Do we have any potentially elite players?

[bombersrbest05]

Berating? FFS man get a grip. You have an obsession.

We have had 2 high picks that a few of us had hoped would turn into a Judd or a Reiwoldt or Hodge. We finished in the bottom 4 for a few years and we expected/wanted to hit the jackpot via some good selections.

We haven't. We need to find elite players. We have Ryder. No one on our list currently has the potential to be any of the above 3.

To be a flag contender you need these elite players.

How about you take your own advice and name a player or two instead of berating other posters.

why have you written off Myers a player who had an injury interrupted first season and missing pre season this year and has played what 12 games.

Also written of Gumbleton who hasnt even finished growing he is that young, you have to expect a kpp to get injured there isnt many that don't but dont just write them off when you have hardly seen them play

You bring alot of negative comments to this board are you really and Essendon supporter or what?

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

why have you written off Myers a player who had an injury interrupted first season and missing pre season this year and has played what 12 games.

Also written of Gumbleton who hasnt even finished growing he is that young, you have to expect a kpp to get injured there isnt many that don't but dont just write them off when you have hardly seen them play

You bring alot of negative comments to this board are you really and Essendon supporter or what?

..... errr. This is what I've said:

We need to hit the jackpot via drafting as Gumby and Myers are way behind the eight ball.

Written them off no. You never know your luck in the big city. Being a realist though chances are very slim. Not many players barely play for 3 years and then become elite. Not many players show absolutely nothing for 2 years and then become elite.

 

[bombersrbest05]

It's not just this thread you seem to target out these players in every post, I'm sure there are many that would agree with me

 

[fishguts]

..... errr. This is what I've said:



Written them off no. You never know your luck in the big city. Being a realist though chances are very slim. Not many players barely play for 3 years and then become elite. Not many players show absolutely nothing for 2 years and then become elite.

My ****ing god kelvin, how many times do we have to go down this road, I provide sample up on samples of evidence of Myers showing signs, yet you continue to sprout propoganda that because he isn't elite in one and a half years he is a dud.


Grow the **** up, taking your ****ing glasses off, and **** off.

 

[Kong]

This thread is going off-track. Keep away from the personal slurs and get back on topic or it'll be closed.

 

[Slattery_20]

I can't think anything until the media says I can think it. Until Jobe or Winders or Paddy or Lovett gets in Beige mike's top 50, I won't believe they're any good.
The way I see it:
Photos on back page of Sun>>> Top 50 >>>>>>>>>>>>> rising star nominations >> AA jumpers >> actually contributing towards winning games of AFL footy every week

Can you imagine if we had a guy as elite as Trav Cloke or Michael Osborne?
That'd be AWESOME!

 

[Colin D'Cops]

..We have Ryder. No one on our list currently has the potential to be any of the above 3.

That's your opinion. That's great, now move on.

Some people I think get a little caught up with your posts mainly because;
a ) You state the same opinion over and over again.
b ) Say to people you don't watch a heap of matches, and as such people take your posts as worthless.
c ) Most of your opinions you say as if they are fact. Afterall, opinions are just that; A person's thoughts on a matter. Thoughts are never always fact. Many people share different views on everything in life, not just football.

I don't automatically discount your posts when 'kelvin_sheedy' pops up on the computer screen; I'm not one of your harshest critics. But surely you're getting the vibe that most supporters on this board are tired of you being guilty falling under 'a', 'b' and/or 'c' listed above.

 

[Synth]

Myers can't even keep his spot so I'm not sure why so many think he could become elite. In my opinion the best he could do is be in our 22. (Picking him over Palmer may turn out to be the f'up of the decade)

Gumbleton has hardly played and when he has hasn't done much. I'm crossing my fingers then he gets a smooth run and really steps up.

Hurley... well now we're talking. First game in AFL and he should have won the rising star nomination!

Zaka This kid should make 'elite' status. Everytime he touched the ball on Sunday I felt like it was in safe hands. He is proof first year players can shine.

Ryder is almost in the elite status. He is consistanly great. I would say if we were a top two team the media would have slapped the elite tag on him already.

