken that day at around 9:30 and those photos were accidentally deleted and she just assumed the ones taken in February were the ones from September.

That they had a routine at FGM’s of playing on the deck and that William wore his Spiderman costume everywhere so it all just blended in to one.

The fosters have money so we know they would get the very best defence lawyers.

I think if it happened today the science would pick it up with great accuracy. But ten years ago, less so.

The prosecution would have to present evidence that it’s 100% certain it was manipulated and that it was manipulated by the fosters and no one else, in order for it to be admissible.

 

[phonics_mnemonics]

While I definitely have doubts about her (the sister's) perceptions and memories from the time (based on what I know of kids that age, as someone that works with young children), I don't have doubts about how she felt living in their house in the years after it happened, before she was assaulted and removed from their 'care'. She'd know, even if she didn't see or hear anything, IMO

 

[Wallace52]

Exactly. Evidence doesn't support an accident. It does support something more sinister I am afraid.

Exactly. Their motive is all wrong.

Something about the police theory and this case is not sitting right with me.

Who in their right mind would get rid of the body of an 3 year old child and then be an active part of a 10 year campaign to find him for the purposes of keeping his sister in her custody?

Did she really care so little for that little boy and so much for his sister that she needed her to be with her at any cost?

Did she need that little girl so much that she was willing to risk her own future and career outcomes and reputation just to keep her at all costs?

How can you love one child so much more than another? It seems illogical and to me it feels all wrong.

 

[31550]

Maybe she was waving to get his attention. Creating her own alibis.

And again that is more evidence that the drive was not looking for William. Otherwise flag down the truckie and ask for help.

 

[truecrimepath]

I can’t accept that the photos were taken at 9:37 because there’s been no confirmation from police or the coroner either way. Hopefully it is cleared up.

I don’t believe the photos needed to be taken earlier in order for FM to launch her cover up.

And I agree, it seems an unnecessary and convoluted thing to do.

I disagree that if they did manipulate the time that it’s a slam dunk for the police. Although it would be for me.

If that’s all the evidence they had, it wouldn’t be enough.

Defence would no doubt bring in their own experts to testify that it hadn’t been manipulated.

FM could claim it was a genuine error or FGM must have done it. That there were similar photos taken that day at around 9:30. That they had a routine at FGM’s of playing on the deck and that William wore his Spiderman costume everywhere so it all just blended in to one.

The fosters have money so we know they would get the very best defence lawyers.

I think if it happened today the science would pick it up with great accuracy. But ten years ago, less so.

The prosecution would have to present evidence that it’s 100% certain it was manipulated and that it was manipulated by the fosters and no one else, in order for it to be admissible.

The importance of the 9.37 photos is that it changes the possible time frame of what happened to WT. The last independent sighting is then moved back to 9.40 at McDonalds. That's why the police need to examine these photos very carefully and with the best experts. I am afraid they just got some IT person to look at the photos who confirmed an electronic time. (the least reliable aspect of photos imho. Digital media is just not reliable.

The other real issue imho is participants saving face. This includes counsel, police and potentially the Coroner. It is highly embarrassing if those photos were not looked at forensically as they should have been really early on. How many people have been maligned in this process for the investigators not doing their job properly. I discussed this with an ex police officer yesterday and he said they definitely would cover up something that would make them look foolish.

 

[Wallace52]

Before the proceedings began on Tuesday morning, counsel assisting the court Gerard Craddock SC told the court that as the foster mother was leaving court on Monday, “somebody started hurling abuse at her”.

The court was also told that it’s believed that the person also used the female foster carer’s name.

The woman cannot be named or publicly identified due to a non-publication order and any breach could represent contempt of court.

“Obviously, there’s no place for that in suitable society at all,” Mr Craddock said.


https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...l/news-story/eb5c071c9321baa4b1738ebfa186a44f


If they’re in contempt of court, find them in contempt.

If not, move on.

