Club Focus Essendon 2020 - Caldwell, Hund, Wright, Cox, Perkins, Reid, Eyre, Brand

AFL Club Focus

What is the biggest priority at Essendon?

  • Key forwards

    Votes: 30 29.7%
  • Key defenders

    Votes: 7 6.9%
  • Big mids

    Votes: 52 51.5%
  • Ruck division

    Votes: 1 1.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 11 10.9%

  • Total voters
    101

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Well as a matter of fact I'm not. I'm actually a data analyst and you're patronising load of crap you wrote doesn't address the issue I rose at all.
I do understand having a starting position but the fact is the way he works because there is a time constraint, it appears the idea is he holds firm on his position until timewise he either gets his way or the deal falls over. Nobody knows what happens behind the scenes but you don't see Essendon completing too many deals early so I don't see too much evidence of negotiation on offer.
 
Well as a matter of fact I'm not. I'm actually a data analyst and you're patronising load of crap you wrote doesn't address the issue I rose at all.
I do understand having a starting position but the fact is the way he works because there is a time constraint, it appears the idea is he holds firm on his position until timewise he either gets his way or the deal falls over. Nobody knows what happens behind the scenes but you don't see Essendon completing too many deals early so I don't see too much evidence of negotiation on offer.
if you are in fact a data analyst then perhaps you can go back and let us know which (completed) deals we have gotten wrong then? Shiel was a bit of a balls up and we got played but any others?
 
if you are in fact a data analyst then perhaps you can go back and let us know which (completed) deals we have gotten wrong then? Shiel was a bit of a balls up and we got played but any others?
If you read back through this thread you will see I'm an advocate of win/win deals so I don't have interest in analysing who has won and who has lost in a deal.
If a trade has strengthened your list then you have "won" the trade independently of what the other team has achieved. There is nothing to be gained looking at a specific trade and trying to pronounce a winner and a loser.
 

Pretty sure generational talents have kicked more than 191 goals, and played more than 108 games, by the time they're 26 (will be 27 at the start of next year).

The guy had the tools, but he doesn't care enough to use them/be an elite 'generational' player. Reminds me of Motlop, Tippett, Bennell, De Goey, Boyd etc.

Petracca is a perfect example of someone having that ability, and then actually putting the hard yards in to attain elite footballing status. It doesn't matter how talented you are, if you don't put in, you'll never reach the 'peak' of your ability.

Daniher hasn't even gotten close, and won't be remembered amongst the greats - can almost guarantee that.
 
The guy had the tools, but he doesn't care enough to use them/be an elite 'generational' player.
I think that's the crux of it. Generational talent, I think one poster described him as a unicorn given his athletic profile and so forth, but not a generational footballer or anything like the superstar we might have hoped for, at least not at this stage. Who knows what he becomes if Fages can get the best out of him at Brisbane.
 
I think that's the crux of it. Generational talent, I think one poster described him as a unicorn given his athletic profile and so forth, but not a generational footballer or anything like the superstar we might have hoped for, at least not at this stage. Who knows what he becomes if Fages can get the best out of him at Brisbane.
I think its difficult to judge one way or the other, because if you can't get him on the park and hasn't had enough consistent games, nobody knows if he's the second coming of Wayne Carey or Shaun McKernan.
 
Well as a matter of fact I'm not. I'm actually a data analyst and you're patronising load of crap you wrote doesn't address the issue I rose at all.
I do understand having a starting position but the fact is the way he works because there is a time constraint, it appears the idea is he holds firm on his position until timewise he either gets his way or the deal falls over. Nobody knows what happens behind the scenes but you don't see Essendon completing too many deals early so I don't see too much evidence of negotiation on offer.
What crap.

Essendon complete more deals than most.

I suggest some research on previous trade periods could be useful here as this supports the view he gets many deals done.
 
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I think its difficult to judge one way or the other, because if you can't get him on the park and hasn't had enough consistent games, nobody knows if he's the second coming of Wayne Carey or Shaun McKernan.
Shaun McKernan, lol. 87 games in 11 years and delisted after 33 in 5.

