Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[truecrimepath]

not just days but years. I doubt they would have been able to keep up a charade around her at home 24/7 for years before she was removed from their home.

There may have never been another conversation in front of her.

 

[31550]

There may have never been another conversation in front of her.

That in itself would be suspicious IMO. Why would you never discuss the circumstances of William's disappearance with his biological sister? She has a perfect right to know everything that happened. If she was too young to understand at 4, then she should certainly have been told as she grew older.

 

[phonics_mnemonics]

That in itself would be suspicious IMO. Why would you never discuss the circumstances of William's disappearance with his biological sister? She has a perfect right to know everything that happened. If she was too young to understand at 4, then she should certainly have been told as she grew older.

Agreed, honestly if they never ever wanted to talk about it with his own sister who was there on the day that's also a red flag IMO. I think it's really sus that the assault that saw her eventually removed from them was around the age she'd be getting bolder and capable enough of speaking out. I'd love to hear from her, but I know she's still a child, still under laws that obfuscate her identity, and it might be years before she chooses to go public - if ever.

 

[LRitz]

Do we really need to back up the truck and run over Spedding again? He's been exonerated, and compensated for malicious prosecution. He has nothing to do with this case.

Understandable that police investigate BS. He could be possibly returning to the house to finish the repairs. (And has a previous historical allegation). All just a coincidence - or was it?

But could this is all be organised by FGM. Ok, will go out on a limb, and yes there are zebras coming your way. What about the spiderman toy in his car. What if FGM planted the spiderman doll under the passenger seat of his van on Tuesday while he is distracted with fixing the washing machine. He would not have noticed. Were there any fingerprints of the spiderman, or did they check? You may think it is fanciful but you have to admit that IF this was part of the FP's plan to set up BS a suspect, it did work. Sneaky.

The spiderman toy was no coincidence. Again all of the above IMO.
Maybe my new avatar should have been a zebra.

 

[Kurve]

Let's stick to the discussion of information we receive through this current inquiry. At this stage, the veracity of the Spiderman images are not in question and the former FD doesn't appear to be on the witness list.

Thanks.

 

[Awakening]

The importance of the 9.37 photos is that it changes the possible time frame of what happened to WT. The last independent sighting is then moved back to 9.40 at McDonalds. That's why the police need to examine these photos very carefully and with the best experts. I am afraid they just got some IT person to look at the photos who confirmed an electronic time. (the least reliable aspect of photos imho. Digital media is just not reliable.

The other real issue imho is participants saving face. This includes counsel, police and potentially the Coroner. It is highly embarrassing if those photos were not looked at forensically as they should have been really early on. How many people have been maligned in this process for the investigators not doing their job properly. I discussed this with an ex police officer yesterday and he said they definitely would cover up something that would make them look foolish.

Whilst I think the photos most likely weren’t manipulated, I’m certainly not convinced.

That’s why I appreciate well thought out arguments like yours.

 

[Awakening]

Understandable that police investigate BS. He could be possibly returning to the house to finish the repairs. (And has a previous historical allegation). All just a coincidence - or was it?

But could this is all be organised by FGM. Ok, will go out on a limb, and yes there are zebras coming your way. What about the spiderman toy in his car. What if FGM planted the spiderman doll under the passenger seat of his van on Tuesday while he is distracted with fixing the washing machine. He would not have noticed. Were there any fingerprints of the spiderman, or did they check? You may think it is fanciful but you have to admit that IF this was part of the FP's plan to set up BS a suspect, it did work. Sneaky.

The spiderman toy was no coincidence. Again all of the above IMO.
Maybe my new avatar should have been a zebra.

Anything’s possible, but I think very unlikely.

I obviously don’t know FGM, but she strikes me as a sticker for the rules and highly values her reputation in the community.

Therefore, I can’t imagine her doing something like you’ve suggested, but I can imagine her remaining silent if she thought that protected her reputation.

 

[LRitz]

Why did you say this? I am inferring the persecution of Bill Spedding was malicious. I think the phone call to him that morning was also a red flag.

