EDFL Premier Division

[EDFL knowitall]

Footyman, appreciate your reply. Agree you have made a lot of valid points but I don't think clubs have had enough time to digest this and fully understand the "possible" ramifications in 3-5 years time. Yes understand clubs can be allocated more points in extreme cases, but isn't 50 the max. So it's an imbalance.
NOW I must point out Its not my intention to criticise any club, but my views are the top 4 clubs have a head start. Why?
In 5 years Abers, Keilor or Strathmore could have literally 8 to 10 players from AFL or VFL at 1 point and to compete with them another club who may have 1 or two, if any at best in their team has to recruit 7 blokes at 5 points for a total of 35 points out of a possible 50 to compete, where Abers or Strathmore for example will only be using 8 points of a possible 50.

You can't field 16 blokes out of 15 points and compete.

Im hearing a number of clubs are not happy (even some top 4 clubs) and legal advice has been sought on edfl constitution, as some clubs are demanding a vote . If they don't get one, the numbers have been sort to call an extraordinary AGM and call a spill of the edfl board with a 75% vote the threshold . This is being explored by a number of clubs..

There is nothing the EDFL board can do. They fall under AFL Victoria and they make the rules. If if you have an AGM and have spill on the board the new board can't change anything. Clubs will just have to change their recruiting methods as to a 50 points per team. They have had plenty of team to adjust. It's been out now for at least 2-3 weeks that it's 50 a team. If clubs admin are banking on 60 points then they are stupid and have a bad football department. Also clubs so start working towards a salary cap this year cause I'm 2017 it will be implemented. So if you not working on bringing down your player payments this season then you are delusional.
The reason why the Greenvale & Strathmore have been successful over the last decade winning 4 flags each is because they play there juniors. Then top up there list with good experienced players who stick around for more then 1-2 seasons.

 

[local footy fan]

Im hearing a number of clubs are not happy (even some top 4 clubs) and legal advice has been sought on edfl constitution, as some clubs are demanding a vote . If they don't get one, the numbers have been sort to call an extraordinary AGM and call a spill of the edfl board with a 75% vote the threshold . This is being explored by a number of clubs..

these edfl clubs are dreaming if they think that over throwing the board will change the points system coming in this has come from the AFL to AFLVIC to the leagues and its right across all Victorian league's as if they don't put a stop to the rising player costs the only viable league will with financially healthy clubs will be the ammos

 

[Mounzer11]

Goodness me....for starters the EDFL cannot reject the proposal from AFL Victoria. The points system is coming in, all leagues have until October 31 to notify their clubs of their points allocation for 2016 as per the guidelines.

The majority of leagues have made their decision already, but EDFL have stalled, most likely due to the reality that the points system is going to screw some clubs to the max. Yet these same clubs which in 7 days time will officially be screwed are still out their recruiting players, offering absurd amounts of money to them and banking on the EDFL having 60 points per club when, as it stands, the AFL Victoria guidelines again clearly state that the maximum points any team is allowed is 50. So what we're likely going to have is one giant fire sale where clubs who've overcommitted have to let a few go, and I reckon we will see clearances flying around left right and centre about 3 or 4 weeks into the season when that star ex-VFL recruit is stuck in the Reserves because they can't fit him into the team and he wants out.

Something had to be done about the out of control match payments at local level. The points system, and the subsequent salary declarations to be implemented in 2017 will slow things down. The EDFL is lucky that most clubs in the Premier comp can spend $400,000-$600,000 a year on their football department which has resulted in a fairly even competition. But other leagues are not so lucky, and the ramifications of the EDFL led salary inflation is being felt outside of the EDFL. There's clubs on their knees, proud clubs, that just can't afford to keep up with the escalating costs of running a footy club. And again referring to the AFL Vic numbers, 83% of clubs who responded to their survey said something needed to be done about managing the rising match payments.

