Coach Do you still have any faith in Bevo? [POLL]

[Outback Footy]

We may never play finals again.

Comedy Gold!

 

[Outback Footy]

Why the sudden noise again? Oh thats right weve lost 3 games. FFS people get some perspective. We were in every one of those games. We were on a roll and could very easily have won friday night if not for a truly shit umpiring decision. We were right in it with the cats and should have beaten the Suns. More scoring shots than either of those. Then we'd be top 4 and this thread would be silent.

FFS give it time. Chill. Enjoy all the prime time games and the emotion of tight games.

Whats costing us games? Its not Bevo I'll give you the drum.

Poor kicking for goal. Turnovers in defense.

Once we get that shit right, oh and stop contesting against each other in the air, we'll be back on track. Dont worry, we'll go deep in the finals again this year.

 

[Outback Footy]

The last 3 games could be our bad luck games for the year, the games where the ball always bounces wrong. We could be about to gon a run where the ball always bounces right, we dont kick straight to oppos in defense at all, our forwards finally start kicking straight, we stop **** blocking each other in the air or our crumbers start collecting and scoring.

And dont forget, never forget, its only a freakin game. Dont lose your hair or beat your partner over it.

 

[dogwatch]

Why the sudden noise again? Oh thats right weve lost 3 games. FFS people get some perspective. We were in every one of those games. We were on a roll and could very easily have won friday night if not for a truly s**t umpiring decision. We were right in it with the cats and should have beaten the Suns. More scoring shots than either of those. Then we'd be top 4 and this thread would be silent.

FFS give it time. Chill. Enjoy all the prime time games and the emotion of tight games.

Whats costing us games? Its not Bevo I'll give you the drum.

Poor kicking for goal. Turnovers in defense.

Once we get that s**t right, oh and stop contesting against each other in the air, we'll be back on track. Dont worry, we'll go deep in the finals again this year.

Agree.
And then when we win a few on the stretch a different set of posters come out and say, "where have all the anti-Bevo nuffies gone? I told you there was nothing to worry about". The cycle has become very predictable, like a sine wave.

Meanwhile nobody knows if we've really turned the Queen Mary around or not. Give it until the end of the season, see how we go, see if there are any personnel changes, then we can have a proper stoush.

Right now it just seems like the same arguments for and against are being trotted out on permanent loop.

 

[dogwatch]

The last 3 games could be our bad luck games for the year, the games where the ball always bounces wrong. We could be about to gon a run where the ball always bounces right, we dont kick straight to oppos in defense at all, our forwards finally start kicking straight, we stop utensil blocking each other in the air or our crumbers start collecting and scoring.

And dont forget, never forget, its only a freakin game. Dont lose your hair or beat your partner over it.

Eight of our last 10 games are against sides below us and outside the top 8. So yes, we really ought to be winning at least 6 of those (Geelong at KP will be hard), and probably one out of the other two games (Collingwood and Essendon).

Hope we do see some good footy and a lift in confidence and cohesion over that period!

 

[Contador]

Right now it just seems like the same arguments for and against are being trotted out on permanent loop.

That's not true. The suggestion that Bevo is keeping JOD in the team because he's besotted with his father is a fresh new take that I found very entertaining.

 

[geoffjennings79]

Why the sudden noise again? Oh thats right weve lost 3 games. FFS people get some perspective. We were in every one of those games. We were on a roll and could very easily have won friday night if not for a truly s**t umpiring decision. We were right in it with the cats and should have beaten the Suns. More scoring shots than either of those. Then we'd be top 4 and this thread would be silent.

FFS give it time. Chill. Enjoy all the prime time games and the emotion of tight games.

Whats costing us games? Its not Bevo I'll give you the drum.

Poor kicking for goal. Turnovers in defense.

Once we get that s**t right, oh and stop contesting against each other in the air, we'll be back on track. Dont worry, we'll go deep in the finals again this year.

