Play Nice Eddie McGuire comments on holding Caro Wilson underwater

[momentbymoment]

It's absolutely under siege, e.g. RI has been replaced with 'Safe Schools' and other decadent nonsense.

None of which means I associate with McGuire's comments.

What is RI?

 

[Scotland]

End of the day - if I walked up to McGuire, Brayshaw or Frawley, and 'joked' that I wanted to drown their wife or sister or daughter etc, they'd want to punch on with me.

Why make it about women? What if you walked up to Eddie, JB or Spud and 'joked' that you wanted to drown them?

They didn't joke about Caro's daughter or sister or mum or great aunt twice removed.

 

[FuManchu]

Hope you never turn on TV during prime time and accidentally see 75% of all TV shows and movies. You'd be horrified.

Do they come with a classification?

 

[barmy44]

Take a tour of the northern suburbs of Adelaide and let those people know how privileged they should feel for being white.

no one claims that all white people are rich lords of the manor by virtue of their colour, that's a fair over-reach on your part...

but historically, privilege has always been stacked in favour of a certain type of human. it doesnt mean each member of that class will 'crush life', but they also wont experience, and will generally struggle to understand, what it is truly like to have the odds stacked against you.

 

[FuManchu]

What is RI?

Retrospective idiocy

 

[benneth]

Have another ciggy, Caro!

 

[ZingerB]

There really isn't.
The myth that white men have it easy is naive. Maybe a lot do. I certainly don't complain about my lot in life, despite working for it.
But that doesn't excuse anyone from picking me out as a target for inappropriate comments.

It doesn't matter who this was about.
The fact Caro is a woman is besides the point. It may be an underlying factor, but I'm not privy to the inside info on Caro and Ed's relationship.

This was simple bullying.
It was a group of people who didn't like Caro having a crack about holding her under water.
Do i believe they'd do it? No
Does it set a bad example for the rest of the community? Yes it does.
It deserves a firm rebuke. I bet Ed wouldn't see this as harmless fun if one of his kids was on the end of this sort of treatment at school.

The problem is the more you point fingers the more people will dig in their heels. I thought it was pretty average and if the criticism was presented in the same manner as you described, I think a lot more people would be on Caro's side (or at least not defending Eddie). But it wasn't. Meanwhile we are bombarded with messages about how we all get together and form marauding rape gangs that go around murdering women and told that every little unintentional slight makes us (a) a monster and b) a misogynist. If you approach an issue with common sense you might actually be well received. Case in point - the actor from Seinfield saying 'cricket is gay'. He copped stick from his friends who actually explained the significance of the comment (e.g the depression, the suicide, the constant fear and rejection) and even though the comment was minor it had the potential for harm. The actor then gave what appeared to be a genuine heartfelt apology and appears to have had some personal growth in the matter. Or you can just go out and attack everyone in sight and they will tell you to get ****ed. More to the point ... Eddie and co don't owe an apology to anyone other than Wilson. Frawley has already apologised privately to her, so as far as I am concerned, the matter is closed for him. They don't have to apologise for all the horrible things men have done to women over the years, and they don't have to apologise to anyone else. Everyone revels in the spectacle of someone they don't like coming hat in hand and falling on their sword in public and they like to feel outrage. That says as much about who they are as a person as it does about Eddie.

 

[Farm Boy]

My biggest disappointment is controversy/negativity being loosely associated with the Big Freeze.

No doubt they would be questioning the worth of using the AFL as a platform to raise funds.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Given she mentions the old boys club quite often. I think it's a valid complaint. Given the wet tram ticket that McLaughlin hit McGuire with today, I'd say it only reinforces the impression.

Again though, this isn't the point. You state that Caro faces libel litigation if she gets it wrong. Given that she reports fiction as fact rather frequently, when has this ever happened? She should have been walked after the blatant lies about James Hird that were reported as fact. The fact that she gets away with this sort of stuff time and time again is going to alienate people. She attempts to create the story when her job is to report the truth and in the process she repeatedly bites the hands that feed her.

Obviously Eddie doesn't like her. I can see why. She lies, she passes off opinion as fact and she clearly pushes a self-serving agenda. Clearly there was a little bit of heavy-handedness in the comments made but if the essence of gender equality is the equal treatment of both sexes then you need to ask yourself if you would be so outraged if these comments were directed at a male journalist.

Look at motive first, everything else comes after that.

 

[SaintJesus]

What does this have to do with her being female? He doesn't like her so he said something dumb intended as a joke about her. He shouldn't have said it and you could argue it was bullying but he never brought her sex into it and there was never the implication he didn't like her because of it.

Sorry, moving on from the lovely Pauline Hanson throwing her well meaning support behind the banter king Edward "It was only a joke" McGuire.

He actually did bring sex (calling her a "black widow") but even if you do remove that, it is unequivocally a commentary gang tackle where with four panelists chuckling and fueling the scenario of killing a women. When is this even remotely funny? So she writes some harsh articles about him. Poor Eddie. And yes, it would still bring a degree of offence if it was women talking about a male but you (the thinkingman's man) would imagine a number of people take it a bit more seriously when 1 in 3 women have been assaulted over their lifetime (1 in 5 sexually assaulted) and over 1 million women experienced physical or sexual assault by their male current (or ex-partner) in Australia in a 12 month period. Below I have inserted some more fun statistics from the ABS's personal safety survey. These are not statistical anomalies.. and jokes/commentary like Eddie McGuire's reflect and reinforce poor attitudes - they excuse discrimination against women that underpin such acts. If no one speaks up when a sexist comment (or joke) is made, it sends a message that this behavior is okay to the community.

Mindsets need to challenged. Not palmed off as a light hearted joke. It is hard to believe I have to explain this to anyone with half a brain in the 21st century.