Instead of the wealthiest winning the flag (as was the case this year in virtually all metro competitions), we may start seeing clubs who work hard to develop juniors, clubs who have good cultures and clubs who retain players for a period of time have success. Clubs will still be able to recruit, but just not as many players. Clubs will have to be more astute. They'll need to be more responsible. They'll need to do more homework. They'll need their recruits to stay for more than a season. None of those are bad things.

Have a look at the Macleod model in the NFL. Won the flag with a budget of $120K. They showed what a good junior programme and a real community based culture can do.
I think sometimes money makes clubs lazy, they don't really have to build anything besides engaging people with deep pockets.
St Bernards is another example of what hard work and a committee with a plan can do.

 

[Turbos mail]

these edfl clubs are dreaming if they think that over throwing the board will change the points system coming in this has come from the AFL to AFLVIC to the leagues and its right across all Victorian league's as if they don't put a stop to the rising player costs the only viable league will with financially healthy clubs will be the ammos

I'm all for reducing total player payments and introducing a salary cap (just it sure it will be followed by all) but home growns returning also get paid don't forget. I'm talking more about the purpose which is equalisation. I'm not sure a flat 50pts across all teams will even out the competition, but create a bigger divide.
In a lot of cases Successful clubs do also bring in players on lower payments as they are motivated by playing in a good side and playing finals. Some lower clubs need to entice players with the lure of extra payments and hope to get the best out of them. I'm sure we all agree on this!
So some clubs must recruit to get success to build a successful club. It's the good clubs who sustain success, mainly through hardworking people and good culture..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not often I agree with Turbo, but he is spot on with this. The points system is completely flawed and will unfairly favour the already strong teams with strong junior setups and give the ambitious clubs with no way of challenging.

 

[Deefer4]

Not often I agree with Turbo, but he is spot on with this. The points system is completely flawed and will unfairly favour the already strong teams with strong junior setups and give the ambitious clubs with no way of challenging.

Not often I agree with Turbo, but he is spot on with this. The points system is completely flawed and will unfairly favour the already strong teams with strong junior setups and give the ambitious clubs with no way of challenging.

Does not matter if you agree with Turbo or not, it is not going to happen. Turbo needs to get over it. As for the statement that clubs have not had enough time to prepare, digest, understand whatever, this has been work in progress for close to two years, with clubs being briefed and "educated" on the process. I have mentioned before, there are two clubs resisting the salary cap. The EDFL is still indulging in a futile effort to get the points cap lifted, apart from that, it is done!

 

[milkman99]

Does not matter if you agree with Turbo or not, it is not going to happen. Turbo needs to get over it. As for the statement that clubs have not had enough time to prepare, digest, understand whatever, this has been work in progress for close to two years, with clubs being briefed and "educated" on the process. I have mentioned before, there are two clubs resisting the salary cap. The EDFL is still indulging in a futile effort to get the points cap lifted, apart from that, it is done!

I agree on the points system but l would love to know how they're going to police a salary cap when 90% of players get in paid in cash

 

[EDFL knowitall]

I agree on the points system but l would love to know how they're going to police a salary cap when 90% of players get in paid in cash

Players will be forced to sign stat decs. So it will be a legal paper so that if they do lie then they can get themselves into serious trouble. This is what I'm hearing not sure if true

 

[Brissel]

Players will be forced to sign stat decs. So it will be a legal paper so that if they do lie then they can get themselves into serious trouble. This is what I'm hearing not sure if true

this is the only way it can be policed with credibility

without stat decs they may as well not have it at all

 

[Turbos mail]

Here you go guys it's gone live. Great to see some clubs make a stand and have some forward thinkers involved in there club. Well done Pascoe Vale..

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/leader/lo...el-playing-field/story-fni5htyf-1227583635787
Local Footy
EDFL clubs call for more consultation on AFL Victoria player points cap as report suggests blanket cap will do nothing to create level playing field
October 27, 2015 10:15am
Chris CavanaghMoonee Valley Leader

EDFL clubs have called on more consultation around a player points cap slated for next year.


FURTHER questions have been raised over the Essendon District Football League’s handling of a player points cap slated for next year as clubs call for more consultation on the “biggest changes to local footy in 100 years”.



