Do high expectations reduce enjoyment?

[ACTion Hawks]

I have been reading Big Footy with interest this season. There has been some great debate and thoughts out there, but I have also noticed (and felt myself) a lack of real enjoyment in the year so far. This got me thinking, is this due to:

1. the gameplan?
2. the results? or
3. our expectations meaning anything but a 150 point flogging is considered an underperformance?

Although I know the gameplan is a bit painful, as often pointed out by Henry Jr it has generally led to us being either way ahead in terms of scoring shots or at the least competitive. i can understand this being a factor in the pain though - I too would prefer to see Buddy leading to the ball and us scoring lots of goals on the run

Our results - when you look at it a bit objectively, we are not doing bad. Although people hate to admit it, we may not have played a perfect four quarters yet, but we have played some good footy in every match and have been winning convincingly or competitive in all bar one match (and even then we were still in it in the last quarter).

So then we come to the expectations. Every week I notice in the preview we have comments like "if we don't win then we are not true top 4" and in all the reviews we concentrate on the negatives - ie beat Saints but let Kosi kick five!, or Only won against Freo because of one good quarter! The reality in these matches is that we may not have played great but we won them all and won them all with ease, but lots of us don't seem to be enjoying it.

I remember back in 05/06 when we were rebuilding we celebrated the smallest victories (Buddies first multiple goals, a great mark by Roughy, a bit of mad bravery by Campbell Brown, Willo being the only 184cm key forward and doing it easy. Now we don't seem to get excited, even when Cyril takes a mark of the year contender. We are taking that for granted and whinging about the bad stuff, rather than exulting in the fact we have some great players. Sometimes in form, sometimes not - but always trying and often doing breathtaking stuff.

This season is one where any one of ten teams could win it. This means there are a lot of games we cannot take for granted and we should go into every match confident, but realising that we will not dominate for the whole game, teams will challenge us and we (the supporters) need to do our bit to get OUR team over the line.

 

[QuietB]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Maybe. I know that 08 was the most enjoyable game of footy I have ever been too and always put that partly down to having such low expectations.

 

[Brishawk]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Sort of. I have very high expectations for this season but I accept that things might not go all to plan along the way. There does seem to be a chorus of supporters that expect to smash every team along the way and I think that particular expectation is the problem.

I feel a key component of our success in 2008 was born of the multitude of games we had to fight out. In that year, we learned to find ways to win where we weren't on our game etc. By the same token Geelong cruised through the season unchallenged and when they fell behind in the GF they didn't know what to do (they have since overcome that issue!). Time will tell if we can learn the lessons we need to in order to perfect our team mentality going into the finals but individual losses or bad games should not blind people to the real affect on our premiership chances in 2012.

 

[Brishawk]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Maybe. I know that 08 was the most enjoyable game of footy I have ever been too and always put that partly down to having such low expectations.

Interesting. I was actually very confident we could beat them and I enjoyed that game A LOT!

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I think the whole "premiership favourites" thing has raised expectations to unprecedented levels.

A good example is some of our supporters going off their tree on Saturday when we had a lull in the 3rd quarter. We were always in control of that game but there seems to be this thing where we must go on and crush teams and if we don't win by 15 goals we are mentally soft, don't have the tank etc.

The reality is that very few teams this season have been able to control a game for 4 quarters (leaving out GC and GWS). I think that the expectations coming in to this season led some of us to believe we should be belting teams week in and week out which is just unrealistic. As well as Essendon are travelling, they let a bottom 8 side in Richmond drop 6 goals in a row and take the lead from them. Does it mean they are mentally weak because they didn't smash Richmond by 10 goals? Ladder position says no to me.

I am very happy with where we sit right now. While we have lost 3 games we have been pretty dam good and we just torched a top 8 team by 10 goals without Hodge. No complaints here.

 

[Hawks1994]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Yeah it has seemed a little flat.

Maybe people being a bit anxious because of our horror start to the year...

