Drafting Defenders

[Nightwolf]

I think it should be a priority this year and am extremely suprised more emphasis wasnt put on it last year.

Jordan Lisle is a great prospect, but we should have more. Hes a massive work in progress to.
If you think Schoenmakers will be a KPP, then think again, he will never be.

Not one in the rookie draft i thought was pretty ordinary drafting. In fact, i think our whole rookie draft in general was average.

I think we need to bite the bullet this year and have a look at some 19-24 year olds in the VFL, WAFL, SANFL etc. (Harry Taylor style) that could possibly hold a defensive spot at AFL level. Because i genuinely believe our situation currently is caused by the defence.

That or make a big play at Thursfield whos out of favour at Tigerland.

(Im not having a crack at our drafting at any means, its been brilliant, just stating the obvious needs)

 

[melb_will]

First response that springs to mind is No S Sherlock

However, facietiousness won't help here.

I do agree with you I just think we need to be a bit more practical.

One, our injuries at this stage are pretty extrodinary, if we draft more and more defenders to deal with an extrodinary situation you will eventually start to run light elsewhere.

Two, there aren't that many ready made KPP players available to be drafted. If they're not readymade then you run the risk of 1. above and 2. that they won't make it.

Three, you can only have 44 players on your list (I'm sure karma will make this wrong but it's around there). Please name which players will be delisted to make room for the new defenders - provided they are available.

 

[go hawks!!!]

I think it should be a priority this year and am extremely suprised more emphasis wasnt put on it last year.

Jordan Lisle is a great prospect, but we should have more. Hes a massive work in progress to.
If you think Schoenmakers will be a KPP, then think again, he will never be.

Not one in the rookie draft i thought was pretty ordinary drafting. In fact, i think our whole rookie draft in general was average.

I think we need to bite the bullet this year and have a look at some 19-24 year olds in the VFL, WAFL, SANFL etc. (Harry Taylor style) that could possibly hold a defensive spot at AFL level. Because i genuinely believe our situation currently is caused by the defence.

That or make a big play at Thursfield whos out of favour at Tigerland.

(Im not having a crack at our drafting at any means, its been brilliant, just stating the obvious needs)

simple L MARKOVIC

 

[Dannerz]

Perhaps we will take another look at that defender from the SANFL we were looking at last time. He missed the cut off for draft lodgment I think.

Can't for the life of me remember his name, but I think he came from Rick McGowan's former club.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I would definatly look at teams young defenders like Thursfield/Mcguane, or Martin/Garland, Wilkes from West Coast(is too good for WAFL, cant get a gig at the eagles) Chaplin at port(Carlisle seems to be their man)

A second round pick or even packaging our first round wouldnt hurt at all, Back up or even letting Croad spend the rest of his days as a third tall would be a luxuary we;ve never had.

 

[markr]

I think it should be a priority this year and am extremely suprised more emphasis wasnt put on it last year.

Schoenmakers, our first pick, was taken to be a tall defender, then Lisle with our third and Milne in the rookie draft. So two of our first three picks plus a rookie were used on tall defenders.

 

[WatWouldCyrilDo]

I would definatly look at teams young defenders like Thursfield/Mcguane, or Martin/Garland, Wilkes from West Coast(is too good for WAFL, cant get a gig at the eagles) Chaplin at port(Carlisle seems to be their man)

A second round pick or even packaging our first round wouldnt hurt at all, Back up or even letting Croad spend the rest of his days as a third tall would be a luxuary we;ve never had.

After Melbourne get their priority pick, I don't think we're going to get much with pick 17

 

[Consumed]

Schoenmakers, our first pick, was taken to be a tall defender, then Lisle with our third and Milne in the rookie draft. So two of our first three picks plus a rookie were used on tall defenders.

Don't let reality and an accurate historical perspective get in the way of Nightwolf's little tanty.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Would have thought that Lisle, Dowler and Schoey are all ear-marked as tall defenders, with all being 193cm+.

The club has also tried Murphy, Boyle and Thorp there with no success, and Brown with some when he was in red hot form. At least the club's trying.

Problem is, most of the top key defenders are gone after the first 10 - 12 picks and it becomes a bit of a gamble once you get into the second and third round picks.

Remember we also tried to lure Thornton and Mundy with no success.

 

[Rudi Gilham]

Perhaps we will take another look at that defender from the SANFL we were looking at last time. He missed the cut off for draft lodgment I think.

Can't for the life of me remember his name, but I think he came from Rick McGowan's former club.

That would be Michael Coad. I think he's about 25/26 yo though.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I think it should be a priority this year and am extremely suprised more emphasis wasnt put on it last year.

Jordan Lisle is a great prospect, but we should have more. Hes a massive work in progress to.
If you think Schoenmakers will be a KPP, then think again, he will never be.

Not one in the rookie draft i thought was pretty ordinary drafting. In fact, i think our whole rookie draft in general was average.