We were playing catch up almost the whole game. Yes the Baker shepherd penalty seems harsh, but in general play, Butters and Rozee and their mates were always a step ahead. There were 2 instances in the second in front of us on the city wing where one of their mids were in possession being chased by our players. Boak and I can't recall the other Port player ran past our chasing players both times like they were standing still to yell directions/support. I don't know what Boak had in possessions on Friday night, but his experience, shepherding, blocking on our mids in particular was like gold for their smaller, quicker mids. An experienced head that ran as hard - and fast - as anyone on our side.

We won the overall possession count comfortably, but players like Boak had an impact on the game beyond actually being in possession of the ball.

 

[Conception]

Why the sudden noise again? Oh thats right weve lost 3 games. FFS people get some perspective. We were in every one of those games. We were on a roll and could very easily have won friday night if not for a truly s**t umpiring decision. We were right in it with the cats and should have beaten the Suns. More scoring shots than either of those. Then we'd be top 4 and this thread would be silent.

FFS give it time. Chill. Enjoy all the prime time games and the emotion of tight games.

Whats costing us games? Its not Bevo I'll give you the drum.

Poor kicking for goal. Turnovers in defense.

Once we get that s**t right, oh and stop contesting against each other in the air, we'll be back on track. Dont worry, we'll go deep in the finals again this year.

Sudden noise? Are we pretending 2022 didn't happen?

Right in it with the cats? The out of form cats who were missing their four best midfielders? On our home deck while we had a near full strength side? Sounds like you might be the one needing some perspective.

 

[doggies ftw]

Once we get that s**t right, oh and stop contesting against each other in the air, we'll be back on track. Dont worry, we'll go deep in the finals again this year.

Gold

He’s only had 9 years to get this right, what’s a couple more?

People are rightfully up in arms again because once again we beat up on shit sides but as soon as we face any sort of heat from a half decent side we’re incapable of getting the job done. 3-14 against top 8 sides since ‘21 days it all.

We are not going deep

 

[TiAn_]

We can win this year premiership

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Gold

He’s only had 9 years to get this right, what’s a couple more?

People are rightfully up in arms again because once again we beat up on s**t sides but as soon as we face any sort of heat from a half decent side we’re incapable of getting the job done. 3-14 against top 8 sides since ‘21 days it all.

We are not going deep

I don't think that 3-14 sounds right. We beat Sydney, Pies and Melbourne last year who were top 8, and this year we've beaten the Lions and the Crows (and there may be more I've missed) so that's at least 5 wins against top 8 sides since beginning of 2022. Still pretty deep in the negative, but pretty sure it's more than 3 wins

 

[geoffjennings79]

I don't think that 3-14 sounds right. We beat Sydney, Pies and Melbourne last year who were top 8, and this year we've beaten the Lions and the Crows (and there may be more I've missed) so that's at least 5 wins against top 8 sides since beginning of 2022. Still pretty deep in the negative, but pretty sure it's more than 3 wins

Since the start of 2022, we've beaten 4 teams that were in the 8 at the start of that round.
2022 round 3 - Sydney
2022 round 19 - Melbourne
2023 round 9 - Carlton
2023 round 10 - Adelaide

When we beat Pies last year, they were 9th before our game. When we beat Lions this year, they were 12th before our game.

 

[Nat Fyfe]

Since the start of 2022, we've beaten 4 teams that were in the 8 at the start of that round.
2022 round 3 - Sydney
2022 round 19 - Melbourne
2023 round 9 - Carlton
2023 round 10 - Adelaide

When we beat Pies last year, they were 9th before our game. When we beat Lions this year, they were 12th before our game.

Oh that makes more sense. Although I feel it's a little flawed - for example, the Lions win this year and Pies win last year were infinitely more impressive than the Blues win (considering how shit they are this year, and they were only in the top 8 at the time due to a soft early draw)

 

[doggies ftw]

Oh that makes more sense. Although I feel it's a little flawed - for example, the Lions win this year and Pies win last year were infinitely more impressive than the Blues win (considering how s**t they are this year, and they were only in the top 8 at the time due to a soft early draw)

True it’s definitely a little flawed, didn’t realise it wasn’t including Brissy win etc.

