Current Disappearance of 3yo William Tyrrell Pt 2 * Coroners Inquiry CANCELLED!

[Kurve]

Continued from PART 1

Criminal charges:

• Apprehended Violence Orders on both (AVOs)
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster mother *Not Guilty
• Lying to the NSW Crime Commission on former foster father *Not Guilty
• 2 x charges of assault against a child on former foster mother *Guilty
• 1 x charge of assault against a child on former foster father *Not Guilty
• Stalking &/or Intimidation on both *Guilty
• Dummy bidding real estate fraud *Guilty

TIMELINE

Where's William Tyrrell? - The Ch 10 podcast (under Coroner's subpoena)

Operation Arkstone

Please type names out in full for those who are not covered by suppression orders.

For those covered by suppression orders, please use the following to indicate:

FM - Foster Mother
FF - Foster Father
FGM - Foster Grandmother
FD - Foster Daughter
FPs - Foster Parents

Up to you if you wish to refer to them as former fosters but please write it in full, strictly using the above. No deviations.

Other initials posters will use informally but should not are:

BCR - Batar Creek Road
FA - Frank Abbott
MW - Michelle White
SFR - Strike Force Rosann
AMS - Anne Maree Sharpley
CCR - Cobb and Co Road
GO - Geoff Owens
One even reduced bike riding to - BR
COG - Consciousness of guilt. Like WHO KNEW?

 

[31550]

Does anybody know that it was MM who died or is that just speculation?

I think we have to put 2 and 2 together here.

McInally lived at his parents' place at the time of William's disappearance. I think the is the same house where the dead man was found recently. McInally was called as a witness to the inquest. There were suggestions of alcohol abuse and more serious drug use. There was a disagreement between two friends about reporting seeing a speeding car on the day of William's disappearance - one party didn't want to report the incident, either because they were up to no good at the time, or because they were alcohol or drug affected, or just didn't want to. And yes, this was very close to where Chapman reported seeing speeding cars on the same day.

No idea if any of this has anything to do directly with William's case.

But it throws a bit of shade on the picture Ally Chumley paints of Kendall being a quaint, quiet, picturesque, and decent rural community in my opinion.

We know Kendall had more than its fair share of child sex offenders. There is a nearby jail, which also means there are many ex-offenders living nearby for the convenience of satisfying bail conditions. It is relatively cheap to live there so there are itinerant workers, and people subsisting on the dole and welfare payments. Lots of single men living alone. There is little in the way of entertainment, so it's not surprising that there is drug and alcohol abuse. On one particular day, there are multiple reports of speeding cars on gravel roads, but nobody thought this on its own was strange enough to report immediately to police? Makes me think maybe it's a common occurrence for single blokes to hoon around Kendall without it being considered unusual.

The other question, with so many 'dodgy' figures in Kendall, is whether the FM or FF have any regular connections to any of these people? FGM and her husband had lived there for 20+ years. FF went trail bike riding up there. FM had brothers who still lived in the area. Could any of these connections perhaps be involved in William's disappearance, or at least in the disposal of his body?

Further, I have previously suggested a possible scenario where FM quickly took William after an 'accident' at FGMs down to Batar Ck Rd in the hope of staging an accidental hit-and-run (expecting him to be seen). If a drug or alcohol-affected driver subsequently ran over William they may have panicked and concealed his body permanently, explaining why he's never been found.

Dodgy folk do not talk to cops, or co-operate with cops, or like to be seen doing so.

 

[CodyRose]

A article from the Guardian.

"In an earlier, separate court proceeding it was revealed that Sergeant Scott Jamieson told the foster mother during a police interview more than two years ago: “We know why, we know how, we know where he is.

“We aren’t guessing, we aren’t bluffing.

“We are saying we know what happened and why it happened and where [his body] is.”

But like so much else in the matter of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, the case appears far more complex. And the boy who has at times been everywhere is still nowhere to be found".

I guess with the Bluff, you can only try it once!.... Still no Body

If it wasn't the FM who took William away in a car maybe she doesn't know exactly where he is. IMO he left by car dead or alive. Dogs couldn't find any trace of him off the property.

 

[Sqotty from office works]

A article from the Guardian.

"In an earlier, separate court proceeding it was revealed that Sergeant Scott Jamieson told the foster mother during a police interview more than two years ago: “We know why, we know how, we know where he is.

“We aren’t guessing, we aren’t bluffing.

“We are saying we know what happened and why it happened and where [his body] is.”