I think we need to bite the bullet this year and have a look at some 19-24 year olds in the VFL, WAFL, SANFL etc. (Harry Taylor style) that could possibly hold a defensive spot at AFL level. Because i genuinely believe our situation currently is caused by the defence.

That or make a big play at Thursfield whos out of favour at Tigerland.

(Im not having a crack at our drafting at any means, its been brilliant, just stating the obvious needs)

I made a thread about this topic earlier. In the thread I started I said that given Croad's age/injury and our over-supply of talls including Boyle, Thorp and Dowler, Renouf even - at least ONE should have been groomed for a KPD and given seniors time to develop their craft once Croad was a confirmed out for the early part of the year.

From what I've read, Lisle, Riley Milne and Shoenmakers could all be considered defensive recruits, although Shoey did play in the forward line more than defense as a junior.

I think we've got the long term plan and the 'right-now' plan, but no intermediate is killing us.

 

[Roughie]

This should have been the gameplan the second the staff realised Dawson would never cut it

 

[Nightwolf]

Don't let reality and an accurate historical perspective get in the way of Nightwolf's little tanty.

What a mature response.

If you had of read it, you would have seen the line where i said Schoenmakers is not a KPP. He is so far from that it isnt funny.

And Dowler? Hes a handy 3rd tall at best.


Our only genuine option is Lisle and he lacks a yard of pace. I see him a as Rutten type but not quick enough for Riewoldt type players.

Milne actually skipped my mind but as a rookie he has a stack of work to do.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I made a thread about this topic earlier. In the thread I started I said that given Croad's age/injury and our over-supply of talls including Boyle, Thorp and Dowler, Renouf even - at least ONE should have been groomed for a KPD and given seniors time to develop their craft once Croad was a confirmed out for the early part of the year.

From what I've read, Lisle, Riley Milne and Shoenmakers could all be considered defensive recruits, although Shoey did play in the forward line more than defense as a junior.

I think we've got the long term plan and the 'right-now' plan, but no intermediate is killing us.

Absolutely spot on LP.

Thought we would have at least rookied Markovic as insurance given he has been around the system for a couple of years but obviously he was not rated by the recruiters at all.

I dont look forward to reading the teams on thursday night and casting my eye over our backline at the moment. It is all over the place. I really want to see some more structure to the backline rather than having to see Murphy pinch hit against a tall and Hodge try to hold our backline together but as you have pointed out there is no alternative.

We are skinny on both KP options and genuine lock down defenders in general at the moment.

Schoey will be good but is too easily moved in the contest this year to play up back even as a 3rd tall. I think it could hurt his confidence if he was left to the wolves but you never know as he strikes me as a very switched on footballer.

Renouf will never be a key defender.

Campbell Brown cant play as a KP defender any more because of the chopping of the arms rule.

Hodge doesn't play on an opponent.

Birchall the same.

Maybe Dowler is the man but he also struggles to hold his ground in a contest. He ihas been ok offensively as the 3rd tall defender but in a contested situation he has not been convincing (but is improving).

Milne is a mile off body-wise.

Thorp is a mile off.

Lisle is a mile off but others may argue he is closer than that even if he is it is very wishful thinking that he could have an impact at AFL level.

I think Morton should be experimented with as a defender over several months (not get dropped after a few weeks) as he has the height and agility.

Tuck probably lacks the pace off the mark but has the tenacity.

Dew is ok to rotate thru at times but cant cover the ground well enough.

Havent seen enough of Walsh up back but from reports is a ruckman.

The defence cupboard is pretty bare with Laddo, Ellis (who surely has to go onto a back flank when fit), Croad, Guerra, Gilham and now Hodge all missing big chunks.

 

[Roger Rogerson]

I think it should be a priority this year and am extremely suprised more emphasis wasnt put on it last year.

Jordan Lisle is a great prospect, but we should have more. Hes a massive work in progress to.
If you think Schoenmakers will be a KPP, then think again, he will never be.

Not one in the rookie draft i thought was pretty ordinary drafting. In fact, i think our whole rookie draft in general was average.

I think we need to bite the bullet this year and have a look at some 19-24 year olds in the VFL, WAFL, SANFL etc. (Harry Taylor style) that could possibly hold a defensive spot at AFL level. Because i genuinely believe our situation currently is caused by the defence.

That or make a big play at Thursfield whos out of favour at Tigerland.

(Im not having a crack at our drafting at any means, its been brilliant, just stating the obvious needs)

Nightwolf - agree with the strategy as long as the Harry Taylor we get can actually play. The Geelong version cannot play and is one of the most overrated footballers running around (2008 grand final anyone?) He is the sort of player that I hope does well enough to hold his place come finals as you know when the real pressure comes he is not up to it. Unfortunately the other player I have in that category is our former pupil Z. Dawson and I am sure to be bashed by certain posters (lethals elbow??) for saying that but it is my humble opinion.

 

[grizzlym]

[/b]


I think Morton should be experimented with as a defender over several months (not get dropped after a few weeks) as he has the height and agility.

that's a really interesting call. he's certainly an intriguing package with his build and running ability. you might have something there. might he and Dowler rotate on Pavlich perhaps?