TCP, there has been previous discussion regarding phone call to BS.
The phone call was around 9:00, so this is the earliest time to ring in business hours, without looking suspicious IMO. There was no need, IMO, to call BS. He was waiting for the part, he knew the FGM wanted her machine fixed, but then I guess every customer thinks they are a priority. IMO, it was possible that FM wanted to make sure BS was not coming that morning. Imagine if he had the spare part and turned up unannounced at 9:37:29. Would have been interesting.

FGM in her walkthrough says there were no phone calls. She repeats "no" seven times. She does not say maybe or I can't recall. IMO she would have been aware of FM making a phone call around the time they allegedly are all in the kitchen having breakfast. FM must have got his number from somewhere. Others in posts thought it was just coincidence.

 

[31550]

TCP, there has been previous discussion regarding phone call to BS.
The phone call was around 9:00, so this is the earliest time to ring in business hours, without looking suspicious IMO. There was no need, IMO, to call BS. He was waiting for the part, he knew the FGM wanted her machine fixed, but then I guess every customer thinks they are a priority. IMO, it was possible that FM wanted to make sure BS was not coming that morning. Imagine if he had the spare part and turned up unannounced at 9:37:29. Would have been interesting.

FGM in her walkthrough says there were no phone calls. She repeats "no" seven times. She does not say maybe or I can't recall. IMO she would have been aware of FM making a phone call around the time they allegedly are all in the kitchen having breakfast. FM must have got his number from somewhere. Others in posts thought it was just coincidence.

 

[Earls Smother]

Perhaps but we're told the dogs got absolutely no scent of him off the property.

He still would have been at the edge of the property, just the side edge rather than the front.

I keep looking at how that house is sited, there's windows right the way around, a balcony that takes in the width of the house and one side and overlooks the road, anybody stealing a child as the most serious of offences, would surely be aware of the risk of being seen.

Hugely high risk of being seen, but the trees help more on that side IMO. For a random abduction, the offender needs everything to fall their way. If it does, it then depends on those within the house having watertight alibis, to effectively confirm that abduction is all that's left. In this case, they don't.

The dingo theory wasn't accepted initially, so Lindy got locked up. If Cleo hadn't been found, the parents would have been still in the gun. Bung disappeared equally as mysteriously as William, but the parents were saved from years of further torment, by a fortuitous sighting by 1 neighbour.

 

[Kurve]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who appear more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

 

[truecrimepath]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who are more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

Saving face again is more important to all of them.

 

[31550]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who are more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

Another one trying to control the narrative, instead of just reporting the facts.
"Journalism" is well and truly dead.

 

[Earls Smother]

There was a statement from police that they believed she threw something out the car window.

Well where is it then? They believe things and have theories, but no evidence to back it up.

Then there is FMs own statement that she had her head out the window looking for William and the truck driver mistakenly believed she was waving at him.

She’s already on the front foot discrediting the truck driver.

None of that is unreasonable IMO. She'd need the window down to call his name.

She only mentions the truck driver once - in the walk through interview - and never mentions the encounter again.

Which strikes me as very odd because for all she knew, he had picked up William along the very road she was looking for him on.

It's on record as having occurred. The second point is valid and you would think she would have asked the driver if he had seen anything if it was practical.

There was these detailed descriptions of the two vehicles but no details on the truck driver or appeals by the FM for him to come forward.

My guess is that the truck driver saw something fairly suspicious for it to grab his attention. When you are on the road a lot you seen random things fairly frequently.

We'll find out what he saw, but I think the police case will need a lot more than just seeing her driving.

 

[LRitz]

There was a statement from police that they believed she threw something out the car window.

Then there is FMs own statement that she had her head out the window looking for William and the truck driver mistakenly believed she was waving at him.

She’s already on the front foot discrediting the truck driver.

She only mentions the truck driver once - in the walk through interview - and never mentions the encounter again.

Which strikes me as very odd because for all she knew, he had picked up William along the very road she was looking for him on.

