Play Nice Eddie McGuire comments on holding Caro Wilson underwater

[Ron The Bear]

Im white. mid-30s, good salary, privileged education, male.
I was brought up roman catholic with devout grandparents.
My inlaws are english who identify strongly with their homeland and the monarchy.

At no point in my life have i ever felt under siege
Gender equality is not yet real, despite the yards its gained back.
The church is reaping the comeuppance of a lot of what its sewn and its current pope recognises this.
The question of monarchy vs republic is one for the country and a legitimate one

the 21st century has sprung from its seed and out dated thinking is dying a timely death.

So you've never read feminist insinuations in the mainstream press that, as a male, you are a prospective rapist?

 

[citizen-erased]

It's absolutely under siege, e.g. RI has been replaced with 'Safe Schools' and other decadent nonsense.

None of which means I associate with McGuire's comments.

shakes head

How can you think Safe Schools is decadent nonsense
While its still in its teething stage, its about coaching young people through the challenges of growing up and giving them people to talk to about issues they may be facing..

 

[Santana]

The amount of benevolent sexism in here is insane.

Women and men are equal, but you should treat women special. How does that work again?

It isn't the 19th century anymore guys. It's time to get rid of your sexist attitudes and treat women as equals.

 

[Saintt]

Sorry, moving on from the lovely Pauline Hanson throwing her well meaning support behind the banter king Edward "It was only a joke" McGuire.

He actually did bring sex (calling her a "black widow") but even if you do remove that, it is unequivocally a commentary gang tackle where with four panelists chuckling and fueling the scenario of killing a women. When is this even remotely funny? So she writes some harsh articles about him. Poor Eddie. And yes, it would still bring a degree of offence if it was women talking about a male but you (the thinkingman's man) would imagine a number of people take it a bit more seriously when 1 in 3 women have been assaulted over their lifetime (1 in 5 sexually assaulted) and over 1 million women experienced physical or sexual assault by their male current (or ex-partner) in Australia in a 12 month period. Below I have inserted some more fun statistics from the ABS's personal safety survey. These are not statistical anomalies.. and jokes/commentary like Eddie McGuire's reflect and reinforce poor attitudes - they excuse discrimination against women that underpin such acts. If no one speaks up when a sexist comment (or joke) is made, it sends a message that this behavior is okay to the community.

Mindsets need to challenged. Not palmed off as a light hearted joke. It is hard to believe I have to explain this to anyone with half a brain in the 21st century.

View attachment 258726

You take the domestic out of "domestic violence" and males are bigger victims. Shouldn't the focus be on violence in general?

 

[barmy44]

Some fair points and I agree with some.
Having listened to the comments there was lots of laughter involved, were they really said that nasty?
So Daniher can rib with Ed and it's all funny?
Tony can rib with Caro and it's all good because they are mates?
My point is where is the controversy from saying it's ok to keep Ed under water?
We can drown Ed, but not Caro?
Much like you it's very hard and scary to comment for fear of backlash due to the many double standards of Australia.

in my view, the contexts between the two is a world apart. in isolation, both are about drowning. in context, one seems like a joke shared; the other a joke at someones expense.

for example, ricky gervais in his stand up regularly calls his audience 'c***s' and 'scum'. they laugh - it is his schtick, and theyre in on it. however, it would be very poorly received if he was overheard referring to his fans in such a way in private. he would probably lose a lot.

another example is calling your best friend a 'f***head' to his face while laughing. provided you know each other well, should be fine between you two. if they found out you called them that in private with 3 others, behind your friends back, they might think there was more to it.

purely in my view, the two comments by neale and eddie are not like-for-like. context is important.

 

[Ron The Bear]

shakes head

How can you think Safe Schools is decadent nonsense
While its still in its teething stage, its about coaching young people through the challenges of growing up and giving them people to talk to about issues they may be facing..

These are the sort of deviants behind it.

http://drnikki.com.au/why-anal-is-the-new-blow-job/

There was a link to this article on The Age website.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I just popped in to say that McGuire's AND Frawley's comments had absolutely nothing to do with Caro's gender. Zero.

Foolish? Yes.

Insensitive? Absolutely.

Sexist? Get off your f***ing high horses.

I think the gender issues came into it because they chose to engage in a bit of schoolyard bullying in a week where gender diversity in the AFL was being championed and domestic violence causes were being supported, and the recipient of that bullying was a female.

Stupid and ill timed. That's not to say it was sexist, it just gave rise to the issue coming up and offense is in the eye of the beholder. I see other female journalists getting offended by it and again, they have more experience in the area that most men do so how to we tell them there is nothing to be offended about?

I look at that domestic violence ad they have been smashing us with showing the dad saying to his son, 'don't throw like a girl' or the teenage boy closing the door in her face i.e exclusion, lack of respect. The message obviously is that violence starts with a lack of respect.

I think their discussion did one of a few things to those that were made aware:

1. ambivalence -
2. amusement at Wilson's expense
3. agreement - she's a shocking journalist, she deserves to cop some
4. outrage

I'd say at least 3 of those things are things the AFL didn't want to occur during the last week.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

All journos, indeed all of us face that threat. Her profession is most particularly at risk from such action. Her employment is at risk if she gets it wrong too often or indeed if she deliberately sets out to mislead or defame.

