Recruiting EFC Trade/Draft Talk II with F/A rules in OP - Billings for a fourth rounder the latest rumour

[Ambrosia]

I'm not saying that Francis can't develop into a midfielder, just that it's unlikely to happen in the first few years or so of his career and that he's more effective down back anyway.

Agreed especially when he'd be a good chance of starting round 1 as a defender.

 

[Keystone agony]

Weidemann is not a good kick for goal - that's one of his knocks

Reported very differently. Ive seen differing opinions on this.

 

[MarkG]

Citation needed.

Search google on "genetics physical ability". Lots of articles. The Chinese used this thinking to build their Olympic teams. Kids are placed into Olympic preparation from a very young age based on genetics not based on physical attributes.

There are so many boxes to tick when selecting a draftee.

You can look like a million dollars and Mark everything that comes your way like Jack Watts but not have the attitude.

Injury prone (so many of the first round draft picks have injuries)... Is this normal? Did any of the current AFL stars have injuries when they were drafted.

Nobody would buy an injured horse at the horse sales. But we are looking at Curnow, Weideman and others that have injuries from playing kids football. What chance do they have of holding up at AFL level with so much more intensity?

Some injuries are repaired and will never come back such as Milera's heart blockage. He should play even better going forward than what he has previously. Others must only get worse.... Ones that are to do with calfs, hamstrings, joints etc.

 

[Kakkle]

Search google on "genetics physical ability". Lots of articles. The Chinese used this thinking to build their Olympic teams. Kids are placed into Olympic preparation from a very young age based on genetics not based on physical attributes.

Are you saying we should put a strong emphasis on genetics when it comes to recruiting?

 

[MarkG]

Are you saying we should put a strong emphasis on genetics when it comes to recruiting?

No... It is one minor box to tick.

I suppose the James Hird academy will tell the tale. If James didn't believe in genetics, why would he bother?

Not sure if you are into horses. A mare can have a champion foal first up. You go to the sales with a wise old trainer like a Bart Cummings and look at a full brother. Bart will say don't touch it... Looks nothing like the first foal. Mare has 3 or 4 other foals... Same deal. They may go ok but not stars. Then eventually one comes along out of the mare, and Bart says buy this one. And he is invariably correct. Turns out to be a good horse.

From the genetic perspective, is Jake Long similar to Michael Long (the star)? Maybe, maybe not. Is Daniel Rioli genetically like Cyril... Most people would say yes. Very similar.

 

[harry_caul]

Search google on "genetics physical ability". Lots of articles. The Chinese used this thinking to build their Olympic teams. Kids are placed into Olympic preparation from a very young age based on genetics not based on physical attributes.

There are so many boxes to tick when selecting a draftee.

You can look like a million dollars and Mark everything that comes your way like Jack Watts but not have the attitude.

Injury prone (so many of the first round draft picks have injuries)... Is this normal? Did any of the current AFL stars have injuries when they were drafted.

Nobody would buy an injured horse at the horse sales. But we are looking at Curnow, Weideman and others that have injuries from playing kids football. What chance do they have of holding up at AFL level with so much more intensity?

Plenty of AFL stars were injured prior to getting drafted. Selwood was a notable case. He missed the season but had got himself fit as a fiddle at the time he was drafted. Hit the ground running in AFL. Tyrone Vickery had an acl injury iirc. He didn't hit the ground running but he has struggled with Richmond's game plan as much as anything else. He's a star on his day. I think injuries will have no long teem effect on players that are determined to succeed. Nothing will stop them from succeeding even if it means getting badly injured again. Bulldogs great Peter Box was a perfect example.He mangled his leg in a car accident and was told he'd never play again but came back to romp in the Brownlow. Other players can get serious injuries and begin to wonder if it's all worth it, I guess. I'm not prepared to weigh in on a genetics debate though, BTW.

 

[MarkG]

Plenty of AFL stars were injured prior to getting drafted. Selwood was a notable case. He missed the season but had got himself fit as a fiddle at the time he was drafted. Hit the ground running in AFL. Tyrone Vickery had an acl injury iirc. He didn't hit the ground running but he has struggled with Richmond's game plan as much as anything else. He's a star on his day. I think injuries will have no long teem effect on players that are determined to succeed. Nothing will stop them from succeeding even if it means getting badly injured again. Bulldogs great Peter Box was a perfect example.He mangled his leg in a car accident and was told he'd never play again but came back to romp in the Brownlow. Other players can get serious injuries and begin to wonder if it's all worth it, I guess. I'm not prepared to weigh in on a genetics debate though, BTW.