 

[PumpyChowdown]

What is RI?

Religion Instructions

Where paedophiles diddle your children under the guise of "moral guidance".

 

[kickazz]

Children between 3 and 5 also eat their own snot, write on walls and try to stick stuff in electrical sockets. Are you honestly suggesting they're the purest exemplars of the true nature of humanity? If violence was biological you'd see consistent rates across the global human population but compare domestic violence in Australia with Saudi Arabia and try telling me the problem AND solution isn't cultural.

No no no. Read what you said (about biology not being a casual factor), then read what i said (about saying it is). None of this "point and look somewhere else here's some irrelevant facts"

Testosterone pays a part. Boys tend to be biologically more aggressive than girls.

I used young children as examples because even before they get a chance to have gender stereotypes imprinted in their brains (the latest science suggests men and women are wired the same) through the rewarding and discouragement of various behavior, boys are manifestly more aggressive than girls, due to testosterone.

 

[SuperSteele22]

I just popped in to say that McGuire's AND Frawley's comments had absolutely nothing to do with Caro's gender. Zero.

Foolish? Yes.

Insensitive? Absolutely.

Sexist? Get off your f***ing high horses.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So the point is that it was bad taste, and not that they were making violent threats towards a woman and perpetuating domestic violence?

I would agree. I would also imagine that this would lead to a 3 page thread, not a 50 page thread.

Hundreds of participants, some expressing outrage, some attacking them for feeling outraged. Some suggesting it was just a joke, others attacking them for trivialising the issue.

You might expect a thread to win up quickly if everybody is on the same page, but there is not 50 pages of outraged posting here. Plenty of give and take.

 

[ZingerB]

The topic involved what they would do to her is she was in the ice water.

About a hypothetical that they had no intention of carrying out.

 

[Lazix]

no one claims that all white people are rich lords of the manor by virtue of their colour, that's a fair over-reach on your part...

No, he used his personal experience as if to suggest it as the norm. Otherwise why bring it up?

 

[citizen-erased]

In isolation it's sad, but it's a response to being under siege.

The monarchy, the church, men... targets of New Age Australia.

Im white. mid-30s, good salary, privileged education, male.
I was brought up roman catholic with devout grandparents.
My inlaws are english who identify strongly with their homeland and the monarchy.

At no point in my life have i ever felt under siege
Gender equality is not yet real, despite the yards its gained back.
The church is reaping the comeuppance of a lot of what its sewn and its current pope recognises this.
The question of monarchy vs republic is one for the country and a legitimate one

the 21st century has sprung from its seed and out dated thinking is dying a timely death.

 

[hawks787]

against my better judgment, i will weigh in with my view on this... context is everything. were neales comments made in a nasty fashion far removed from eddie himself with 3 other guys guffawing it up and egging it on, or were they made arm around shoulder, laughing together?

i daresay neales comments on the day held zero venom and were shared with eddie himself, as opposed to the rather lengthy transcript from MMM including volunteering to hold her under, to sell tickets to bomb her while she was held under, and the reference to her being a 'black widow' that will suck you dry if you let her.

there is clearly a difference in two mates ribbing each other while the 'big slide' took place, and 4 guys laughing and egging each other on in a persons absence.

please correct me if neales comment was actually made in a different context.

Some fair points and I agree with some.
Having listened to the comments there was lots of laughter involved, were they really said that nasty?
So Daniher can rib with Ed and it's all funny?
Tony can rib with Caro and it's all good because they are mates?
My point is where is the controversy from saying it's ok to keep Ed under water?
We can drown Ed, but not Caro?
Much like you it's very hard and scary to comment for fear of backlash due to the many double standards of Australia.

 

[ZingerB]

Lol.
As a white male I don't feel like a victim. I don't get discriminated against and I don't fear violence. Life is actually pretty awesome.

Do you feel like a victim? If so, maybe that's where you need to put your focus.

Come back to me when you have been assaulted repeatedly and told that despite this, you are still what's wrong with the world.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Sounds like you're on board with hanging Caro for being a journalist though. Worse type of bully my ass lol

Another one who doesn't get it.

 

[Ron The Bear]

What is RI?

Religious Instruction/Religious Education. Was never too keen on it myself, but the prosperity you enjoy today was built on Christian philosophy.

 

[moogerfooger]

About a hypothetical that they had no intention of carrying out.

so was his gag about Adam Goodes promoting King Kong - doesn't make it acceptable.

 

[FuManchu]

Again though, this isn't the point. You state that Caro faces libel litigation if she gets it wrong. Given that she reports fiction as fact rather frequently, when has this ever happened? She should have been walked after the blatant lies about James Hird that were reported as fact. The fact that she gets away with this sort of stuff time and time again is going to alienate people. She attempts to create the story when her job is to report the truth and in the process repeatedly bites the hands that feed her.

Obviously Eddie doesn't like her. I can see why. She lies, she passes off opinion as fact and she clearly pushes a self-serving agenda. Clearly there was a little bit of heavy-handedness in the comments made but if the essence of gender equality is the equal treatment of both sexes then you need to ask yourself if your would be so outraged if these comments were directed at a male journalist.

Look at motive first, everything else comes after that.

All journos, indeed all of us face that threat. Her profession is most particularly at risk from such action. Her employment is at risk if she gets it wrong too often or indeed if she deliberately sets out to mislead or defame.

And she has fronted and apologised and retracted stories in the past she has admitted she got wrong. Which is more than others in the industry do. So I don't have one issue with her integrity. You can dismiss that all you want. Opinions are a wonderful thing.

 

[Goats]

I ER

 

[Fat Nyfe]

Bullying yes. Sexism no. End of.