There was these detailed descriptions of the two vehicles but no details on the truck driver or appeals by the FM for him to come forward.

My guess is that the truck driver saw something fairly suspicious for it to grab his attention. When you are on the road a lot you seen random things fairly frequently.

So what-if: What if FM around 10:00, sees something at the house that is incriminating. She does not want to hide it in the house. She can not throw it in the garbage as this is likely to be searched. She can not dispose of in the garden or surrounds because the search for William will be going over the area very carefully looking for any minute evidence. So she turns right on to Batar Creek away from houses and those pesky neighbours and far enough away from the search party area. She has to be back at the house by 10:30 for the planned return of the FF.

What did she throw ( if she did throw something). It could not be shoes or clothing that could easily be seen. Must be something small, IMO.

 

[Wallace52]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who appear more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

I agree, this balcony accident theory is really growing legs.

For those interested, I have clipped some screen grabs of the foster parents wearing their Where’s William ribbons. These photos are from circa Sept/Oct 2023 at the inquest directions hearing.

 

[LRitz]

Re: "No reason for any non-resident cars to be there, besides the postie who has been ruled out."

The vacant lot across the road from FGM's was for sale at the time: Wayback (it was previously called "Lot 43" but now I think it's "Number 49" and it's been cleared and there's a house on it). Anyone could have driven in to see where the lot was and take a look, and when leaving they might have turned around in front of any of the nearby houses or in their driveways, or by doing a U-turn where the bitumen runs out (near Nos 51 & 52 or No.43).

Also re the postie: what if she couldn't deliver everything that day because her run was unusually early? Someone else might have come along later to deliver the remaining post items or parcels. Jubelin's book said he didn't even want to investigate her at first, so I'm not confident the police have eliminated the possibility of a later unofficial delivery run. MOO

Also: anyone in a 4WD vehicle driving through to Kendall State Forest. Paul S said he saw or heard a noisy 4WD go that way earlier in the week. Reporters keep saying that Benaroon Drive was a dead-end street but on Google Street View the signpost for Benaroon Drive looks to be the only one along the southern part of Batar Creek Road which does not say "no through road".

But you would think this person would come forward.

"Paul S said he saw or heard a noisy 4WD go that way earlier in the week."

Really! Just a thought..... Could FF have visited the area in his new 4WD in the weeks before? Could be up and back in a day. (Not necessarily the car PS saw.) Have a bit of a drive through the state forest to find a nice quiet spot that is good for digging.

 

[Wallace52]

Lia Harris here, who says 'As we heard in court this morning, there is no suggestion the FM is responsible and she has always denied any involvement of what happened to her foster son".

Well, yeh there is the suggestion the FM is responsible or we wouldn't be sitting here discussing it through another tranche. What is it with all these people including the press, who appear more invested in protecting their own positions of backing the FM, than they are in getting to the truth?

There is a suggestion that the FM was involved. This whole week thus far is based around a suggestion that the FM might be responsible.

Also, you would think for a TV news reporter, Ms. Harris would have figured out a way to incorporate some tone and prosody into her speech patterns.

 

[Lady O]

There is a suggestion that the FM was involved. This whole week thus far is based around a suggestion that the FM might be responsible.

Also, you would think for a TV news reporter, Ms. Harris would have figured out a way to incorporate some tone and prosody into her speech patterns.

I assumed she meant that there is no suggestion that FM is responsible for his death.

 

[Awakening]

“Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/william-tyrrell-inquest-boy-seen-in-car-day-of-abduction-082631969.html

“The public would never hear whether the police had ruled out the postie. Presumably, it would be simple enough to check with the post office which driver (in which vehicle) was on duty that day.

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Neighbour Peter Crabb said he didn’t see any cars parked on the street either, not when he and his wife left and not when they returned home at about 9.30 am.

A heart scare had prompted Peter to add more exercise into his daily routine. So every morning, rain or shine, he and his wife, Sharelle, drove
to North Haven for a brisk walk along the riverside bike path.

Their walk took at least an hour, putting their departure from home at around 8.00 to 8.30.”