Following a heated meeting between the league, club officials and AFL Victoria last Thursday over the planned equalisation measures, Pascoe Vale last night sent an email to club presidents and EDFL chairman Brett Scott demanding more discussions before the plans are set in stone.

The email, obtained by Leader, includes an independent report commissioned by Pascoe Vale on the player points system and recommendations from the man who wrote it, Kead Beauliv, of Complete Sports Management.

Beauliv analysed the lists, junior talent pools and recent success of all senior EDFL clubs and suggested a blanket player points cap — which has been proposed — will do nothing to create an equal playing field as AFL Victoria’s policy intends to achieve.

Rather, Beauliv states clubs that fielded teams using less than 50 points during trials this year will get stronger while clubs that fielded teams using more than 50 points will get weaker.

Leader understands at least three EDFL clubs fielded teams with points totals in the 60s this season.

Aberfeldie — which won the Premier Division grand final by 76 points — was under the 50-point threshold during trials.

Beauliv recommended the EDFL allocate a unique points cap to each club as many other leagues around the state have done because of their differing circumstances, with the report showing Aberfeldie had 17 junior teams this season while Keilor Park and Pascoe Vale had only one each.

Strathmore president John Elliott said there were still too many holes in the messages coming from AFL Victoria and the EDFL.

“What are the points going to be in 2017 and what are the points going to be in 2018? No one can answer these questions,” he said.

“There’s too many grey areas and I don’t believe we’re being told the full picture. Plus it’s too late. I’ve been recruiting since August and now it’s October, nearly November, and we still haven’t signed off on it.”

Footballers who have played at least 40 matches for an affiliated junior club are considered ‘home club players’ and worth one point under the statewide system regardless of what level they have gone on to play at.

Those who have played at least one AFL match in the past three years and have not played juniors for a club are worth six points while those with recent state experience in the VFL, SANFL or WAFL are worth five points and recent TAC Cup graduates are worth four points.

Beauliv’s report showed a comparison of how the system would work for two clubs with differing levels of junior participation.

Side A recruits two ex-AFL players, two ex-VFL players and two ex-AFL players who are all former juniors for the club.

Side B has recruited the same six elite level footballers to match their opposition but none have played juniors for the club due to a limited junior program being in place.

Side A is left with 44 points to spread across the 16 remaining players it needs to field a team.

Side B is left with 20 points to spread across its remaining 16 players despite having recruited the same top-end talent as Side A.

Polldaddy.com
Beauliv recommended the EDFL adopts AFL Victoria’s player points system before the deadline of October 30 but conduct further consultation before allocating individual points totals to clubs.

In its email, Pascoe Vale noted the equalisation measures represent “the biggest changes in local footy in 100 years” and require sound understanding of the implications as a result.

The release of the email and report comes a week after one senior EDFL coach told Leader the EDFL points cap situation was a “shambles”, with the league having originally told clubs back in July it was looking at a cap of 60 points for its clubs.

That figure was revised at the EDFL’s presentation night last month, where the league said it was working towards implementing a cap of 55 points before AFL Victoria unveiled its final plans earlier this month stating clubs across Victoria would have a maximum of 50 points available to them next year.


0 Comments

 

[footyman]

I have mentioned before, there are two clubs resisting the salary cap.

Pascoe Vale is one of them, which doesn't surprise at all.

If the EDFL are given a significant exemption then it really defeats the purpose of bringing it in. It's not only designed to create equality within leagues but to create a more level playing field outside of the league as well. I'd be surprised if AFL Victoria relented on the 50 point maximum.

You'd think most clubs should/would have at least 8 players with 1 point - either juniors or players who have been at their club for 3 years. Which still leaves 42 points to be shared between 14 players (average of 3 points each). The clubs upset with it are ones who want 3 or 4 blokes straight off AFL or VFL lists which would chew up 20-24 points.

 

[EDFL knowitall]

Pascoe Vale is one of them, which doesn't surprise at all.