I think the 93 games he played unhampered by injury was enough to demonstrate to those watching.

He was kicking a goal a game in his second year, only goalless a couple of times as an ungainly giraffe with poor timing with his hangers (that's 2014). 2015 he was goalless a few times but managed to kick a bag twice that year and was on the board the majority of the time. Still looked like an ungainly giraffe. Started to come into his own in 2016, but that was the year our senior players were banned and our team was basically kids and state league players. He averaged about 2 goals a game that year and had his timing right to really start taking hangers.

2017 was the breakout year when everything started to click on a team level, the forward line had good supply from senior players that had returned, and he averaged 3 goals a game, kicked 65 for the year, got his AA jacket, won our BnF, took home mark of the year and a couple of other bits – we hadn't had a forward do that since Lloyd. And better than Lloyd in terms of his marking, his agility, and his ability to cover ground, and the full 200cm as well. Lloyd was far, far more accurate though hahaha.

That's 93 games, he only missed two after his debut year, and you can see steady progress through it until he was consistent and evidently one of the best forwards in the league by objective measures.

Idk what happened over that summer but by about the 3rd game of 2018 he was clearly hampered by injury, anyone with eyes could see it. He played 7 games, basically crawled to his 100 milestone, and that was it, out for the season. He then played 4 at the start of 2019 and four more at the end of 2020 and that's been it, for a total of 108 games.

Those last four games that he played this year showed that the injury hasn't taken his agility, his leap, or his ability to get up the wings and impact games. He can still kick three goals in a game, so the major question mark isn't whether he still has those skills and attributes. There aren't many defenders going around that can stop him with those attributes.

The big question is whether he has overcome that injury permanently and is able to get on the park consistently. If he can do that in a team with good supply to the forward line, he'll repeat his 2017 again probably a couple of times over. Teams like Sydney and Brisbane who believe in their medical department know it, which is why the contracts they've allegedly offered are heavily performance based. If he can't overcome the injury it'll be just one more of those woulda/coulda/shoulda been stories..
 

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Shaun McKernan, lol. 87 games in 11 years and delisted after 33 in 5.

I think the 93 games he played unhampered by injury was enough to demonstrate to those watching.

He was kicking a goal a game in his second year, only goalless a couple of times as an ungainly giraffe with poor timing with his hangers (that's 2014). 2015 he was goalless a few times but managed to kick a bag twice that year and was on the board the majority of the time. Still looked like an ungainly giraffe. Started to come into his own in 2016, but that was the year our senior players were banned and our team was basically kids and state league players. He averaged about 2 goals a game that year and had his timing right to really start taking hangers.

2017 was the breakout year when everything started to click on a team level, the forward line had good supply from senior players that had returned, and he averaged 3 goals a game, kicked 65 for the year, got his AA jacket, won our BnF, took home mark of the year and a couple of other bits – we hadn't had a forward do that since Lloyd. And better than Lloyd in terms of his marking, his agility, and his ability to cover ground, and the full 200cm as well. Lloyd was far, far more accurate though hahaha.

That's 93 games, he only missed two after his debut year, and you can see steady progress through it until he was consistent and evidently one of the best forwards in the league by objective measures.

Idk what happened over that summer but by about the 3rd game of 2018 he was clearly hampered by injury, anyone with eyes could see it. He played 7 games, basically crawled to his 100 milestone, and that was it, out for the season. He then played 4 at the start of 2019 and four more at the end of 2020 and that's been it, for a total of 108 games.

Those last four games that he played this year showed that the injury hasn't taken his agility, his leap, or his ability to get up the wings and impact games. He can still kick three goals in a game, so the major question mark isn't whether he still has those skills and attributes. There aren't many defenders going around that can stop him with those attributes.

