Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[gymjam]

Just heard prime morning show common sedative Phenergan given to children as a sedative can cause hallucinations and intellectual delay.

Oh my goodness any news about how long this has been known? Is it now withdrawn?

Was this found as a result of that woman's arrest this week who is alleged to have drugged her infant with various liquids?

Thankyou for posting this information!

 

[Angry Red Bull]

This is getting tiresome. Who is GO?

Please go back and edit your posts to reflect the full name or surname of GO.

GO has been a long term abbreviation for Geoff Owen
So too RP for Ray Porter
Then RC for Ronald Chapman

It speeds up the thread. Personally I don't see any harm in it especially when the person has been mentioned several hundred times and the abbreviation is their initials. Context usually is the giveaway for me anyway if I don't know.

But you are the mod

 

[31550]

GO has been a long term abbreviation for Geoff Owen
So too RP for Ray Porter
Then RC for Ronald Chapman

It speeds up the thread. Personally I don't see any harm in it especially when the person has been mentioned several hundred times and the abbreviation is their initials. Context usually is the giveaway for me anyway if I don't know.

But you are the mod

I thought at some stage we were not allowed to name some people in full as they were POIs, so initials were used?

 

[js47]

Oh my goodness any news about how long this has been known? Is it now withdrawn?

Was this found as a result of that woman's arrest this week who is alleged to have drugged her infant with various liquids?

Thankyou for posting this information!

No time frame but I have found these warnings have been known for a while maybe tied to the baby’s death as they mentioned that also.

 

[Awakening]

I don’t find anything unusual about FF needing his meds.

I’m assuming they were an SSRI (antidepressant) and from personal experience a delay risks a common withdrawal symptom - brain zaps. It’s quite uncomfortable.

I can’t see why they’d need to give FF’s meds to William. Even if he was getting something like valium.

To sedate a child there’s Benadryl, antihistamines, any number of over the counter things.

3 year olds don’t tend to swallow tablets. Most adult tablets are difficult to crush and very bitter tasting so can’t easily be hidden in oj.

Reminds me of a story where my brothers girlfriend at the time, was a daycare worker and she had a set of parents who would put Benadryl in their toddlers bottles.

 

[Awakening]

I thought at some stage we were not allowed to name some people in full as they were POIs, so initials were used?

It annoys me that all these innocent people can be named in full and not the fosters.

 

[31550]

It's all speculative, but the last page or so of threads have suggested multiple reasons why if William had died at FGM house, a swift decision to conceal the body might have been made:

• so that the fosters would not lose William's sister (this supposedly is the police theory, but makes little sense - why would they lose her if William's death was a genuine accident?)
• to prevent an autopsy which might reveal evidence of ongoing physical or sexual abuse
• to prevent toxicology analysis which might reveal drug or substance abuse or deliberate poisoning
• to conceal the true cause of death which may have been obviously non-accidental (choking, stabbing, blunt force trauma, gunshot,...)

Any of these are possible IMO. I don't know why it is assumed William's death was accidental. Just because there was a high balcony, doesn't mean he fell from it.

 

[gymjam]

I’m just wondering.. around the urgency of the FF needing to have his script filled “they just help me, um, relax”….. Maybe the FF was getting a script filled that day for William. Like, maybe they were giving W some of the FF meds.

After reading about his collapse on the night of the 12th it crossed my mind ... that did he overdose himself intentionally or accidentally? Was he taken to hospital or an emergency? Did he have his stomach pumped? Were the number of pills in the med containers counted to ascertain how many were missing from what he had collected at Khodary Pharmacy Lakewood at 10.19 on 12th?

I have read comment over the years that William may have consumed med tabs thinking they we lollies? If FF had them stored in the same room where he and William had slept it could be a possibility.

Also FM talked of Wiliam getting toys that fostergrandmother had stored in the bedroom cupboard in room FM and other child had slept in. Were meds placed in that room?

Were meds they came with placed on the coffee table in family room or dining table or bathroom vanity basin surround or kitchen bench top after they arrived at 9pmish on 11th?

 

[31550]

After reading about his collapse on the night of the 12th it crossed my mind ... that did he overdose himself intentionally or accidentally? Was he taken to hospital or an emergency? Did he have his stomach pumped? Were the number of pills in the med containers counted to ascertain how many were missing from what he had collected at Khodary Pharmacy Lakewood at 10.19 on 12th?

I have read comment over the years that William may have consumed med tabs thinking they we lollies? If FF had them stored in the same room where he and William had slept it could be a possibility.

Also FM talked of Wiliam getting toys that fostergrandmother had stored in the bedroom cupboard in room FM and other child had slept in. Were meds placed in that room?

Were meds they came with placed on the coffee table in family room or dining table or bathroom vanity basin surround or kitchen bench top after they arrived at 9pmish on 11th?