Reimers needs to prove himself again. He was the shining star last year but in a very poor team. This year we have gone up more then a knotch and when he gets back he needs to do the same.


On a side note:
I don't think you really need elite players to win a granny. Rather good to great players across your 22 (and even a couple in the 2's to cover your injuries)

 

[yaco55]

To be fair - I doubt that Myers will be elite ?

The two young players who come to mind are reimers and Pears.

 

[Slattery_20]

Who
Gives
A
Carp

Go to games.
Decide yourself who had more impact in the Carlton game... Lovett or Judd. Then watch the previous 2... and try and tell me which is the "elite" player there and which one is the money-bags who is apparently above chasing the tail of grubbers like Lovett.
Who had more impact on ANZAC day... that ugly kid with the stupid hair or NLM... one of them took it upon himself to put himself under pressure to set up the iwnning goal: the other ran forward of the contest instead of shepherding and watched the sprayed shot miss.

If you're worried about what the media think, good for you. But I'm not. I know what I think based on what I see and I discuss with fellow supporters. I don't think it's arrogant to suggest that I have a better grasp of how good our players are than a good 80% of the media.

 

[Mad Bomber Sean]

WATSON if he's not already elite will be by the seasons end... He's our Greg Williams and my darkie for Charlie..

5th in league for possesions and at 71.94% effectiveness
3rd in total AFL Handballs
2nd in first possession in league
10th in league for in total Clearances
5th in scores from stoppages in league

 

[daffo]

I think Houli has the chance to become elite. He has great vision when kicking the ball and can hit a target 60 metres away. He also will build up great endurance in the coming years and can see him becoming a 30 touch a week player.
Pears has really stepped up this year, so I can see him becoming one of the best defenders in five years time. He already is rarely beaten in a one on one battle, is smart enough to not getting caught out on the lead and has excellent skills.
They would be my two.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

On a side note:
I don't think you really need elite players to win a granny. Rather good to great players across your 22 (and even a couple in the 2's to cover your injuries)

I think you do.

When was the last time a side won without any elite players?

Hawks have Buddy, Hodge, Roughead.

Cats have a fair few.

Sydney - Goodes, Hall

Eagles - Judd, Cousins, Kerr

Port - Tredrea, Burgoyne, Cornes

Brisbane - ...

Essendon - Hird, Lloyd, Fletcher

 

[AFL LEGEND]

Potential is a big statment, I think Watson and Ryder are the two who spring to mind, elite players are consistant over periods of time, they play well no matter what the situation, winnning, losing, they are the ones who try to lift the team.

 

[SirJimi05]

you're the one with the obsession matey.

Gumbleton was drafted in 06

Myers was drafted in 07

Most players don't hit their straps before they have played 5 years, and Gumby has been injured for most of his 3.

You bore me by your vendetta against these players.

Yeah but don't you know that guys like Ablett and Hodge looked like they would be elite after about 10 games! You should know better Lance!

I agree with you mate. It becomes very boring and tiresome doesn't it.

 

[SirJimi05]

I think you do.

When was the last time a side won without any elite players?

Hawks have Buddy, Hodge, Roughead.

Cats have a fair few.

Sydney - Goodes, Hall

Eagles - Judd, Cousins, Kerr

Port - Tredrea, Burgoyne, Cornes

Brisbane - ...

Essendon - Hird, Lloyd, Fletcher

Depends what you class as elite. Everyone has a different opinion on this.

Is elite just the upper echelon of players such as Hird, Voss, Judd, Buckley etc or does it include players Like Hall (at the time they won the flag), Cornes, Goodes etc who are just A grade players.

 

[Smokin]

in many ways, when your side becomes one of the better ones, players simply become elite, becuase thats what the wider community and media does.

Ie if we won the flag today, Watson would be the premier inside mid, Winderlich up there as one of the best outside mids, Ryder THE prot-type ruckman for generations to come etc.

What im saying is that if the team becomes elite, individuals will become elite etc.

Just like when you win a few games and are the flavour of the month, individuals are praised through the roof, lose a few and you're worth is questioned all of a sudden.

just the way it is.

 

[Enki]

^^ Maybe in a media/opposition fan sense. But the fact still remains that you should be able to make objective judgements about players if you are unbiased and watch enough of those players.