The big question is whether he has overcome that injury permanently and is able to get on the park consistently. If he can do that in a team with good supply to the forward line, he'll repeat his 2017 again probably a couple of times over. Teams like Sydney and Brisbane who believe in their medical department know it, which is why the contracts they've allegedly offered are heavily performance based. If he can't overcome the injury it'll be just one more of those woulda/coulda/shoulda been stories..
Understand you have emotional investment with Daniher, however I think there needs to be context. Firstly I think Daniher is a good player and my Carey to McKernan crack was just to show the whole spectrum. I personally think that due to his injuries he's similar to Brad Crouch in terms of worth. He is not worth 2 first round picks and in my opinion its debatable he's worth one first round pick.
So as you said there he showed development up to 2017 getting better each year.
He is AA that year and kicks 65 and wins your BnF. Now here's the context. This is his best year. 1. He still finishes 4th in the Coleman Medal one fewer than Ben Brown who is touted to be traded as a 2nd Round pick (without Daniher's injuries) 2. Cale Hooker kicks 41 that year so Daniher is a 21 goal better forward than Hooker and I don't watch Essendon every week but I'm thinking Hooker spent some time back that year. Since then he's been injured.
So how good is he really?
 
Understand you have emotional investment with Daniher, however I think there needs to be context. Firstly I think Daniher is a good player and my Carey to McKernan crack was just to show the whole spectrum. I personally think that due to his injuries he's similar to Brad Crouch in terms of worth. He is not worth 2 first round picks and in my opinion its debatable he's worth one first round pick.
So as you said there he showed development up to 2017 getting better each year.
He is AA that year and kicks 65 and wins your BnF. Now here's the context. This is his best year. 1. He still finishes 4th in the Coleman Medal one fewer than Ben Brown who is touted to be traded as a 2nd Round pick (without Daniher's injuries) 2. Cale Hooker kicks 41 that year so Daniher is a 21 goal better forward than Hooker and I don't watch Essendon every week but I'm thinking Hooker spent some time back that year. Since then he's been injured.
So how good is he really?
I'm not the one saying two first round picks, so I'm not going to be the one to defend it either. I'm also not inclined to buy into comparisons with Brad Crouch and Ben Brown. Those sorts of discussions sound like a great way to waste 3 hours and get nowhere in particular.

I would say one first rounder probably towards the end of the first round would be about the price if it's a single pick exchange, but neither club would be particularly happy about it. A more ideal scenario as I've mentioned elsewhere is if Essendon can help Brisbane get in a position to offer a Band 1 contract, through taking on a salary dump for example. In that case I think both clubs improve their positions, which as you said is a better goal than a win/loss scenario.
 
I'm not the one saying two first round picks, so I'm not going to be the one to defend it either. I'm also not inclined to buy into comparisons with Brad Crouch and Ben Brown . Those sorts of discussions sound like a great way to waste 3 hours and get nowhere in particular.
Actually you're probably right there and while I don't have a view other than to say that there is a general over rating of players that play for the club you support and I'm as guilty of that as anyone.
 
God this bloke could really derail the trade period ......I’m fearful just how long it’s gunna take the Bombers to work through JUST THE INS let alone the outs !!
the flow on effect is going to effect the rest of the comp imo
 
Where is the source for this convenient piece of info from 'more educated' Essendon supporters about Richardson over-ruling him? As I've said discussing with you previously, not taking 9 + 3 (which Dodoro is on record confirming was offered) was a bad piece of business then and looks even worse now. He won't even get that for both Daniher and Saad combined now.
Its been said quite a bit by insiders on the EFC forum/sites. It is also worth noting that the inside talk is that Dodoro wanted to walk away from the Shiel trade, but got over-ridden by Campbell.

Dodoro's track record is also no where near as good as you think it is. On top of that, he is very well known for dragging trades out longer than they need to be and demanding more than he would offer if the shoe was on the other foot. The recent report relating to what he asked of Carlton for instance is laughable if it's to be believed.

How is the Shiel deal in Essendon's favour? Looks an outright stinker given Shiel's impact thus far. Paid A+ rates for a player that has been B grade.

Smith started well, but his degenerative knee looks like it will cruel him. Perhaps hard to be critical of Dodoro here, but it was a known issue.
Saad was a great value trade, huge tick. Stringer seemed like unders at the time but based on output looks either even or overs now.