And she has fronted and apologised and retracted stories in the past she has admitted she got wrong. Which is more than others in the industry do. So I don't have one issue with her integrity. You can dismiss that all you want. Opinions are a wonderful thing.

And to the rest of my post, had Robbo been the subject of this puerile attempt at humour would you be equally outraged?

If the answer is no, then why is Caro entitled to be treated differently? Is this not hypocrisy by it's dictionary definition and entirely against what gender equality stands for?

Or, to go the other argument which is possibly more valid, is it your contention that these antics promote domestic violence? If so, please explain it to me because I cannot see how this episode would lead to even one instance of domestic violence. I am happy to be educated but it will take a lot more than the teeth gnashing and wailing going on in here.

Like I said, stupid, yes. Uncalled for, definitely......but a complete overreaction as far as I can see.

 

[Kabana]

Most white males have never experienced these things and have never thought much about them, compared to people who regularly face discrimination. Like most things, people who are more educated on a topic are correct more often than people who aren't.

Ahh, white privilege. Where would I be without it?

This whole thing is just another excuse for SJW like our mate here to pile on a wealthy, successful white male over the latest fad - domestic violence.

Of course, by fad I mean the latest issue for SJW to use to virtue signal about. 20 years ago it they would all be tweeting about the hole in the ozone layer, but that's entirely too retro to mention these days.

McGuire can be a boofhead at times, but I find it hard to link him talking about a couple of bombs/cannonballs in a pool to him drinking a bottle of Ol' Rotgut and punching her around the head

 

[TimothyJ23]

My favourite is those on social media encouraging Ed & co to "get in the sea".

Somehow that's ok vernacular?

 

[citizen-erased]

So you've never read feminist insinuations in the mainstream press that, as a male, you are a prospective rapist?

plenty of them
I dismiss them along with the same rants White supremacists make about foreigners taking over the world, bigots make about the evil threat of homosexuality and just about any other nonsense people write where a broad brush is taken to define groups of people

The theory is not without basis, but its clumsy and half baked, and if thats what you want to bring to a discussion, i have better things like Playstation to occupy myself with
Are males prospective rapists? Of course we are. Why? because we can rape people.
Ask a better question, why does anyone rape anyone? When you do, ill be interested in the discussion

 

[madmug]

All journos, indeed all of us face that threat. Her profession is most particularly at risk from such action. Her employment is at risk if she gets it wrong too often or indeed if she deliberately sets out to mislead or defame.

And she has fronted and apologised and retracted stories in the past she has admitted she got wrong. Which is more than others in the industry do. So I don't have one issue with her integrity. You can dismiss that all you want. Opinions are a wonderful thing.

I agree CW has more cred than most of the lick spittle AFL media boys could ever hope to have.

For the record I'm disappointed in Eddie & his boys club mentality. Also the rest of them need to apologise unreservedly. No excuses. It was dumb & goes against what needs to happen in respect to women in society. Its too easy for the ego trippers to fob such comments off. Its just not good enough behavior for a so called media professional.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

in my view, the contexts between the two is a world apart. in isolation, both are about drowning. in context, one seems like a joke shared; the other a joke at someones expense.

for example, ricky gervais in his stand up regularly calls his audience 'c***s' and 'scum'. they laugh - it is his schtick, and theyre in on it. however, it would be very poorly received if he was overheard referring to his fans in such a way in private.

another example is calling your best friend a 'f***head' to his face while laughing. provided you know each other well, should be fine between you two. if they found out you called them that in private with 3 others, behind your friends back, they might think there was more to it.

purely in my view, the two comments by neale and eddie are not like-for-like.

Exactly that. Now knowing that Caro doesn't have a particularly friendly relationship with some of these football personalities, if she was on her show suggesting that Eddie should be held underwater or we should charged people to bomb him from the sides, would we think that came from a place of spite or humour?

 

[The_Ru]

These days we're wanting to raise little boys like little girls.

I'd say right from the start males are under siege from the start.

And here you betray the fact that you fundamentally do not believe in equality.

 

[barmy44]

These are the sort of deviants behind it.

http://drnikki.com.au/why-anal-is-the-new-blow-job/

There was a link to this article on The Age website.

well off topic, but anal sex is not deviant behavior. if two consenting adults want to do it together, power to them.

 

[kneecapper]

No no no. Read what you said (about biology not being a casual factor), then read what i said (about saying it is). None of this "point and look somewhere else here's some irrelevant facts"

Testosterone pays a part. Boys tend to be biologically more aggressive than girls.

I used young children as examples because even before they get a chance to have gender stereotypes imprinted in their brains (the latest science suggests men and women are wired the same) through the rewarding and discouragement of various behavior, boys are manifestly more aggressive than girls, due to testosterone.

Do you have children? I don't know any who aren't heavily exposed to any cultural influence even as young as the strangely arbitrary age of 3. They aren't growing up in a vacuum. They are constantly absorbing things from their playmates, the media they consume, the toys they are provided and, most importantly, their parents.

