England tour of South Africa (4 Tests, 3 ODIs, 3 T20s)

[revo333]

The Aussie batsman should watch how De Kock plays short pitched bowling.

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Some very ordinary cricketers running around in this series.

England should be very disappointed with their shot selection.

De Kock and Faf are about the only SA batsman that don't look like deer in the headlights.

If the pitches are the same for the rest of the series I would expect England to roll through them cheaply atleast once but if SA keep winning it will be good to watch.

World cricket needs South Africa to keep being competitive, I hope they have a few promising batsman waiting for a chance.

South Africa will stay very competitive. A number of structural reforms have taken place recently which will better integrate their best junior talent into the right schools. There will be plenty more players to come through the system over the next three years that will prove to be very good players.

 

[Ishikawa]

Some very ordinary cricketers running around in this series.

England should be very disappointed with their shot selection.

De Kock and Faf are about the only SA batsman that don't look like deer in the headlights.

If the pitches are the same for the rest of the series I would expect England to roll through them cheaply atleast once but if SA keep winning it will be good to watch.

World cricket needs South Africa to keep being competitive, I hope they have a few promising batsman waiting for a chance.

Did you watch van der Dussen? He's a guy who looks right in the mould of a Hussey or du Plessis being made to wait until his early 30's for test cricket after coming through the short form sides. Hamza looks to have an impressive game too - based on that first innings and his performances in the wreckage of the Indian tour I think he certainly has what it takes. Makram has had an awful year, but going by what he has done before in his short career which has been hugely impressive would be loathe to write him off yet.

Some good news coming out with the changes at CSA of late causing Pretorius to rethink his future with the national side:

Dwaine Pretorius commits future to South Africa amid Kolpak temptation

Allrounder persuaded to turn down Nottinghamshire deal as opportunity looms with Philander's retirement

www.espncricinfo.com

Apparently with Brexit, Kolpak won't be a thing anymore although it's likely the ECB will adjust by having two overseas players allowed on a county roster. While won't stop guys leaving for contractual certainty completely, it does make reverting such a decision less complicated.

 

[PhatBoy]

Some very ordinary cricketers running around in this series.

England should be very disappointed with their shot selection.

De Kock and Faf are about the only SA batsman that don't look like deer in the headlights.

If the pitches are the same for the rest of the series I would expect England to roll through them cheaply atleast once but if SA keep winning it will be good to watch.

World cricket needs South Africa to keep being competitive, I hope they have a few promising batsman waiting for a chance.

you mean aside from the SA batsman on debut who made a half century with his side 4-70

 

[revo333]

Did you watch van der Dussen? He's a guy who looks right in the mould of a Hussey or du Plessis being made to wait until his early 30's for test cricket after coming through the short form sides. Hamza looks to have an impressive game too - based on that first innings and his performances in the wreckage of the Indian tour I think he certainly has what it takes. Makram has had an awful year, but going by what he has done before in his short career which has been hugely impressive would be loathe to write him off yet.

Yes, I did. Rode his luck and played some nice cover drives.

 

[frankrizzo]

Still think at some point sa will realize it's actually easier to beat england with flatter decks than on these ones as they don't have the bowling attack to take twenty on those tracks.

Producing a flatter deck also forces england to drop one of the four quicks for leach and leach vs maharaj is a clear advantage for sa, right now it might actually be jimmy who would miss out for england.

P.S. I should add this isn't what I want to watch just that these decks are really England's best shot at winning.

 

[PhatBoy]

Still think at some point sa will realize it's actually easier to beat england with flatter decks than on these ones as they don't have the bowling attack to take twenty on those tracks.

Producing a flatter deck also forces england to drop one of the four quicks for leach and leach vs maharaj is a clear advantage for sa, right now it might actually be jimmy who would miss out for england.

P.S. I should add this isn't what I want to watch just that these decks are really England's best shot at winning.

fair points and with SA doubtless keen to begin rebuilding some more in placid pitches would aid the inexperienced batsmen in acclimatising to test cricket

 

[Seedsfan]

South Africa need to get rid of the quota system and just play their best team.

 

[Wedge McManus]

Jofra took a 5fer why is he suddenly sh.it house?

 

[010203]

Pieter Malan is expected to replace Aiden Markram. It'll be tinged with controversy if he is picked. Not for his ability it has to be said but due to the colour of his skin. That feels wrong but that's the lay of the land in South Africa.

My udnerstanding is that the quota requirements are required to be fulfilled over the course of the calendar year. The Springboks won the Rugby World Cup with 12 of their 31 man squad of colour. When it comes to cricket, apparently 6 of sqaud of 12 need to be of colour with two black Africans.