 

[Kurve]

We had this discussion. I believe they cannot go back in time that far. I know others are more optimistic.

Records should be kept generally for ten years and this software was around when Cleo Smith was taken in 2021. So, seven years.

You're probably right though if I'm still somewhat optimistic. The truck driver might have logs as well to indicate what time he was on Batar Creek Road.

 

[Awakening]

100 percent.

Its not just L’s memory of that fateful day, it’s all the days after that where she possibly overheard conversations about what really happened to William.

 

[phonics_mnemonics]

Its not just L’s memory of that fateful day, it’s all the days after that where she possibly overheard conversations about what really happened to William.

not just days but years. I doubt they would have been able to keep up a charade around her at home 24/7 for years before she was removed from their home.

 

[Awakening]

Exactly. Their motive is all wrong.

Something about the police theory and this case is not sitting right with me.

Who in their right mind would get rid of the body of an 3 year old child and then be an active part of a 10 year campaign to find him for the purposes of keeping his sister in her custody?

Did she really care so little for that little boy and so much for his sister that she needed her to be with her at any cost?

Did she need that little girl so much that she was willing to risk her own future and career outcomes and reputation just to keep her at all costs?

How can you love one child so much more than another? It seems illogical and to me it feels all wrong.

I have zero evidence of this, so my opinion only, but I believe FM deliberately killed William in a fit of rage.

I think she was already at her wits end with William well before arriving in Kendall.

Normally FF was around to deal with William and the FGM, who FM had a difficult relationship with.

I imagine this day it was all too much. No FF to help. William being difficult and FGM critical of FM and making passive aggressive remarks and FM lost it.

 

[Awakening]

Maybe she was waving to get his attention. Creating her own alibis.

I don’t believe so, because she only ever mentioned this encounter once at the walkthrough interview and never again.

Why mention it at the walkthrough interview? Because that occurred at the same time that police announced they were setting up a road block to question all drivers going in and out of Kendall in case they had witnessed anything suspicious.

I think she only revealed it out of fear they would come across the truck driver.

When they didn’t, she never mentioned it again. Not her police statement, not in any appeals, not on the Where’s William page, not in any media interviews. Although I suspect it may have been mentioned in the podcast that was subpoenaed.

It seems in all the details FM provided, the detail about the truck driver seeing her was missed by police and they never questioned her on it or tried to find the truck driver or make a public appeal for him to come forward.

 

[truecrimepath]

I have zero evidence of this, so my opinion only, but I believe FM deliberately killed William in a fit of rage.

I think she was already at her wits end with William well before arriving in Kendall.

Normally FF was around to deal with William and the FGM, who FM had a difficult relationship with.

I imagine this day it was all too much. No FF to help. William being difficult and FGM critical of FM and making passive aggressive remarks and FM lost it.

I think there is a possibility that she lost her temper and hit him potentially causing his death. We have evidence of that sort of behaviour with the FD. I don't think she deliberately killed him.

 

[31550]

I don’t believe so, because she only ever mentioned this encounter once at the walkthrough interview and never again.

Why mention it at the walkthrough interview? Because that occurred at the same time that police announced they were setting up a road block to question all drivers going in and out of Kendall in case they had witnessed anything suspicious.

I think she only revealed it out of fear they would come across the truck driver.

When they didn’t, she never mentioned it again. Not her police statement, not in any appeals, not on the Where’s William page, not in any media interviews. Although I suspect it may have been mentioned in the podcast that was subpoenaed.

It seems in all the details FM provided, the detail about the truck driver seeing her was missed by police and they never questioned her on it or tried to find the truck driver or make a public appeal for him to come forward.

Agree. The mention of the drive was either a slip-up, or was because FM may have been asked about, or alerted to the warm car bonnet, or as you suggest, the discussion of road blocks etc. It may also be deliberately delayed evidence given AFTER FM was sure the body was relocated from its initial location near the riding school to a safer permanent location - no harm in admitting she drove on BCR if she knows William is no longer there.