True re some kids that are injured do well but many don't get on the track as well. In Essendons case, the Gumbelton experience with a wasted draft pick 2 still leaves a sour taste. So the pain would be even greater if we repeated the same after having such high draft picks.

 

[harry_caul]

True re some kids that are injured do well but many don't get on the track as well. In Essendons case, the Gumbelton experience with a wasted draft pick 2 still leaves a sour taste. So the pain would be even greater if we repeated the same after having such high draft picks.

Yeah, but things happen. I bet Geelong though they got a bargain when they drafted Menzel at pick 17, and rightly so. There are innumerable examples of unforeseeable things happening in AFL. That's one reason why they should get paid so much: it's a dangerous game to play. Bruce Lee said that a fighter is there to get hurt, and I guess it's the same for a determined footballer.

 

[Old Campaigner]

I'm not saying that Francis can't develop into a midfielder, just that it's unlikely to happen in the first few years or so of his career and that he's more effective down back anyway.

So why have this argument? Very few kids drafted as midfielders can come in and play through the midfield straight away, sounds like Francis would be no different.

Not interested in the blood line or junior numbers, rather his transferable skills and foresee his ability to be effective in a forward role.

Also I liked his influence in the grand final game and the champs game against Tas was also impressive.

Certainly not saying he's a gurantee, but he fills a need and unless a slider emerges I would be more than happy to take a risk on him than select a vanilla midfielder with better numbers.

Then why the fuss over him in particular? There's probably plenty of other young kids running around with a similar skillset. You're probably the only one that isn't interested in junior numbers. He'll most likely be around at 57 (because he isn't very good), so why waste a second round pick on him? Small forwards are overrated anyway, better to spend your high picks on areas where you really need quality and leave the scrounging around for runts with a bit of zip to the back end of the draft.

 

[MightyDons4]

The style of player he is why would you want him to be an inside mid? It wouldn't make sense for mine. To me if he get's thrown into the middle he will play the quarterback role with his good decision making/skills.

Because with his size and aggression you want him to be able to win the ball, not just be an outside seagull. That's why playing a 3rd tall or loose role is perfect for him as he can generate his ball through intercept marking.

So why have this argument? Very few kids drafted as midfielders can come in and play through the midfield straight away, sounds like Francis would be no different.

Key difference is that junior players who go through the midfield usually lack the size to compete at AFL level. Francis is the opposite, as he hasn't played his junior career (or at least the last couple of years) through the midfield he doesn't understand where to position himself, how to read the tap etc. which are all essential if you're going to make it as a midfielder. We also sacrifice his best attribute playing him through the midfield.

 

[rumply]

Just read Steinberg's been delisted - Vale Steiny, close but yet so far, must be incredibly frustrating for the bloke.

 

[ant555]

Lacks midfield ability big time. He has no idea where to position himself around stoppages, where to run and how to read the tap.

Agree with this, the only thing he currently does well in the midfield is block.

 

[harry_caul]

Agree with this, the only thing he currently does well in the midfield is block.

Do you think he could be a tall, running winger? Personally I have no idea what position he'll eventually settle into, could end up anywhere.

 

[ant555]

Comparing Jack watts to Aaron Francis is like comparing Indecent Obsession to ACDC or Jordan McMahon to Mark Ricciuto.

Watts was a soft forward who took all his marks on the lead in space with very little physical contact. A soft Brighton grammar boy. Francis is a competitive beast who holds no fear for his safety, back into packs, flys for marks and takes the hits. Francis is AFL ready immediately.

Ok he was not a super hard at it player in under 18 but he was not what you are making him out to be as an under 18.
I saw several games where he was moved into the midfield and won clearances including a game at Sandy in the wet where he kicked 5 first half goals and then went into the middle and had 18 possessions in the second half.
I think you are translating a lot of his AFL stuff as what he was doing at under 18 level.

You are right about him being a private school mummies boy in the end but that was certainly not clear in the under 18's.

Watts and Francis are certainly different types though, Francis is much more physical and from an entirely different back ground.

 

[ant555]

Do you think he could be a tall, running winger? Personally I have no idea what position he'll eventually settle into, could end up anywhere.

Think Goddard, BJ is not a great midfielder either. Will play half back, half forward, possibly wing.
Remember Heppell coming in and playing half back ? well Francis will be a quicker better version of that, of course Heppell was and is a much better mid fielder.