But like so much else in the matter of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, the case appears far more complex. And the boy who has at times been everywhere is still nowhere to be found".

I guess with the Bluff, you can only try it once!.... Still no Body

Posted this before.
William goes without justice.
The ineptitude of the nsw police in this case is court worthy.

 

[Kurve]

Posted this before.
William goes without justice.
The ineptitude of the nsw police in this case is court worthy.

I'm prepared to back the cops this time because turning the focus on to the FM is a very big deal, we all know it. Imo there's no way they are pursuing her with absolutely nothing.

They've got something that goes towards her moving WT off the property. Whether it's enough to charge her, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[DropBearess]

I'm prepared to back the cops this time because turning the focus on to the FM is a very big deal, we all know it. Imo there's no way they are pursuing her with absolutely nothing.

They've got something that goes towards her moving WT off the property. Whether it's enough to charge her, we'll have to wait and see.

I totally agree. LE must certainly have something very solid. We need to look at the consequences of the Bill Spedding pursuit. His compensation was imo totally pathetic and inadequate. Had he been rich enough, this amount could have been tenfold with the right legal team.

Paul Savage, as far as we know, has not sought compensation for his ruined life. As far as l can see, the poor man was not savvy enough, not wealthy enough and totally lacked the advocacy necessary to fight for his rights.

Given all these inadequacies and ignorances, LE would surely be aware they need to get it right. These FCs have the power, legal teams and money to sue left right and centre, far beyond the $ any of us could imagine. They will win unless the case is watertight. Making a mistake could turn our justice system upside down with political consequences. We need to have faith, hard as it might be.

 

[LRitz]

I totally agree. LE must certainly have something very solid. We need to look at the consequences of the Bill Spedding pursuit. His compensation was imo totally pathetic and inadequate. Had he been rich enough, this amount could have been tenfold with the right legal team.

Paul Savage, as far as we know, has not sought compensation for his ruined life. As far as l can see, the poor man was not savvy enough, not wealthy enough and totally lacked the advocacy necessary to fight for his rights.

Given all these inadequacies and ignorances, LE would surely be aware they need to get it right. These FCs have the power, legal teams and money to sue left right and centre, far beyond the $ any of us could imagine. They will win unless the case is watertight. Making a mistake could turn our justice system upside down with political consequences. We need to have faith, hard as it might be.

Did the FGM suggest all these "suspects" to the police? Just as the FM saw suspicious cars in the street. Either way it took up a lot of time in the investigation chasing shadows.

 

[31550]

I'm prepared to back the cops this time because turning the focus on to the FM is a very big deal, we all know it. Imo there's no way they are pursuing her with absolutely nothing.

They've got something that goes towards her moving WT off the property. Whether it's enough to charge her, we'll have to wait and see.

The previous lead investigators certainly have a lot to answer for. Whether it was ineptitude, tunnel-vision, misdirection, or whatever remains to be disclosed.
As far as I am concerned the "jury is still out" on the current lead investgators. They have not produced (publicly) a single piece of evidence directly related to the case, which was not previously available, despite the $1M reward being in place and immense resources being consumed.
They have certainly turned the focus on the FM, but their tactics are questionable. They seem to have moved from an 'evidence-based' approach to a 'confession-based' approach.
In my view there is still a line of questioning with the FM which hasn't been fully pursued. Her accounts of events are inconsistent, and the timeline she has laid out is (in my opinion) chronologically impossible and does not align with other evidence. Why has this not been thrashed out? Even when she was brought before the 'almighty' NSWCC, the questions she was asked were 'vague and ambiguous' (according to the magistrate who heard the lying charges). If you are going to use the powers of the NSWCC, why not get to the bottom of the timeline?
Maybe the police are keeping their cards close to their chests, and maybe the spectre of the FM's PR company and possible defamation action hovers over them, but it seems to me the investigation is still incomplete after 9 years, and SFR have given up on an evidence-based approach and are pinning their hopes on some sort of confession. Time will tell.