Hibberd was traded under contract and went on to be AA. Melbourne way ahead on that trade.

Ryder also went on to be AA after being traded. No way that trade was in Essendon's favour.

St. Kilda have clearly won the Carlisle trade.

Shall I continue?
So, um, why did you believe it? Because again, the inside word is that we haven't yet asked anything of Carlton.

On the other recent trades:
  • 2019 Daniher: Yes, it got dragged out. Differing rumours on that, as some say Sydney did it deliberately as they didn't want to trade Papley and wanted to wait this year for FA, some saying Dodoro wouldn't commit as over-ridden internally on what we required back. In hindsight a disaster for us, but hard to say whose fault.
  • 2019 Phillips: easy smooth trade.
  • 2019 Cutler: easy smooth trade.
  • 2019: helped with the Kelly trade via draft pick swaps
  • 2019: traded with North Melbourne, Geelong and West Coast in pick deals on draft night.
  • 2019 Brown and Hartley: let go to go to other clubs with no attempt to get anything back.
  • 2018 Shiel: Yes it got dragged out, partly as GWS deliberately did other trades to free up cap space. In the end the inside word is Dodoro wanted to walk away. Paid a high but not unreasonable price for a player of that quality.
  • 2018 Colyer: easy smooth trade.
  • 2017 Stringer: got dragged out, but EFC fans very happy with the deal and what we got.
  • 2017 Saad: done quickly. EFC fans happy with the deal.
  • 2017 Smith: done quickly. Everyone happy with the deal.
  • 2016 Stewart: easy smooth trade.
  • 2016 Hibberd: easy smooth trade.
  • 2015 Melksham: easy smooth trade.
  • 2015 Giles (out): easy smooth trade.
  • 2015 Carlisle: took a little while, but everyone at the time was happy with the outcome. My memory was it was Dodoro who got Sydney involved, not St Kilda.
  • 2014 Ryder: we got absolutely shafted, which is why it took so long. I challenge anyone could have done better with the hand we were played.
  • 2014 Giles (in): easy smooth trade.
  • 2014 Cooney: easy smooth trade.
  • 2013 Crameri: a lot of bluster, but got done. EFC would feel pretty hard done by that deal, but the saga meant we had a dud hand.
  • 2013 Edwards & Aylett: easy smooth trade.
  • 2011 Jenkins: despite being pretty done over due to the players desire, the trade went pretty smooth
Looking at that, most trades are pretty easily done, with a few having sticking points. We've generally done reasonably from the trades, with a few Saga trades having pretty terrible value. The most longest drawn out ones appear to be the two where Dodoro was effectively over-ruled; these also happen to be the worst recent trades (or non-trades) for us. So maybe our admin should leave Dodoro the hell alone.

Yeah but what people are saying both teams can win. Take the Paddy Ryder trade - Essendon to Port. I'm sure nobody at Port regrets getting Paddy for Pick 17 & 37 and most of us at the time were not keen on giving 2 picks. Now if Essendon had picked Jack Steele and Caleb Daniel instead of Kyle Langford and Adam Cooney you would now be taunting us how you won the trade. But as far as I'm concerned it would be a win/win
I'd just point out that of bloody course you wouldn't mind getting Ryder for what you did. He was a steal for you. A player who was our full time ruck, was contracted for two more years, and you got him for a late first and second in a weak draft? When GWS was offering a top 10 pick at least?

I'd also point out that Steele had been taken by our pick, he was bid on earlier than his list spot and the place he's shown as "drafted" in the 2014 draft is actually the pick used to match the bid. You do seem to be under-rating Langford as well...
Don't you think that when a player decides he wants to move on and then Dodoro puts an unrealistic trade price on his head, that there will be resentment felt by the player because the move didn't happen. This resentment manifests itself in a poor culture and then lack of success. Stuff like the lack of farewell for Bellchambers is just the icing on the cake. Now if it happens once people get over it (Ryan O'Keefe as an example) but when its systemic behaviour the players must get pissed off. I know if I decided to move job whether for pay or lifestyle and was prevented I'd go apeshit mental.
Outside of Daniher, where Dodoro got over-ruled, which player hasn't moved? Every other player who has wanted to leave has gone to the club of their choice. Where is this evidence of Dodoro demanding far more than players are worth and trades falling over?
 