If the EDFL are given a significant exemption then it really defeats the purpose of bringing it in. It's not only designed to create equality within leagues but to create a more level playing field outside of the league as well. I'd be surprised if AFL Victoria relented on the 50 point maximum.

You'd think most clubs should/would have at least 8 players with 1 point - either juniors or players who have been at their club for 3 years. Which still leaves 42 points to be shared between 14 players (average of 3 points each). The clubs upset with it are ones who want 3 or 4 blokes straight off AFL or VFL lists which would chew up 20-24 points.

As I said the good successful clubs have 10-12 home grown players. So it still allows 38-40 points on 10-12 players so you can still get 3-4 VFL players or afl players. It will mean more clubs will spend money on junior programs and hopefully it will improve the competition in a whole and we will see more and more players A) get drafted B) play seniors at there junior club and not have to go elsewhere to continue playing

 

[footyman]

Confirmed 50 points.

Fair to say a few players phones won't be copping as many calls anymore! The full house sign will be up at a few clubs.

 

[Turbos mail]

Pascoe Vale is one of them, which doesn't surprise at all.

If the EDFL are given a significant exemption then it really defeats the purpose of bringing it in. It's not only designed to create equality within leagues but to create a more level playing field outside of the league as well. I'd be surprised if AFL Victoria relented on the 50 point maximum.

You'd think most clubs should/would have at least 8 players with 1 point - either juniors or players who have been at their club for 3 years. Which still leaves 42 points to be shared between 14 players (average of 3 points each). The clubs upset with it are ones who want 3 or 4 blokes straight off AFL or VFL lists which would chew up 20-24 points.

As I said the good successful clubs have 10-12 home grown players. So it still allows 38-40 points on 10-12 players so you can still get 3-4 VFL players or afl players. It will mean more clubs will spend money on junior programs and hopefully it will improve the competition in a whole and we will see more and more players A) get drafted B) play seniors at there junior club and not have to go elsewhere to continue playing

Footy man, don't think it's just 2 clubs unhappy as I'm sure some div1&2 clubs will struggle to stay competitive with the points. It's just that Pacco have some people who are willing to look beyond 2016 as they intend to be competitive clubs for years to come. A lot of clubs will struggle for 8-12 home growns in there best starting 22. I'm sure it's the aim of most clubs to have this, but depends on a few things:
-what division your club is playing!
-Is the homegrown loyal to the club or wants to pay for money. I dont begrudge anyone as sometimes it can be they don't have a job, or a good paying one, so want the extra 200 to change clubs.
-relocation so it's a travel thing
-they change clubs to play a specific position maybe!

Knowitall, I think the player ratings were not discussed by anyone outside afl.
-even if a player wants to play higher footy (premier) they attract the same points as someone moving over from say NFL div1. 3 points Why is this?
-a standard contract is usually for 2 years however if you move clubs within 3 years you attract an extra point. Stupid!
-you win a B&F or club goal kicking and it attracts another point. I don't like this either so a good local footballer is now worth 4 points and maybe 5. Stupid!

I'm not impressed with the player ratings as it needs some fine tuning. Plus some clubs with lower junior numbers require some assistance to stay competitive.
I also think the EDFL club areas are smaller than some other leagues but I haven't fully researched it. Some areas like Craigieburn, Greenvale are expanding with housing development, and the NFL clubs seem to have large areas compared to say a Pacco, Avondale, Marby Park, Moonee Valley, Keilor Park etc.

I suppose we can debate this forever and I do respect your views.

 

[My North]

the points system is at 50 points according to the leader newspaper now.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/...el-playing-field/story-fni5htyf-1227583635787

Confirmed 50 points.

Fair to say a few players phones won't be copping as many calls anymore! The full house sign will be up at a few clubs.

was always going to be 50 points every other league in Melbourne is at 50 points.
Interesting year for some clubs in 2016.