 

[LRitz]

The previous lead investigators certainly have a lot to answer for. Whether it was ineptitude, tunnel-vision, misdirection, or whatever remains to be disclosed.
As far as I am concerned the "jury is still out" on the current lead investgators. They have not produced (publicly) a single piece of evidence directly related to the case, which was not previously available, despite the $1M reward being in place and immense resources being consumed.
They have certainly turned the focus on the FM, but their tactics are questionable. They seem to have moved from an 'evidence-based' approach to a 'confession-based' approach.
In my view there is still a line of questioning with the FM which hasn't been fully pursued. Her accounts of events are inconsistent, and the timeline she has laid out is (in my opinion) chronologically impossible and does not align with other evidence. Why has this not been thrashed out? Even when she was brought before the 'almighty' NSWCC, the questions she was asked were 'vague and ambiguous' (according to the magistrate who heard the lying charges). If you are going to use the powers of the NSWCC, why not get to the bottom of the timeline?
Maybe the police are keeping their cards close to their chests, and maybe the spectre of the FM's PR company and possible defamation action hovers over them, but it seems to me the investigation is still incomplete after 9 years, and SFR have given up on an evidence-based approach and are pinning their hopes on some sort of confession. Time will tell.

The focus is on FM. Leaves FF in the clear.
This could lead to tension between them.

 

[maggiethecat]

The focus is on FM. Leaves FF in the clear.
This could lead to tension between them.

By the sounds from the secret recordings , they have passed that point and are ready to implode

 

[Kurve]

Maybe the police are keeping their cards close to their chests, and maybe the spectre of the FM's PR company and possible defamation action hovers over them, but it seems to me the investigation is still incomplete after 9 years, and SFR have given up on an evidence-based approach and are pinning their hopes on some sort of confession. Time will tell.

With the Ben Roberts Smith defamation trial just recently concluded and the Lehrmann defamation trial in progress which seems to be going the same way, I hope either the fosters or the PR firm tries it on.

There's so much more information coming out.

 

[31550]

With the Ben Roberts Smith defamation trial just recently concluded and the Lehrmann defamation trial in progress which seems to be going the same way, I hope either the fosters or the PR firm tries it on.

There's so much more information coming out.

Yeah I don't think that either of those are analogous to the fosters' situation though.

BRS and BL launched defamation actions against the media based on reporting of their respective court cases.

The media are incapable of defaming the fosters because of the fosters' anonymity.

I was thinking about the action taken by Spedding against the NSW police. Current practices of SFR are like hitting FM with a feather-duster compared to how they went after Spedding and Savage. But if SFR continue to publicly insinuate FM guilt and are unable to substantiate their claims, they do leave themselves open to defamation action.

I do agree however - 'bring it on!', because that would provide a further opportunity for real evidence to emerge. I can't see how it can happen without their identities becoming public though.

 

[stormbird]

The name of the man who was allegedly shot in Batar Creek Road still hasn't been released, as far as I can see, and presumably the case has nothing to do with William's disappearance anyway. But who knows, and now a fourth person has been charged:

From NSW Police Force Latest News, 29 Nov 2023:

"Following further inquiries, a 53-year-old woman was arrested in Murray St, Port Macquarie, about 9:35am on Monday (27 November 2023).

She was taken to Port Macquarie Police Station, where she was charged with hinder investigation serious indictable offence and conceal serious indictable offence."

Latest News - NSW Police Public Site

 

[31550]

The name of the man who was allegedly shot in Batar Creek Road still hasn't been released, as far as I can see, and presumably the case has nothing to do with William's disappearance anyway. But who knows, and now a fourth person has been charged:

From NSW Police Force Latest News, 29 Nov 2023:

"Following further inquiries, a 53-year-old woman was arrested in Murray St, Port Macquarie, about 9:35am on Monday (27 November 2023).

She was taken to Port Macquarie Police Station, where she was charged with hinder investigation serious indictable offence and conceal serious indictable offence."

Latest News - NSW Police Public Site

The connection is that the shooting took place and the deceased man was found at the address lived in by a witness at the Inquest.

Fourth person now charged over alleged murder of Paul Davy in Kendall

The 53-year-old woman was arrested in Port Macquarie

www.portnews.com.au

The witness was McInally, who lived at the same house. Not sure of the connection to Davy, Willcockson and Hatzigeorgiou.

Edit: new article below ... seem like quality people

Love triangle twist in alleged shooting murder of tradie

A mid-north-coast tradie whose body was found at a house after an alleged shooting murder is linked to one of four people charged over his death via a mystery love triangle.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Awakening]

The connection is that the shooting took place and the deceased man was found at the address lived in by a witness at the Inquest.

Fourth person now charged over alleged murder of Paul Davy in Kendall

The 53-year-old woman was arrested in Port Macquarie

www.portnews.com.au

The witness was McInally, who lived at the same house. Not sure of the connection to Davy, Willcockson and Hatzigeorgiou.

Edit: new article below ... seem like quality people

Love triangle twist in alleged shooting murder of tradie

A mid-north-coast tradie whose body was found at a house after an alleged shooting murder is linked to one of four people charged over his death via a mystery love triangle.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I wonder if the fosters were connected to them in any way.