Of course winning streaks may influence some people but I think all Essendon fans recognise Watsons improvement, so from that perspective it isn't some subjective flash in the pan judgement that say Mike Sheahans top 50 list is.

If we won the flag today, Watson would HAVE to be one of the premier inside mids and Winderlich would HAVE to be up there as one of the best outside mids. This is true simply because teams that win premierships have great players. That's not to say the media don't jump on bandwagons and overrate player simply because they played in the premiership team, because they do.

But it is still possible to remove the hype and judge players. For instance Watson was in a few lists on the main board, and even if he wasn't in my top 10 (he may be, I haven't really considered it) he would be close. Now opposition fans may be just like the media and if Essendon happened to go on a losing streak, knock on wood, they may jump off Jobes wagon. However, objectively if he kept playing the way he has in my opinion he wouldn't drop.

I guess I'm saying I don't agree that if the team becomes elite, individuals will become elite. Maybe in the media, but I've judged plenty of players elite long before the media started prattling on, and I'm sure more than a few on this board have too. Substance and hype can be seperated.

 

[Donakebab]

I think you do.

When was the last time a side won without any elite players?


Brisbane - ...

Am I taking this the wrong way, or are you saying that 01-03 Brisbane side had no elite players?!

 

[DonMania#5]

Watson, Winderlich, Ryder..

 

[Enki]

Am I taking this the wrong way, or are you saying that 01-03 Brisbane side had no elite players?!

I think he just meant between the "fav 4" and their forwards and backs, they had plenty of talent that could be classed "elite".

 

[Smokin]

^^ Maybe in a media/opposition fan sense. But the fact still remains that you should be able to make objective judgements about players if you are unbiased and watch enough of those players.

snip

However, objectively if he kept playing the way he has in my opinion he wouldn't drop.

I hear you, but of course something like this is subjective. And will always will be.

But who is widely considered the "elite" of the comp, comes down to a media/generalisation thing for many players in the top teams. Just the way it is.

If you watched on the couch last night, they had a stat which showed Watson only 2nd in the comp behind Judd for contest ball won for his team.

It could objectively be argued now that, given his position, he is elite as we speak. Only Judd, the cream of the crop, is statistically better in getting contested ball.

But, until we are consistantly winning games, it is harder for guys like watson to get the recognition he deserves.

And then there are players who may be playing for Geelong, who are getting an armchair ride and perhaps wouldnt be as highely regarded if they played for Richmond or Melbourne right now, but we will never know.

Im not saying its right or wrong, just the way the footy world is.

 

[Enki]

But, until we are consistantly winning games, it is harder for guys like watson to get the recognition he deserves.

I understand what you are saying, but you seem to equate recognition in the media and from fans as a true measure of elite status.
I just don't agree, the rating of someone with great football knowledge means much more than the mass media and internet idiots. Who that person is, is of course subjective to you the individual.

Yes, all football opinions will be somewhat subjective but I meant to use objective in the sense that you try to distance yourself from any biases or preconcieved notions, not universal objectivity. But I guess you are right in the sense that without a hard metric to use to measure "elite" status (which is almost impossible for such a nebulous concept) most of the time it will simply be popular opinion. Oh well.

 

[mick]

Fro an outsiders perspective the two most obvious candidates to reach the "elite" level are Ryder and Watson.

Ryder's skill and appeal is obvious for all to see, he as much potential for improvement as any player in the league. You know an Essendon player is good when a Hawthorn fan likes to watch him play well.

Watson has to be watched to be appreciated. I had no time for him until I saw him singlehandedly dismantle two other elite clearance specialists in Sewell and Mitchell. Of course he has faults in his game, as do Buddy, Judd and Ablett, luckily Watson's kicking can be improved. He may never have Judd or Ablett's ability to operate as an "outside" player, but neither did Greg Wiliams and he was certainly elite.

 

[strategy]

Half the team are , i am NOT kidding.
As long as they dont believe what they read about themselves saying how good they are and people telling them they are fantastic etc and believing that as their intensity and gut running will drop off.

Hence i didnt name the players concerned as its a team effort on and off the field .