Domestic Violence and AFL

[Hodgepodge]

Yeah yeah. The amount of domestic violence towards males is understated massively.

Does domestic violence include child abuse? I was at various times beaten with a vacuum cleaner pipe, and held at knifepoint by my mother as a child, is this domestic violence?

 

[domus]

Could I ask you whether you think terrorism in Australia is a national emergency? Something that needs a national response with radically expanded powers for ASIO and the police? I assure you it is relevant.

It's a very false analogy. We have a terrorist group with has officially declared that we are the enemy and urging its loyal followers to hack to death any one they come across any time, any place. I know of no group of Australian males who have issued an edict stating it is there intention to murder as many women they may stumble across in the name of their movement. This would give the police and army a specific target and specific threats. Eg. At the G tomorrow the place will be swarming with security and police to protect us from possible terrorist attacks. Do you think this approach can be used effectively in the fight against DV? I might add that men are also being murdered by their female partners. A man was stabbed to death on the weekend by his female partner.

If you wish to play the numbers game FAR more men are murdered each year than women yer I have never heard this crime declared a national emergency. Approximately 2000 men kill themselves each year. I've never hear this be referred to as a national emergency for our men. Why?

 

[domus]

Good riddance!

 

[domus]

Does domestic violence include child abuse? I was at various times beaten with a vacuum cleaner pipe, and held at knifepoint by my mother as a child, is this domestic violence?

Of course it is. My best mate suffered the most horrendous abuse at the hands of his mum-both physical and sexual and he is damaged goods to this day. He only just found the courage to tell me after many years because he said he felt ashamed that his own mother would do that to him and had never heard any one talk about women doing these things. He is the tip of the iceberg. Abusive dads-everyone will happily accept their existence and believe anyone who tells of their abuse at the hands of dad. Sexual abuse or physical abuse at the hands of mum/aunty etc..people don't readily accept this.

This is why threads like this are important. It is sadly more common than anyone would care to believe-still a small minority (just as male abusers are.)

I'm sorry you endured such a childhood.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Actually Julia was vilified on the basis of gender, "ditch the witch" was a heavily gender-driven agenda.

How so? I thought it was just a rhyme. Ditch rhymes with witch.

 

[Hodgepodge]

This is why threads like this are important. It is sadly more common than anyone would care to believe-still a small minority (just as male abusers are.)

I'm sorry you endured such a childhood.

You make some good points and are right in many ways, but I think you are needlessly angry about certain things. There are double-standards which have evolved over the years, but there are certain reasons for this. For example maybe we are particularly cognizant of women's issues because they had been ignored in the past. The pendulum will swing back towards the centre pretty soon and we'll view both gender's issues as equally significant.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Does domestic violence include child abuse? I was at various times beaten with a vacuum cleaner pipe, and held at knifepoint by my mother as a child, is this domestic violence?

Domestic Violence historically was referring to partner-on-partner violence, but the terminology has moved to Family Violence, which includes violence between different members of a family, current or ex-partners and anyone living in the same home (flatmates etc). I think child abuse stands slightly outside of that, but is essentially the same thing.

Semantics aside, what your mum did to you is definitely child abuse and quite horrific at that.

 

[domus]

I'm sure there's an argument in there somewhere for a double standard between genders and domestic violence, but the language you've used to write that article makes it sound more like an embittered rant against THE GYNOCRACY rather than any kind of reasoned perspective worth debating.

Oh so next time I see an outrageous example of double standards which greatly harm the individuals involved I'll be sure not to be angry about it. If you cannot see the sickeningly different standards we hold for men and women in our society after reading the article and watching the clips you never will. If all you can comment on is my anger and not the disgraceful clips I linked........

 

[Hodgepodge]

Domestic Violence historically was referring to partner-on-partner violence, but the terminology has moved to Family Violence, which includes violence between different members of a family, current or ex-partners and anyone living in the same home (flatmates etc). I think child abuse stands slightly outside of that, but is essentially the same thing.

Semantics aside, what your mum did to you is definitely child abuse and quite horrific at that.

I could go on with more examples. Telling me that her friends asked her if I was mentally handicapped, yelling that she would ****ing kill me, and so forth. This is the kind of treatment that I am unsure how to categorize, yet I feel that if it happened within the context of a spousal relationship towards a female partner, that it would be called domestic violence as well.

The funny thing about it is that she is actually a pretty temperate and likeable person most of the time.

 

[Hodgepodge]

Oh so next time I see an outrageous example of double standards which greatly harm the individuals involved I'll be sure not to be angry about it.

Double standards take time to right themselves, I wouldn't rail too hard against them, it's a fruitless exercise for one person to take on, particularly with your somewhat militant approach.

 

[Chief]

If you wish to play the numbers game FAR more men are murdered each year than women yer I have never heard this crime declared a national emergency. Approximately 2000 men kill themselves each year. I've never hear this be referred to as a national emergency for our men. Why?

I don't know. You tell me.

That we see so much intrusive legislation and police action brought to bear on a problem that costs the lives of about 3 people per year on average is absolutely incredible.