 

[Barlos Crathwaite]

Pieter Malan is expected to replace Aiden Markram. It'll be tinged with controversy if he is picked. Not for his ability it has to be said but due to the colour of his skin. That feels wrong but that's the lay of the land in South Africa.

My udnerstanding is that the quota requirements are required to be fulfilled over the course of the calendar year. The Springboks won the Rugby World Cup with 12 of their 31 man squad of colour. When it comes to cricket, apparently 6 of sqaud of 12 need to be of colour with two black Africans.

Jesus that's asking for trouble. Got to give disadvantaged people a chance but 50% of the playing XI need to be coloured or black when it's a sport dominated by white participation seems fraught. Why can't they enforce quotas at first class level and pick the best test side on merit?

 

[Seedsfan]

Jesus that's asking for trouble. Got to give disadvantaged people a chance but 50% of the playing XI need to be coloured or black when it's a sport dominated by white participation seems fraught. Why can't they enforce quotas at first class level and pick the best test side on merit?

I have been saying that to my mates. They need something like the NGA academies at junior level to give kids of colour a chance who may not otherwise be good enough to be exposed to pathways programs.

 

[Wedge McManus]

I have been saying that to my mates. They need something like the NGA academies at junior level to give kids of colour a chance who may not otherwise be good enough to be exposed to pathways programs.

Yea that seems much more appropriate to me. Let blokes develop at high standard club cricket and first class level and, from that playing pool of first class teams, pick your best XI regardless of colour. If it's ten black guys it's ten black guys etc etc.

I read once that when Charl Langeveldt got picked in the SA test team in front of Andre Nel on the basis of his skin colour being darker than Nel's. Langeveldt became almost suicidal with anxiety and was ashamed of the decision as he wanted to make the team on merit. No one wants to be a token gesture

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

South Africa need to get rid of the quota system and just play their best team.

Ignorant post.

The quota system in its current form is doing incredibly good things for South African Cricket and sport in general. CSA and the RSA as a whole have made plenty of mistakes, but they're doing a fantastic job of making sport more appealing and accessible for those who are not from privileged backgrounds.

Graeme Smith is exactly the right man to navigate this sensitive issue.

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Had the feeling this could be a very interesting series between what are probably the 4th and 5th best sides in Test Cricket, if the 1st test is anything to go by then it will be.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Graeme Smith is exactly the right man to navigate this sensitive issue.

Yes, the Saffies appear to have some very good men running the show at present. I'd expect a rapid re-surgence. This Test was another classic example of the away team lacking confidence to bat first and paying the price.

 

[Gethelred]

sorry mate but being a rapid bowler who likes to get angry doesn’t mean you have to be Ricky Ponting when you cop it back.
or was Courtney Walsh a wannabe enforcer?

of course he hasn’t got the runs on the board yet but considering how the likes of Ishant Sharma and Kemar Roach were feted when they bowled 3 overs of heat each at the WACA and took a decade each to become world class, while this bloke already has 30 test wickets under his belt after 7 games - which includes two barren matches in NZ - I’d say a bit of perspective wouldn’t go astray

Can I call him a muppet, then?

Whatever the plan was for Archer going in - if he was to be the 'bang it in' bowler - it surely should've been abandoned upon seeing how the pitch played to decent length bowling. He's got the height and the pace - coupled with the predilection towards swing via playing and practicing with the Duke ball - to be truly, truly great, but he overdoes the short stuff.

De Kock gets just off a ton in the first dig, walks out to bat with SA under a bit of trouble. What does Archer do? Proceeds to try and bounce the bloke, well aware of how small the boundaries are. De Kock hits him for six over backward square. What does Archer do? He does it again, and gets the same treatment. De Kock moves from 0 from 3 to 30 off 11. He did that.

At what point do you recognise that bowling short does have its time and place, but doing so to the exclusion of all other strategies - especially when the bowler himself could be thoroughly effective with them - and when the conditions don't suit it - short boundaries, and a temperamental pitch - is stupid. Either we blame Archer for hubris and for getting carried away, or we blame the tacticians at the head of England for putting this rubbish in his head. Do we really want test match 5 fors from a quick to come at a run rate a smidge under 6 an over?

 

[frankrizzo]

Had the feeling this could be a very interesting series between what are probably the 4th and 5th best sides in Test Cricket, if the 1st test is anything to go by then it will be.

Two flawed sides on bowling decks does tend to create some great games as the last ashes showed.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Can I call him a muppet, then?