 

[Goldnbrown]

What a mature response.

If you had of read it, you would have seen the line where i said Schoenmakers is not a KPP. He is so far from that it isnt funny.

NW you say that with such certainty, why do you think this?

 

[Donnybrook]

It's been mention before in other threads, but the concessions given to GC in the coming years mature aged recruits will be the focus for most sides.

From a WA perspective the players aged 22-25 tend to chase money in the country leagues instead of sticking it out in the WAFL. There is still some untapped talent waiting to be picked up.

Our most pressing need is a shut down defender, similar to Croad. Trinity Handley from Claremont is a player I'd look at in this regard. Mature body, competitive and hits hard.

 

[GoBuddy]

This should have been the gameplan the second the staff realised Dawson would never cut it

Its actually hurts me seeing Dawson playing so well for the Saints. And knowing we could have used him at hawthorn right now!

 

[Clinic]

I think we are forgetting, or perhaps discounting, the effect of a very good midfield and the effect of successfully implementing the zone - things we seem to be lacking in this year.

If you remember the back line was thought to be weak last year, and arguably it was, but due to the pressure on the other team by our midfield and zone it was never really tested. As you also might remember when teams did manage to penetrate our zone they would often wind up with an uncontested mark/easy goal (something that Essendon seemed to do time and time again).
What seems to be killing us is:
- poor passing coming out of defence (due to no gilham/no guerra/no ladson/no ellis/hodge underperforming and, it must be said, murphy consistently making a couple of howlers a match),
- sloppy handballing through the middle (due to young players finding their feet including tuck/moss/dowler and players like sewell/lewis/bateman/mitchell/hodge either being not totally fit yet or underperforming, as well as no ellis),
- no run through the middle (due to bateman underperforming and no young) which lets the defence more time to set up, and to add insult to injury...
- poor passing into our forward line (this one is the most troubling/confusing but is still most likely due to bateman/mitchell/hodge/lewis underperforming or not totally fit yet and no ellis/no young)

While there were a couple of contested marks won by Essendon players, which is really unforgivable, it is not where we have been conceding most of our goals, and while I do agree that extra big bodied backmen (such as dawson) would be useful I believe players with class who can kick/handball accurately and players who have the fitness/speed to set up the zone properly are of higher importance.

As they say, the days of 1-on-1 football are basically over.

 

[hawker39]

Nightwolf - yes it is disappointing that we have no KPP defenders now but last years draft was about this.

Schoenmakers - drafted with the notion of converting him to a key defender. That position is full back where his excellent closing speed will be utilised. He is for the Fevola types.

Lisle is the bigger type key defender that can probably cope with a Roughead style player in time.

Milne - rookie KPP defender. Always a bit of pot luck with rookies but we do have one.

If they become good then the draft was a success for defenders.

The 2009 draft has to be about midfield speed and run and carry players. We need to diversify the midlle of the field and add to the plodders/clearance players of Hodge, Mitchell, Tuck and Lewis.

We have a need for speed.

 

[carntheroos4eva]

Zac Dawson anyone?

 

[Mcchawk]

I very much like Melbourne's backline players and would be prepared for a pick and a player to get the deal over the line.

At this stage only player who I can think of is Thorp. But the question is would they take him?

 

[spudley14]

what about any of these three blokes they always seem to be in the best for their clubs
Sam Pleming/port melbourne/D.O.B: 5 Aug 1985/Height: 194cm/Weight: 83kg
Alex Silvagni/casey scorpions/D.O.B: 29 Sep 1987/Height: 192cm/Weight: 92kg
James Wall/casey scorpions/D.O.B: 5 Jan 1987 /Height: 198cm/Weight: 90kg

 

[Consumed]

What a mature response.

If you had of read it, you would have seen the line where i said Schoenmakers is not a KPP. He is so far from that it isnt funny.

And Dowler? Hes a handy 3rd tall at best.


Our only genuine option is Lisle and he lacks a yard of pace. I see him a as Rutten type but not quick enough for Riewoldt type players.

Milne actually skipped my mind but as a rookie he has a stack of work to do.

I disagree. Schoenmakers is 18 or 19. He has the height, attitude and talent to become a KPD. But it will take several years of development to fill out before he can assume that position.

Lisle may or may not make it. Our list has several players deemed to o slow to play AFL. Campbell Brown being the notable one. But speed can be developed and improved. Lisle has the other requisites, also the innate ability to read the play well and this is a skill that is difficult to learn.

Milne, slipped your mind. Fair enough.

And you are right, immature response, but your post was worthy of a little dig. Your first line states you were, "extremely surprised at no emphasis" and finish your post with "our brilliant drafting".
Come on. 3 out of 4 players drafted can fill defensive positions. Your tone suggest you were a little put out we didn't get a ready made, mature defender. NEWSFLASH! No other club apart from the Saints did either.

Good ol' Zac, hey?

No hard feelings though Nightwolf, I was just having a lend.