I sorta don't really know what you're arguing here. It kinda seems like you're trying to excuse violence because of hormones which makes me pretty uneasy. Do boys have more testosterone than girls? Yes. Is having additional testosterone more of an influence on whether someone becomes a violent person than, say, growing up in a violent or misoginistic household? Probably not. If it was you'd see consistent rates of violent men coming from all socio-economic classes.

 

[hawks787]

in my view, the contexts between the two is a world apart. in isolation, both are about drowning. in context, one seems like a joke shared; the other a joke at someones expense.

for example, ricky gervais in his stand up regularly calls his audience 'c***s' and 'scum'. they laugh - it is his schtick, and theyre in on it. however, it would be very poorly received if he was overheard referring to his fans in such a way in private.

another example is calling your best friend a 'f***head' to his face while laughing. provided you know each other well, should be fine between you two. if they found out you called them that in private with 3 others, behind your friends back, they might think there was more to it.

purely in my view, the two comments by neale and eddie are not like-for-like.

Yes and I agree with all that. So doesn't that make it even more about bullying?
Not gender, sexism etc etc.
Ed stupidly said it and it's wrong.
Tony Shaw said it and he's my friend, its ok.
As you said context is everything.

 

[FuManchu]

And to the rest of my post, had Robbo been the subject of this puerile attempt at humour would you be equally outraged?

If the answer is no, then why is Caro entitled to be treated differently? Is this not hypocrisy by it's dictionary definition and entirely against what gender equality stands for?

Or, to go the other argument which is possibly more valid, is it your contention that these antics promote domestic violence? If so, please explain it to me because I cannot see how this episode would lead to even one instance of domestic violence. I am happy to be educated but it will take a lot more than the teeth gnashing and wailing going on in here.

Like I said, stupid, yes. Uncalled for, definitely......but a complete overreaction as far as I can see.

Funnily enough if you go back to the Collingwood board, I defended his right to write the drug story back in March. I copped mega abuse for that. Even thought I think he is far more hit and miss than Caro could ever be. Once again, the way to make your point is to challenge their facts and debate their opinions.

But I stand by their right to write their stories and to every so often get them wrong because if you don't have the press probing, questioning, challenging the institutions, then you get what you deserve. So if someone wanted to drown any journo for being the 'enemy' of the ol boys club, then I'd tell them to go forth and multiply too. The press should be encouraged to do what they do freely here. There are enough mechanisms to keep them relatively on the straight and narrow including the threat to tenure and legal implications.

 

[citizen-erased]

Ahh, white privilege. Where would I be without it?

This whole thing is just another excuse for SJW like our mate here to pile on a wealthy, successful white male over the latest fad - domestic violence.

Of course, by fad I mean the latest issue for SJW to use to virtue signal about. 20 years ago it they would all be tweeting about the hole in the ozone layer, but that's entirely too retro to mention these days.

McGuire can be a boofhead at times, but I find it hard to link him talking about a couple of bombs/cannonballs in a pool to him drinking a bottle of Ol' Rotgut and punching her around the head

i find your avatar and commentary sadly hilarious.

Fad. ffs.
it kills people. so does the hole in the ozone by the way, but hey, cancer. harden up i suppose........
Also, the issue hasn't gone away. It gets lumped in with the whole climate change debate, since its no longer just about that hole now

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Because she's a woman of course! It has to be that because I said so!

Sarcasm; not only the lowest form of wit but the refuge of the logic-deprived.

 

[Bostonian]

And here you betray the fact that you fundamentally do not believe in equality.

I believe boys and girls are very different to each other.

That has zero to do with equality.

You betray logic and sense.

 

[barmy44]

Yes and I agree with all that. So doesn't that make it even more about bullying?
Not gender, sexism etc etc.
Ed stupidly said it and it's wrong.
Tony Shaw said it and he's my friend, its ok.
As you said context is everything.

im not aware of tony shaws comments... but reading the transcript, references to caro as a 'black widow'... dunno, just feel like an woman challenging the AFLs blokey status quo might have something to do with the dislike. doesn't seem like a massive stretch, anyway. i could well be wrong, though.

 

[HairyO]

Hundreds of participants, some expressing outrage, some attacking them for feeling outraged. Some suggesting it was just a joke, others attacking them for trivialising the issue.

You might expect a thread to win up quickly if everybody is on the same page, but there is not 50 pages of outraged posting here. Plenty of give and take.

Im just saying that if the discussion was about Ed and Brayshaw hating Caro (and Caro hating Ed and Brayshaw) then it wouldnt be anywhere near as big an issue.

And I think that is the issue. Caro being a woman would have been far from their mind. Caro being someone they cant stand would have been front and centre.

 

[The_Ru]

FFS, how many times? Equality of opportunity is not the same as equal treatment.

When people say they support equality it is usually equality of opportunity and to immediately respond demanding equality of treatment is stupid and lazy.

 

[Bostonian]

Sarcasm; not only the lowest form of wit but the refuge of the logic-deprived.

And women are the masters of sarcasm.