Still not great overall though and sort of confirms the ‘vibe’ in that we’ve seriously struggled against good teams since ‘21. If you look at final ladder last year and current ladder this year, we’re still 5-13 against top 8 sides so it’s not much better

You can argue that sure we only lost against Port by a few goals and honestly could or even should have won, but it’s clear we were outplayed for most of the night.

I just have zero confidence that in a big game ie a final, that we’re beating a decent side, even if we have had a few good wins

 

[geoffjennings79]

Oh that makes more sense. Although I feel it's a little flawed - for example, the Lions win this year and Pies win last year were infinitely more impressive than the Blues win (considering how s**t they are this year, and they were only in the top 8 at the time due to a soft early draw)

Yep, I agree to an extent, but then that's a subjective assessment, whereas if an opposing team is in the 8 at the start of our game, it's a definitive fact.

Also how is a win/loss in round 1 assessed? Round 1 last year we played the reigning premiers, so fair to assume they're a top 8 side, same for our R1 opponent this year, even though they bowed out in straight sets in 2022 finals, but there's no actual ladder positions before round 1.

Add the variability of opinions, an online forum, etc and anyone can argue almost anything without being proven right or wrong!
Lies, damn lies and statistics...!

 

[stefoid]

Why the sudden noise again? Oh thats right weve lost 3 games. FFS people get some perspective. We were in every one of those games. We were on a roll and could very easily have won friday night if not for a truly s**t umpiring decision. We were right in it with the cats and should have beaten the Suns. More scoring shots than either of those. Then we'd be top 4 and this thread would be silent.

FFS give it time. Chill. Enjoy all the prime time games and the emotion of tight games.

Whats costing us games? Its not Bevo I'll give you the drum.

Poor kicking for goal. Turnovers in defense.

Once we get that s**t right, oh and stop contesting against each other in the air, we'll be back on track. Dont worry, we'll go deep in the finals again this year.

IF we hadnt of lost we would have won?

But seriously, I agree turnovers in defence is a definate thing, but the coach is very much part of the issue here - because we are in a transition of our game plan mid season when this shit should have been under control a lot sooner.

Another aspect is long periods of ineffective ball movement into the forward line. same story.

better drilled teams still have these issues, but not to the extent that we have.

I do feel like the titanic is turning in many ways this season.

 

[Freshwater]

We all desperately wanted some sort of domination for a while after the flag. Some time to go to the footy and be the best team in the game, if only for a season. But alas we have not really been that team under Bevo, ever. 2021 was close, but it was a COVID year, and when crowds came back at the end we collapsed again. We never look like being that team. Our hope is always that we ‘get on run’ in the finals. It would be great to have at least one year like Port or Collingwood are having. We’ve never finished on top and don’t look like ever doing this under Bevo.

 

[Struggle]

What's this business about risk? What are we risking by getting rid of Beveridge? The success that we're currently not having? Did West Coast take a risk by parting ways with Worsfold 8 years after he won the flag?

It's a fair point to make that sometimes success can take a long time to build, and that patience with a coach can pay off in a big way. However, every case is different.

Let us look at Hawthorn and Clarko: when Hawthorn hired him they were at the bottom, and they steadily built up to winning the flag in 08. Then they had a bad year in 09. Then immediately starting steadily building up again: finals in 2010, top 4 and barely losing(choking) a prelim to Collingwood in 2011, top of the ladder and barely losing a Grand Final in 2012, then three straight flags from 2013-2015.
One crap year aside, there was always a sense of progression with every year. They were always getting better and never going backwards.

Richmond under Hardwick is similar: started at the bottom in 2010, then eventually made finals three years in a row from 2013-2015 (with 2015 being their best year). Then they had a bad year in 2016, Hardwick was right on the brink of being sacked, but they gave him one more chance with a slightly refreshed list. Went onto win three of the next four flags.

The same thing could be said about Bomber Thompson, with 2006 being the "bad" year.