Its been said quite a bit by insiders on the EFC forum/sites. It is also worth noting that the inside talk is that Dodoro wanted to walk away from the Shiel trade, but got over-ridden by Campbell.

Right. So it's only Essendon supporters who are conveniently IMO letting Dodoro off the hook on multiple occasions and no actual sources? Forgive me, but Essendon fans do not have a great track record of recent times with things like this. The 'Stand by Hird' nonsense was an absolute farce and there are still some who are drinking that Kool Aid.

I'm not trying to be combative, but I recently has a similar conversation in the Clayton Oliver thread about how much credence I give ITK posters or 'inside word' - it is bugger all. It's a way for people to try and claim some sort of validity or believability without any real basis IMO. Doesn't wash with me.

Why is Dodoro constantly allowed to be over-ruled by these people? I get there is hierarchy and approvals sought on large decisions, but why even have him in that position if he is constantly undermined or puppet stringed? Ross Lyon would say "let the bakers bake". You and other Essendon supporters are happy to give him all his 'wins' but as soon as something could rightfully be criticised it's someone else's fault? Doesn't add up.

So, um, why did you believe it? Because again, the inside word is that we haven't yet asked anything of Carlton.

I didn't say I did believe it, but it's a media source unlike all these supposed 'inside word' sources and hearsay you are -presenting. Why do you believe them? Got any empirical evidence of these sources track records for being correct?

Looking at that, most trades are pretty easily done, with a few having sticking points. We've generally done reasonably from the trades, with a few Saga trades having pretty terrible value. The most longest drawn out ones appear to be the two where Dodoro was effectively over-ruled; these also happen to be the worst recent trades (or non-trades) for us. So maybe our admin should leave Dodoro the hell alone.

Dodoro's reputation is a reputation for a reason IMO. Of that list, that I'm sure took you some time to do (and I can't say I agree with it all) you will note that a lot of the supposed smooth ones were role players / fringe players. Anytime it is someone above that level, he is reported to have made ridiculous demands, over-rates his own players, does the reverse for opposition players and digs his heels in. Why does that narrative keep popping up? Smoke and fire and all that.

You don't have to like it, but that's what is reported in the media and I'm certainly taking it over 'inside sources' that you claim are over-ruling him anytime he is seen to make a mistake in hindsight. I think it's highly convenient that you and/or these inside sources just let him off the hook every time something bad happens or a poor outcome is achieved.

In your breakdown, you are also always passing the buck or shifting blame. GWS did this, St. Kilda were stubborn, the saga (which your club is completely at fault for) hurt us here. So many excuses but I think it's obvious to those unbiased what the common denominator is.

Teflon Dodoro.
 
Pretty over the petty comments from the majority of posters on this board.

Uneducated idiots trying t garner a cheap like. Petty and adding nothing but a like for there ego is possibly the lowest of lows.

Sure, we haven't won a final for 16 years but the talent he has brought through the door has been decent enough, it's as much to do with our poor development as it is our drafting and trading. He has made mistakes but let's not allow facts to get in the way of a good story of why he has asked/done what he has done here.
You call the majority of posts as petty and the posters as idiots

Hmmm, maybe look in the Mirror mate
 
Huh - sounds like Essendon supporters think most of the bad trades somehow weren't Dodoro's fault, only the good ones were.

I think that's letting him off pretty lightly.

You would have to think that any reasonably competent list manager could get a team to the point they win a final once every 15 years, wouldn't you?
 
Its been said quite a bit by insiders on the EFC forum/sites. It is also worth noting that the inside talk is that Dodoro wanted to walk away from the Shiel trade, but got over-ridden by Campbell.


So, um, why did you believe it? Because again, the inside word is that we haven't yet asked anything of Carlton.