 

[The Good Oil]

As I said the good successful clubs have 10-12 home grown players. So it still allows 38-40 points on 10-12 players so you can still get 3-4 VFL players or afl players. It will mean more clubs will spend money on junior programs and hopefully it will improve the competition in a whole and we will see more and more players A) get drafted B) play seniors at there junior club and not have to go elsewhere to continue playing

Thats all well and good it dosen't help clubs with junior teams in lower grades losing players to Div 1 teams . How do you stop this occurring ? Its got nothing to do with better junior programs usually more about moronic parents thinking little Johnny stands a better chance of getting drafted if he comes from Keilor or Abers. Actually 2 ex PV juniors played in Aberfeldies premiership this year.So are they 1 point to PV or 1 point to both. So will we now see a trend of kids being pushed to transfer before they have played there 40 games?

 

[bigj639]

Goodness me....for starters the EDFL cannot reject the proposal from AFL Victoria. The points system is coming in, all leagues have until October 31 to notify their clubs of their points allocation for 2016 as per the guidelines.

The majority of leagues have made their decision already, but EDFL have stalled, most likely due to the reality that the points system is going to screw some clubs to the max. Yet these same clubs which in 7 days time will officially be screwed are still out their recruiting players, offering absurd amounts of money to them and banking on the EDFL having 60 points per club when, as it stands, the AFL Victoria guidelines again clearly state that the maximum points any team is allowed is 50. So what we're likely going to have is one giant fire sale where clubs who've overcommitted have to let a few go, and I reckon we will see clearances flying around left right and centre about 3 or 4 weeks into the season when that star ex-VFL recruit is stuck in the Reserves because they can't fit him into the team and he wants out.

Something had to be done about the out of control match payments at local level. The points system, and the subsequent salary declarations to be implemented in 2017 will slow things down. The EDFL is lucky that most clubs in the Premier comp can spend $400,000-$600,000 a year on their football department which has resulted in a fairly even competition. But other leagues are not so lucky, and the ramifications of the EDFL led salary inflation is being felt outside of the EDFL. There's clubs on their knees, proud clubs, that just can't afford to keep up with the escalating costs of running a footy club. And again referring to the AFL Vic numbers, 83% of clubs who responded to their survey said something needed to be done about managing the rising match payments.

Instead of the wealthiest winning the flag (as was the case this year in virtually all metro competitions), we may start seeing clubs who work hard to develop juniors, clubs who have good cultures and clubs who retain players for a period of time have success. Clubs will still be able to recruit, but just not as many players. Clubs will have to be more astute. They'll need to be more responsible. They'll need to do more homework. They'll need their recruits to stay for more than a season. None of those are bad things.

I disagree that the EDFL must accept the proposal. They must accept it if they still want to operate under the banner of AFL Victoria. They might start a breakaway competition with their own rules if that is the wish of the clubs. I have written about this many times on this forum it is ridiculous to bring in points systems and salary caps as they wont change anything. The only way to drive change is to incentivize clubs to be better, not punish good clubs for being good. What will happen is exactly what has happened in sports competitions around the world, the best clubs will break away and form their own competition severely depleting all other existing leagues of talent and prestige. Also these rules are all illegal business activity, it is clearly restraint of trade as successfully argued in the 80s by the Rugby league players association. As local players are not bound by the toothless and gutless AFLPA they could take the league to court and challenge this and would most surely win. Then we are back to where we started with the best clubs being the best and everybody else looking for new and creative ways to compete if they cannot raise the money.

 

[FootyRUs]

Confirmed 50 points.

Fair to say a few players phones won't be copping as many calls anymore! The full house sign will be up at a few clubs.

If the points system is anything like when they introduced it into VTCA I suggest Thursday nights selection will have a "juggling act" component and there will games where some handy footballers will be kicking off the dew due to the points squeezing.

 

[BlueJet]

So in short, clubs like Marby that became proactive with their juniors will be fine, while the clubs that sat on their hands will struggle?
Meh..

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

 

[Turbos mail]

So in short, clubs like Marby that became proactive with their juniors will be fine, while the clubs that sat on their hands will struggle?
Meh..