Compare that to the Luke Beveridge rollercoaster of terminal inconsistency: great year in 2015, flag in 2016, crap in 2017, crap in 2018, crap for half of 2019 but find form late, make finals and show an extremely promising outlook for the future. Then crap in 2020, then we got the full rollercoaster experience contained in one year for 2021: great at the start, then mediocre, then good again, then terrible (final three rounds, choking top 4), then great again (finals) then bottom of the barrel disgusting (second half of the Grand Final). Then crap in 2022, crap in 2023.
Where is the steady line of progression? Clarko and Hardwick had their odd-one-out down years, but Beveridge already has several of these. At this point, we can safely conclude it's always going to be like this under him. There is also no question that following 2019, when we had such a promising young list, we have absolutely underachieved in the 4 years following on.

So Richmond making finals 13-15 and not winning any is steady progress and one bad year in 16
But our finals 19-22 are three crap seasons and a roller coaster?

 

[Unorth]

I know the obvious exception is Bevo for having won a flag outside the top 4 and making GF.

But it's so obviously favourable to finish top 4 and basically every other flag in this era shows it. It might not be accurate to call it a must (due to our own successes) but it essentially is. The advantage is too significant. For the two crazy runs we've had finishing 5-8, we've also lost in first week the other 4 finals under Bev.

Hell even in 2021, had we finished top 4 and had that time off, who knows how we close out the GF. And how we couldn't secure 1 more win in 3 very winnable games to finish the season...

IMO the bar for Bev to go at the end of this year shouldn't be to miss the top 8, it should have been either finish top 4 (now most likely out of the question) or if it's another 5-8, make it to at least the prelims.

We've used draft picks and cap space on older players, we recruited Lobb and Jones, and let's not pretend that preseason expectations were anything other than us being top 4 material.

It all depends on what the club is happy with being. Finishing 5-8 most years and losing in an elim final most years? It could be worse, you could be Carlton, but Bont, Libba etc deserve an actual shot. It's pretty wild that Bont has never finished top 4, if he had he'd probably have a Brownlow.

 

[Guido]

Geelong getting Chris Scott in 2011 is a perfect example. There was still so much talent in that team, but Bomber was stale and Scott came in with a fresh approach.

Also a possibility that Bomber was an ice dealer/addict by then.

What's this business about risk? What are we risking by getting rid of Beveridge? The success that we're currently not having? Did West Coast take a risk by parting ways with Worsfold 8 years after he won the flag?

It's a fair point to make that sometimes success can take a long time to build, and that patience with a coach can pay off in a big way. However, every case is different.

Let us look at Hawthorn and Clarko: when Hawthorn hired him they were at the bottom, and they steadily built up to winning the flag in 08. Then they had a bad year in 09. Then immediately starting steadily building up again: finals in 2010, top 4 and barely losing(choking) a prelim to Collingwood in 2011, top of the ladder and barely losing a Grand Final in 2012, then three straight flags from 2013-2015.
One crap year aside, there was always a sense of progression with every year. They were always getting better and never going backwards.

Richmond under Hardwick is similar: started at the bottom in 2010, then eventually made finals three years in a row from 2013-2015 (with 2015 being their best year). Then they had a bad year in 2016, Hardwick was right on the brink of being sacked, but they gave him one more chance with a slightly refreshed list. Went onto win three of the next four flags.

The same thing could be said about Bomber Thompson, with 2006 being the "bad" year.

Compare that to the Luke Beveridge rollercoaster of terminal inconsistency: great year in 2015, flag in 2016, crap in 2017, crap in 2018, crap for half of 2019 but find form late, make finals and show an extremely promising outlook for the future. Then crap in 2020, then we got the full rollercoaster experience contained in one year for 2021: great at the start, then mediocre, then good again, then terrible (final three rounds, choking top 4), then great again (finals) then bottom of the barrel disgusting (second half of the Grand Final). Then crap in 2022, crap in 2023.
Where is the steady line of progression? Clarko and Hardwick had their odd-one-out down years, but Beveridge already has several of these. At this point, we can safely conclude it's always going to be like this under him. There is also no question that following 2019, when we had such a promising young list, we have absolutely underachieved in the 4 years following on.

You say that Hardwick had his "odd-one-out down" years, but his best years (in his first 7 seasons) were the equivalent of Bevo's last few "down" years. With Cochtin, Martin, Rance and Reilwoldt and most of their 2017-2020 foot soldiers already on board, they didn't win a single final in his first 7 years. He didn't make finals more often than not in those first 7 years.