I posit that the fact that politicians feel like their pay cheques and political power are in the sights of totally random nutters, if not their lives, gives speical impetus to get these laws passed.

If it were politicians dying at the hands of their spouses, or by their own hand, at a disproportionate rate domestic violence and male suicide would be declared a national emergency.

Stop blaming your fellow citizens. The politicians are the real problem.

 

[domus]

You make some good points and are right in many ways, but I think you are needlessly angry about certain things. There are double-standards which have evolved over the years, but there are certain reasons for this. For example maybe we are particularly cognizant of women's issues because they had been ignored in the past. The pendulum will swing back towards the centre pretty soon and we'll view both gender's issues as equally significant.

This is yet another myth. Of course women suffered oppression in the past-but so did men! Men were expected to slave away in dirty dangerous physical labor which often saw them killed or badly injured. They toiled away in mines and in the field while the woman raised the kids and cared for the home. Men were expected to go and fight in wars they had no say in and were butchered or returned minus limbs.

It was men who freed women from the home and their biology by inventing the pill. It was men who invented all the labor saving devices for the home which gave women more time for themselves- refrigerators, ovens , washing machines........not bad for so called oppressors. men dominated the workforce because they were expected to bring home the bacon for the wife and kids. I could go on...

Sadly for men, our roles have not changed but women have many choices-work part time, have a career , be a stay at home mum. Men can work full time or..work full time.

Biology bound women to the home-not male oppression. Even today, in supposed hot beds of female oppression eg Afghanistan-men are treated with more brutality than the women. They are executed and tortured at a far higher rate, they die years earlier (like here) and they are used a slave labor in neighbouring countries-sending the little they earn home to their families. But we only hear of the harships inflcited on the women.

When Boko Haram (the terrorist group) kidnapped the 200 schoolgirls the whole world went into a meltdown over this female oppression. No-one gave a damn that this same terrorist group had already butchered hundreds of school boys many burned alive or hacked to death with machetes. We sawthe "Bring home Our Girls !" campaign with all the celebrities and Barak Obama pledging troops and search parties..

To this day the murder of these boys has barely rated a mention in our mainstream media-on every occasion the girls were allowed to go home unharmed. This is jsut another example of the invisibility of male suffering.

 

[domus]

[QUOTE="Chief, post: 35339272, member: 5766"]I don't know. You tell me.

That we see so much intrusive legislation and police action brought to bear on a problem that costs the lives of about 3 people per year on average is absolutely incredible.

I posit that the fact that politicians feel like their pay cheques and political power are in the sights of totally random nutters, if not their lives, gives speical impetus to get these laws passed.

If it were politicians dying at the hands of their spouses, or by their own hand, at a disproportionate rate domestic violence and male suicide would be declared a national emergency.

Stop blaming your fellow citizens. The politicians are the real problem.[/QUOTE]

I've been telling you. Our media, our government and our society simply care less about male suffering. I ask you-if 2000 women were killing themselves each year do you think it would get more focus than men are at the moment? Articles about the glass ceiling have been given more print space than male homelessness . suicide or workplace deaths What does this tell you? if you wish to see the true inequity, just flip the genders and see how it would pan out.

 

[Chief]

I've been telling you. Our media, our government and our society simply care less about male suffering.

They kinda don't.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Of course it is. My best mate suffered the most horrendous abuse at the hands of his mum-both physical and sexual and he is damaged goods to this day. He only just found the courage to tell me after many years because he said he felt ashamed that his own mother would do that to him and had never heard any one talk about women doing these things. He is the tip of the iceberg. Abusive dads-everyone will happily accept their existence and believe anyone who tells of their abuse at the hands of dad. Sexual abuse or physical abuse at the hands of mum/aunty etc..people don't readily accept this.

This is why threads like this are important. It is sadly more common than anyone would care to believe-still a small minority (just as male abusers are.)

I'm sorry you endured such a childhood.

I'm not sure that's true. I think it's accepted that both men and women abuse children (physically, emotionally and sexually), but it's also generally accepted that male perpetrators far outweigh female perpetrators. Have a look at Figure 1 (at the bottom of the page) of this link - http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.html - which is about the relationship of a victim of child sexual abuse to the perpetrator. It shows that 0.8% of perpetrators are mothers/stepmothers and a further 0.9% are other female relatives. Compare that to 13.5% of perpetrators being fathers/stepfathers and a further 30.2% being other male relatives. Unfortunately the other groups in the chart (strangers, family friends, acquaintances etc) aren't broken down by gender.

Your friend's story is horrible and I'm glad that you've developed a strong relationship with him so that he trusts you enough to share something so difficult for him to deal with. But the anecdotal evidence (as heartbreaking as it is) doesn't change the fact that perpetrators are much, much, much more likely to be male than female.

 

[Nasma]

SOTY, good on you for doing something to support victims of domestic violence.