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

BJ, but they built there juniors off the back of there senior premierships, when support at the games

 

[Turbos mail]

So in short, clubs like Marby that became proactive with their juniors will be fine, while the clubs that sat on their hands will struggle?
Meh..

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk

Sorry didn't finish-
Marby built the juniors on the back of an increase in supporters following there premiership victories. I'm sure there side would have been over 50 points during this time as had a lot of recruits plus Holland. I think that was a good thing, don't you?
Before that a lot of kids in that area were going to Abers, hence there large numbers now playing 16s,18s & even 3rds.

 

[footyman]

not punish good clubs for being good.

Nah, the points system is punishing bad clubs. Clubs who don't put time into juniors. Clubs who recruit duds who disappear the following year. Clubs who irresponsibly go out and drive the market up.

Good clubs will develop their kids, good clubs will get their 4 or 5 recruits every year and retain them.

That Premier club which has contacted every man imaginable for 2016 and offered blokes they've never seen play absurd amounts of money to secure early signatures will be in a panic because now they've got all these signatures but not enough points to fit them all into their side. They'll have a strong reserves side though - if they all stick around long enough.

 

[Oddballoddball]

Sorry didn't finish-
Marby built the juniors on the back of an increase in supporters following there premiership victories. I'm sure there side would have been over 50 points during this time as had a lot of recruits plus Holland. I think that was a good thing, don't you?
Before that a lot of kids in that area were going to Abers, hence there large numbers now playing 16s,18s & even 3rds.

And now clubs like MARBY Abers greenvale Keilor and strathmore will be fine. Clubs like Avondale could be in the shit?? Maybe airport west. That's if they want to remain competitive? Don't really know the ins and outs of clubs at junior levels just curious to know who it will affect and in what ways.

 

[BlueJet]

BJ, but they built there juniors off the back of there senior premierships, when support at the games

To a point yes but they also invested time and effort into making it an attractive place for younger people to have a kick (and hopefully drag a few mates along).
Under the new system they'll benefit for the work that they put in a number of years ago.
I'm only listing them as a point of difference to an Abers or a Keilor who are the leaders in junior development in this comp and to show that if people are prepared to get their hands dirty it can all be turned around quite quickly.

 

[Turbos mail]

To a point yes but they also invested time and effort into making it an attractive place for younger people to have a kick (and hopefully drag a few mates along).
Under the new system they'll benefit for the work that they put in a number of years ago.
I'm only listing them as a point of difference to an Abers or a Keilor who are the leaders in junior development in this comp and to show that if people are prepared to get their hands dirty it can all be turned around quite quickly.

BJ, let's be open & honest here. Successful senior clubs often have lots of juniors and usually a junior team in div1. It's usually a flow on affect. Seniors are competitive which attract local supporters and sponsors in the doors and these people will bring there kids along most times. Also some of these clubs have been "raping" other lower clubs of junior talent with the promise of playing div1 at a good club. Is this fair?? No it's not, it's kind of entrapment isn't it.
Let's use an example: a kid go to his local club close to home and plays with school mates during under 10s in div4. Then his club is only winning a few games each year however the kid has some talent. At age 12-13 his lured to play div1 at another club close by. Bingo sold..
I understand why but how do these "lower" clubs move forward?? There seniors more often than not will need to recruit.

I'm not sure why clubs are not allowed a marquee player outside the points cap. What if you recruit a player coach to raise your clubs profile. Why are they being punished as they want to coach and maybe give something back to local footy and teach the youngsters. BANG 6 points.
Fu@@@@@ stupid but I'm guessing the AFL junket was about to start so so let's wrap it up they would say...

Personally my investment at local level is small but I'm a keen follower of the EDFL and have been for years, but I really feel for the people who work hard to build clubs and sometimes try and become successful only to be hampered by some half brained idea.
Why do AFL clubs get draft concessions to try and level the playing field but the PPS is every club is equal with a max of 50pts.

Now div1 and div2 also have 50 points. Hahahaha surely this a joke or just another kick in the guts for premier div.