Valid questions but if a child self-medicated they are highly unlikely to die instantly - more likely to stop taking the pills when they realise they aren't lollies or pass out or be violently ill before dropping dead. In which case any normal parent would find them and attempt resuscitation or dial 000, not drive them away and dump them. IMO

 

[js47]

Did William have an actual album of information for his future done by the FM or was it digital?
It would be very interesting to have a look at it.
A hard copy cannot be manipulated.

 

[js47]

After reading about his collapse on the night of the 12th it crossed my mind ... that did he overdose himself intentionally or accidentally? Was he taken to hospital or an emergency? Did he have his stomach pumped? Were the number of pills in the med containers counted to ascertain how many were missing from what he had collected at Khodary Pharmacy Lakewood at 10.19 on 12th?

I have read comment over the years that William may have consumed med tabs thinking they we lollies? If FF had them stored in the same room where he and William had slept it could be a possibility.

Also FM talked of Wiliam getting toys that fostergrandmother had stored in the bedroom cupboard in room FM and other child had slept in. Were meds placed in that room?

Were meds they came with placed on the coffee table in family room or dining table or bathroom vanity basin surround or kitchen bench top after they arrived at 9pmish on 11th?

He would not have been taken to Port Macquarie or Wauchope hospital unless it was life threatening as it is a long way all hour round trip time at the hospital the FGM would have had to pick him up as the kids would have been asleep. He was up the next morning searching before the plods arrived.
I think he had a panick attack (because he found out what really happened) and hyperventilated. Felt dizzy wine on top of medications. Bet it was FGM called them she probably had enough.

 

[js47]

Marble floors?
Insanity with William falling over to the point they were concerned about it.

 

[gymjam]

It's all speculative, but the last page or so of threads have suggested multiple reasons why if William had died at FGM house, a swift decision to conceal the body might have been made:

• so that the fosters would not lose William's sister (this supposedly is the police theory, but makes little sense - why would they lose her if William's death was a genuine accident?)
• to prevent an autopsy which might reveal evidence of ongoing physical or sexual abuse
• to prevent toxicology analysis which might reveal drug or substance abuse or deliberate poisoning
• to conceal the true cause of death which may have been obviously non-accidental (choking, stabbing, blunt force trauma, gunshot,...)

Any of these are possible IMO. I don't know why it is assumed William's death was accidental. Just because there was a high balcony, doesn't mean he fell from it.

Agree. In answer to the ? you pose about why would she take a decision to hide Wiliam's body and I add ... to push out her abduction theory.

The Coroner would have been involved if William's body was found in situ. An inquest would have been held required in law in NSW when a child in care dies. No way the Coroner would not be involved.

There could have been a possibility of a negligence finding and the possibility of legal charges laid.

Verandah gate auto locking mechanism not installed. Gate height below Oz standards? Verandah Furniture placement?Childproofing?

Was high balcony railing height and design erected to Oz standards? Had DOC or Young Hope carried out their legal obligation to inspect the property to ensure safety requirements were satisfactory? Was there ever a change required that was not fullfilled?

Coroner Grahame visited the 48 Benaoon scene in 2018...media photos ... with lead detectives and perhaps safety standard representatives were also present in 2018. Or a certified safety consultant had been requested to provide a full report on the whole property. The Coroner looks at everything.

We dont know what Young Hope staff or DOC staff had previously discovered during household safety checks that meds were not stored securely and a warning had been issued?

Yes I believe if William's body had been left in situ and therd was no stranger abduction identified, the other child would have been removed immediately IMO. And a possibility then existed the child later returned to their care .... but that decision that would have been based upon and depend on what the Coroner included in their findings.

 

[js47]

Never forget these parents solve what they perceive children’s defiance with violence.
That is why I question an accident or abduction scenario.
Allegedly William in the ‘happy family’
Would not let FM sleep in
Probably demanding yogurt
Fighting over toys
Throwing dice
Annoying FGM
Annoying the FF before his business call

 

[Kurve]

GO has been a long term abbreviation for Geoff Owen
So too RP for Ray Porter
Then RC for Ronald Chapman

It speeds up the thread. Personally I don't see any harm in it especially when the person has been mentioned several hundred times and the abbreviation is their initials. Context usually is the giveaway for me anyway if I don't know.

But you are the mod

That would be fine if you were in a private group chat.

 

[gymjam]

He would not have been taken to Port Macquarie or Wauchope hospital unless it was life threatening as it is a long way all hour round trip time at the hospital the FGM would have had to pick him up as the kids would have been asleep. He was up the next morning searching before the plods arrived.
I think he had a panick attack (because he found out what really happened) and hyperventilated. Felt dizzy wine on top of medications. Bet it was FGM called them she probably had enough.

I understand an ambulance attended. Do you know of any media reports please?