 

[worthy]

I'm not sure that's true. I think it's accepted that both men and women abuse children (physically, emotionally and sexually), but it's also generally accepted that male perpetrators far outweigh female perpetrators. Have a look at Figure 1 (at the bottom of the page) of this link - http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.html - which is about the relationship of a victim of child sexual abuse to the perpetrator. It shows that 0.8% of perpetrators are mothers/stepmothers and a further 0.9% are other female relatives. Compare that to 13.5% of perpetrators being fathers/stepfathers and a further 30.2% being other male relatives. Unfortunately the other groups in the chart (strangers, family friends, acquaintances etc) aren't broken down by gender.

Your friend's story is horrible and I'm glad that you've developed a strong relationship with him so that he trusts you enough to share something so difficult for him to deal with. But the anecdotal evidence (as heartbreaking as it is) doesn't change the fact that perpetrators are much, much, much more likely to be male than female.

Certainly the male perpetrator is far more likely to be reported.

 

[Docker Alyssa]

And that's because you and your 4 children weren't beaten to a pulp by a 6 ft 4 male, Locked in a boot and made to dig your own grave with a shot gun to your head.

I suppose it's futile to ask you not to take my view to heart, but it's certainly not measured to make an assumption where you don't know a persons history. I'm not sure we needed to hear the specifics of what happened. I have heard a lot of horror stories and DV is DV across the board - it's all abhorrent. I am not personally attached to the situation you speak of and a million other horrendous things have occurred in this world which are also wrong. Some of them to men, by women in DV cases.

That was the argument, and I'm not sure the point I'm making is or can be heard by you, but as it's a public forum for discussing and you are getting AFL figures to lend a name to an organization that doesn't actively support men equally? I chose to speak. I don't find it understandable that a survivor of DV who wishes to help victims like her could not have a want for male victims of DV to be helped. Didn't they go through DV trauma?

All just feels like 1970 is being played back here and now just with a mic instead of in secret.

 

[The Passenger]

When Boko Haram (the terrorist group) kidnapped the 200 schoolgirls the whole world went into a meltdown over this female oppression. No-one gave a damn that this same terrorist group had already butchered hundreds of school boys many burned alive or hacked to death with machetes. We sawthe "Bring home Our Girls !" campaign with all the celebrities and Barak Obama pledging troops and search parties..

i too thought it was a particularly unfair campaign. should have just ignored it.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Never realised my thread would cause 4 pages of heated discussion. Thanks for those who supported this thread and thanks to those who offered their opinions. I never intended debate to happen but I guess that's the risk you take when you post on the net. Our intentions are good and we are doing all we can. Thanks and have a great GF day.
SOTY

 

[STFU Donnie]

Congratulations to those who turned a worthy thread into a gender-based pissing contest.

 

[mottrain]

Congratulations to those who turned a worthy thread into a gender-based pissing contest.

Nothing near a pissin contest. It is simply that the OP obviously ignored one gender in a multi gender issue and as a result was called out for this.

 

[MC Bad Genius]

Certainly the male perpetrator is far more likely to be reported.

But that's essentially saying that your assumptions (with no evidential support) are more important than observable data, which undermines your whole argument. I'm not arguing that female perpetrators aren't under-reported - I simply don't know that to be true or not - but it would have to be a statistical anomaly of extraordinary proportions for your statement to have any relevance to the issue of child abuse at all.

Sorry for being a part of derailing the thread.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Nothing near a pissin contest. It is simply that the OP obviously ignored one gender in a multi gender issue and as a result was called out for this.

We did nothing of the sort. My wife started a foundation based on what inspired her and she focused on what she wanted to focus on. She is an inspiring woman who is both a victim and survivor of the most severe domestic violence you can imagine. She has every right to start and focus on what she has. The thousands she has already helped are testament to that as are the students she is educating. People should be ashamed of themselves for questioning the work she is doing.

 

[domus]

I'm not sure that's true. I think it's accepted that both men and women abuse children (physically, emotionally and sexually), but it's also generally accepted that male perpetrators far outweigh female perpetrators. Have a look at Figure 1 (at the bottom of the page) of this link - http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/421-440/tandi429.html - which is about the relationship of a victim of child sexual abuse to the perpetrator. It shows that 0.8% of perpetrators are mothers/stepmothers and a further 0.9% are other female relatives. Compare that to 13.5% of perpetrators being fathers/stepfathers and a further 30.2% being other male relatives. Unfortunately the other groups in the chart (strangers, family friends, acquaintances etc) aren't broken down by gender.

Your friend's story is horrible and I'm glad that you've developed a strong relationship with him so that he trusts you enough to share something so difficult for him to deal with. But the anecdotal evidence (as heartbreaking as it is) doesn't change the fact that perpetrators are much, much, much more likely to be male than female.

Sexual abuse by women is the final taboo. We are seeing more and more examples of female teachers abusing/raping young boys-something no-one would have believed ever happened 20 years ago. They still receive far lighter sentences than men. Here's a clip of female sexual abuse you may find interesting.




Physical abuse/emotional abuse perpetrated on children by women is as common as abuse by men. This is why I am bewildered by the absence of women as perpetrators in campaigns on child abuse.