- Banned
- #676
Who the heck is JM??? 
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AFLW 2024 - Round 7 - Pride Round - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
Do you believe the Iraq War can be justified?
- Thread starter Gunnar Longshanks
- Start date
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by anychancely .... do you believe the US had prior knowledge of the Japanese attack on Pearl Habour?
How should I know?
Just checking your knowledge of matters military. The Rev Wright is a proponent of this theory so it has renewed currency.
- Banned
- #681
It was a particularly poor attempt at constructing a straw-man...
jumpinjimmy
Cancelled
It is the last resort of the SRP scoundrel and BoohooJane and NMWBlubs are up with the best of them. Achancely, you are right on the money
Don't fall for their BS.
camsmith
Brownlow Medallist
Achancely you are wrong. NMW has clearly shown you to be wrong by explaining how the original invasion was won and how that is a separate issue to the problems that followed.
Personal attacks and pity arguments doesn't help one bit.
Personal attacks and pity arguments doesn't help one bit.
JW Frogen
Premiership Player
Can the Iraq war be justified? (As opposed to the Bush strategy.)
Well, that depends on whether you think the little brown Iraqis should determine their own future, the opportunity which was brought to them payed by American blood.
And I really wonder, how many of them will take up the challenge, how many of them will honor the American cost?
The answer says as much about Iraqis as it does about Americans.
It may be that Americans have more faith in Iraqis than Iraqis have in themseleves.
But I have faith this is not the case, in both countries resides my faith.
In freedom resides my faith.
Well, that depends on whether you think the little brown Iraqis should determine their own future, the opportunity which was brought to them payed by American blood.
And I really wonder, how many of them will take up the challenge, how many of them will honor the American cost?
The answer says as much about Iraqis as it does about Americans.
It may be that Americans have more faith in Iraqis than Iraqis have in themseleves.
But I have faith this is not the case, in both countries resides my faith.
In freedom resides my faith.
- Banned
- #685
Well, obviously it doesn't reside in rational thought...
JW Frogen
Premiership Player
The courage for freedom rarely does.
Slaves are rational. They obey the preceived reality.
Free men break out to the other side.
It is what we must do.
Frogen, for shame. Honestly! Post invasion, the Americans refused to supply security to the Iraqis and left them to the mercy of the crooks and criminals calculatedly released by Saddam BEFORE the invasion plus the repressed, dispossessed Shiite underclass - who together destroyed the entire infrastructure of the country in less than two weeks. Leaving the Iraqi population in Baghdad and the Sunni/Baath influenced provinces totally unprotected. Thus enabling the Baath and AlQ to start its war against the majority shiite Iraqis and the moderate, minority Sunnis.
Despite this debacle of military policy, only two years later the Iraqis had turned out against concerted mass slaughter attacks from the insurgency to vote in two elections and a constituitonal referendum for a democracy - and all the while the US was still declining to provide security to them as official US military policy?
Don't you think those voting turnouts in democratic elections honored the "American cost"?
??????? The instant the US started providing security to the Iraqis under Petraeous then the Iraqis were relieved from being forced into a position of having no other existential choice but to kill each other or leave the country in order to survive.
The Iraqis faith had been shown in the voter turnout of 2005, Frogen. It was the US who didn't have faith in them, not the other way around as you have it.
Except for Bush. Who kept burbling on about his faith in Iraqis and facing down the opportunistic Dems and the nervous nells in his own party until he finally found a general who could advise him "the problem is the security of the people" as opposed to generals up until then who had been advising him "the problem is our presence there". And he backed him. With the results we are now seeing?
That is, the problem was not enough US presence, not to little!
- Banned
- #688
NMW did none of the above. Fanboy support doesn't make him any more correct.
He was making poorly considered statements and then resorted to personal abuse when called on it - you're right on one thing, personal attacks don't help at all.
You think they are poorly considered because you don't understand them or can't refute them or simply want an argument for the sake of it.
I've quoted Keegan from "War on Saddam", which agrees with my point of distinguishing the conventional military campaign in the invasion from the aftermath. Martel in "Victory in War" has the same view.
The point of "de-Ba'athification" being a disaster and increasing the insurgency, as well as a lack of effective post-invasion planning was addressed by Woodward in "State of Denial", Oren in "Power, Faith & Fantasy", Miller in "Blood Money", and Galbraith in "End of Iraq".
You continue to try to "win" some silly argument by trying to trip me up on semantics rather than address the points I have made. Amazingly like JM. If accusing you of playing a semantics game is personal abuse, then you'd best leave BF before you start arguing with the people who use real personal attacks (and it's still interesting that you don't acknowledge that you opened your initial post by calling me a fool!).
How should I know?
Are you sure...? I know you desperately want to say that it was a set up job and quote from a certain author who has been discredited...
- Banned
- #691
More personal insults because your behaviour was inappropriate.
No, you haven't 'quoted' them at all. I don't doubt their exact quotes aren't as foolish as to say the aftermath of the conventional campaign wasn't also a military exercise.
None of which I disagree with.
The only person who has argued semantics is you, son.
I did not call you a fool - I said I could not believe what sort of fool would say such a thing. Less a direct personal attack than anything you've thrown at me.
It's trite you accuse me of ignoring your argument considering you haven't addressed mine once.
That's an attack!?! Son - that's like JM!! JM was the biggest tool here. If you want to disbelieve the sources I've referred to and for whatever reason need to keep with your silly arguing to win some obscure point, then good for you. What sort of loser would carry on with such rubbish (apparently that's not a personal attack according to you).
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As I understand Rev Wright he is saying that Violence begets violence - heaven forfend a Christian cleric actually preaching the bible!
As for the "God Damn America" - that was addressed to the First Commandment - people say God Bless America as if God owed America something. God Damn America if it is a Graven Idol
BZT wrong, the majority of resistance to the US are native iraqi's.
even rumsfeld before his departure said so.
AQ are the tiny minority and they are not held in regard by iraqi's at all.
- Banned
- #696
Look at this. You're just mouthing off now.
You've named sources. That's not 'proof' of anything. I haven't disbelieved them - I've asked you to demonstrate they meet your argument.
You haven't, and now you're going nuts at me.
You need to grow up son - this sort of frantic stupidity doesn't make your argument any less weak.
- Banned
- #698
LOL - too funny - "going nuts"!
(and maybe you should go off and read some books)
Is this how you take the high ground? List off some names and then claim I'm the one acting like a tosser?
Cheap attempt to back out of the discussion. I guess it matches with the maturity you've shown in previous posts son.
At least have the balls to back up your words. The use of the word 'champ' is a surefire sign someone is trying to wriggle away.
jumpinjimmy
Cancelled
You wont see NMWBlubs for a few weeks now. It usually takes him that long to get over the 'sooks'gold
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