I'm sure we will start getting more cheerier from now with some nice wins under our belt

 

[QuietB]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Interesting. I was actually very confident we could beat them and I enjoyed that game A LOT!

I was pretty confident myself after the round 17? clash, but I certainly didn't go in "expecting" the Hawks to win. At half time I was wondering how the hell they were still in it let alone in front. 3rd quater was a very nice surprise.

Right now I do expect them to win, and there does seem to be a sense that when they do win they should have won by more.

 

[QuietB]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I think the whole "premiership favourites" thing has raised expectations to unprecedented levels.

A good example is some of our supporters going off their tree on Saturday when we had a lull in the 3rd quarter. We were always in control of that game but there seems to be this thing where we must go on and crush teams and if we don't win by 15 goals we are mentally soft, don't have the tank etc.

The reality is that very few teams this season have been able to control a game for 4 quarters (leaving out GC and GWS). I think that the expectations coming in to this season led some of us to believe we should be belting teams week in and week out which is just unrealistic. As well as Essendon are travelling, they let a bottom 8 side in Richmond drop 6 goals in a row and take the lead from them. Does it mean they are mentally weak because they didn't smash Richmond by 10 goals? Ladder position says no to me.

I am very happy with where we sit right now. While we have lost 3 games we have been pretty dam good and we just torched a top 8 team by 10 goals without Hodge. No complaints here.

Agree with your sentiment. Going on to crush teams in May does not work and it would not surprise me if the club is well and truly aware of this. It did not work for the Cats in 08, the Saints in 09 or the Pies in 11. All were completely dominant premiership fav's crushing teams at will and all lost.

 

[illnino]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I dunno, ask the missus

At work so didn't read the full post, but have also noticed a distinct lack of love for when the boys win. Personally, I'm still over the moon every time we win, no matter how or against who, but I've always been like that no matter how we're travelling.

Someone said it best on the weekend (Echols?), there's probably 500+ posts in the autopsy thread when we lose, but only 50 when we win.

Oh how quickly people forget what a luxurious position we are in as supporters lately, plenty of other clubs' supporters would kill for similar results as what Hawthorn has achieved over the past few years, even with the premiership aside. Never mind having Buddy and Cyril.

 

[Jaeger]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Sometimes I guess.

For me the only win I didn't "enjoy" that much was against Melbourne.

I loved the Collingwood win. It was a very satisfying victory.

The win against the Crows was great. They were hot and we'd just lost a tough contest against Geelong, coming of a 6 day break, etc.

Personally I enjoyed the St Kilda game quite a lot. Our midfield copped a fair bit from the media, and they came out and smashed the in form Hayes and Dal Santo. Our backline kept Milne relatively quiet, and Schoey went alright against Riewoldt. And Buddy & Rioli put on a show. Was a good win.

I also enjoyed our win on the weekend.

So, for mine, high expectations reduce enjoyment when we play the very bottom sides, but other than that I love and enjoy winning, even if it's "expected" (which is rare for me).

 

[gohawkz1]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Loving the wins but also very nervous about our top 4 chances...

We have already lost 3 games, might be able to afford a maximum of 5 losses this year to make top 4...

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Yep. I've been angry and cynical since 2007

 

[Flukey!]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I think so.
We were pumped up so much early on that I did expect better results so far. I have also expected better wins than we have had and have often come away pleased, but not pumped.

I want to see premiership favourite form and I get a bit flat when we can't provide it. That explains why I was dissapointed with the Melbourne result.

 

[eldorado]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Yes.

Some key points...

1. Hold on to an inner pessimist, everything will then be a pleasant surprise.

2. Don't believe the media making bullshit predictions, or Champion Data saying we have the best list, or anyone making any sort of predictions. They are all shit, but like a broken clock, will occasionally be correct.

3. Just be happy to take the four points, one-week-at-time. Don't look further than your weekend dose of joy, then will be many more of them than if you only look for the one big moment in September (see point one)

4. Don't believe the media...again!

Footy existentialism.