On the other recent trades:
  • 2019 Daniher: Yes, it got dragged out. Differing rumours on that, as some say Sydney did it deliberately as they didn't want to trade Papley and wanted to wait this year for FA, some saying Dodoro wouldn't commit as over-ridden internally on what we required back. In hindsight a disaster for us, but hard to say whose fault.
  • 2019 Phillips: easy smooth trade.
  • 2019 Cutler: easy smooth trade.
  • 2019: helped with the Kelly trade via draft pick swaps
  • 2019: traded with North Melbourne, Geelong and West Coast in pick deals on draft night.
  • 2019 Brown and Hartley: let go to go to other clubs with no attempt to get anything back.
  • 2018 Shiel: Yes it got dragged out, partly as GWS deliberately did other trades to free up cap space. In the end the inside word is Dodoro wanted to walk away. Paid a high but not unreasonable price for a player of that quality.
  • 2018 Colyer: easy smooth trade.
  • 2017 Stringer: got dragged out, but EFC fans very happy with the deal and what we got.
  • 2017 Saad: done quickly. EFC fans happy with the deal.
  • 2017 Smith: done quickly. Everyone happy with the deal.
  • 2016 Stewart: easy smooth trade.
  • 2016 Hibberd: easy smooth trade.
  • 2015 Melksham: easy smooth trade.
  • 2015 Giles (out): easy smooth trade.
  • 2015 Carlisle: took a little while, but everyone at the time was happy with the outcome. My memory was it was Dodoro who got Sydney involved, not St Kilda.
  • 2014 Ryder: we got absolutely shafted, which is why it took so long. I challenge anyone could have done better with the hand we were played.
  • 2014 Giles (in): easy smooth trade.
  • 2014 Cooney: easy smooth trade.
  • 2013 Crameri: a lot of bluster, but got done. EFC would feel pretty hard done by that deal, but the saga meant we had a dud hand.
  • 2013 Edwards & Aylett: easy smooth trade.
  • 2011 Jenkins: despite being pretty done over due to the players desire, the trade went pretty smooth
Confirmation bias here?
These are all the trades that got done.
Where is the list of all negotiations that Essendon were apart of that nothing came of?
 
regardless of whether his deals well or poorly. He has failed to deliver players that can help Essendon win a flag through trading and drafting. He should be the first 1 out the door at the end of the year despite what he brings in this trade & draft period.
 
regardless of whether his deals well or poorly. He has failed to deliver players that can help Essendon win a flag through trading and drafting. He should be the first 1 out the door at the end of the year despite what he brings in this trade & draft period.

Drafting and trading is one variable in oh so many to being able to win a final. I don't think he's been the major issue.

He's been solid without being outstanding. He's got some really quality through the door recently and managed his way out of the saga pretty well I would've thought.

I'd say the saga has far more to do with us not winning a final than Dodos recruiting.

Devon Smith won a B+F
Saad multiple top 3 finishes
Stringer severely under rated how he's performed ina poor side by outsiders
M.Hibberd AA from a PSD pick was it
Fantasia with pick 50s to avg 1.5 goals a game over 4 years before CV
Langford coming good
Parish coming good
Zac Merrett pick 26
Dyson Heppell
Sam Draper a very promising ruck for nothing
Ridley pick 22-24
Tipungwuti late pick

Francis hasn't reached expectations but I feel he will
Laverde not been great
Shiel over paid
Redman looks ok but nothing great
Mcgrath fine the Taranto/Mcluggage debate continues. I think he found ground this year on both

Heavy amount of injury prone players, ongoing saga affecting morale, salaries have been the major issues along with players wanting out too often.

Really if we kept all of Mckenna, Saad, Daniher, Fantasia and all got fit the age bracket of the list in 2-3 years time was coming into the premiership window.

Could've been a jump like Dogs, Richmond, Port, Brisbane.

It's disappointing the players can't see that but I think Rutten hasn't won them over and maybe poor injury rehab/management has meant many need to go elsewhere
 

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