Whatever the plan was for Archer going in - if he was to be the 'bang it in' bowler - it surely should've been abandoned upon seeing how the pitch played to decent length bowling. He's got the height and the pace - coupled with the predilection towards swing via playing and practicing with the Duke ball - to be truly, truly great, but he overdoes the short stuff.

De Kock gets just off a ton in the first dig, walks out to bat with SA under a bit of trouble. What does Archer do? Proceeds to try and bounce the bloke, well aware of how small the boundaries are. De Kock hits him for six over backward square. What does Archer do? He does it again, and gets the same treatment. De Kock moves from 0 from 3 to 30 off 11. He did that.

At what point do you recognise that bowling short does have its time and place, but doing so to the exclusion of all other strategies - especially when the bowler himself could be thoroughly effective with them - and when the conditions don't suit it - short boundaries, and a temperamental pitch - is stupid. Either we blame Archer for hubris and for getting carried away, or we blame the tacticians at the head of England for putting this rubbish in his head. Do we really want test match 5 fors from a quick to come at a run rate a smidge under 6 an over?

I can't disagree with what you say, but I often wonder how much blame should be accredited to the captain rather than the bowler. Hark your mind back to when Brett Lee first came into the Australian team. He shared the attack with McGrath, Gillespie and Warne. I know for a fact that his instructions under Steve Waugh's captaincy was to bowl as quickly as possible, damn the torpedoes. Many people ripped into Lee for all the short intimidatory bowling, but it was exactly as Waugh wanted it. Best way to keep your place in the team is to do what the captain asks

 

[Gethelred]

I can't disagree with what you say, but I often wonder how much blame should be accredited to the captain rather than the bowler. Hark your mind back to when Brett Lee first came into the Australian team. He shared the attack with McGrath, Gillespie and Warne. I know for a fact that his instructions under Steve Waugh's captaincy was to bowl as quickly as possible, damn the torpedoes. Many people ripped into Lee for all the short intimidatory bowling, but it was exactly as Waugh wanted it. Best way to keep your place in the team is to do what the captain asks

Don't get me wrong, this has Joe Root's (and Stuart Broad's) fingerprints all over it. He's a bit of a juvenile as a captain, and he's never forgotten Johnson's barrage that turned him from one of the best young bats going round into a premature start at the tail.

Just, this paints Archer in one of two ways; stupid, in that he is unable to see how their plans are wreaking his figures, or weak in that he can't approach them with his concerns. 'You rushed me into the lineup, so you obviously rate my bowling, and I've gone pretty well. I don't mind bowling short occasionally, as a surprise or when a bat has a weakness we've identified to it, but bowling short on a difficult track but postage stamp sized boundaries to an offensive player who made 95 in the first dig is silly. Might we consider adopting an alternate course of action after seeing how the pitch plays?'

In any case, it means that they're going to go far better over here on the next tour than they have. Any pink ball test would have Woakes/Anderson (if he's still rolling around) or Wood and Archer, Broad and Leach supplementing both attacks. If they can get a few runs, it'll be pretty interesting.

 

[frankrizzo]

Archer has an elbow injury and burns injured himself playing soccer and is likely to miss the test it is starting to seem like a cursed tour for england.

 

[Fudge Nuggets]

Good, F England.

 

[Zevon]

Archer has an elbow injury and burns injured himself playing soccer and is likely to miss the test it is starting to seem like a cursed tour for england.

Yeah looks like both are highly doubtful to play. It’ll be interesting to see how the side handles it. It’s one of those tours that either galvanises a side and instils an us-against-everyone siege mentality, or else eats away at their psyche and sees the wheels completely fall off. I know which way I’m leaning but either way it’s going to make for fascinating viewing.

 

[Seedsfan]

Ignorant post.

The quota system in its current form is doing incredibly good things for South African Cricket and sport in general. CSA and the RSA as a whole have made plenty of mistakes, but they're doing a fantastic job of making sport more appealing and accessible for those who are not from privileged backgrounds.

Graeme Smith is exactly the right man to navigate this sensitive issue.

You play your best team no matter what. Winning gets people following sport and how many world cups or major international tournaments have you won with the quota system in place? Nothing wrong with having quotas at pathways level and trying to get as many people playing the game from any background

 

[Seedsfan]

Yea that seems much more appropriate to me. Let blokes develop at high standard club cricket and first class level and, from that playing pool of first class teams, pick your best XI regardless of colour. If it's ten black guys it's ten black guys etc etc.

I read once that when Charl Langeveldt got picked in the SA test team in front of Andre Nel on the basis of his skin colour being darker than Nel's. Langeveldt became almost suicidal with anxiety and was ashamed of the decision as he wanted to make the team on merit. No one wants to be a token gesture

Exactly right