 

[Atch]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I have been reading Big Footy with interest this season. There has been some great debate and thoughts out there, but I have also noticed (and felt myself) a lack of real enjoyment in the year so far. This got me thinking, is this due to:

1. the gameplan?
2. the results? or
3. our expectations meaning anything but a 150 point flogging is considered an underperformance?

Although I know the gameplan is a bit painful, as often pointed out by Henry Jr it has generally led to us being either way ahead in terms of scoring shots or at the least competitive. i can understand this being a factor in the pain though - I too would prefer to see Buddy leading to the ball and us scoring lots of goals on the run

Our results - when you look at it a bit objectively, we are not doing bad. Although people hate to admit it, we may not have played a perfect four quarters yet, but we have played some good footy in every match and have been winning convincingly or competitive in all bar one match (and even then we were still in it in the last quarter).

So then we come to the expectations. Every week I notice in the preview we have comments like "if we don't win then we are not true top 4" and in all the reviews we concentrate on the negatives - ie beat Saints but let Kosi kick five!, or Only won against Freo because of one good quarter! The reality in these matches is that we may not have played great but we won them all and won them all with ease, but lots of us don't seem to be enjoying it.

I remember back in 05/06 when we were rebuilding we celebrated the smallest victories (Buddies first multiple goals, a great mark by Roughy, a bit of mad bravery by Campbell Brown, Willo being the only 184cm key forward and doing it easy. Now we don't seem to get excited, even when Cyril takes a mark of the year contender. We are taking that for granted and whinging about the bad stuff, rather than exulting in the fact we have some great players. Sometimes in form, sometimes not - but always trying and often doing breathtaking stuff.

This season is one where any one of ten teams could win it. This means there are a lot of games we cannot take for granted and we should go into every match confident, but realising that we will not dominate for the whole game, teams will challenge us and we (the supporters) need to do our bit to get OUR team over the line.

Willo was only 180cm or 5'11.
I am a stats nazi haha

 

[The Jet From Poowong]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Yes.

Some key points...

1. Hold on to an inner pessimist, everything will then be a pleasant surprise.

2. Don't believe the media making bullshit predictions, or Champion Data saying we have the best list, or anyone making any sort of predictions. They are all shit, but like a broken clock, will occasionally be correct.

3. Just be happy to take the four points, one-week-at-time. Don't look further than your weekend dose of joy, then will be many more of them than if you only look for the one big moment in September (see point one)

4. Don't believe the media...again!

Footy existentialism.

I think some of our supporters have unrealistic expectations and hence focus solely on negatives as a result.

Our start to the season whilst not pretty at times has been the toughest bar none. Playing 'competitive' games takes a toll and usually by the 3rd or 4th game you are a sitting duck. If you have these 'competitive' games well spaced it makes recovery and life a lot easier.

We have played
Collingwood (h) win 22
Geelong (a) loss 2
Adelaide (h) win 56
West coast (a) loss 5
Sydney (h) loss 37
St Kilda (a) win 35
Melbourne (a) win 66
Fremantle (h) win 56

That is as tough as it gets.

And media drivel tends to influence psyche. I have never heard more rubbish than during the week after losing to the Swans after getting 'embarrassed' by 37 points. I'll never forget the swans fan boy quote "the swans wouldn't consider anyone from hawthorn for Joey. Maybe Buddy and to a lesser extent Cyril"

We just need to aim to win enough games to get a top 2 position. From that point the game becomes hot and contested and the bodies crash. Our bodies are seasoned for this

 

[HawkieTalkie]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I made (and have thankfully kept) a personal pledge to take a que sera, sera approach to the Hawks after 27th September 2008. It is unquestionably the greatest moment in my Hawthorn-supporting life and my own perspective is that the club owes me nothing any more.

I celebrate ANY win we have and take an "oh well, bad luck" approach to defeat. I will always renew my membership - what that footy team gave me in 2008 is priceless.