 

[ant555]

True re some kids that are injured do well but many don't get on the track as well. In Essendons case, the Gumbelton experience with a wasted draft pick 2 still leaves a sour taste. So the pain would be even greater if we repeated the same after having such high draft picks.

Yes but the thing with Gumby was he had no injury issues before he was drafted. It was just pure bad luck.

The one they took the risk with was Kav who had a history of hammy issues. He was pick 19 though so it is not like they wasted a top 10 pick.

 

[efcboy]

Yes but the thing with Gumby was he had no injury issues before he was drafted. It was just pure bad luck.

The one they took the risk with was Kav who had a history of hammy issues. He was pick 19 though so it is not like they wasted a top 10 pick.

Gumby had a knee issue when drafted but the back/hamstring issues surfaced later. I don't have an issue with the club recruiting Gumby - he was clearly the best player available on exposed form, ability, size, athleticism and only had a minor knee issue which was resolved. It was pure bad luck for club and player.

 

[efcboy]

Ok he was not a super hard at it player in under 18 but he was not what you are making him out to be as an under 18.
I saw several games where he was moved into the midfield and won clearances including a game at Sandy in the wet where he kicked 5 first half goals and then went into the middle and had 18 possessions in the second half.
I think you are translating a lot of his AFL stuff as what he was doing at under 18 level.

You are right about him being a private school mummies boy in the end but that was certainly not clear in the under 18's.

Watts and Francis are certainly different types though, Francis is much more physical and from an entirely different back ground.

I had several conversations about watts leading into the draft - particularly with a mate who was coaching the Falcons. We both agreed that he was soft and was one of those guys who did ok at full forward as he was taller than his opponents but we had concerns about him having or developing the strength at afl level as he was a skinny kid. Schache this year you can see the size and development but not watts at time. We thought Melbourne were crazy overlooking Nic Nat as he looked like being capable of anything - I actually thought Nic Nat would be better than he has been as his marking hasn't developed for mine. But his tap work is awesome.

Francis is probably one of the safest picks in the draft - he's a well built kid, athletic enough, great footy smarts and great attitude. Whilst it was tragic what happened with his brother this is a driving force for him (similar to chapman who also lost a brother).

 

[fishardansin]

I'm not saying that Francis can't develop into a midfielder, just that it's unlikely to happen in the first few years or so of his career and that he's more effective down back anyway.

Well, I've wanted Weiderman with our other top pick. This makes me think that a Francis Curnow double would be perfect. Both can probably play next year and one can develop up forward while the other is down back. However, they can possibly transition into the midfield as we need to replace Watson and Goddard in the next few years.

What makes you say that mate?

 

[Kingofthehill]

I'm hoping Francis developes into Luke Hodge - slightly more physical, aggressive version of Goddard. Play's as the marshal distrobutor down back. Floats through the middle and forward as a match winner when needed.

 

[MarkG]

I'm hoping Francis developes into Luke Hodge - slightly more physical, aggressive version of Goddard. Play's as the marshal distrobutor down back. Floats through the middle and forward as a match winner when needed.

You mean Laverde. We already have one of them

 

[harry_caul]

You mean Laverde. We already have one of them

I wouldn't mind 2 or 3 of them.

 

[60sbomber]

One of the journos - might have been Tom Browne - explicitly named Carlisle as the guy who didn't bother to notify us about his whereabouts when the whole drug video was leaked.

Happy to see the back of Jake after all these recent developments. Hopefully Francis at pick 4 or 5, Essendon supporter who could be a 10 year gun for our club, and will hopefully show more maturity and loyalty than Carlisle has.

Given Carlisle was under contract to us at the time, could we fine him for failing to notify his whereabouts?
Maybe a $400k fine or so??
Joking of course, but it is a pleasant thought.
Speaking of money, did the AFL tribunal award costs against ASADA when it exonerated the players? (Wrong thread i know).

 

[MightyDons4]

Well, I've wanted Weiderman with our other top pick. This makes me think that a Francis Curnow double would be perfect. Both can probably play next year and one can develop up forward while the other is down back. However, they can possibly transition into the midfield as we need to replace Watson and Goddard in the next few years.

I think we're preferring Weideman as he provides another aerial presence with Daniher, which is more beneficial to Joe as it means he won't be getting double or triple teamed. Curnow's style can create more space for Daniher to lead into, but our smaller blokes should be doing that anyway.

Like with Francis, I don't believe Curnow will be able to become a full time midfielder. They both lack the nous required around stoppages.

 

[Cristiano Ronaldo]

I thought Curnow was looking good in the middle before injury and it was Francis who looked a little lost? Anyway, happy to pick up both.