 

[Kurve]

I'll roll this thread over in to Part 2 tomorrow.

 

[DropBearess]

I was rummaging through some of my saved stuff today looking for something l didn't find.
What l did find though, was some info which may or may not have been mentioned here. Apologies if this has been posted before:-

FGM apparently had a regular male visitor to her home. He was a wealthy senior of similar age and was a scoutmaster for 45 years. He was also a pilot with a current licence. I have the guy's name but not sure where l sourced it.
Wasn't there an Airport between Kendall and Lakewood and would JS have passed it on the way? Was this ever raised by LE or at the inquest?

 

[shorsky]

I was rummaging through some of my saved stuff today looking for something l didn't find.
What l did find though, was some info which may or may not have been mentioned here. Apologies if this has been posted before:-

FGM apparently had a regular male visitor to her home. He was a wealthy senior of similar age and was a scoutmaster for 45 years. He was also a pilot with a current licence. I have the guy's name but not sure where l sourced it.
Wasn't there an Airport between Kendall and Lakewood and would JS have passed it on the way? Was this ever raised by LE or at the inquest?

This info of the ‘pilot frIend’ has come up previously on forums, but I don’t know how much credence to give it. Doesn’t seem to be any airtime given to that friendship.

I do however believe that there will be info that we’re not privy to - there were apparently a number of ‘secret’ witnesses at the original inquest.

Stuck in my brain are the comments at the end that session, that ‘ a previously unknown witness has come forward ‘. I think it was that information that led to the massive search.

 

[Awakening]

I was rummaging through some of my saved stuff today looking for something l didn't find.
What l did find though, was some info which may or may not have been mentioned here. Apologies if this has been posted before:-

FGM apparently had a regular male visitor to her home. He was a wealthy senior of similar age and was a scoutmaster for 45 years. He was also a pilot with a current licence. I have the guy's name but not sure where l sourced it.
Wasn't there an Airport between Kendall and Lakewood and would JS have passed it on the way? Was this ever raised by LE or at the inquest?

You can’t just pilot a plane like you can drive your car. You need to submit a flight plan.

 

[nut]

You can’t just pilot a plane like you can drive your car. You need to submit a flight plan.

Not really… if you remained outside controlled airspace you don’t always need too.

 

[31550]

You can’t just pilot a plane like you can drive your car. You need to submit a flight plan.

That's a bit like saying "You can't just take a 3YO boy and hide him for 9 years".

You can, but it's likely that someone would find out.

I have seen discussion about this mysterious older pilot/scoutmaster/ FGM friend in forums but I don't think he's been publicly identified. And therefore I don't know if he was ever formally investigated or whether he has an alibi. Is he just another red herring, or is he another missed avenue of investigation?

I think "William was flown off somewhere by FGM's boyfriend" to be one of the less-likely explanations of what actually happened.

 

[Awakening]

That's a bit like saying "You can't just take a 3YO boy and hide him for 9 years".

You can, but it's likely that someone would find out.

I have seen discussion about this mysterious older pilot/scoutmaster/ FGM friend in forums but I don't think he's been publicly identified. And therefore I don't know if he was ever formally investigated or whether he has an alibi. Is he just another red herring, or is he another missed avenue of investigation?

I think "William was flown off somewhere by FGM's boyfriend" to be one of the less-likely explanations of what actually happened.

Well yes, you are right of course.

But you are not flying planes overseas from Kendall airport.

How many planes were flying out from Kendall that day? Doubt there would be many and it would be easier to track planes from Kendall then it would be any number of cars passing through.

So if you were planning an abduction a car would make more sense.

 

[31550]

Well yes, you are right of course.

But you are not flying planes overseas from Kendall airport.

How many planes were flying out from Kendall that day? Doubt there would be many and it would be easier to track planes from Kendall then it would be any number of cars passing through.

So if you were planning an abduction a car would make more sense.

In any case he has to get from FGMs place and into a plane (which is either at Kendall airport or a private runway). This would seem to necessitate a car and a driver anyway. So far we have not identified the car or the driver.

 

[stormbird]

Crim City podcast: The missing children - William Tyrrell, Samantha Knight and Renee Aitkin, YouTube, 30 Nov 2023

"Mark Morri and Josh Hanrahan discuss the missing children who haunt the generations."

They start talking about William's case at about 17 minutes.

 

[Moonwatcher]

Can someone give me a 1 paragraph synopsis of what has happened who are the suspects?