Was there a doctor on call in the general area say to laurieton location? I personally think he may have overdosed. Wasnt nsw police Wendy Hudson present when he collapsed?

 

[gymjam]

Never forget these parents solve what they perceive children’s defiance with violence.
That is why I question an accident or abduction scenario.
Allegedly William in the ‘happy family’
Would not let FM sleep in
Probably demanding yogurt
Fighting over toys
Throwing dice
Annoying FGM
Annoying the FF before his business call

The term violence comes with a whole bunch of legal contexts that may not be relative to this case or the FF or FM.

 

[Tommyz]

I’m not sure how this was recorded but hopefully as discreetly as possible.
Trying to get my head around why the truck driver was called to give evidence. We know he was in the area he’s said he saw three cars and a blonde lady.

That's a damn good question.

 

[Lady O]

How confused the child must have been. What an awful nightmare to live a life through. Even everything about your real identity and your real bioligical parents stripped away even your self stripped away until there was nothing left but darling children hiding under tables, too afraid to sleep,kicking and biting, cutting hair of kinder mates to change their appearance like they were changed, throwing things, begging not to be hurt anymore, crying out for help, being locked outside because you dared as a 2yo to soil a nappy, being sworn at and hit and kicked and bruised ... oh the horse did that, and told to sit on a marble floor and threatened if you soiled the floor your face would be rubbed in it ... all because you were denied toilet relief whilst sitting out a punishment session.

This is a mummy dearest horror story!

Geez the children were even forced by these 2 wonderful caring loving foster carers to call their real biological mother 'biomum' and father 'biodad' as reported in the media. tThe fister carers must be so proud they are too scared to reveal themselves or is it really they are too embarrased to show their own real identity.it will happen one day and more stories may finally see the very bright light of day.

Its damn crazy ... did someone push the big red button and say step into my wonderful world of our nutty farm experiment?

If this story was made into a true story movie script it would have to be placed in the 'horror genre' for sure. Who would be chosen to play the make believers?

THIS!! Nailed it.

 

[Lady O]

Oh my goodness any news about how long this has been known? Is it now withdrawn?

Was this found as a result of that woman's arrest this week who is alleged to have drugged her infant with various liquids?

Thankyou for posting this information!

Phenergen was great for fussy kids, to help them sleep. I wonder how it interracted with ADHD meds?

 

[Lady O]

That would be fine if you were in a private group chat.

We've used GO & FA in many posts when Owen and Abbott were flavour of the month.

 

[gymjam]

Hold on all these decisions .
They knew William for two and a half years
They worked
William was in day care
Now I find out they spent time designing the dream home
So WHEN did they spend time with William?
If William fell over and is allegedly could not get back up how was he going to climb stairs?
No wonder he could not get back up if he fell of the veranda

The house photos were publicly displayed online when the property was placed on the market in 2020.

Absolutely stunning showpiece.

 

[Kurve]

We've used GO & FA in many posts when Owen and Abbott were flavour of the month.

Posters need to pay attention to the mods directions because I have made more than one request.

 

[gymjam]

Phenergen was great for fussy kids, to help them sleep. I wonder how it interracted with ADHD meds?

To use a medication for an alternative use other than what is registered for ie the official printed instruction printed on the label or pamphlet available from a pharmacy is illegal!

Medications or treatments when used in any way other than official advice can cause immediate major health issues that at times may include major physical and mental incapacities, organ failure at times permanent and non treatable or curable and at times DEATH!

Edited to add Footnote: https://raisingchildren.net.au/toddlers/sleep/sleep-problems/sleep-medicines

This link includes the following information:

The Therapeutic Goods Administration has not approved melatonin for use by typically developing children. But if your child is aged over 2 years, is autistic or has attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) or low vision or blindness, and also has persistent sleep problems or trouble falling asleep and waking up in the morning, your child’s doctor might prescribe melatonin.

If your child is taking melatonin, they need to be settled and ready for bed before having their nightly dose. This is because melatonin usually works within 30-60 minutes. You shouldn’t give melatonin to your child except under direct medical advice and supervision.

Sedative medicines​

Sedative medicines include Vallergan and Phenergan. Your child should take sedative medicines only under the supervision of your doctor.

These medicines aren’t recommended for children aged under 2 years. They can cause side effects like irritability, hyperactivity, challenging behaviour and daytime drowsiness in some children.

Sedative medicines are very unlikely to help with your child’s sleep problems unless your child uses them in combination with strategies focused on their bedtime routine.

Please do not limit you reading of advice provided in the above link to what I have posted.

 

[31550]

I understand an ambulance attended. Do you know of any media reports please?

Was there a doctor on call in the general area say to laurieton location? I personally think he may have overdosed. Wasnt nsw police Wendy Hudson present when he collapsed?

According to Wendy's notes she arrived at the house when the ambulance was already there. So she would not have witnessed whatever caused the ambulance to be called.