You need only look at the current 2012 ladder to know that much pre-season expectaion is no more than an educated guess, mostly by people who have never coached or played in a premiership. I ignore any pre-season predictions, due to the lack of "exposed form". Too much changes from October to March to simply declare that "the Hawks are hurting from last year and will win it" or "the Cats are unbeatable" etc etc.

I didn't enjoy the footy in 95, 97, 98, 04, 05 or 06 when we were mostly cringe-worthy and copped some horrid beltings....2008 changed my ways and now if we win, GREAT, if we lose.....there's always next week!

 

[robiecampbellbrown]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

I agree with the OP. 2007 was quite enjoyable. We had finished 2006 with four wins, the ultimate in non-tanking. The team carried that into 2007, with wins against West Coast and Port particularly memorable, especially the latter. I took my son there after having endured the two 100 point beltings the previous two years. We won by 30 points, and I realized he had never seen them win live until then. Then there was the Buddy game: the elimination final against the Crows. On the topic of expectations, tgecnext week we for the semi versus North, expecting to win. We lost.

2008 speaks for itself. I can't remember being such an underdog in any of our flags. Maybe someone else can?

 

[Gralin]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

The Melbourne game this year is the most meh I can remember feeling after the Hawks destroyed a team. From the way the players sang the song I think they were a bit the same.

All the hard work they did was let down by conversion and it somehow made an 11 goal win seem lackluster.

I think the start of our season and the stretch from rounds 17-19 will be good for the team leading into finals as the team needs to be up several weeks in a row against tough opposition

 

[SHAKESPEARE]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Last year vs Port....that was exciting. I loved that belting. That's what I want!

 

[Agent Smith]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

Yep. I've been angry and cynical since 2007

Really? Hadn't noticed.

I simply don't 'enjoy' Hawthorn games. Can't remember really experiencing enjoyment in a Hawks game... certainly not until the game is done and dusted and I know we're going away with the 4 points. I can certainly enjoy other games of football, the high quality contests between two competitive teams which don't involve the magical influences of Paul Roos or Ross Lyon.

So what makes it all worthwhile? That last five minutes of the Grand Final when you know you're about to be presented with a premiership flag. So when the world tells you your team is premiership favourite, you try and shut it out but that taste of premiership success is like a drug - once you've experienced it you want to go back for more and more (St Kilda supporters don't know how lucky they are ). I want it. I crave it. As long as the dream is alive then I can taste it. If I can't see it happening, then I pack my taste buds away and hope for next year. Right now, I'm still studying the menu for final 4 success.

Hawthorn Football Club, please give generously, so that Agent Smiths around the country don't go hungry. Give, so that they may grow.

 

[marklar]

Re: Do High Expectation Reduce Enjoyment

We have played
St Kilda (a) win 35
Melbourne (a) win 66

Both at the G, I wouldn't call them real away games 'cept for the fact we wear white shorts.

Sydney (h) loss 37

I wouldn't really call it a home or away game, we don't seem to have much home ground advantage in the Apple Isle, certainly not with the crowd cheering Goodes on.

And media drivel tends to influence psyche.

Sad, but true. Reporters get paid to sell newspapers/advertising/ratings, who gives a stuff what they think of Hawthorn and their chances? Unfortunately the young and impressionable footballers can't escape the media scrutiny and have to pay at least some attention to it.

 

[crazywildhorse]

I had my home and away rounds of 2012 destroyed on the night the Hawks lost the PF to Collingwood. All I am really looking forward to, or hoping for this season, is that Hawthorn get a chance to rectify that situation. So yes I agree that high expectations reduce enjoyment to an extent. Beating Collingwood in round 1 was nice, but it won't mean much if nothing comes of September.

 

[toomanysquibs]

It's very, very difficult for me not to enjoy any win. Sure it might be upsetting when we've played an ugly style of footy, but a win is a win, is a win.

 

[Roby]

We are favourites, we are expected to win over everyone else.

Come Grand Final (if we make it) you realise how much sweat, blood and tears it's taken to get here, certainly not one season, and all those expectations will wash away into oblivion, a premiership beckons and everything else would seem irrelevant for a few hours.