From Searching for Spiderman, Ally Chumley.

 

[Kurve]

He still would have been at the edge of the property, just the side edge rather than the front.



Hugely high risk of being seen, but the trees help more on that side IMO. For a random abduction, the offender needs everything to fall their way. If it does, it then depends on those within the house having watertight alibis, to effectively confirm that abduction is all that's left. In this case, they don't.

The dingo theory wasn't accepted initially, so Lindy got locked up. If Cleo hadn't been found, the parents would have been still in the gun. Bung disappeared equally as mysteriously as William, but the parents were saved from years of further torment, by a fortuitous sighting by 1 neighbour.

I'm not sure the cases are comparable, I always knew Lindy was telling the truth in that the dingo took Azaria but we're a long way forward from there.

Bung was a young woman, on her way to school on her own in the suburbs. Not a three year old on a bush block in a dead end street and in the care of two adults.

I think the parents were cleared quite quickly in the Cleo case as the cops found evidence of stranger footprints around the tent, tampering with the zipper, a couple of other things I can't recall but there was also witness to a car leaving the campgrounds early hours of the morning travelling fast. There was also a history of thieving across the grounds.

If I agree the cops are going to need more than we've seen yet to lay charges.

 

[Kurve]

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Didn't we read that the car the Crabbes heard has never been identified?

 

[LRitz]

“Sharelle and Peter Crabb said they were on their back verandah when heard the car about 10.05am, the inquest was told.”

https://au.news.yahoo.com/william-tyrrell-inquest-boy-seen-in-car-day-of-abduction-082631969.html

“The public would never hear whether the police had ruled out the postie. Presumably, it would be simple enough to check with the post office which driver (in which vehicle) was on duty that day.

Actually, I did some digging and discovered that the postal worker - a woman - had been in Benaroon Drive about ten that morning. We can’t rule out the possibility
that it was the postal worker the Crabbs heard.

Neighbour Peter Crabb said he didn’t see any cars parked on the street either, not when he and his wife left and not when they returned home at about 9.30 am.

A heart scare had prompted Peter to add more exercise into his daily routine. So every morning, rain or shine, he and his wife, Sharelle, drove
to North Haven for a brisk walk along the riverside bike path.

Their walk took at least an hour, putting their departure from home at around 8.00 to 8.30.”

From Searching for Spiderman, Ally Chumley.

As noted before it would have been well known those neighbours would be out that morning for their exercise at the usual time, Especially by the FGM across the road. Gives a time slot for a sneaky plan. Everyone knew the other house next door was empty.

 

[31550]

But you would think this person would come forward.

"Paul S said he saw or heard a noisy 4WD go that way earlier in the week."

Really! Just a thought..... Could FF have visited the area in his new 4WD in the weeks before? Could be up and back in a day. (Not necessarily the car PS saw.) Have a bit of a drive through the state forest to find a nice quiet spot that is good for digging.

You are suggesting William's demise was planned. Why not take him into the bush, dump him down a mineshaft and say he wandered off and got lost?

 

[Earls Smother]

I'm not sure the cases are comparable, I always knew Lindy was telling the truth in that the dingo took Azaria but we're a long way forward from there.

Bung was a young woman, on her way to school on her own in the suburbs. Not a three year old on a bush block in a dead end street and in the care of two adults.

I think the parents were cleared quite quickly in the Cleo case as the cops found evidence of stranger footprints around the tent, tampering with the zipper, a couple of other things I can't recall but there was also witness to a car leaving the campgrounds early hours of the morning travelling fast. There was also a history of thieving across the grounds.

If I agree the cops are going to need more than we've seen yet to lay charges.

Agree, all cases are different.

The point is, the parent/s by default will always remain "likely", in lieu of no obvious alternative. A case that turns back to the "likely" after a number of years, just seems convenient for the police. Surely GJ had enough experience to see the early signs if they were there?

They appear to have no evidence FM did it and no evidence of an abduction. So they've gone down the "historically more likely" route to save public face, rather than admit they have no ****ing idea which one it is.