Bevo completely rebuilt a list between 2018 and 2020 (one of the youngest ever squads to make finals in 2019), to getting back to a Grand Final a year after that. We had a bad 2022, and a couple of poor games have us outside the top 4 this season. Yes, getting rid of a proven premiership coach in hope of a magic beans upgrade is high risk.

And maybe history will show that we are on a better upward trajectory than what Richmond was in 2016.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

We all desperately wanted some sort of domination for a while after the flag. Some time to go to the footy and be the best team in the game, if only for a season. But alas we have not really been that team under Bevo, ever. 2021 was close, but it was a COVID year, and when crowds came back at the end we collapsed again. We never look like being that team. Our hope is always that we ‘get on run’ in the finals. It would be great to have at least one year like Port or Collingwood are having. We’ve never finished on top and don’t look like ever doing this under Bevo.

Being dominant would be bloody nice. To me a win in finals is worth 10 H&A games wins and a flag 100. I wouldn't trade it but it'd be bloody nice.

 

[yebach]

Also a possibility that Bomber was an ice dealer/addict by then.

You say that Hardwick had his "odd-one-out down" years, but his best years (in his first 7 seasons) were the equivalent of Bevo's last few "down" years. With Cochtin, Martin, Rance and Reilwoldt and most of their 2017-2020 foot soldiers already on board, they didn't win a single final in his first 7 years. He didn't make finals more often than not in those first 7 years.

Bevo completely rebuilt a list between 2018 and 2020 (one of the youngest ever squads to make finals in 2019), to getting back to a Grand Final a year after that. We had a bad 2022, and a couple of poor games have us outside the top 4 this season. Yes, getting rid of a proven premiership coach in hope of a magic beans upgrade is high risk.

And maybe history will show that we are on a better upward trajectory than what Richmond was in 2016.

One thing Hardwick did do, was change their gameplan. Which brought them Premierships.

I can't see Bevo changing the gameplan.

 

[doggy heaven]

We were playing catch up almost the whole game. Yes the Baker shepherd penalty seems harsh, but in general play, Butters and Rozee and their mates were always a step ahead. There were 2 instances in the second in front of us on the city wing where one of their mids were in possession being chased by our players. Boak and I can't recall the other Port player ran past our chasing players both times like they were standing still to yell directions/support. I don't know what Boak had in possessions on Friday night, but his experience, shepherding, blocking on our mids in particular was like gold for their smaller, quicker mids. An experienced head that ran as hard - and fast - as anyone on our side.

We won the overall possession count comfortably, but players like Boak had an impact on the game beyond actually being in possession of the ball.

Noticed the same thing. Boak what a player over a long time. !!!!. Such a hard nut. We need one other than Libba.

 

[CaptainMurphy]

Who would people want for our next coach, whenever it happens?

 

[Optimistic Dog]

Bevo needs another flag for his crowning glory and his chance of that are diminishing quickly.

The team as it stands at round 13 is probably about four to 5 goals off the pace. Rating Bevo's performance this season

Ticks
Players seem to be playing for him and putting in the effort after a shaky start in this area.

The question is does he have the list to be doing a bit better or a lot better. We have had a few injuries but overall we are faring reasonably well in this area so no excuse in this here.

Goalkicking Accuracy is poor but it is hard to blame the coach for this.

Minuses

Gameplan has improved this season but we still leak to many goals and are not able to retain the ball in our forward half and are to easily scored against if we lose possession in our forward 50.

Selection is often hard to fathom went to tall early, plays favourites with the likes of Hannan and McNeill and the continued selection of JOD when he is not ready is very strange.

List

A lot journos really rate our list. Yes we have enough A graders but lack depth, some additional speed and another quality tall defender although we to have one in Naughton but seems that would robbing Peter to pay Paul.

To get a pass this season need to win at least one final, 2 would be a B+ anymore would be A and a flag would be A+++

To miss the finals with this list would be rather large failure and questioned if he should continue as coach.